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Cardiovorax posted:Just finished Use of Weapons. I already found Player of Games pretty harsh in the emotional impact, but this is something else. I don't think I've ever felt this awful over a book before. Yeah, when I hit certain points in the book of which I'm sure you know what I mean I had to put it down, I felt like I'd been physically punched in the gut.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:05
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I guessed the twist halfway into the book, convinced myself nahhhh that's not it, and then was surprised again when it happened.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:55
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Krinkle posted:I guessed the twist halfway into the book, convinced myself nahhhh that's not it, and then was surprised again when it happened. I usually try not to guess twists (because I'm so bad at it) so I was pretty floored by the end of it. Also, that chair  I also had to consult a few websites because I was still pretty confused about the timeline 
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Aug 15, 2012 01:38
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Use of Weapons was the first book I read, I'm not sure any of the others ever had the same impact as that ending. I am eagerly awaiting The Hydrogen Sonata, because I've been looking forward to a Culture book dealing with the Sublimed for a long time. Though I hope one day Banks might be able to re-visit the universe he established for The Algebraist. I did quite like the somewhat more restrictive rule-set (no non-wormhole FTL travel, AIs are hunted & not omnipotents like the Culture Minds, galactic society in the Mercatoria is a massively multi-layered semi-feudalism, not a post-scarcity utopia, etc).
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Aug 16, 2012 05:07
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I'm reading Inversions and I've reached chapter twelve. I get that the doctor and the bodyguard are serving different kings but I'm having trouble keeping them separate in my head. Can someone give me a quick bullet points list of the differences between the two of them?
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Aug 22, 2012 01:47
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Jesse Iceberg posted:Though I hope one day Banks might be able to re-visit the universe he established for The Algebraist. I did quite like the somewhat more restrictive rule-set (no non-wormhole FTL travel, AIs are hunted & not omnipotents like the Culture Minds, galactic society in the Mercatoria is a massively multi-layered semi-feudalism, not a post-scarcity utopia, etc). I really liked The Algebraist, and I choose to believe that it is set in the Culture universe, but in a region of space that just happens not to have been contacted by any of the Involved just yet. The Dweller's wormholes would probably have been spotted, but given panhumanity there's no reason it couldn't even be another galaxy. Fake edit: Unfortunately while writing this post I noticed that it specifically refers to Earth as being the home planet of the humans in the book, so I guess they can't be the same universe.
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Aug 22, 2012 03:31
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big scary monsters posted:Fake edit: Unfortunately while writing this post I noticed that it specifically refers to Earth as being the home planet of the humans in the book, so I guess they can't be the same universe. They could just be humans from Earth, which still hasn't been contacted, couldn't they?
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Aug 22, 2012 05:38
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big scary monsters posted:I really liked The Algebraist, and I choose to believe that it is set in the Culture universe, but in a region of space that just happens not to have been contacted by any of the Involved just yet. The Dweller's wormholes would probably have been spotted, but given panhumanity there's no reason it couldn't even be another galaxy. Pretty sure the empire in Algebraist is pan galactic, while the main setting is cut off due to being in the middle of nowhere with no wormhole. Also, the Dwellers are pan-galactic too, so they're not in the same universe.
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Aug 22, 2012 07:43
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Pope Guilty posted:They could just be humans from Earth, which still hasn't been contacted, couldn't they? Earth is contacted by the culture per the appendix to consider phlebas IIRC
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Aug 22, 2012 12:06
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Earth contact is also put in the short novel The State of the Art.
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Aug 22, 2012 12:44
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Flipswitch posted:Earth contact is also put in the short novel The State of the Art. That's not contact, more discovery and study. Ultimately the decision is made to leave Earth how it is for an unspecified amount of time.
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Aug 22, 2012 14:45
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:That's not contact, more discovery and study. Ultimately the decision is made to leave Earth how it is for an unspecified amount of time. Bastards! 
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Aug 22, 2012 14:59
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:That's not contact, more discovery and study. Ultimately the decision is made to leave Earth how it is for an unspecified amount of time. 
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Aug 22, 2012 15:32
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I really wonder how that State of the Art story would have read like if it had been set like 35 years earlier.
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Aug 22, 2012 15:39
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The best part of that story is the bit that's quoted on its wiki page.Diziet Sma posted:Also while I'd been away, the ship had sent a request on a postcard to the BBC's World Service, asking for 'Mr David Bowie's "Space Oddity" for the good ship Arbitrary and all who sail in her.' (This from a machine that could have swamped Earth's entire electro-magnetic spectrum with whatever the hell it wanted from somewhere beyond Betelgeuse.) It didn't get the request played. The ship thought this was hilarious.
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Aug 22, 2012 15:44
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I saw Iain (M) Banks at the Edinburgh Book Festival tonight; he was absolutely brilliant. Ken Macleod was asking him questions and Iain Banks would just explode with very funny stories, complete tangents and generally warble in bloody entertaining ways. He was there to talk about Stonemouth, his new fiction novel, but that chat got discarded about ten seconds in and Iain Banks just generally talked about whatever he liked, from a very funny story about how they trapped some Mormons into having a deep chat on the sofa to how his uncles disapproved of the lack of an M on the Wasp Factory. He was surprisingly frank when discussing his novels; talking about how Transition had become vastly more sci-fi than his editors had expected (or wanted!), how he was least fond of Canal Dreams and that Consider Phlebas would make a great film because he was trying to out-do George Lucas and Star Wars, so he just chucked every cool idea in he liked. Also that he doesn't really like doing research for his novels and just makes stuff up, so he's very happy whenever someone thinks it's far too realistic not to be based on someone or something litigious. Also that he took copious amounts of drugs a while back, but that was only research for writing books and that he was trying to get the VAT back on his purchases. He described the Hydrogen Sonata briefly (there are flying suitcases aka drones, people making sarcastic remarks, improbably named ships and lots of characters with stupid names) and said it was a Culture Novel, and that he knew this because it said so on the cover. We went to the signing after and got a copy of Stonemouth signed, also asked him if anyone exploded in it (apparently not, he said I should take it back and get a refund). Overall seemed like a great fun guy and probably someone you'd love to go to the pub with.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:41
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:The best part of that story is the bit that's quoted on its wiki page. The Arbitrary is by far my favourite Culture ship. quote:It complained about being restricted to one word, then pretended to think for a long time, and finally came up with 'gullible'. Didn't the appendicies of Consider Phlebas clarify Earth was Contacted about 2150? Or was that an interview or am I making it all up. I do remember that the Consider Phlebas appendicies were supposedly extracts of an Idiran War summary written for post-contact Earth humanity, in English. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 06:10
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The Supreme Court posted:We went to the signing after and got a copy of Stonemouth signed, also asked him if anyone exploded in it (apparently not, he said I should take it back and get a refund). Overall seemed like a great fun guy and probably someone you'd love to go to the pub with. This is actually the first I've heard of the new book and I'm a bit disappointed. He seems to be in a bit of rut with plots - isn't this the 3rd book after Crow Road and Steep Approach to Garbadale to focus on the same plot conceit?
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Aug 24, 2012 14:24
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shrike82 posted:This is actually the first I've heard of the new book and I'm a bit disappointed. He seems to be in a bit of rut with plots - isn't this the 3rd book after Crow Road and Steep Approach to Garbadale to focus on the same plot conceit? 'Dark Family Secret' has been his go-to plot structure for the M-less books since the very beginning.
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Aug 24, 2012 15:00
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It's to my eternal shame I live maybe 20 minutes from Iain Banks & I've never been able to get to one of his speaking engagements.
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Aug 24, 2012 22:58
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I just finished The Hydrogen Sonata due to the magic of advance proof copies, and it's really great. My favourite since Excession.
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Aug 25, 2012 12:17
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xiw posted:I just finished The Hydrogen Sonata due to the magic of advance proof copies, and it's really great. My favourite since Excession.
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Aug 25, 2012 12:31
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xiw posted:I just finished The Hydrogen Sonata due to the magic of advance proof copies, and it's really great. My favourite since Excession. ¬¬ When was the release date, again?
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Aug 25, 2012 20:46
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9 Oct in the US - so not far off!
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Aug 25, 2012 21:53
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xiw posted:9 Oct in the US - so not far off! Just far enough 
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Aug 28, 2012 08:44
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Just finished Surface Detail. The ending did not go where I thought it would go at all. I thought a few things were so foreshadowed and I was wrong. I thought for sure 1) lededje was going to be completely betrayed by Moral Constraints, back as Veppers' property. 2) Veppers would regret offloading the NR hell when NR, still pissed at him, abducts him and uploads him. Lededje gets some kind of bittersweet ending. 3) Southern Centaur Lawyer also ends up in hell, somehow 4) Prin saves his wife but she ends up in a virtual convalescent home, catatonic. he holds her hoof like a coma wife every sunday and asks her to come back to him but she won't accept hell let her go. Also I didn't expect the cameo of chairmaker zakalwe. I'm not sure even the point of the character before that revelation. We're told several times he's a traitor but all the fuckups seemed pretty natural and accidental. I guess that's the point of sabotage, though.. Outside The Normal Moral Constraints was the best character. It was just so enjoyable reading this designed-to-be-a-bastard ship do his thing, giving no fucks. It's infectious, his unabashed glee in every situation. e: I didn't mean to imply I felt he ended it wrong, just that I so completely misjudged where the plot threads would end. I enjoyed the book very much. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 12:09
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I finally finished the Algebraist, and I actually enjoyed it, though not as much as the culture novels. It was amusing how Luseferous just cut his losses and left at the end. A lot of the plot events in this book seemed more chaotically realistic, compared to most fiction where things happen for emotional(storytelling) reasons rather than logical ones. If it was supposed to be some sort of deconstruction of space opera or something it was lost on me, but I still liked it. So, what non-culture Banks novel is the next-best after that one? I need another one to tide me over until October 9th. Question Time fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 18:48
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Both Feersum Endjinn and Against a Dark Background are pretty polarising - I liked them both, many people didn't. Outside of the SF, Whit is definitely a good read. I liked Song of Stone but again that's a pretty polarising one. Raw Spirit is a good read too.
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Sep 3, 2012 13:24
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After having finished all the books up to Matter now, I've got to say what I really like about the Culture novels is that Banks doesn't try to whitewash his vision, they aren't apologetic. I actually don't like the Culture as shown in the novels. Maybe it's because we only ever get to see it at its worst, but the novels make it clear to me that it isn't only a good thing, it's also a place filled with shallow idiots and hubristic machine gods who gently caress up in their overestimation of themselves as often as they don't. That's a lot better than other series with similar themes manage to do, like the Golden Age trilogy, which basically finishes on the note that everything that happens was predicted and manipulated by some superintelligence to lead to a happy end all along. For all the fancy sci-fi toys it actually feels like one of the more realistic future societies I've read about.
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Sep 9, 2012 00:26
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Cardiovorax posted:After having finished all the books up to Matter now, I've got to say what I really like about the Culture novels is that Banks doesn't try to whitewash his vision, they aren't apologetic. I actually don't like the Culture as shown in the novels. Maybe it's because we only ever get to see it at its worst, but the novels make it clear to me that it isn't only a good thing, it's also a place filled with shallow idiots and hubristic machine gods who gently caress up in their overestimation of themselves as often as they don't. That's a lot better than other series with similar themes manage to do, like the Golden Age trilogy, which basically finishes on the note that everything that happens was predicted and manipulated by some superintelligence to lead to a happy end all along. For all the fancy sci-fi toys it actually feels like one of the more realistic future societies I've read about. The Culture definitely has its flaws but I think Banks likes to write about them because writing about the 99.99% of the time where everything is peachy would be boring as all hell. Also, how the hell did you get that custom title?!
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Sep 9, 2012 01:56
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Moist von Lipwig posted:The Culture definitely has its flaws but I think Banks likes to write about them because writing about the 99.99% of the time where everything is peachy would be boring as all hell.  I guess there's also that. Still, I appreciate it anyway. It makes it feel less like some weird love poem to his own vision of a perfect future like some sci-fi novels end up doing. I always feel slightly embarrassed reading those.\/\/\/ It would be a pretty great place to live, I just like the way he doesn't pretend that all that awesomeness doesn't come at a cost or that the Culture is unequivocally right in everything they do. The dubiousness of some of the Culture's methods and goals is a pretty important plot point in Use Of Weapons, for example. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 02:07
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Cardiovorax posted:
Edit: you could make a decent case for culture ulterior or zetetic elench being ethically preferable to the culture I guess andrew smash fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 05:02
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At the risk of sounding reactionary, the Elench and ulterior only exist because the mainstream Culture are willing to get their hands dirty. It hasn't explicitly been dealt with in any of the novels, but that could easily be the basis of one.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:33
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I don't disagree with you, just noted that an argument to that effect could be made.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:39
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Lemmi Caution posted:At the risk of sounding reactionary, the Elench and ulterior only exist because the mainstream Culture are willing to get their hands dirty. It hasn't explicitly been dealt with in any of the novels, but that could easily be the basis of one. Actually, I think this was pretty explicit in the appendix to Consider Phlebas (I think?) which explained the Culture's motivations for the Idiran War. The Culture's justification for existing was the ethical meddling carried out via Contact (which couldn't *not* fight the Idirans). They had the power, so they had to use that power to stop the Idirans. The same appendix also says those that decided they didn't agree with that justification stopped identifying with the Culture and did their own thing. In Excession if I remember correctly, the Zetetic Elench decided that their excuse for existing was to explore the universe in all the ways the Culture couldn't be bothered with. Consequently the ZE aren't really more ethical; they stayed out of the war, but also left the Idirans to do their nasty stuff to the various races they subjugated (and presumably they'd take the same attitude to other villains like the Affront) even though they had the power to alter it. The importance of the SC agent being put in suspended animation until the deaths in the war were surpassed by the lives saved by the war isn't just a "war is traumatic" moment, it also establishes that the Contact Minds were proven right and just: eventually that condition was met. The Minds are awesomely powerful, so they have a moral responsibility to use that power for good. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
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Sep 9, 2012 06:23
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Yeah, horrifyingly terrible as it might turn out when things go wrong on occasion the alternative of simply doing nothing with the power they have while minor races get their asses handed over to them or witnessing the horrible treatment the lower classes get from the top of their safe and comfortable ivory GSVs like the ZE chose to do seems far worse from an ethical point of view. I bet the ZE spend half of their time wringing their hands and saying to whoever will listen to them "why can't we all just get along  ".Lesser of two evils and all that.
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Sep 9, 2012 16:31
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I didn't really mean to start an argument about the comparative ethical merits of the Culture vs. everyone else, I just thought it's neat how, despite making it out to be a pretty nice place to actually live, Banks doesn't deny that it's also a flawed place that's also filled with a lot of assholes. Many sci-fi authors don't trust you to make that kind of informed judgment on your own and prefer to beat you over the head with their "This is a good/bad thing! See how great/awful it is?!" message instead.
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Sep 9, 2012 17:16
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I think the point is that its a staggeringly large galactic meta-civ where every little whim or political urge can be satisfied without having the slightest effect on the on the whole. There are a billion offshoots. In Banks universe there is probably an entire orbital for people dedicated to living the life of 'weird old planet game called sonic the hedgehog' characters in full detail. And if that ain't actually done in real life its being done 10x more by people somewhere in VR. Remember the population count of people/AI's/drones/minds in the culture (not to mention all the other 'involveds') is measured in the trillions not 6 or 7 seven billion like our ikle world so anything is possible. We already have people pretending to be computer game characters here!
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Sep 10, 2012 12:29
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Cardiovorax posted:It would be a pretty great place to live, I just like the way he doesn't pretend that all that awesomeness doesn't come at a cost or that the Culture is unequivocally right in everything they do. The dubiousness of some of the Culture's methods and goals is a pretty important plot point in Use Of Weapons, for example. One issue in their "eventual net benefit" approach to things like the Idirian War is that it seems some races may pay a much larger price than the average, for instance the extinction of the changers mentioned in the appendix of Consider Phlebas, or the damage done to the Chel. It still strikes me as far more preferable to Star Trek's Prime Directive and other such moral stances taken by advanced civilisations towards less developed ones. Owlkill posted:I just finished Feersum Endjinn, wondered if anyone could shed some light about the ending?
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Sep 10, 2012 22:42
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:Ok this is from a while back but the answer is the solar system was moving away from the dust cloud. The Sun being the fearsome engine, was pretty clear to me, but what I didn't get from the end was who the guy at the top of the tower was. Was he some transhuman just waiting around in stasis for someone to show up? Is he some a construct like Asura, but with fewer constraints on seeming normal, and therefor not concerned with regular human food?
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Sep 11, 2012 02:29
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