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I thought this thread would be amused by a story from my little town in Oregon. A local businessman is opening a Tibetan restaurant, and had a gorgeous mural painted on the side of his building. Cue the Chinese consulate getting pissed and asking our mayor of to take it down. Pretty big news for a town of just over 50,000 people:quote:China asks city in Oregon to scrub mural for Tibetan, Taiwanese independence I went to go check out the mural today, and the owner of the restaurant was outside watering his plants. He told me that the painting was actually based on real photographs. I made sure to shake the guy's hand.
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Sep 13, 2012 13:16
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It's time for laowai governments, organizers, and in this case restaurant owners to start using the China line when these diplomats show up to hector them: "gross interference" in our "internal affairs," "hurting the feelings of .3 billion American people," free speech is a "core issue," etc.
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Sep 13, 2012 14:14
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GuestBob posted:So these are interesting times. Probably nothing major. Chinese navy is inferior right now. So the longer it waits, the better it is for China. But you can not avoid confrontation too much to be seen as coward from the internal pressure. Probably send a few ships over to circle it a few time to state the Chinese claim and maybe even touch the blumpers of the Japanese ships. You have no idea how many brickering threads I read on the Chinese forum I hang out. Calling CCP eunuchs; calling Japanese goods boycotters hypocrites; linking the disappearing of Xi to Diaoyu conspiracists. You name it. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Sep 13, 2012 |
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Sep 13, 2012 15:15
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:It's time for laowai governments, organizers, and in this case restaurant owners to start using the China line when these diplomats show up to hector them: "gross interference" in our "internal affairs," "hurting the feelings of .3 billion American people," free speech is a "core issue," etc. I wonder if people realize that there is something loss in translation when they say "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people". I read that line so often, but I keep thinking "Oh does China want it's Mom to kiss the boo boo and make it go away?" Do Chinese people probably think the same way when our leaders go off talking about "freedom"? I wonder.
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Sep 13, 2012 16:03
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I imagine it is related to losing face.
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Sep 13, 2012 16:10
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whatever7 posted:Probably nothing major. Chinese navy is inferior right now. So the longer it waits, the better it is for China. But you can not avoid confrontation too much to be seen as coward from the internal pressure. Probably send a few ships over to circle it a few time to state the Chinese claim and maybe even touch the blumpers of the Japanese ships. Which forum do you hang out at? I'm shopping for some Chinese-flavored time wasting.
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Sep 13, 2012 16:17
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Kaal posted:I went to go check out the mural today, and the owner of the restaurant was outside watering his plants. He told me that the painting was actually based on real photographs. I made sure to shake the guy's hand. It's like four blocks from my house. So glad we got the chance to Hurt the Feelings of the Chinese People.
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Sep 13, 2012 16:39
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:It's like four blocks from my house. So glad we got the chance to Hurt the Feelings of the Chinese People. Yeah, and I was really amused by the implication that somehow this mural will lead to serious ramifications to our economic relationship. As if China is going to impose a Corvallis-specific trade embargo. p.s. Sometimes I feel like half of Something Awful are secretly Oregoons.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:41
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Barto posted:Which forum do you hang out at? I'm shopping for some Chinese-flavored time wasting. 无忌交流论坛
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Sep 13, 2012 18:04
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Kaal posted:Yeah, and I was really amused by the implication that somehow this mural will lead to serious ramifications to our economic relationship. The Chinese government has been known to blacklist schools that, for example, invite the Dalai Lama to speak. The fact that this has nothing to do with OSU wouldn't stop them. The question nobody's been asking is how did they find about this in the first place? Some kind of internet data-mining software that looks for affronts to Chinese sovereignty? Or, more likely, some fuerdai shitbird at OSU? In that case, I say boycott away, I don't want snitches for the Chinese government in my community.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:20
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:The Chinese government has been known to blacklist schools that, for example, invite the Dalai Lama to speak. The fact that this has nothing to do with OSU wouldn't stop them. The question nobody's been asking is how did they find about this in the first place? Some kind of internet data-mining software that looks for affronts to Chinese sovereignty? Or, more likely, some fuerdai shitbird at OSU? In that case, I say boycott away, I don't want snitches for the Chinese government in my community. It's my understanding that China has cited Chinese ex-patriots as the source of the complaints. I'd expect that it would probably be one of the Chinese international students at OSU, or perhaps a engineer visiting Hewlett Packard. It'd be truly unfortunate if OSU were blacklisted by China, though given OSU's booming enrollment the only ones hurt would be prospective Chinese students.
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Sep 14, 2012 05:45
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Kaal posted:It's my understanding that China has cited Chinese ex-patriots as the source of the complaints. I'd expect that it would probably be one of the Chinese international students at OSU, or perhaps a engineer visiting Hewlett Packard. It'd be truly unfortunate if OSU were blacklisted by China, though given OSU's booming enrollment the only ones hurt would be prospective Chinese students. OSU students is what I heard. Supposedly they contacted the consulate in San Francisco, and poo poo rolled uphill from there. Going to see the mural tomorrow, I can try to grab pictures if anyone's curious.
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Sep 14, 2012 06:11
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whatever7 posted:Probably nothing major. Chinese navy is inferior right now. So the longer it waits, the better it is for China. But you can not avoid confrontation too much to be seen as coward from the internal pressure. Probably send a few ships over to circle it a few time to state the Chinese claim and maybe even touch the blumpers of the Japanese ships. Looks like you were right on target: NYTimes posted:On Friday, the Coast Guard identified two of the Chinese vessels as the Haijian 51 and Haijian 66, unarmed ships used for law enforcement in Chinese waters. It said the two ships entered Japanese-controlled waters near one of the islands early Friday morning, and left two hours later. Hopefully this problem remains manageable. I'm sure there are elements of the CCP (and PLA) who would love to exploit this issue to strengthen their position in the current political mess. From here. Mozi fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 14, 2012 |
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Sep 14, 2012 06:43
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Question: Is China going to go further down the road of liberal economics, or is going to stay within the relative area it is now which involves heavy government intervention and projects? In other words is it likely that in the not so distant future China will be practicing neo-liberal economics or will it continue on with its state captialist model?
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Sep 14, 2012 22:05
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From my understanding, the state-owned enterprises are a major source of power and influence in China's graft-and-influence-driven personal network politics. I think it would take another Deng Xiaoping to take them down, and we're not likely to see a figure of that stature in the near future with how the party has been operating in the last couple decades. That, or it would take someone with amazing political chops to sideline them and start shrinking their power. Maybe someone with the skill and panache to fake his own disappearance?  Barring an unusually strong and able leader who wants to get rid of them, I think the SOEs are here to stay for a long time, no matter what the head guy thinks. They're entrenched and they have powerful friends and patrons. As for government intervention such as building infrastructure and messing with the central bank, I don't see that going away for decades. You have to understand how huge and how poor China really is. They could build infrastructure for another 20 years and not be finished. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Sep 15, 2012 |
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Sep 15, 2012 03:22
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Well the disappearing act has apparently ended http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-09/15/c_131852049.htm Xinhua posted:BEIJING, Sept. 15 (Xinhua) -- Vice President Xi Jinping arrived at China Agricultural University Saturday morning for activities marking this year's National Science Popularization Day.
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Sep 15, 2012 05:43
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Cross-posting this article from the US Presidential Election thread: http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/mark-kitto-youll-never-be-chinese-leaving-china/ Subtitle: Why I'm leaving the country I loved. Personally, I was rolling my eyes. A lot. I can certainly believe that China has problems (this thread discusses a lot of them), but I have no idea what sort of magical gumdrop wonderland he was expecting it to turn into while he was there. With nearly every complaint he mentions I kept thinking to myself "where exactly are you going now that isn't going to have these exact same problems? The United States? Great Britain? Canada?" I honestly just don't understand how he gets off saying that China is screwed because the culture places too much emphasis on the acquistion of money when...seriously, do I even need to write it? For what it's worth, I find a lot of the same kind of naivete and clueluessness about current conditions in Western culture when I read expat takes on Korea. But I have no good perspective on China, so I'd like to know what you all think.
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Sep 15, 2012 05:56
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Some Guy TT posted:For what it's worth, I find a lot of the same kind of naivete and clueluessness about current conditions in Western culture when I read expat takes on Korea. But I have no good perspective on China, so I'd like to know what you all think. Yeah, I think you don't have a good perspective. Everybody who hears this stuff for the first time says "what, America isn't all about money and acquisition of material goods?" No, not compared to China it isn't. If you haven't spent time there you won't understand.
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Sep 15, 2012 07:14
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Some Guy TT posted:
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Sep 15, 2012 07:33
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There's also the matter of internalizing our own propoganda, like the melting pot. Immigrants had to fight tooth and nail for every right they have, and many of them die even today never having been considered "real Americans". It just strikes me as insultingly arrogant to go to a country that doesn't even have a history of this kind of inclusiveness and acting all butthurt because you're not "real Chinese" after sixteen years. Does anyone have any articles about modern consumerism in China and how it compares to the West? I'd be interested in reading about it if it's actually significantly worse, but the guy who wrote the artice I linked did a really bad job explaining what was so uniquely bad about it.
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Sep 15, 2012 08:16
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Well clearly the most obvious explanation for Xi's absence is that he has been replaced by a robot communist, or a commubot if you will. Other theories are really going too far out there.
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Sep 15, 2012 08:21
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Some Guy TT posted:There's also the matter of internalizing our own propoganda, like the melting pot. Immigrants had to fight tooth and nail for every right they have, and many of them die even today never having been considered "real Americans". It just strikes me as insultingly arrogant to go to a country that doesn't even have a history of this kind of inclusiveness and acting all butthurt because you're not "real Chinese" after sixteen years. Even in western nations like the U.S., U.K., or Canada it's more like a tossed salad. People may mingle a bit here and there but there's not really that much interracial crossover when you look at the way neighborhoods, workplaces, and cities are orientated in the U.S. The vast majority of peoples till reside in neighborhoods of _X_ ethnicity which is usually their own. You might have interracial marriages and such but the identity of the offspring is usually pushed towards the majority identity as well.
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Sep 15, 2012 08:28
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Ethnic nationalism is a different animal though, in my opinion (PhD, MDPhD, BS). I completely agree that we have varying degrees of pluralism back in the States, but over here in Asia most countries are just getting to the place we were when the Irish and Italians were considered some kind of upright walking gorillas.
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Sep 15, 2012 10:24
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Some Guy TT posted:Cross-posting this article from the US Presidential Election thread: That article has good discussion in the comment section. As far as Chinese focus too much on money. I have read a few similar comments like that. I think on the one hand, people are not seeing the government is doing a lot of things not motivated by profile (see the theater system as an example) all in the name of control and stablization. And secondly, the Chinese are not ready to embrace the traditional value (I would like to use the word confucianism but that word draw very negative reaction in China) because there are many landmine issues. "Making money" right now is kind of like the only issue both the various political fractions and the public can agree on.
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Sep 15, 2012 11:27
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That's an old blog and seems to fit the other China thread here more than this one, but I'll say the same thing I said to my friend. Very simply put, it is baffling to me how someone could live in China for 15+ years and take such a long time to realize that they're never going to be "one of them". I realized that after about a week or two of living in China. You don't have to "become Chinese" to have fun in China. There's a certain joy in showing people a different worldview/background that they might not get otherwise. And two people can be friends while still acknowledging that they have lots of differences. He whines that China is promoting nationalism. So -- go to China, learn the language, talk with people and show them how nice and friendly foreigners are. If all the foreigners leave China (or live in China without learning the language, are blatant womanizers, etc) then where else are Chinese people supposed to get their impressions? Blame the government not the people...
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Sep 15, 2012 13:05
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hitension posted:That's an old blog and seems to fit the other China thread here more than this one, but I'll say the same thing I said to my friend. I think what happened is that after so many years he finally seriously considered living there and raising a family there full time. Like that is his now his home country. Probably didn't think about it too much before then or didn't notice it as much. What he says does have some truth to it. America, despite our ingrained racism is much more open to welcoming outsiders to be a "true" member of the country than many other countries. China, and actually Japan and Korea will never accept a foreigner no matter how many years they live there or probably even their kids, despite being born there.
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Sep 15, 2012 17:09
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Jesus, anyone else following this anti-Japanese stuff on weibo? Major riots in Qingdao, Xian and Changsha today by the looks of it. Cars blown up, shops destroyed and looted and riot police out en masse...
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Sep 15, 2012 17:12
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Magna Kaser posted:Jesus, anyone else following this anti-Japanese stuff on weibo? Major riots in Qingdao, Xian and Changsha today by the looks of it. Cars blown up, shops destroyed and looted and riot police out en masse... Imagine if some idiot posted a rabidly anti Chinese video with poor production values onto Youtube?
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Sep 15, 2012 17:23
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Full five minute hate. Really wild. (and terrifying) Also trolling the West "Now this is controlled dissent" Protestors get to fight cops and that social drama plays out, China gets to have riots that don't kill anyone ("Honk if you Respect Embassy Rights"), and they polarize their people against external opponents.
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Sep 15, 2012 17:30
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This is only getting started, what do we have like 2 months until the government changes over? The government needs to make sure everyone briefly forgets about any real issues and channels their hate towards something other than their own government so the changes go smoothly. The predictability of it all would be funny if it wasn't so sad that people actually fall for this poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2012 17:55
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The SituAsian posted:Well the disappearing act has apparently ended So what happened to him? Did he get kidnapped and then return? No explanation as to why he missed all those meetings and disappeared from public view.
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Sep 15, 2012 17:59
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Arakan posted:This is only getting started, what do we have like 2 months until the government changes over? The government needs to make sure everyone briefly forgets about any real issues and channels their hate towards something other than their own government so the changes go smoothly. The predictability of it all would be funny if it wasn't so sad that people actually fall for this poo poo. Ah yes, obviously the government was behind it all, no one has their own views on the subject at all. No one *actually* hates Japan. What you are seeing is a managed letting off of steam. Don't let them protest and it'll explode beyond control. Manage the protest and it stays within reason. Vladimir Putin posted:So what happened to him? Did he get kidnapped and then return? No explanation as to why he missed all those meetings and disappeared from public view. Oddly enough, there is absolutely zero reason to give any more explanation than has already been given. Anything they say will immediately be spun as lies and interpreted to mean it was far worse. As such, the best play is to not dignify the idiotic rumors with a response at all. Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 15, 2012 |
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Sep 15, 2012 18:01
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:
He missed his meeting with Clinton and a PM from Denmark and disappeared for god knows how long. You don't think the people deserve an explanation?
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Sep 15, 2012 18:07
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Vladimir Putin posted:He missed his meeting with Clinton and a PM from Denmark and disappeared for god knows how long. You don't think the people deserve an explanation? Back injury was reported way back on the 4th by US officials. And no, I don't think the people deserve instant access to vitals, especially when all it lead to is MORE speculation, which is what happens every damned time.
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Sep 15, 2012 18:28
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Christ, it looks like that Changsha store burning happened on Jiefang Road. It's one of the busiest roads in the city, I must have gone past that place a dozen times at least last year. Between Vile Rat and riots on a familiar street the news has been too close for comfort recently. 
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Sep 15, 2012 19:04
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Ah yes, obviously the government was behind it all, no one has their own views on the subject at all. No one *actually* hates Japan. What you are seeing is a managed letting off of steam. Don't let them protest and it'll explode beyond control. Manage the protest and it stays within reason. But the fact that this is "managed" dissent means that in a way the government is behind it. As opposed to "trust no one" US dissent, a different management strategy
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Sep 15, 2012 19:55
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McDowell posted:But the fact that this is "managed" dissent means that in a way the government is behind it. Well, if they try and stop it, then the anger is directed more at the cops and it just goes to hell fast. Cops hanging back and letting it happen have more of an ability to step in and go "ok, that's enough, you had your fun". No beatings, no tear gas, no rubber bullets as long as certain lines remain uncrossed. Standing in the way of a mob like that... haha, good luck. You'll either lose badly and end up looking like stooges for the target, or you'll fight back and win and become WORSE than the target in the eyes of protestors. Annnnd, of course it's an excuse to get some smashy smashy out of your system for whatever reason as long as you say "gently caress japan".
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Sep 15, 2012 20:06
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McDowell posted:But the fact that this is "managed" dissent means that in a way the government is behind it. You can argue Beijing is experimenting new ways to express opinions without any official come out and say it. It's pretty impressive in how controlled it is in these days and age with all the internet/sms/weibo/qq communication freedom. Only guys who got the short end of the stick were the Japanese car owners. I hope the insurance will cover it.
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Sep 16, 2012 02:15
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Who put the Japanese cars there to begin with?   Here we hold property rights as sacrosanct. Get off my lawn, you loving kids.
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Sep 16, 2012 04:35
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Ah yes, obviously the government was behind it all, no one has their own views on the subject at all. None that didn't come direct from CCTV at least. Are you denying that the state-run media has had a major hand in whipping up this hysteria?
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Sep 16, 2012 05:56
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