Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Update on the Syria-Turkey situation from the Turkish press

quote:

Syria keeping military 10 km away from Turkish border, report says

The Syrian administration has told its military to keep aircraft at least 10 kilometers away from the Turkish border and to avoid artillery fire near the border one day after the Turkish government received a mandate from Parliament for military operations in foreign countries, a news report said on Friday.
Turkey's ntvmsnbc.com news portal claimed, citing �reliable sources,� that the Syrian regime had ordered all kinds of military aircraft, including warplanes and helicopters, to stay at least 10 kilometers from the Turkish border. The report also said a number of Syrian warplanes which approached within 10 kilometers of the Turkish border despite this warning had been ordered to turn back immediately by Syrian authorities.

Turkish artillery bombarded Syrian military targets for a second day on Thursday, responding to the mortar fire that killed five people the day before in the southeastern town of Ak�akale.

The salvoes reportedly killed several Syrian soldiers, and Turkey's Parliament stepped up pressure on the political front by authorizing cross-border military action in the event of further aggression.

According to ntvmsnbc's report, Syria had ascertained that the Turkish artillery fire had killed 10 Syrian soldiers and damaged three tanks and two armored vehicles.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 15:22

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:40

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Looks like the opposition shot down another chopper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ-UDhhsibs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxkLcxRLUnM

# ? Oct 5, 2012 16:26

Shadoer: Aug 31, 2011; Zoe Quinn is one of many women targeted by the Gamergate harassment campaign.

Support a feminist today!

On a downer note for the FSA, looks like defectors are drying up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/world/middleeast/syria-rebels-press-harder-to-gain-more-fighters.html

quote:

Cajoling, Drugging and More as Rebels Try to Draw Defectors

ANTAKYA, Turkey � For months, the disparate militias known as the Free Syrian Army relied on defections from the Syrian military to lead a credible if halting challenge to the government of President Bashar al-Assad . Every day seemed to bring word of new recruits. Soldiers fled in packs, or officers stole across a border, lifting the rebels� morale while swelling their ranks.

But now opposition commanders say defections have slowed to a trickle. Some commanders have given up trying to entice defectors, and others have resorted to more desperate measures: cajoling, duping, threatening and even drugging and kidnapping military men to get them to change sides, or at least stay out of the fight. Without defections, they say, the opposition cannot hope to grow, never mind prevail.

�We use means only used by the devil,� said Ahmed Qunatri, a rebel commander in northern Syria who defected from the Republican Guard.

As Syria�s fighting burns into its 19th month, Mr. Assad�s forces have moved effectively to cut off what amounts to the armed rebellion�s most significant resource: soldiers with training and weapons who change sides. In a shift in strategy, the government has preferred to attack towns and neighborhoods from a distance using artillery and air power, preserving its resources and distancing its soldiers from rebel fighters � and from the public, including friends and neighbors, who might encourage defections.

Some rebel commanders now fret that all the soldiers who were inclined to defect already have. The rest remain loyal to the government, or are terrified of betraying it. Others are just suspicious of an armed movement that has found extremists among its ranks. A suicide attack in Aleppo on Wednesday that killed more than 40 people and devastated a government-held district drew widespread anger. Aware of just how much the violence is undermining popular support for the uprising, some rebel groups immediately tried to blame the government for staging the bombing. The government blamed the rebels. By nightfall, Jabhet al-Nusra, an insurgent group affiliated with Al Qaeda, claimed responsibility for the suicide bombings.

Col. Qassem Sa�adeddine, the head of the rebel military council for Homs, said in an interview in Turkey that the government�s close watch, especially at checkpoints, meant �communicating with officers has become much harder.� The colonel said it had also become more difficult to protect the families of defectors � for example, safe houses were harder to come by in neighborhoods depopulated by the government. �The officers are more hesitant these days,� he said. More and more, he said, the rebels used force.

�We arrest them and give them a chance to defect,� he said. �Some are convinced after a week, so they are welcomed.� Those who remained unconvinced � loyal to the government � were imprisoned, he said, and would face a �trial.�

Some of the methods used by the rebels reflected a cunning forged in necessity, but also an ability, at times, for brutality. Several times in recent months, rebel fighting groups � making no effort to persuade their enemies � have been accused of summarily executing captured soldiers. Last week, rebel fighters claimed credit for bombing a school they said was used as a military base. �The fewer the defectors, the less the opposition strives to attract soldiers rather than just fight them,� said Peter Harling, an expert on Syria with the International Crisis Group. �And the harsher armed groups treat the enemy, the fewer will change sides. It�s a self-reinforcing dynamic.�

Several commanders said they were still trying to persuade. Mr. Qunatri, the rebel commander, said in an interview here in Antakya that he preferred sending innocent-seeming emissaries to soldiers at military checkpoints. A 12-year-old boy, for example, helped turn one soldier, teasing him mercilessly until he relented. �Dude, why don�t you defect,� the boy would scold, repeatedly, as if the heavily guarded checkpoint was a schoolyard.

Another rebel officer, who uses the nom de guerre Abu Ali, sent a barber, Walid, who made friends with the soldiers by offering haircuts or doing laundry. �They want to defect,� Abu Ali said. �They don�t know how, or who can help.�

Another rebel commander who was a merchant before the war said he once sent a shepherd, who wandered by checkpoints and lent a sympathetic ear to the soldiers. �It helps if the soldiers were shepherds as well,� the commander said. �Nostalgia.�

CLICK LINK FOR REST OF THE ARTICLE

# ? Oct 5, 2012 16:31

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here's four more videos, including two showing it being hit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIu6GgJ7dU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MBcZo5azsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfdn8_9SWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdItymwxjjo

# ? Oct 5, 2012 16:34

Munin: Nov 14, 2004

Shadoer posted:

On a downer note for the FSA, looks like defectors are drying up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/world/middleeast/syria-rebels-press-harder-to-gain-more-fighters.html

Yeah, now that you have more widespread videos of executions of army people and a building death-toll on both sides this isn't to surprising. The remaining loyalist soldiers will have had comrades executed and killed which is unlikely to make them well disposed to the rebels. The Rebels are also less likely to welcome an army soldier with open arms by this point.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 16:41

mitztronic: Jun 17, 2005; mixcloud.com/mitztronic

Brown Moses posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdItymwxjjo

The other vidos were pretty bad (shaky, poor quality, bad angle), this one is awesome though (in terms of quality) - you can see the tail get hit (?) and then the helicopter loses its stability and the tail rips off as it enters a sharp spin/dive/flip, and then you can even see what appear to be the blades breaking off during its fall

I wonder what they used to shoot it down? Some kind of high caliber non-explosive round?

(e: I am appreciative that you posted all the videos, I was just pointing that one out because it was the 4th in your list and not everyone clicks on all of them)

mitztronic fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Oct 5, 2012

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:05

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

mitztronic posted:

The other vidos were pretty bad (shaky, poor quality, bad angle), this one is awesome though (in terms of quality) - you can see the tail get hit (?) and then the helicopter loses its stability and the tail rips off as it enters a sharp spin/dive/flip, and then you can even see what appear to be the blades breaking off during its fall

I wonder what they used to shoot it down? Some kind of high caliber non-explosive round?

(e: I am appreciative that you posted all the videos, I was just pointing that one out because it was the 4th in your list and not everyone clicks on all of them)

It's an Mi-8 and if I had to guess I'd say it was a short burst from a 23mm AAA gun that brought it down. You can see the shell exploding on the rotor blade.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

I've posted more video on my blog, including this really clear shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzOqnfetecU

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:29

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

Holy poo poo that was quite the hit. Looks like they thought they could get away with slowly orbiting the target ala Somalia and ended up getting their tail rotor shredded. Albeit that was slightly more catastrophic than the Blackhawks...

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:32

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

You've gotta feel bad for the crew, that's a pretty horrible way to go.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:35

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

Brown Moses posted:

You've gotta feel bad for the crew, that's a pretty horrible way to go.

It looked like a hell of a ride, but when they hit it was instant. At least there's that.

Although dropping out of the sky in a hulk of screeching metal doesn't exactly sound like the way I'd like to spend my final moments. That's why air crashes terrify me.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 17:47

Lightbulb Out: Apr 28, 2006; slack jawed yokel

Warbadger posted:

It's an Mi-8 and if I had to guess I'd say it was a short burst from a 23mm AAA gun that brought it down. You can see the shell exploding on the rotor blade.

Yeah, it definitely looses a main rotor blade, which then causes instability causing the tail assembly to fall off as well. Scary.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:04

a bad enough dude: Jun 30, 2007; APPARENTLY NOT A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STICK TO ONE THING AT A TIME WHETHER ITS PBPS OR A SHITTY BROWSER GAME THAT I BEG MONEY FOR AND RIPPED FROM TROPICO. ALSO I LET RETARDED UKRANIANS THAT CAN'T PROGRAM AND HAVE 2000 HOURS IN GARRY'S MOD RUN MY SHIT.

Breaking news according to Al Jazeera, Turkey has apparently returned fire after Syrian mortars landed in Turkey again.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:08

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

a bad enough dude posted:

Breaking news according to Al Jazeera, Turkey has apparently returned fire after Syrian mortars landed in Turkey again.

Wh - why on earth would Syria do that?

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:11

Nuclear Spoon: Aug 18, 2010; I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive

Surely it's possible for there to be rogue elements who WANT Turkey to get involved and have the means to provoke this?

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:14

camel melt: Sep 21, 2006

a bad enough dude posted:

Breaking news according to Al Jazeera, Turkey has apparently returned fire after Syrian mortars landed in Turkey again.

How certain do we think is Turkey that the mortars are coming from the Syrian army itself? I know they have apparently figured out they are being fired from military positions but it sounds like suicide. Which points me to either Kurds or rogue military trying to sabotage their own side.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:16

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Pureauthor posted:

Wh - why on earth would Syria do that?

No loving way. Couldn't have been regime forces.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:17

mitztronic: Jun 17, 2005; mixcloud.com/mitztronic

Pureauthor posted:

Wh - why on earth would Syria do that?

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:18

Red7: Sep 10, 2008

Yeah, could be FSA as well trying to force Turkey into the conflict - the last thing on the list would be a deliberate regime attack.

Remember all this is is some guy(s) dropping mortar bombs into a tube.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:18

J33uk: Oct 24, 2005

Red7 posted:

Yeah, could be FSA as well trying to force Turkey into the conflict - the last thing on the list would be a deliberate regime attack.

Remember all this is is some guy(s) dropping mortar bombs into a tube.

There's also the possibility that command and control along that border area for the Syrian army has gone to poo poo. There might be units out there just determined to mortar anything that looks like a rebel position and drat the consequences.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:33

Chronojam: Feb 20, 2006; This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!

steve1 posted:

How certain do we think is Turkey that the mortars are coming from the Syrian army itself? I know they have apparently figured out they are being fired from military positions but it sounds like suicide. Which points me to either Kurds or rogue military trying to sabotage their own side.

Accurate counter-battery fire is a pretty well developed thing among modern armies. It can be automated to a very high degree, and usually comes very soon after the attack, since the idea is to hit the enemy before they can either fire again or move away. We're talking a higher response delay for the first attacks, but once you're actively expecting inbound shots, you can be really quick with a reply. I've seen cautionary videos that insurgents have set up to warn their friends: a lone 40mm mortar fires towards an American base and in 30 seconds you've got large caliber artillery pounding the location.

Since Turkey received mortar fire and their counter-battery attacks seem confirmed to have damaged Syrian equipment and killed Syrian troops, whatever fired at the Turkish position must have been pretty close to those positions within a pretty recent timeframe. Close enough for Syria to notice the FSA mortar team operating right by their base, I'd imagine.

Still possible further attacks would come from rogue elements or suicidal defectors willing to risk the return fire. Syria claimed responsibility for the intial attack, didn't they?

# ? Oct 5, 2012 18:34

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Security Council condemns "terrorist attacks" in Aleppo

The following Security Council statement was proposed by Russia and issued today by Council President Gert Rosenthal (Guatemala):

quote:
The members of the Security Council condemned in the strongest terms the terrorist attacks in Aleppo, Syria, on 3 October, causing dozens of deaths and over 100 civilians injured, responsibility for which was claimed by the Jebhat al-Nusra group affiliated with Al-Qaida. They expressed their deep sympathy and sincere condolences to the families of the victims of these heinous acts and to the people of Syria.

The members of the Security Council reaffirmed that terrorism in all its forms and manifestations constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security, and that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed.
The members of the Security Council reiterated their determination to combat all forms of terrorism, in accordance with its responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations.

The members of the Security Council reminded States that they must ensure that measures taken to combat terrorism comply with all their obligations under international law, in particular international human rights, refugee and humanitarian law.

The interesting thing about the condemnation is they refer to Jebhat al-Nusra separately from the opposition, but as we've seen today they fight along side the opposition, not separately.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 19:09

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Chronojam posted:

Accurate counter-battery fire is a pretty well developed thing among modern armies. It can be automated to a very high degree, and usually comes very soon after the attack, since the idea is to hit the enemy before they can either fire again or move away. We're talking a higher response delay for the first attacks, but once you're actively expecting inbound shots, you can be really quick with a reply. I've seen cautionary videos that insurgents have set up to warn their friends: a lone 40mm mortar fires towards an American base and in 30 seconds you've got large caliber artillery pounding the location.

Since Turkey received mortar fire and their counter-battery attacks seem confirmed to have damaged Syrian equipment and killed Syrian troops, whatever fired at the Turkish position must have been pretty close to those positions within a pretty recent timeframe. Close enough for Syria to notice the FSA mortar team operating right by their base, I'd imagine.

Still possible further attacks would come from rogue elements or suicidal defectors willing to risk the return fire. Syria claimed responsibility for the intial attack, didn't they?

Yes, with radar tracking, the return fire could be in the air before the initiating barrage even hits.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 20:17

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Shadoer posted:

On a downer note for the FSA, looks like defectors are drying up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/world/middleeast/syria-rebels-press-harder-to-gain-more-fighters.html

Uh that actually sounds like what Caro was really freaked out about.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 21:08

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

J33uk posted:

There's also the possibility that command and control along that border area for the Syrian army has gone to poo poo. There might be units out there just determined to mortar anything that looks like a rebel position and drat the consequences.

I'm not 100%, but I recall hearing a bit about groups of Syrian Army soldiers that aren't even reporting to the regime. Could've swore some of the massacres that happened were because of roving bands like that. The Army is stretched pretty drat thin. It's not unlikely for there to be splinter offshoots of the Army fighting for power as well.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 21:09

camel melt: Sep 21, 2006

Fangz posted:

Yes, with radar tracking, the return fire could be in the air before the initiating barrage even hits.

NPR posted:

Syria acknowledged today that it was responsible for yesterday's mortar attack on a Turkish town across the border. Five civilians were killed. Turkish officials say Syria also apologized to the United Nations and said that such an incident would not happen again.

Syria apologized, but what about this second hit? It's got to be either opposition/rogue military trying to get Turkey to intervene or Kurds just stirring the pot but the acknowledgement & apology for the first incident makes this really weird. We do know the border regions are pretty jacked up right now with plenty of evidence of some stations being overrun by opposition. And yeah, Turkish officials said they found their target via radar I believe.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 21:42

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

There's a bunch of reasons this could have happened without resorting to conspiracy theories. It could simply be a mistake or a commander who didn't get the memo. It could be that someone was acting outside his orders/irrationally/etc.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 22:05

NovemberMike: Dec 28, 2008

Metamucil posted:

Bit offtopic, but is that a retention cable I see or does his handgun double as a handset?

It's a retention lanyard, the other end attaches to his holster.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 22:21

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Brown Moses posted:

The interesting thing about the condemnation is they refer to Jebhat al-Nusra separately from the opposition, but as we've seen today they fight along side the opposition, not separately.

Lots of political games behind the scenes.

http://www.voanews.com/content/soviet-union-light-future-putin-russia/1521341.html

Also on the front page: Tibetan PM in exile wanting talks with China

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:06

SilentD: Aug 22, 2012; by toby

steve1 posted:

Syria apologized, but what about this second hit? It's got to be either opposition/rogue military trying to get Turkey to intervene or Kurds just stirring the pot but the acknowledgement & apology for the first incident makes this really weird. We do know the border regions are pretty jacked up right now with plenty of evidence of some stations being overrun by opposition. And yeah, Turkish officials said they found their target via radar I believe.

I'm fairly sure any regular military member would be aware that any competent armed force (of which Turkey qualifies) can track artillery shots in the air and even if they miss figure out where the shot came from and who fired it really loving fast.

Firing artillery shots at a competent military is a sure fire way to make sure wherever you are is a crater shortly after.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:25

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

I think what is much more important than considering Turkey a monolithic entity is realizing that the AKP and the TSK are at an all-time low with each other.

The Syrian refugee camps are more or less wildly unpopular in Turkey (last time I was there this summer, it was almost a daily issue in the news, with the CHP pressing rather hard for inspection rights and such), and the whole thing just seems like it'd be a great opportunity for the TSK to bolster their position against the AKP if the CHP can capitalize on the whole thing.

With the frequent PKK attacks adding to the whole clusterfuck, the CHP could gain major points against the AKP, the logical AKP response would be to strike targets in Iraq and Syria to demonstrate they aren't limp on the foreign policy front (especially since "peace at home, peace abroad" has broken down quite a while ago).

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:37

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

steve1 posted:

Syria apologized, but what about this second hit? It's got to be either opposition/rogue military trying to get Turkey to intervene or Kurds just stirring the pot but the acknowledgement & apology for the first incident makes this really weird.

Sometimes armed forces just are incompetent. The USAAF bombed Switzerland during WW2 several times, Soviets bombed Sweden etc. I don't think that the Turkish military intelligence would be so incompetent as to not have noticed if some Syrian militia was trying to make a false flag attack.

First of all, the Turks follow the events close to the border extra-special-carefully, and within mortar range of their towns is worthy of super-duper-extra-care supervision. If as much as a sparrow farts, the Turkish counter-battery radars will pick up the location. And they would know, one way or another, who was responsible. Turkey's National Intelligence probably knows of the FSA secret operations before FSA leaders know about them.

That leaves the possibility of a joint Turkey-FSA conspiracy, for sure. It might also be Obama's stealth bombers trying to initiate a short victorious war just before the election. It could also be an ARG.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:40

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Where I lived in Prague there was a horrible soviet style building in an otherwise totally "historic" looking neighbourhood. It was because during the war some american bomber got a LITTLE off target trying to bomb Dresden and some how ended up over Prague and didn't realize it. It's pretty easy to gently caress up in a war.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:43

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Nenonen posted:

That leaves the possibility of a joint Turkey-FSA conspiracy, for sure. It might also be Obama's stealth bombers trying to initiate a short victorious war just before the election. It could also be an ARG.

This would be more ridiculous if JITEM wasn't a thing.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:47

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Syria agrees to buffer zone along Turkish border, say reports

quote:

Syria has agreed to keep its forces six miles (10km) back from the Turkish border in the wake of this week's deadly shelling incident, Turkish media has reported.

Such a move would amount to a buffer zone � fulfilling a longstanding request by Syrian opposition groups that would allow rebels to operate freely and civilians to seek refuge.

Syria has not confirmed the claim and Ankara has made no official announcement. However, several Turkish media outlets, citing well-placed sources, claimed a deal had been struck.

Opposition groups have implored Turkey and the international community to establish an area in which they can move without fear of jets and helicopters, claiming it would be a significant step in their 19-month battle to oust the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

However, the demands have been rejected by Ankara, as well as the US and Nato, who have all repeatedly baulked at suggestions that they directly intervene in the conflict. A buffer zone would not be effective unless it was enforced militarily, something that Turkey has so far been unwilling to do. However, the Syrian shelling of the Turkish border town of Akcacle has sparked Ankara to recalibrate its military options to deal with the gathering crisis across its southern border.

Theoretically this is good news and de-escalation. The reality of how it's going to be enforced, along with the temptation for Syria to go after FSA fighters, may make this actually more dangerous. I guess it'll be in the details when it's announced.

# ? Oct 5, 2012 23:58

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

steve1 posted:

Syria apologized, but what about this second hit? It's got to be either opposition/rogue military trying to get Turkey to intervene or Kurds just stirring the pot but the acknowledgement & apology for the first incident makes this really weird. We do know the border regions are pretty jacked up right now with plenty of evidence of some stations being overrun by opposition. And yeah, Turkish officials said they found their target via radar I believe.

No matter whether it's FSA or rogue army forces or militias or space alien pod people, Syria has to claim responsibility and apologize for the attacks. The alternative is to admit that they have lost their ability to control their side of the border and control their own men and that's all the pretext Turkey needs to openly operate cross-border without it becoming A Thing in the security council.

# ? Oct 6, 2012 03:10

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Deteriorata posted:

Syria agrees to buffer zone along Turkish border, say reports

Theoretically this is good news and de-escalation. The reality of how it's going to be enforced, along with the temptation for Syria to go after FSA fighters, may make this actually more dangerous. I guess it'll be in the details when it's announced.

Already brought up in the thread. The army had been vigilant against soldiers getting within 10km of the Turkish border, and had called back a jet or something that was getting too close. That's why it's weird that there was a mortar attack today after the army was already backing off. Assad has to know the implications of what he is facing with Turkey, and it seems unlikely that any soldier would have been left unaware of the buffer zone, let alone started lobbing mortars across it.

# ? Oct 6, 2012 03:41

QuoProQuid: Jan 12, 2012; Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

What is astonishing for me is how quickly the Al-Nusra Front has established a presence within Syria. From January to April, the group had only conducted three operations. According to the Institute for the Study of War they went from seven in March to over 60 in June. The Iraqi government has claimed the group is being supported by Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but that can't be their only backer.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't most of northern Syria controlled by the PYK and the FSA?

# ? Oct 6, 2012 03:51

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Brown Moses posted:

I've posted more video on my blog, including this really clear shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzOqnfetecU

I am seriously starting to wonder if the rebels have a sniper who is a crack shot and is able to take down choppers with a high caliber rifle. I know that sounds really far fetched, but in that video it looks like a single bullet took out the tail section of the chopper. And, there is a video of a FSA sniper shooting a very high caliber scoped rifle (like a 50 cal or 20mm?) almost straight up, as if hes shooting at an aircraft. It could all be just show, and they probably took the chopper down with an AA gun but still it makes me wonder..

# ? Oct 6, 2012 05:03

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:40

EvanTH: Apr 24, 2004; i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

The-Mole posted:

Uh that actually sounds like what Caro was really freaked out about.

I will stick my fingers deep into my butthole and tear my gonads out through my rectum and ship them to you registered mail insured for $420.69 if it turns out Caro was doing anything but reporting on a schizophrenic episode inside his own broken head.

Schizophrenics going through their episodes sound (and apparently feel) like they're under siege and it's absolutely terrible to watch up close, even if some of the chaos looks like comedy from a distant vantage point. That guy is trying to get into a war zone to sort out his own personal poo poo and it's dangerous for everyone and shouldn't be encouraged, and the last thing on Earth you'll want to do is accept anything he says as an accurate source.

Charliegrs posted:

I am seriously starting to wonder if the rebels have a sniper who is a crack shot and is able to take down choppers with a high caliber rifle. I know that sounds really far fetched, but in that video it looks like a single bullet took out the tail section of the chopper. And, there is a video of a FSA sniper shooting a very high caliber scoped rifle (like a 50 cal or 20mm?) almost straight up, as if hes shooting at an aircraft. It could all be just show, and they probably took the chopper down with an AA gun but still it makes me wonder..

You can hear guns cracking off in the background in one of the videos but I assumed it was celebratory fire?

The Brown Menace posted:

I think what is much more important than considering Turkey a monolithic entity is realizing that the AKP and the TSK are at an all-time low with each other.

The Syrian refugee camps are more or less wildly unpopular in Turkey (last time I was there this summer, it was almost a daily issue in the news, with the CHP pressing rather hard for inspection rights and such), and the whole thing just seems like it'd be a great opportunity for the TSK to bolster their position against the AKP if the CHP can capitalize on the whole thing.

With the frequent PKK attacks adding to the whole clusterfuck, the CHP could gain major points against the AKP, the logical AKP response would be to strike targets in Iraq and Syria to demonstrate they aren't limp on the foreign policy front (especially since "peace at home, peace abroad" has broken down quite a while ago).

Can y'all cliffs-notes me on some of these factions? I'm American and this reads to me like a bunch of healthplans and counterstrike clans are battling for party supremacy.

EvanTH fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Oct 6, 2012

# ? Oct 6, 2012 05:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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