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Noah posted:What happens if a punt is blocked through the back of the end zone? For instance, a kicker kicking in his own endzone, it gets blocked and shoots back through the back. Touchback? Safety? In 2009 (?) against Ohio State, USC's long snapper whiffed it right over his punter's head and out the back of the endzone for a safety. They still won, but momentum shifted for awhile.
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Oct 19, 2012 20:50
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Noah posted:What happens if a punt is blocked through the back of the end zone? For instance, a kicker kicking in his own endzone, it gets blocked and shoots back through the back. Touchback? Safety? When the ball goes dead in an end zone and it's not a touchdown, you work out touchback/safety by deciding whose fault it is that the ball ended up there, and then it goes against them. In this situation the rulebook blames Team A for having to kick the ball, not Team B for being good enough to block it.
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Oct 19, 2012 21:29
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Why, when getting corraled behind the line of scrimmage, do QBs take the sack rather than toss to the sidelines to reset? Is it the risk of the defence knocking the ball before he gets his arm forward and causing the fumble behind the offensive line?
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Oct 19, 2012 22:27
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:Why, when getting corraled behind the line of scrimmage, do QBs take the sack rather than toss to the sidelines to reset? Is it the risk of the defence knocking the ball before he gets his arm forward and causing the fumble behind the offensive line? ^^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_grounding THIS is how you take a safety https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTL9CMZJeE
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Oct 19, 2012 22:43
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To add on to intentional grounding (or for instances where it wouldn't apply) yes it is sometimes dangerous to throw the ball away if you're about to be hit. If you know you can throw it away then great, but even if you can actually get a pass off it might not go where you're thinking it will if someone is hitting you at the same time. Every now and then in that situation you'll see a duck fly out of the QB's hand and go straight to a defender for an easy pick. Let us know if that link explains it well enough by the way, the rule can seem complicated.
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Oct 19, 2012 22:51
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I had to look it up because I wasn't sure if I'd imagined it or not, but sure enough: my favorite safety I saw was 2006 PSU-Illinois. PSU's up 17-12 late in the game with Illinois pinned inside their own five. Illinois clearly intends to take the safety on 4th and 15, but Juice Williams rolls out (?!) instead of just falling down. He gets sacked in the endzone for the safety. There's about a minute and a half left and its only 19-12 now. Illinois goes for the on-side...which is fielded by PSU, who runs it straight into the endzone. It was a hilarious bad game. Illinois only scored on FGs and PSU's defense scored 16 points and two of the three TDs on the day. Game never happened.
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Oct 20, 2012 01:09
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:Why, when getting corraled behind the line of scrimmage, do QBs take the sack rather than toss to the sidelines to reset? Is it the risk of the defence knocking the ball before he gets his arm forward and causing the fumble behind the offensive line? It can be called intentional grounding and the result of intentional grounding in the end zone is a safety. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d826a9a00/Safety-first-for-the-Giants
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Oct 20, 2012 01:45
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Grittybeard posted:To add on to intentional grounding (or for instances where it wouldn't apply) yes it is sometimes dangerous to throw the ball away if you're about to be hit. If you know you can throw it away then great, but even if you can actually get a pass off it might not go where you're thinking it will if someone is hitting you at the same time. Every now and then in that situation you'll see a duck fly out of the QB's hand and go straight to a defender for an easy pick. That explained it really well, thanks! I still don't really understand the kicking rules. I think it goes something like this? The receiver can call for a fair catch, in which case kicking team cannot contact him. Not sure what happens if he fails to catch, treated same as if no fair catch was called? If the Kicking team touches the ball before the Receiving team, the ball is called dead at that spot and play begins with the receiving team in possession from that line. If the receiving team makes contact with the ball, the ball is live, so if they make contact but don't grab it the kicking team can take possession(I guess it is treated as a fumble?), and this is the theory behind onside kicks(are they the same thing as a squib kick?), you tfy to richochet the ball off a receiving team member so you can recover the fumble and possession. If the ball gets to the endzone it is a touchback. If the ball leaves through the sidelines it is called dead where it crossed, and play restarts from there, does this only occur with punting? For a kickoff is this a touchback? For PAT attempts the ball is dead if its blocked?(although not in college football) For field goal attempts is it treated like a punt? Is the ball live if it comes off a defender? Can it be returned? Does a failed field goal count as 4 outs so the ball is reset at the line of scrimmage and possession swapped?
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Oct 20, 2012 02:17
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Just answering the bits I know; Yes PATs are dead if unsuccessful and cannot be returned in the NFL. and yes field goal attempts that remain in the field of play can be returned for touchdowns. Devin Hester did so a few years back I believe
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Oct 20, 2012 03:19
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:The receiver can call for a fair catch, in which case kicking team cannot contact him. Not sure what happens if he fails to catch, treated same as if no fair catch was called? quote:If the Kicking team touches the ball before the Receiving team, the ball is called dead at that spot and play begins with the receiving team in possession from that line. quote:If the receiving team makes contact with the ball, the ball is live, so if they make contact but don't grab it the kicking team can take possession(I guess it is treated as a fumble?), and this is the theory behind onside kicks(are they the same thing as a squib kick?), you tfy to richochet the ball off a receiving team member so you can recover the fumble and possession. A squib kick is a kickoff that rolls on the ground, ostensibly to prevent the receiving team from having a chance to return it (it will be picked up by a fat guy and the kicking team will be right in his face quickly). quote:If the ball gets to the endzone it is a touchback. quote:For PAT attempts the ball is dead if its blocked?(although not in college football) quote:For field goal attempts is it treated like a punt? Is the ball live if it comes off a defender? Can it be returned? Does a failed field goal count as 4 outs so the ball is reset at the line of scrimmage and possession swapped? If a field goal falls short and onto the field of play, the defense can catch and return it. But since you get the ball back after a miss anyway, they usually won't bother to try unless it's the end of a half. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wuQ9kd_m2A If the field goal is blocked immediately after it is kicked (at the line of scrimmage), the kicking team cannot recover it, unless it was blocked backwards behind the line. If it was tipped and fell forward past the line, only the defense can recover it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrU8z4w8T-4 Here's the infamous Leon Lett play. The Dolphins could not recover the ball after it was blocked at the line, but then the Cowboys touched it, so it was a live ball. Ice To Meet You fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 03:29
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Thanks for that, you guys have been really helpful. So I guess you would usually use a squib kick if you think time will expire before the play is dead, or if you think your defence is a better chance to hold out for what time is left, than your kicking team is of blocking the return. Another thing I was wondering is how plays are communicated to the team from the coordinator? Does the qb have an earpiece in his helmet? If so, were QBs more autonomous before that was invented, given a basic strategy at the start of each drive, and then running plays themself out on the field.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:00
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:Thanks for that, you guys have been really helpful. So I guess you would usually use a squib kick if you think time will expire before the play is dead, or if you think your defence is a better chance to hold out for what time is left, than your kicking team is of blocking the return. In the NFL yeah they have ear pieces in their helmets. In lower level ball the use boards or hand signals to get plays in. They may also have a player(usually a wr) who is a play runner and comes off after a play to get the next one while his replacement runs in with the play for the current down. And yeah historically the coaches played a much less important role on game day similar to how rugby coaches are today, so yeah the qb and captains on the field had much more control.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:08
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Years ago (prior to the '80s), before there were earpieces and offenses were less sophisticated, many NFL quarterbacks called their own plays. It was a mark of incompetence or mistrust for a coach to have to send plays in. Now, with special personnel packages for various sets and better communications, almost all playcalling is done by the offensive coordinators from the Press Box.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:15
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I originally was going to posit that all safeties were badass and then I remembered that poo poo, and stuff like holding in the endzone and had to rewrite the whole thing XD.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:50
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MonsterUnderYourBed posted:Thanks for that, you guys have been really helpful. So I guess you would usually use a squib kick if you think time will expire before the play is dead, or if you think your defence is a better chance to hold out for what time is left, than your kicking team is of blocking the return.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:52
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How long can we expect to see QB's like Manning and Brady for? Would it make sense for the Patriots to trade Brady before the end of career? Or is it a matter of just not giving him a contract?
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Oct 20, 2012 07:59
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Just to expand on Chill McFreeze's post, as I understand it: There are basically two kick situations: free kicks and kicks from scrimmage. A kick from scrimmage is any sort of kick attempted on a normal down; a free kick is a kick after a score. On a kick from scrimmage, the kicking team can never recover the ball unless it's first touched by the receiving team. A free kick is so called because any player is free to recover the ball, except that the kicking team can't recover it before (1) it goes ten yards and (2) touches the ground or another player. In either case, the kicking team can't directly interfere with the receiving team's attempts to catch the ball, but "catch" is defined to mean "before the ball touches the ground". So on an ideal on-side kick, the ball is kicked into the ground (so that the kicking team is allowed to recover it and can't be flagged for interference) and then bounces at least ten yards and is recovered by the kicking team. There are three physical ways that you can kick the ball: place kicks (kicked directly from the ground, usually from a tee or from someone's hold), punts (dropped from hands, kicked before it touches the ground), and drop kicks (dropped from hands, kicked after it touches the ground). Drop kicks are totally archaic, because you always have an option and the bounce makes them less effective in every way. You can't place kick on the free kick after a safety (basically as an additional "screw you" to the kicking team, because punts are generally much shorter — it's essentially impossible to punt the ball out of the back of the endzone). You can't score a field goal with a punt (because at least in theory they're longer and harder to block), and you can't score on a free kick (because letting teams score immediately on the kick after a score would actually be kindof dumb).
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Oct 20, 2012 09:30
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rjmccall posted:You can't place kick on the free kick after a safety You can indeed placekick after a safety and teams sometimes do. Punts are usually preferred due to the longer hang time providing better downfield coverage and a shorter return, but teams with good placekickers will use a standard kickoff. Safeties are just rather rare to begin with, so a placekick after a safety is rarer still.
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Oct 20, 2012 13:21
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causticBeet posted:How long can we expect to see QB's like Manning and Brady for? Would it make sense for the Patriots to trade Brady before the end of career? Or is it a matter of just not giving him a contract? As long as Brady is productive, he will be a Patriot. If his numbers start to slip, or the management see something they don't like, they will fleece some team for a 1st and 2nd, or at least a 1st. Football players try too hard to hang on for too long. They always think they have more left to give, which results in most retirements coming after an injury, or after bouncing from team to team and getting cut. Look at Favre and McNabb and how their careers ended. Those are probably the biggest name franchise QB's to have retried recently. I have a feeling Manning will stay in Denver for another year or two, get traded or cut (because of the large contract) go to another team and retire within 5 years.
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Oct 20, 2012 14:34
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swickles posted:Look at Favre and McNabb and how their careers ended. And that's how you get Joe Montana in a Chiefs uniform.
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Oct 20, 2012 16:22
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Sash! posted:And that's how you get Joe Montana in a Chiefs uniform. It helped that his back up on the niners was a hall of famer.
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Oct 20, 2012 19:23
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The NFL has a rule forbidding the use of a tee on a free kick after a safety, so their teams always punt. I was going to go round and sweep up a few loose ends, and then 45 minutes later I had a big long post and was going into probably far more detail than is good for this thread, so I decided gently caress it, football over here starts again in a couple of weeks, so instead of doing odds and sods out of context I'm going to just go to the rules thread (which will happily field any rules question from the 1st downies) and go over the entire rule about kicks because that would be a good idea. Oh, and a stats question; if Team A punts, it's muffed, and they get the ball back, does that count as a 4th down conversion the same way that a successful QB sneak on 4th and 1 does? Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 19:32
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Chilly McFreeze posted:
This isn't a dead ball, it's illegal touching and a spot foul. If the kicking team touches it; it can be returned by the receiving team, risk free, since they can always elect to go back to the spot it was illegally touched. Illegal touching won't offset a hold or anything like that though.
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Oct 20, 2012 19:33
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Trin Tragula posted:Oh, and a stats question; if Team A punts, it's muffed, and they get the ball back, does that count as a 4th down conversion the same way that a successful QB sneak on 4th and 1 does? As far as I can recall from every box score I've seen it counts as a turnover and not a 4th down conversion.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:25
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Trin Tragula posted:The NFL has a rule forbidding the use of a tee on a free kick after a safety, so their teams always punt. Huh, I didn't realize this was NFL-only, okay. I'll go read your post in the rules thread to find out what else I horribly muffed.
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Oct 20, 2012 22:13
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rjmccall posted:Huh, I didn't realize this was NFL-only, okay. I'll go read your post in the rules thread to find out what else I horribly muffed. Ohio State kicked off a tee after a safety earlier today, while we're on the subject.
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Oct 20, 2012 22:18
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KettleWL posted:As far as I can recall from every box score I've seen it counts as a turnover and not a 4th down conversion. It's akin to a fumble on an interception.
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Oct 21, 2012 16:22
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For some reason australias national broadcaster(think NPRish) 24 hours news service decided to give the results of all the sunday games in a world news bulletin and my team lost so theres no point even watching the replay. Guess I can still watch the monday night game and wait for next week 
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Oct 22, 2012 05:19
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I guess Detroit decided to put on a clinic for how not to play offence. This is utterly horrid stuff.
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Oct 23, 2012 15:25
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not sure if this is the right thread, but I figure I'll have more luck here than anywhere else. I'm looking for dvds of old super bowls, ideally with the commercials. I did some googling and could not find any, and the nfl website doesn't seem particularly helpful. does anyone know if a dvd of old super bowls with the commercials is available anywhere? Ideally something from the 70's or 80's would be awesome.
lonelylikezoidberg fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 21:15
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You can get DVDs of all the Super Bowls you like from NFL Films, but they are the uninterrupted game footage/telecast. It's doubtful you'll be able to find the old commercials or complete tv broadcasts outside of VHS fan copies.
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Oct 29, 2012 02:37
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So, I never really watched professional football. College, yeah, a lot of it for my college team, but I never followed a pro team. I decided I should start watching. Since Chicago is my hometown, it's gotta be the Bears. So, someone tell me about the Bears. How are they doing this year? What are their prospects? Their strengths? Their star players? What will I get out of a Bears game?
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Oct 29, 2012 04:38
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There was a pretty good effort post about the Bears within the last few pages. Expect defence. This year you have a chance of offence too.
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Oct 29, 2012 05:16
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Check the previous page of this thread for good entry-level Bears stuff, especially R.D. Mangles post As for "What will I get out of a Bears game", expect a rock solid, predictable defense that thrives on turnovers (we have 6 pick-sixes already this year) that generates insane pass-rush from the front four, a bad/unreliable offense with some of the worst offensive line play in the league, and an average special teams unit that is/has been known to be the best in the league but is having problems pulling it together this season. We'll probably make the playoffs this year at this rate but any good team will be able to pile on enough points to shut us down
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Oct 29, 2012 05:19
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Here's something that might be good for a laugh http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/career-receiving.htm For reference, here's Brandon Marshall's career numbers code:
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Oct 29, 2012 05:29
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Why don't/can't players drop kick extra points or field goals? I read on Wikipedia that drop kicked balls are legal, so why don't they? There are some devilishly accurate players in rugby leagues who drop kick through the uprights. I just wonder why they never experiment with that.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:04
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It's more difficult. Players experiment with it in practice all the time, and Doug Flutie even did it in a game a few years ago.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:06
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The shape of the ball (mainly in the pointy ends) makes it more difficult to get it to reliably bounce like you need it to. Rugby balls are a little more friendly to dropkicks because they're rounder at the ends.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:16
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^^^ ^^^I think a lot of the problem would be the shape of the ball. The main point of a drop kick is when you hit it it already has momentum upward instead of downward. A rugby ball is more rounded than an american football so you can more reliably make it bounce straight up rather than roll on or back resuling in a miskick. I think the shape of the ball would also leave less margin for error on the boot contact due to reduced surface area of the sweet spot.
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Oct 29, 2012 07:22
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the posted:Why don't/can't players drop kick extra points or field goals? If you look at Australian football they do it too. In fact all the best. (read hardest hitting) punters are Aussie Rules players. Jeff Wing... 
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Oct 29, 2012 08:11
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