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Angra Mainyu posted:I just wanted to say that the instruments I picked up from this thread over the two year span it has been going made my Thanksgiving great. I ended up using more musical skill than expected at some weekend social events. I brought my plastic NAF to a house party; didn't get a whole lot of serious use out of it besides just playing an occasional riff, but drunk folks find it entertaining. On Sunday was at a laid-back brunch and it turned out the host's husband had a pair of lap-steel guitars he'd bought and never really used much, so I ended up borrowing one and playing background ramblings at low volume while we hung around and chatted. Went over well, and it was good to play lap steel again for the first time in years.  Lap steels are just so easy to make that they often show up around $100 even new. I'm vaguely tempted to get one, except a) I have a bunch of other music gear to play with (and some extras I should be selling) and b) I actually have a converted lap slide guitar sitting in my living room that just needs an extra bass string and would be good to go. I'll probably end up selling that slide guitar cheap (it was a $10 flea market guitar I put a nut riser on). Also going to sell my bajo quinto (cool but don't really use it), a set of Scottish smallpipes, a Northumbrian pipe chanter, a Puerto Rican cuatro, maybe some of the toy pianos, and the huge African kora harp that's been sitting on my floor for a year. If anyone in DC is looking for such gear, give me a shout, but I'm fixing to get it up on Craigslist sometime this month.
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Dec 4, 2012 13:46
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I noticed a random mandolin G string in one of my favorite shops, yesterday and decided to let the boy combine it with an un-used pickup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COFsf9Lwk0k Best 59 cents ever spent. All of you make a diddley-bow. What other instrument would you be willing to let a five year old play with a tack hammer?
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Dec 8, 2012 18:15
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Butch Cassidy posted:I noticed a random mandolin G string in one of my favorite shops, yesterday and decided to let the boy combine it with an un-used pickup: That looks awesome, I'll save my old violin strings and give it a try. That'd work, right? edit: I don't have a pickup though. Speaking of violins... the parts for the hardanger are starting to come in, I'm thinking that I should spin off my own thread to document the process. Should I do that in GBS or the Musician's Lounge? I'm still kind of new to the forums. platedlizard fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 8, 2012 |
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Dec 8, 2012 21:15
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platedlizard posted:That looks awesome, I'll save my old violin strings and give it a try. That'd work, right? edit: I don't have a pickup though. Definitely not GBS; gibbis is more for general "funny things that happened" or "let's talk about X subject and how cool/lame/funny/scary it is". Musician's Lounge would be better, but honestly I think your best bet would be The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > DIY & Hobbies. In DIY you'll have more people who are interested in tinkering with things, and who know lot about wood, solvents, tools, etc. If you post in DIY, it might not hurt to go to the Violin megathread (or whatever it is) in ML and let them know "hey, if you want to see this project, come to my new DIY thread." We've had a few goons so far who have posted instrument-building projects in DIY to good result and enthusiastic audience. So far as your project, not in the slightest to dissuade you, but the Chinese folks on eBay who sell all the  At $350 it's still not cheap, and has no setup so would need the pegholes tapered, fingerboard fitted, tailpiece, bridge, etc. And with zero finish it all it has no "ground" so you'd have to do a full finish job from the ground up. I would also suspect that it's probably not so much a true Hardanger as a Hardanger-ised violin, which is still legit, but kind of a hybrid instrument. These folks have a decent rep for building pretty serviceable Baroque instruments, but from a background that's very clearly modern Classical. At least one smart-seeming dude opined that their gambas are basically downsized cellos more than true gambas, but again at the price they're awfully competitive and "close enough" to the real thing for most student players. The general impression is that these are factories that got clever about getting away from the herd making cheap-but-serviceable student violins, and tackle the heretofore unfilled market gap for inexpensive baroque instruments. In any case, your project is probably a better place to start, but watching for a cheap deal on an unfinished Chinese Hardanger on eBay in the future might not be a bad followup plan.
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Dec 8, 2012 21:42
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Oh Jesus ebay's dangerous, I go there and someone's selling a 10 string hardanger from the 19th century for about a hundred more (starting bid) than that blank. Looks rather folksy (neck's been spliced... twice, the bridge looks original and hand-carved, tailpiece is...interesting) and might need some work by a real luthier. I can probably add $200 to have it restored, at least. I'd be insane to place a bid. it's on my watch list and I'll probably be  during the last minutes of the auction send help I love old instruments like that, they have so much character.Anyway, yeah, that's another possible step for me.
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Dec 8, 2012 23:46
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platedlizard posted:Oh Jesus ebay's dangerous, I go there and someone's selling a 10 string hardanger from the 19th century for about a hundred more (starting bid) than that blank. Looks rather folksy (neck's been spliced... twice, the bridge looks original and hand-carved, tailpiece is...interesting) and might need some work by a real luthier. I can probably add $200 to have it restored, at least. I'd be insane to place a bid. it's on my watch list and I'll probably be If you get the old one and get it tweaked, definitely use only proper Hardanger strings on it, not violin (which are higher tension).I wonder if the neck issues might be from people trying to put the wrong strings on it. A hybrid can take that, but a proper Hardanger is built smaller/lighter than a violin. I was glancing around to see where online folks discuss Hardangers and d'amores, and turns out this site has a lot of good discussion about sympethic-strung bowed instruments, a lot of good tech talk, etc.: https://www.maestronet.com/forum/. Might well be a good place to get some insight and advice. One thing they mentioned that I hadn't thought about in a while: double-bass with sympathetic strings:  The above is a "Bazantar", patented in the 1990s; 29 sympathetic strings. Here's a pretty impressive clip of him playing this creature, which puts out a lot of sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crSi9IxPfYA. There have been other sympathetic cello-type instruments of course, including a "Hardangcello" and such.  I'll do a post on the viola d'amore a few weeks down the road; got a post on a yet-undiscussed brass instrument to do for this coming week... TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 9, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 02:26
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Bazantar
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Dec 9, 2012 15:24
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platedlizard posted:That looks awesome, I'll save my old violin strings and give it a try. That'd work, right? edit: I don't have a pickup though. Shorter diddley-bows like the one my son helped build have trouble projecting sound, seem to have limited adjustment in pitch, and lack any sustain until you throw a pickup under the string. Then they can be absolutely  If you want to go acoustic, I'd suggest a low E guitar string and a larger liquor bottle, cigar box, or somesuch as a better resonator. I'd go acoustic to avoid buying a pickup and amp. Unless you already have an amp, then just make sure the pickup you buy can handle synthetic strings. Not sure how a regular pickup would take to a steel core string if you are using those. Edit: I hate flautists with a fiery passion and just ordered two fifes... E2: I was talking about bugles today and my wife wants me to get one sometime after Christmas. 
Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Dec 10, 2012 |
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Dec 9, 2012 19:42
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I started my fiddle project. Here's the thread for it.. Exciting/terrible things happened.
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Dec 10, 2012 23:23
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platedlizard posted:I started my fiddle project. Here's the thread for it.. Exciting/terrible things happened. :popcorn: Should be a fun project, and it's been done plenty of times over the last century, and more recently a handful of folks have blogged their conversions over time and gotten results they liked, so glad to see you walking it through. If anyone is looking for a cheap Anglo-Saxon lyre and doesn't mind one that's a little visually funky, there's one going for around $65 shipped on eBay. It's listed with the "Make an Offer" button, so if you can get it under $50 that'd be a decent deal. A new lyre is about $200-250 usually. Granted, this one looks a bit crude and odd sound-holes, but if you want a cheapie lyre it is a standard six-string. It doesn't mention a tuning wrench, but if you search "zither wrench" on eBay you can buy them shipped from Hong Kong for $4 total. In any case, here's the odd lyre: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dulcimer-Ha...=item3a7c663ff4
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Dec 11, 2012 02:59
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TapTheForwardAssist posted::popcorn: Your PM box is full. TL/DR: I am probably ordering a serpent by spring if finances are what they should be and thanks. Edit: Checking on the 4 string you suggested before bed, I have been outbid. Oh well, another time. Ordered a Lee Oscar 1910-C harmonica as a consolation prize 
Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 07:16
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TTFE, I don't know if you covered this, but what brand/variety of Doumbek would you recommend? I want to learn percussion but want to start small..
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Dec 11, 2012 14:18
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These elaborate bowed instruments have me curious about whether anything has been said in the thread yet about the medieval bowed string instrument, the rebec? I bought one from a catalog of folk/antique instruments after noticing how simple an instrument it is. It just has three strings, tuned in fifths like a violin, with no E string. It's held against the chest, not with the chin, so there is only first position for the left hand.
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Dec 11, 2012 14:34
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Brother Jonathan posted:rebec? Any chance you could do a more in-depth write-up? And is there a source for a decent one that doesn't cost the better part of a grand? My wife and I have started putting a little money away each week to buy instruments as we can and that looks like a decent way to have something like a fiddle in the house while still being different. Also, anyone in the thread buy this gadulka yet? http://bulgariana.com/product_info.php?cPath=88_86&products_id=2706&osCsid=0ebea6d3c42f9c518ef122dc4a45c11d Having lost an auction on a dulcimer, I am thinking of rolling the fund into one. Edit: This is the cheapest rebec I have found so far http://www.mid-east.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=REBR&eq=&Tp= And here is a guy who built his own and has a nice link section: http://crab.rutgers.edu/~pbutler/rebec.html#9 And since I noticed it while looking into the rebec, anyone able to comment on the quality of the balalaika from Mid-East? http://www.mid-east.com/items.asp?Tp=&iTpStatus=1&Cc=Bllk&CatName=Balalaika Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Dec 11, 2012 |
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Dec 11, 2012 14:53
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Butch Cassidy posted:Edit: This is the cheapest rebec I have found so far that still seems worth buying: Mid-East has a very, very bad reputation in the harp community, where their products are generally known as "harp-shaped objects". Mid-East harps don't stay in tune; worse, they often fall apart over time because they can't resist string tension. It is possible to get a good Mid-East harp but it's very much the luck of the draw. Knowing this, I wouldn't buy any Mid-East instrument unless somebody in that instrument's fandom suggested it.
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Dec 11, 2012 17:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Knowing this, I wouldn't buy any Mid-East instrument unless somebody in that instrument's fandom suggested it. I was going on some "good enough to get you going without being trash" posts in the balalaika world. If their reputation is that spotty, I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.
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Dec 11, 2012 17:11
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Playing a little catch-up; for several nights running I've planned to do another megapost, but things keep coming up. Last night at the last minute I was invited to go see a lecture at Nat'l Geographic, so a bit delayed. Yes, I would tend to avoid buying from Mid-East Instruments unless the specific item in question was one that a body of musicians recommend as being well-made by MEI. Not that there aren't a few of those, I'm just not sure which ones. For rebec, Paul Butler's site (the Rutgers one you link above) has a ton of links at the end for sellers. It's a bit out of date, but generally useful. For semi-affordable ones, I'd mainly look at Early Music Shop out of the UK; they have soprano rebec kits for about $200, completed about US$350. I reckon I can do a rebec megapost later just to give the historical background and the like; meant to back in summer but we'd got on a roll with new questions then.  There are relatively few clips of rebec on YouTube, though some of that might be a language issue. I find more clips if I check Wikipedia for the names of it in other languages (using the "in other langauges" bar on the left side of the screen to see the foreign titles). But here's one decent example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWA6oTr0vnU So far as choosing rebec just to have around the house: that wouldn't be my inclination for just generic usage. Rebec isn't so dirt cheap that I'd keep one just for kicks, and it is pretty specific to medieval music with not many specific advantages other than historical authenticity. The gadulka, on the other hand, is quite inexpensive, interesting playing style to learn, and has a pretty distinct sound. You are aware that the gadulka is played with the back of the fingers, same as the jouhikko and other bowed lyres, and not pressed down to a fingerboard like the violin and rebec? Bulgariana.com has a generally good rep for a few things (including bagpipes), so I'd feel comfortable buying a gadulka from them (make sure the one you buy includes the peg-turning tool). I bought one of their even simpler kids ones, a 3-string with no sympathetics, a few years back for friends in a different state; I think they just keep it around for kicks, so don't know they have a serious review of it. If you get one, definitely let us know here how it is; we had one or two goons who were fixing to get gadulkas, but haven't checked back in since. Will get to the doumbek question later, as I want time to post some good pics and links, but have to be getting off to work. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Dec 12, 2012 |
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Dec 12, 2012 14:21
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:...For rebec, Paul Butler's site (the Rutgers one you link above) has a ton of links at the end for sellers. It's a bit out of date, but generally useful. For semi-affordable ones, I'd mainly look at Early Music Shop out of the UK; they have soprano rebec kits for about $200, completed about US$350... Rebec isn't so dirt cheap that I'd keep one just for kicks... I wasn't considering one when I started looking into them, but for the price of a soprano kit, I would get a little project with the kids and a neat instrument to kick around. Having spent more on rifles I have less use for, I'll probably end up grabbing one in the spring. That finally makes an instrument I want just because of this thread. And I guess the thread can take partial credit for my serpent and gadulka desires; I had wanted them already, but it presented affordable examples. I guess I'll post a list of the instruments I am looking into getting in rough order of priority (In other words, #1 is happening ASAP and the rest unless I get distracted by other noise makers cutting in line) since many of them seem to be in the spirit of this thread: 1. Serpent: I have wanted one since middle school and the budget is tentatively in place. 2. Gadulka: Debating between a student model with two drones or saving a few more bucks for an entry-level with bunch-o-drones. Probably save more because they aren't that much more expensive than the two drone model. 3. Fairly spartan drumset based around a suitcase bass: Percussion isn't really my thing, but a friend of mine is doing her level best to make sure the kids love it. 4. Bugle in G: Bugles are fun  5. 30 key C/G Anglo concertina: I like the sound and would like to try my hand. Worst case, it doesn't work out and my accordion nerd friends have something to noodle with when they visit. 6. Rebec: Be a neat project even if it doesn't get taken very seriously as an instrument. 7. Euphonium: Played one for a couple of years and I miss it. Floating. Mountain dulcimer: Preferably three-string but four would be cool. Whenever I find myself with some immediate cash leftover from some other budget, I look into them. Not something I would use a whole bunch, but ... 99. Rotary valve trumpet in Bb: Because rotary valve trumpets are the coolest things ever. I'll probably continue only taking brass (mostly trumpet) seriously, a tin whistle as my fun instrument of choice, and the ukulele because I can't help but love the thing while fiddling with the rest as a change of pace. It should make for a neat collection hanging on various walls, give guests things to clang about and stop whining that I don't have cable, and expose the kids to a decent variety of instruments in hopes one speaks to them enough that they stick with it for life. Edit: I still hate flautists, but have to respect their embouchure. This fife is making some terrible sounds I never thought possible.
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Dec 12, 2012 15:08
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Butch Cassidy posted:Edit: I still hate flautists, but have to respect their embouchure. This fife is making some terrible sounds I never thought possible. What a coincidence. After mentioning the rebec, I was going to mention my fife collection. I also play the concert flute and can tell you that the fife is harder. The bore is narrow so that it plays in the upper register and requires a precise embouchure. Also, one has to use the forked fingerings for everything in the third octave. Since a lot music originally written for the fife tends to be reels, jigs, and hornpipes, those odd fingerings take a while to get used to. An easier instrument to try leading up to the fife is the unkeyed Irish flute. It looks like a much larger fife and has a wide bore. While the fife is played in the second and third octaves, the Irish flute is tuned for the first and second, giving it a mellow, resonant sound. It is also easier to sound the notes. Unfortunately, I don't know of any inexpensive ones. The one I have is a Copley & Boegli resin flute that I bought used for about $350.
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Dec 12, 2012 16:57
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Butch Cassidy posted:I guess I'll post a list of the instruments I am looking into getting in rough order of priority (In other words, #1 is happening ASAP and the rest unless I get distracted by other noise makers cutting in line) since many of them seem to be in the spirit of this thread: Regarding the above: - It's not that rebec isn't taken seriously, more that it's a pretty small niche instrument. But if you like it, it's affordable, and one of the easiest bowed instrument kits you can assemble, so nothing wrong with that. - Suitcase kick-drums are cool, though I did once see in Quebec City an act that was just classical guitar and the other guy playing a suitcase with percussion brushes. Improvised percussion is really underrated. - So far as balalaika: decent new ones aren't cheap, and there are a zillion old and tourist ones that aren't pricey but should be carefully checked out for quality before buying. Honestly, balalaika is one of those things I'd mainly suggest if you want to play trad Russian, you need to be visually cool on stage for novelty, or you just randomly find one cheap. Otherwise for the money and effort you'd be better off getting a 3-string cigar-box guitar, or a baglama or setar. - For concertina, if you're willing to do a little simple DIY (the button sleeves fix here), I can get you a used Italian-made starter 20-button GC for $65 plus shipping. I have several of these I haven't gotten around to re-sleeving. - Serpent is drat awesome. For those unfamiliar, there's a writeup at the bottom of this post. And here's a clip of Michel Godard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VbXMQRs_MM. It's like a huge didgeridoo-trumpet with finger-holes:  Dammit, bugle post. I still owe a bugle post. I need to start getting home earlier. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 04:54
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Regarding the above: I more meant that I wouldn't take the rebec seriously and just fart around with it now and then as the mood struck. I can see one of the kids or my wife getting into it, though. Watch me eat crow on this one. And expect a PM about that concertina. I didn't expect my list to get me a deal that quickly. Edit: Elephant Revival is still rocking a washboard and it is awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lUfUWt69c Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 13, 2012 |
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Dec 13, 2012 06:30
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RasputinsGhost posted:TTFE, I don't know if you covered this, but what brand/variety of Doumbek would you recommend? I want to learn percussion but want to start small.. Hmmm... is it that you want to play Middle Eastern music specifically and figured the dumbek was a good start, or are you just wanting any kind of hand drum and figured the dumbek is a good idea because it's physically smaller? Dumbek is a good option in either case, but if you're going for ME music make sure you also consider the frame drums, and if you're just wanting something handy for drum circles also consider a mid-sized ashiko, and/or generally check out the full line of hand drums from Meinl or Remo to see what jumps out at you. But proceeding on the assumption that you've perused your options, dumbeks generally fall into three types: - Turkish - thin metal, distinguishable by big exposed bolts on the outside of the head - Egyptian/Alexandria - heavier aluminum with a vinyl or paint cover, rounded rim that conceals four bolts - Ceramic - for obvious reasons, a noob doesn't want ceramic, especially as they tend to have fixed, natural heads that you tune by holding them close to the fire. Plus even pros break these all the time. This blog has an even better breakdown of these styles: Orientaldancer.net. Have you also checked out Darbukaplayer.com? Between the Turkish and Egyptian, I favour the latter for their nigh-indestructibility and also you don't risk hitting your hand on a bolt if you miss. That said, if you like the look or feel of Turkish, or find a good deal on one, go for it. The Turkish can get dented, since the metal isn't really thick, but the rim is sturdy, and small dents on the body don't matter much. Alexandrians are drat tanks.    So far as price, this is another one of the few times I'd say "just whatever looks reasonable on eBay or an import store". The cheap ones are all much of a muchness, so you can't go too wrong. You do want to make absolutely sure you read the fine print and get the size you want. Too small of a drum is going to have lovely tone and not enough head to get good technique on, so don't buy a tiny child's drum just because it's cute, unless you've personally tried one and liked the sound. A usual Egyptian is around 16"+ in height, maybe a bit smaller for Turkish. Most sellers don't know how to measure head size right, so just go by height measurement. These things used to be dirt cheap in Egyptian import stores; the one in downtown Seattle I used to go to, that was a big jumble of incense, belly-dancing gear, tacky inlaid furniture, etc. had full-size Alexandrias for $30 back in the 1990s. With inflation and maybe Egyptian turmoil, I'm thinking you'll spend at least $50-60, minimum, on a dumbek. I tried searching eBay under just "dumbek" or "doumbek" and was getting even higher prices than that for a proper full-size, but I tried some alternate terms like "darbuka", "darbouka", "tabla" (the Egyptian term, not to be confused with the Indian drum) or even "Egyptian drum", "Alexandria drum" and found some better deals. Use "-mini -small" to weed those child/toy sizes out. So far as jumps out at me, this Turkish looks reasonable for $50 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DARBOUKA-Alexandria-DOUMBEK-darbuka-djembe-DRUM-/321027852168?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abec04788 Note that on eBay there are also Meinl 15" Turkish darboukas for around the same price. This Alexandria is a little pricier than ideal, but this is the kind of thing to look for: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-DO...=item337c75af1f I'd shop around on those ideas, and if there is an Egyptian import store in your town, I'd check that out, or call them, and see if they have any good deals since they cut out the middleman. EDIT: Slightly off the immediate topic, but here's an amazing clip of Iran's equivalent drum, the zarb. Great long duet here; there is just a ton of amazing concert footage of Persian music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4JophfIbRk EDIT2: And what appears to be a Japanese zarb duet. Such an odd place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me9khZE0DS4 TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Dec 14, 2012 |
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Dec 14, 2012 14:35
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Thanks a lot TTFA! edit: I caved and bought a Meinl darbuka for $130. I'll get it by Christmas. Thanks again TTFA. RasputinsGhost fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 15, 2012 |
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Dec 15, 2012 00:02
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RasputinsGhost posted:Thanks a lot TTFA! No worries, what style and size did you get? I've been overall pleased with all the Meinl produts I've messed with, so I expect you'll be pleased with yours. I really need to take some more photos of the music gear I have around the house, particularly as I've been messing around with tuned percussion more. I was fixing to sell my little 25-key toy piano since I don't ever really use it, and then ended up playing it a fair bit over the last week or so. To the point where I'm now actually looking into getting some kind of keyboard instrument. Not so much for performing, but more to teach myself a different aspect of music theory, and maybe some composition. I'm not really drawn to the whole piano scene, so I didn't want to get something of the "electric piano" sort, so I think I'm going to get a small synthesizer instead. The synth thread in NMD:ML suggested the Yamaha CS1X, which is quite affordable used on eBay. Neat sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg9WixVrhTM
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Dec 15, 2012 22:33
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:No worries, what style and size did you get? I've been overall pleased with all the Meinl produts I've messed with, so I expect you'll be pleased with yours. I got this: http://www.amazon.com/Meinl-Aluminum-Doumbeks-2-17-black/dp/B000GBWN7Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355617823&sr=8-1&keywords=meinl+doumbek What really sucked me in was just youtubing doumbek videos. Middle Eastern rhythms are INSANE. RasputinsGhost fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 01:31
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Been planning to do this one for a few weeks, and Butch Cassidy had coincidentally requested it as well, so here comes: Bugle  We haven't covered a lot of brass instruments in this thread (except the serpent which is loving awesome), partially because most internationally popular brass instruments are for art-music (classical, jazz, etc), and the scattering of folk brass instruments are pretty niche. The name "brass instruments" is also a little misleading, since wooden, horn, ceramic, etc. trumpets are also "brass". Wikipedia posted:A brass instrument is a musical instrument that produces sound by sympathetic vibration of air in a tubular resonator in sympathy with the vibration of the player's lips. Brass instruments are also called labrosones, literally meaning "lip-vibrated instruments". Okay, so broadly we're looking at instruments where you buzz your lips, so that includes didgeridoo, conch shell, shofar, etc. Nearly all modern brass instruments have a valve system that can re-route your air column through different lengths of tubing, thus changing the note. The trombone is one of few exceptions, where pushing and pulling the slide shortens and lengthens the route of the air, again changing the note. There are a few folk or archaic brass instruments that include fingerholes instead, such as the serpent and the zink, but for whatever reason that method is pretty uncommon. The modern shiny brass instruments have valves or similar to change notes, but what about those medieval fanfare trumpets, hunting horns, bugles, etc. that are just a tube and mouthpiece, with no holes or valves? For those of you who've picked up tinwhistles, you know when you blow a bit harder, the instrument "jumps" suddenly in pitch. I'm not a math guy, but the sine-wavey explanation for this is on Wiki at Harmonic series. Suffice to say, harder breath, and an instrument will jump to a higher point on the scale, in certain set intervals depending on how its air column is constructed. A tinwhistle jumps an octave on the first harmonic, and a fifth for the next one. On a bugle, it jumps a 5th, a 4th, and two 3d; a C bugle plays the notes C-G-C-E-G. Five notes, that's all you get. What can you even do with that?  Five notes gives you a decent number of possible combinations that are clearly distinct from each other, so at various points in history they were used for military signalling, being easily heard at a distance. Wiki states that, though there are plenty of examples going back to Roman times of military horns/trumpets/bugles, the first documented serious use for complex codes was in the 1750s in what would today be Germany. The British Army picked it up shortly before the American Revolution, and by the Napoleonic era a wide array of complex bugle calls were used by most Western countries to properly organise and maneuver the huge bodies of men in the field through complex group movements.  I haven't been able to pin down exactly when bugles finally fell out of favour; I believe Western countries used them maybe up to World War II, and in Vietnam the North Vietnamese Army used bugles extensively. In the modern day however, the bugle is primarily a ceremonial instrument in the military, though a lot of that role has been taken over by recordings of bugle rather than a live player. Most military bases I've been on would sound a bugle recording over the outdoor PA system for Morning Colors and Evening Colors, and some for Reveille and for Taps. I never personally saw a bugle on deployment in Iraq or Afghanistan, and I think it's a shame that the .mil didn't spring a few bucks to buy some for the larger bases for funeral details, but it appears that a scattering of folks overseas have gotten ahold of bugles for those purposes.  This female airman was apparently the only official US bugler in Iraq in 2008 So far as what a goon would do with a bugle, the options are limited but by no means nonexistent. Some people just like learning bugle calls, and the Boy Scouts have been giving merit badges for that since the beginning; they ditched that badge in like 2010, but had to bring it back due to popular outcry. Even beyond just learning US bugle calls, you can dig up info on the calls of different nations, so there can be some appeal if you have an interest in coding, comm technology, etc. That and like being loud and have somewhere appropriate to be loud. There are probably some limited religious purposes for bugles, though if you're Jewish and want to play some brass you need to look at the shofar (will post on that later). There is a limited amount of classical music with bugle parts, though generally they just choose whatever other brass instrument to cover those, playing just its harmonics as though it had no valves. Further, you could always work bugle into modern art music if you want to get creative, maybe apply some extended techniques to get an even wider array of sounds. Lastly, military stuff. There are a number of civilian ceremonial or reenactment groups, though note a lot of modern "bugle corps" play the "valved bugle" which is pretty much a trumpet variant, not an old school five-note bugle. There is also some demand for volunteer buglers for military veteran funerals. If you have whatever combination of love of brass, patriotism, and/or enjoy funerals, it could be an interesting way to play a role in the community as a bugler. The group for that is Buglesacrossamerica.org, and they can get you in touch with ceremonial details that would welcome a bugler. Note that you don't have to be military to be a volunteer ceremonial bugler, and you don't even have to have a traditional bugle so long as you have a related instrument: quote:Bugler Volunteers can be male or female. They can play a traditional bugle with no valves, or they can perform the ceremony on a Trumpet, Cornet, Flugelhorn, or a 1, 2 or 3 valved bugle. The bugler can be of any age as long as they can play the 24 notes of Taps with an ease and style that will do honor to both the Veterans, their families, and the burial detail performing the service.  As the bugle is not as popular as it used to be, there are only so many new manufacturers out there. The main US retailer is Scoutbugle.com, with some import bugles as low as $150, and some pricier Euro-made ones, and also some related instruments like the valveless field trumpet (also popular for ceremonies). There are also a goodly number of old military bugles of several nationalities up on eBay, but I would do your homework before shopping on those. And while shopping, the general advice appears to be that unlabeled instruments tend to be display pieces, generally made in South Asia, and not particularly playable, so stick to recognised brands if buying on eBay, and to buying from serious musical sellers for new. Note there is also a Bugle YahooGroup; not really busy, but has some good info.  - The Japanese Self Defense Forces playing a number of Japanese bugle calls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRhLcd_Tj9E - Brief news piece on a USAF vet who plays bugle for funerals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DNVtRxD5pY - US Civil War reenactors with bugles and drums; note that having kids so young as musicians is not at all ahistorical, a lot of drummers and buglers in that war weren't even shaving yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I_tAihJ8-Q - Dude demonstrating a "natural trumpet" with no holes or valves. The term is a little confusing because the 20th century "natural trumpet" has vent holes which allow the player to play more than just the harmonic series, but a literal "natural trumpet" is basically a long bugle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmBimcD9JFU
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Dec 16, 2012 22:44
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On the bugle, one fun book that I found online was the U.S. Navy Manual for Buglers. As a Navy veteran, it was a surprise to me that there were ever buglers in the navy as signaling on a vessel at sea has always been with a boatswain's pipe (pronounced "BO-sunz pipe"). It was still used when I was aboard, and according to the original Star Trek television show it will still be used in space. Similar to the bugle is the post horn:  Brass doesn't get simpler than that! And it has even had music written for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_GeIb6TZBs
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Dec 17, 2012 01:35
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:...In the modern day however, the bugle is primarily a ceremonial instrument in the military, though a lot of that role has been taken over by recordings of bugle rather than a live player. Most military bases I've been on would sound a bugle recording over the outdoor PA system for Morning Colors and Evening Colors, and some for Reveille and for Taps. I never personally saw a bugle on deployment in Iraq or Afghanistan, and I think it's a shame that the .mil didn't spring a few bucks to buy some for the larger bases for funeral details, but it appears that a scattering of folks overseas have gotten ahold of bugles for those purposes. Please, please, please, if you can play Taps, actively volunteer for military funerals. I almost had to play my grandfather's funeral when the National Guard sent a proper color guard at the last minute*. I'll let the maker of some of the finest trumpets in the world explain: "We don't produce the field trumpets as a money maker by any means. The more important thing is what they are to be used for. As long as players are performing Taps live, I am a happy man whether they are doing it on a Getzen, a Kanstul, a bugle, a trumpet, or a length of garden hose and a funnel. Anything is better than a recording on a boombox or those wonderful little digital bugles. " - Brett Getzen Taps is a very big deal to military families to the point my stone cold, Semper-Fi, kill-'em-all cousin broke down in tears when he saw the color guard roll in on time for the funeral. He hugged the bugler. The only hug I have ever seen the man give anyone but his daughter. Even when I fell out of music for a few years, Taps was the one thing I practiced regularly. Just show up in a nice shirt and tie, play Taps, stand by quietly and then you can leave. However, the family is almost certain to ask you to the reception as some token of thanks. * Even in small, nothing going on New Hampshire, these guys are busy as poo poo and you are lucky if you can get them to a funeral.
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Dec 17, 2012 03:09
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Brother Jonathan posted:As a Navy veteran, it was a surprise to me that there were ever buglers in the navy as signaling on a vessel at sea has always been with a boatswain's pipe (pronounced "BO-sunz pipe"). It was still used when I was aboard, and according to the original Star Trek television show it will still be used in space. Yeah, I was on a ship for a while in 2003, and they kept blowing that thing over the PA system for announcements and the like. I like traditions, I like music, but I just never really warmed to it. Cool in concept though; here's some kid competing in a piping competition for some Brit cadet's organisation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbK4oaPhSuA&t=1s   quote:Similar to the bugle is the post horn: As further evidence that you can find about drat everything on the internet, there's an entire website for post horn enthusiasts: Coachhorntootlers.com. 
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Dec 17, 2012 14:58
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My wife has decided that she likes learning tin whistle, so I gave her a Feadog in D. She promptly told me that she likes my Clarke better and now I am stuck with the brass thing. Debating learning to deal with it or buying myself another Clarke and giving the Feadog to the girl. Bah, the answer is obviously buy myself a new Clarke, keeping the Feadog for a chirpier sound when I want it and giving the girl her own since there really isn't a reason to not have a pile-o-whistles in the house. Edit: And now my wife wants to try her hand at recorder. We should just busk as a hilarious family street band of cheap woodwinds and random trumpet voluntaries. Edit edit: Still suck with the fife. A friend is a band director, so I am going to break down and ask her to show me a decent embouchure the next time I see her. And she will mock me after all the years of poo poo we gave the flute section. Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Dec 18, 2012 |
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Dec 18, 2012 16:56
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If anyone else is thinking about a tin whistle, goingtoday.com has a Feadog tin whistle in D along with a book and CD for $19.99 plus $5 shipping until midnight EST.
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Dec 19, 2012 02:18
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BigHustle posted:If anyone else is thinking about a tin whistle, goingtoday.com has a Feadog tin whistle in D along with a book and CD for $19.99 plus $5 shipping until midnight EST. Just got my Meinl doumbek/darbuka and love the poo poo out of it. Thanks again, TTFA!
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Dec 22, 2012 06:54
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RasputinsGhost posted:Just got my Meinl doumbek/darbuka and love the poo poo out of it. Thanks again, TTFA! Good deal, hope to see some YouTube noob coverage once you digest some of the online tutorials. Meinl is a little pricier than some of the other options, but with the brand name you get some quality assurance, ease of finding replacement parts (standardised fit of spare heads, etc) and holds value better. For a lot of the various "world drums" I'd generally advise starting players to get something reputable brand name/mass-produced just to decrease the odds of getting a lemon. With some experience, you can heft up some unlabled wooden dejmbe with goatskin head at a pawnshop and say "yeah, this thing plays great, plenty of life left in the head, gets good overtones, worth easily $150 or so", but starting out it's just easier to buy something blessed off on by a reputable label. For mass-produced drums, I've really been pleased with Meinl and Remo; LP Percussion I don't know as well since they do more Latin stuff. Speaking of such, ran across a neat cajón in Portland (OR) today: Apple Music had a cosmetically scratched floor model Meinl conga cajon for $99, which I probably would've bought if it weren't impractical to take it back to DC. Glancing online, a few stores have them on clearance for $170. Over a metre tall, internal snare efffect that can be turned on and off  Cool clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB9t2e6s6z4 For contraste, cajon version of a double-headed bata drum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIN1Hp-YfjA I checked out a few shops in Portland, and it can be hard to find actual cool obscure instruments in brick-and-mortar stores. In Portland, Trade Up music was dang cool; more rock/indie focused, but lots of good used gear, and a solid $50 used conga I would've picked up if I lived local. Also this awesome lap-steel:  The equivalent shop to Trade Up for Seattle is Trading Musician, which I believe is by some of the same people originally, and much the same "packed to rafters with vintage and beater stuff"; largely modern stuff like electrics, pedals, amps, but some good acoustic, experimental and exotic. For folk stuff, some of the top US shops that I know of are Dusty Strings (Seattle), Mandolin Brothers (NYC), Elderly Instruments (Lansing MI), House of Musical Traditions (DC), and Gryphon Stringed Instruments (San Francisco). Note that for most of these these are good at Western folk instruments (banjos, dulcimers, autoharps, tinwhistles, etc), but for really exotic non-Western things (stuff that hasn't been integrated into Western music) you have to go somewhere more specialised, like the Ali Akbar College of Music's in-house shop (about 30m north of San Francisco) for Indian instruments. RasputinsGhost's doumbek reminds me I haven't done a megapost for percussion in a bit, so I figured out a cool and underrated one I'll look to post on this coming week. Plus I also bought a junk guitar at Trade Up and converted it to a slide, so maybe I'll post pics or an unskilled video of that. Took me $15 in parts and strings to convert an otherwise unplayable guitar into a decent Hawaiian-style lapsteel.
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Dec 24, 2012 01:56
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Gryphon is actually in Palo Alto. They're good dudes and know their stock; they'll let you play anything in the store. (My guitarist friend was demonstrating for me the difference in tone between a vintage Martin and modern reproductions.)
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Dec 24, 2012 17:24
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Gryphon is actually in Palo Alto. They're good dudes and know their stock; they'll let you play anything in the store. (My guitarist friend was demonstrating for me the difference in tone between a vintage Martin and modern reproductions.) In fairness, most of those cities are approximate; HMTrad is technically in Takoma Park, but since its within subway range of DC, I just say DC. But yeah, Gryphon is really slick for anything bluegrass, old-timey, blues, etc. Really exotic is harder to fine reliably, though I have noted that exotic percussion seems to wander easier and freer, maybe just because basic percussion skills are more universal. There are some notable exceptions though, especially with tuned percussion. A good conga player could probably play the heck out of a doumbek, but a bongo player can't necessarily figure out tabla since the latter is quite complicated tonally. Speaking of which, Yiggy, would you be up to write a post or two on Indian percussion? I'd think one megapost on the mridangama/mrdanga/pakhawaj family would be cool, and maybe one on the dhol/i/ak family? I'd be happy to do them, but wanted to give you the floor as the India expert. Been a while since a megapost, so here's one on an instrument family that's unfairly gotten a bad rep in Western music: Tambourine The word itself just means "little drum", a derivative of /tambur/ which is a drum-type word from Spain to Arabia to Iran. In its modern usage it means either a small frame-drum with jingles in the rim, or sometimes just a crescent or circular frame, headless, with jingles. European drum history tends to be a little obscure, but in a lot of cases you can't go wrong guessing that a given drum is Arab-influenced. Europe doesn't have a lot of native frame-drums, so I'd generally guess the Western tambourine is a take-off of the Mediterranean/Arabic/Persian instrument. As noted earlier in the thread, Europeans just weren't huge into drums in popular music for a lot of history; my vague impression is that's a combination of wiping out pre-Christian traditions, as well as limiting drums to military use, both no unlike how African drums were treated by slaveholders in the New World.  In any case, the tambourine had some limited use in the US for brass band-type music (almost certainly an influence of Ottoman music), but came into its own in the mid-20th century as the instrument you just chuck at the lead guitarist's girlfriend who wants to be in the band. Basically an instrument you give to people whose skills extend just beyond clapping along with the rhythm. This is really a drat shame, because the wider tambourine family has a long tradition of actual skill and talent.  Urban Dictionary defines "tambourine girl" as: "cute chick that gets hired to make a band look better, she ussualy can't play for poo poo, but that does not matter if she looks good on stage, usually a girlfriend of the bands sax or guitar player". The Onion mocks it with You Must Romance the Music Out of The Tambourine. Well and good, but what's to be done go get some cool tambourine playing going on? I'll use a slightly different format here since I'll be addressing a few different takes on the instrument. I'll go over serious musical traditions (mainly Latin and Arabic) that use a relatively standard tambourine, such as that you could buy whatever beater used one and apply some more skilled strokes, then I'll cover some larger tambourine-style drums from the Persian world, and then India. For getting the most out of a regular-type tambourine, I'd look into the YouTube tutorials for the Brazilian pandeiro and for the Arabic riq. There are a goodly number of tutorials and demonstrations of playing online for such instruments: - A good 7min lesson on pandeiro for samba: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEV4ELDLt1I - An impressive Egytpian riq solo. Yes, a tambourine solo that doesn't suck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAshV_fkzK0 - A really slick pandeiro solo; note the drier sound of jingles on the Brazilian instrument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpZaGJtkZYM - Good intro on basic riq strokes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlWEAm4AUTU  A pandeiro tends to be slightly different in having a really shallow frame and drier jingles, and are generally tunable; you can get a Torelli for around $50, Meinl starting at $60, or you can make do with a standard tambourine if you want to try a variety of styles before focusing. For a riq, I generally figure you can do riq stuff with any decent tamborine; there are tambourines that are more aesthetically Egyptian-ish, but I'm not aware of a huge difference in construction. For standard tambourines, most of the really cheap stuff on eBay is more of the noisemaker variety, but there are a few reasonable-looking cheapies, like Remo's "economy tambourine" for $15-25 in a variety of sizes. I'd be wary of vintage unless you're willing to re-head a tacked head by hand (which isn't necessarily difficult, but adds some hassle) if the old leather turns out to be dead. If you want to go more deluxe on riq, spring for a tunable head tambourine; and in the $50-100 category Remo has their actual "riq" line, with synth heads patterned to look like trad fishskin and internally-tunable, which is cool since it avoids having the large metal external brackets. I would, however, avoid the fancy mosaic inlaid Egyptian riqs, which are likely wallhangers, though there are some Egyptian-brand tunable 9" $40 riqs that look respectable.  For clarity, when we says that drums are "tunable", that means the tension of the drumhead can be adjusted to change the inherent pitch and overtones of the drum. Some styles place more emphasis on pitch than others, but even on less tonal drumming forms it can still be useful to adjust the tension to get the sound and feel you want. On frame drums tuning is done either by tightening metal brackets on the outside, or some modern frame drums have fancy internal tensioners that leave the outside streamlined, and often are made to uniformly adjust the whole rim instead of having to keep the brackets balanced. A fixed-head isn't necessarily a dealbreaker from a reputable maker, though I'd avoid fixed skin heads since those do change with time and climate and when fixed can only be adjusted by tweaked the temperature and humidity of the skin. Old-school drummers would carefully splash water on leather drumheads between tunes, or hold them up to a flame to warm and dry them. If you're shopping around, tunable is a better long-term decision.  If you want to play along with gospel, 60s rock, brass band, etc. then by all means get a headless tambourine and bounce it off your palm and thigh. Totally valid musical style, though I'll be pedantic and say a headless tambourine is more properly termed a sistrum than any drum-type name. Nothing wrong with it, just that a lot of folks don't grasp that there are way more complex styles practised on such instruments. Dang, this is already getting a little long. And this first category is the most specifically tambourine-ish, and the next two are further relatives, so I'll cover the Persian daf and the Indian kanjira a bit down the road. Hand percussion can be a really rewarding way to get into music, particularly if you really enjoy dance, rhythm, and motion, or want to get into music but aren't as inclined to learn melody and harmony issues yet. In the meantime, check out DrumDojo.com which has some good reading materials. The drummer David Kuckhermann has some [url=http://www.framedrums.net/instruments/riq/]decent riq materials on his site[url] EDIT: I'd like to commission a new banner ad for the thread, so if you have basic banner-designing skills, let me know and I can send you some music gear. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Dec 27, 2012 |
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Dec 26, 2012 02:59
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:EDIT: I'd like to commission a new banner ad for the thread, so if you have basic banner-designing skills, let me know and I can send you some music gear. 
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Dec 26, 2012 04:43
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:my bajo quinto Tell me more...
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Dec 26, 2012 11:06
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BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:Tell me more... Not too much to tell, I have a Lucida bajo quinto (low guitar with five courses of doubled steel strings). Electro-acoustic, hard shell case. I'm not home right now, but I recall it has a big of glue slop from putting extra scratchplates on it, and I'd need to check it to see if it has any other concerns. It's kinda cool, but I really don't use it, and it with the case is rather large. I really don't want to ship it because it's huge, but in the DC area I'd sell it for the $140 I have into it. For those outside the DC area, glancing at eBay, Oscar Schmidt and a few other makes of bajo sexto sell for under $200 pretty regularly, and some fixer-upper quintos/sextos go for under $100 shipped. Here's the megapost on bajos: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3415486&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=20#post404779628 Folksinger and goddam national hero Tim Eriksen plays a wide variety of instruments (banjo, dulcimer, fiddle), and in the last few years has migrated to the bajo sexto in a really weird tuning to fill most all of his guitar needs. Really takes advantage of the chorus effect of doubled strings, and the low droniness of the bajo's deep range.  When I get back home I'll be going through gear and figuring out what to sell since I'm getting a little bit of new gear and want to clear out the clutter a bit. Probably going to pick up a Yamaha synthesizer so I can do some music theory drills with the keyboard, though long-term I'd rather have either a clavichord or an altkeyboard. Continuing the tambourine bit above, I'll briefly cover an instrument since we referenced it in the large post on frame drums of the Islamic world. Daf  Drum terms in a lot of Asia get really unclear due to folks using different names for essentially (or entirely) the same drum, or to the opposite side using really similar names for quite different drums. At least in the West we appear to have roughly standardised on the Iranian term daf to describe a large round frame-drum with jingles in the rim. Daf jingle are usually very dry and rattly, made up of small chain links or similar rather than zils (the little cymbals).  Particularly in Iran and areas neighbouring, frame drums are a serious virtuosic instrument. The basic unjingled Perso-Arabic drum tends to be labeled a tar in the west, and the same with a snare as bendir. Of course, you can also play these styles on any general frame drum (and there are some good inexpensive Remo ones online), though the specifically Middle Eastern-style ones tend to have thumbhole or hand cutouts that help hold them. Again for beginners I'd stick to major commercial brands, and synthetic heads, so again not unsuprisingly back to Remo and Meinl. Meinl makes only fixed-head daf, but at around $80 not a bad price. The Remos are a bit pricey, though for that $160 you do get a huge 21" head, albeit fixed; for $140 you can get a tunable 14" Remo "dayereh" which is much the same thing. If you like the concept but balk at the price, shop around and you can find a Remo 16" basic frame drum for $40 (cheaper used) or $70 for an enormous 22", and then hit the hardware store to do a little drill and screw work to install some chain links yourself. It's really interesting to watch the specific daf technique in the videos below, as there's an art to lifting the drum slightly to get the jingles going, which is quite different from standard frame-drum technique. If you're interested in Middle Eastern percussion, there is a small forum maybe worth checking out: http://mideastpercussion.tribe.net/ . These frame drums are really under-used in Western music, and have a lot of potential to make an impact on an audience. - Long solo showing a lot of jingle work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADLPtyLorWg - Brief instructional clip from Remo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzcVZVeyCjQ - Daf backing up setar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLNaUbo9Sw - Description of technique and playing from an Iranian woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SZSCf9mVMg TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Dec 28, 2012 |
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Dec 27, 2012 20:49
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Dude I can't afford any kind of bajo right now, please stop posting about them.
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Dec 28, 2012 05:16
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I'll be happy to do an Indian Percussion post but I'm going to be out of town a little bit longer until next week. If you don't mind waiting I'll throw it together then.
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Dec 28, 2012 15:41
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