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Shiny clean block back from the machine shop!   Shiny pistons! (Don't worry I installed those oil squirters in the background... just forgot to take pictures)  Let's get to work. Dipping the rods and pins in oil:  After connected with a couple snap rings, we check the new piston rings for end gap clearance:  One of the oil rings sitting in the cylinder:  Perfectly in spec x16. Thanks Honda!  Top compression ring on:  All rings on and clocked:  About to install the pistons with shiny new lovely Harbor Freight piston ring compressor:  Worked well enough:     Damnit I forgot to take the rod cap off:  Which of these is not like the others?  With that out of the way, time to install the crank. I'm using the same main bearings as there's nothing wrong with them. Might as well plastigauge just to be sure though. Block with bearings fit:  Crank carefully set on them:  Lower block with bearings fit:  Whaddya know, fits perfect:  Shiny new main bolts!  Smush:   All of them were perfectly in spec:  With that I coated the bearing surfaces with assembly lube and installed the crank. Turns beautifully by hand:  Bonus shiny clean head pic: 
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Jan 14, 2013 15:18
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Looking good. So does a home rebuilt motor help or hurt resale? Usually people do it for cars they intend to keep. Are you going to put a few hundred miles on it to make sure everything is up to spec?
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Jan 14, 2013 16:44
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Is it normal to have casting numbers on top of the piston like that? never seen it before. nice work though.
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Jan 14, 2013 18:18
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meatpimp posted:Looking good. So does a home rebuilt motor help or hurt resale? Usually people do it for cars they intend to keep. Are you going to put a few hundred miles on it to make sure everything is up to spec? I have no idea if it helps or hurts resale. I plan to use as many automotive buzzwords in the ad as I can without using the word "rebuild" though and pass it in a good light. The word "Blueprinted" will come up a lot I'm sure. I'll probably also give them the option to see all these pictures of the Definitely driving it around for a good thousand miles at least. I'll leisurely sell it after that.
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Jan 14, 2013 18:41
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Adiabatic posted:The word "Blueprinted" will come up a lot I'm sure. I'll probably also give them the option to see all these pictures of the It doesn't really appear you know what "blueprinted" means in terms of an engine build. That's OK, neither will the people looking at your car.
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Jan 14, 2013 22:03
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I was always under the assumption it meant taking everything to stock clearance and stock torque as defined by the manufacturer. Could you let me know what I'm missing here?
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Jan 14, 2013 23:58
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I've always taken it to mean you're getting away from a 'range' of tolerances and trying to build to as close to the 'ideal' specification as possible. For example, a cylinder bore might be 4.000" +/- .002" - you may want to get all of your bores as close to 4.002 as possible if you want a little less pressure on the rings / some infinitely small additional displacement, rather than having one cylinder at 4.001 and another at 3.998.
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Jan 15, 2013 00:30
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Adiabatic posted:I was always under the assumption it meant taking everything to stock clearance and stock torque as defined by the manufacturer. Could you let me know what I'm missing here? Blueprinting means that it was built to a planned specification, i.e. not bringing a pile of parts to the machine shop and saying "take off what you need to to make it work." This could be the factory specs (which yours does not conform to if you've decked factory parts), an aftermarket race shop spec, your own spec, etc. But it was a detailed spec made beforehand. People seem to consistently get this confused with balancing....which could be part of your blueprint specifications, but is not "blueprinting" in and of itself.
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Jan 15, 2013 00:54
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There was no decking involved. Then again there would have been if it required it. I suppose I went into this with factory specs in mind aside from a .020 rod bearing grind. Not sure if I can legitimately call that blueprinting but 
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Jan 15, 2013 03:07
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Dick Diggler posted:Is it normal to have casting numbers on top of the piston like that? never seen it before. nice work though. Every Honda motor I've worked on has them on the pistons.
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Jan 15, 2013 14:09
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Holy poo poo more RVA goons? I had no idea. I'm on the Northside in the Rosedale area. Maybe we should lease a workshop to share. There are some pretty crazy huge places available for a reasonable price. http://richmond.craigslist.org/prk/3490256465.html http://richmond.craigslist.org/prk/3396566874.html <--- this one looks awesome.
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Jan 15, 2013 16:35
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No joke, I've been looking for a place with a small living quarters and huge garage either close to downtown or directly south of it. Let me know if you come across anything. If you need incentive this directly correlates to the time it takes me to buy a deuce-and-a-half.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:47
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Charles city is out there, probably why that's so cheap.
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Jan 16, 2013 05:15
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V8 MGB GT in today's BaT: http://bringatrailer.com/2013/01/15/v8-rocket-1970-mgb-gt-racer/ Practical? Daily? Oh...
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Jan 16, 2013 14:55
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Moxie Omen posted:Charles city is out there, probably why that's so cheap. Only like 30 minutes from downtown. Take 64 to 106. Seriously that space looks amazing for that price. I'm tempted to rent it myself.
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Jan 16, 2013 15:24
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http://richmond.craigslist.org/off/3549893698.html Ashland flexspace, 2000sq/ft for $1183? Hmm. http://richmond.craigslist.org/off/3549596743.html 4600ft of shop space WITH LIFTS!!! on the rear end end of broad st, who knows what they want per ft though. Moxie Omen fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 16, 2013 |
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Jan 16, 2013 19:04
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Motronic posted:Blueprinting means that it was built to a planned specification, i.e. not bringing a pile of parts to the machine shop and saying "take off what you need to to make it work." This could be the factory specs (which yours does not conform to if you've decked factory parts), an aftermarket race shop spec, your own spec, etc. But it was a detailed spec made beforehand. It's commonly used to refer to an engine that is nominally "standard", because your race regs or whatever say you can't modify it, but they don't say you can't make drat sure it's as good as that can possibly be. It's making certain that, in the internal combustion version of Twins, you've got yourself an Arnold Schwarzenegger rather than a Danny DeVito.
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Jan 16, 2013 21:30
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Moxie Omen posted:http://richmond.craigslist.org/off/3549893698.html That second one will go for several thousand a month, minimum. More if it is zoned and in a condition to be used as a commercial auto repair shop.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:08
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My dad used to race formula V and loved to tell stories about driving all over just to find the loosest set of stock parts he could find. All within tolerance so no one could accuse him of cheating.
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Jan 16, 2013 22:11
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That's awesome. So who here knows how the gently caress I sort out the Honda bearing colors when I just ground my rod journals down .020in? I have 2's on the rods (including the new one) and B's on the block, across all cylinders. Which is lucky as gently caress considering the mains are like 2-2-4-3-3 or something crazy. EDIT: Also what the hell is an "oil orifice"? This professional looking site told me to fill the "oil orifice" with oil before installing the head in order to assist with priming the oil pump, but google searches are vague at best. Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 16:23
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I believe they're referring to the restrictor that prevents the oil system just hosing down the inside of the cam cover full-blast. It's also called an oil control jet sometimes - if you pour oil down the passage it goes into, you're effectively backfilling the oil system between the pump and the head.
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Jan 17, 2013 18:43
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Awesome, that makes sense. I found this thing about the rod bearing clearance:  So if I am at a 2 on all rods and a B on all crank journals, and I went down .020 on the crank journals, I'm basically either hosed or hey let's try blue I guess. Black would be too loose I figure. Thoughts?
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Jan 18, 2013 17:07
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Blue is probably best. Considering the colors are spread diagonally across the table, Honda probably considers the radius as inconsequential. Good luck bud.
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Jan 20, 2013 06:10
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Ok, I just want to ask a really stupid question here: When you talk of going "down .020 on the crank journals", are you metric or imperial, and are you taking it off the radius or the diameter? Because if someone said that to me, my assumption would be "Reduce the diameter by a total of twenty thousandths of an inch (i.e. 0,508 millimetres)", and I think you mean 0,020mm (.0008") off the diameter. First thing is, I wouldn't worry about their letter and number designations. Measure the actual diameters of each rod and crank journal and take it from there. Your four "B" rods could be a mix of 46,008 to 46,016 and your journals a mix of 42,984 to 42,992 and you need to know exactly what that mix is in order to make a good assessment of where you stand for being able to remove metal and/or select new bearings. They also might have some slight ovality to them, it depends exactly what they allow for in their design tolerances.
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Jan 20, 2013 17:01
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I had a machine shop grind .020 inches off the diameter of the journals. I'll definitely go mic them next time I'm out there.
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Jan 21, 2013 01:15
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If you had twenty thou taken off, I don't think the two thou total variance you can cover with the stock bearing range is going to be much help...
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Jan 21, 2013 16:12
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InitialDave posted:If you had twenty thou taken off, I don't think the two thou total variance you can cover with the stock bearing range is going to be much help... Wait are you suggesting the chart is in millimeters? ...poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2013 17:02
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It does say micrometers in the top right. "µm"
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Jan 21, 2013 18:15
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Adiabatic posted:Wait are you suggesting the chart is in millimeters?  While they haven't actually put a unit notation on the tolerance, the dimension it's tolerancing is metric, so unless they are experimenting with some extremely peculiar drugs, the tolerance values are also metric. Besides, if the values were imperial, your total tolerance window would be 48 thou, which is insane.
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Jan 21, 2013 18:26
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InitialDave posted:Besides, if the values were imperial, your total tolerance window would be 48 thou, which is insane. And if he had the crank taken down .020", it would rev to 9000rpm... once. But aren't those numbers too tight for normal production manufacturing? Keeping a .020mm seems awfully tough, or maybe I am not up on current manufacturing tolerances. meatpimp fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 18:32
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Honda's cars are entirely metric. Well, except for maybe the wheel diameter. And I suppose the speedometer depending on where you live. But everything else is metric. After all, lets not forget: 
whiskas fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 20:33
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meatpimp posted:And if he had the crank taken down .020", it would rev to 9000rpm... once. But aren't those numbers too tight for normal production manufacturing? Keeping a .020mm seems awfully tough, or maybe I am not up on current manufacturing tolerances. Yeah this is bad. I've since found one place that has .020" undersized rod bearings, but they're from Rock Auto and with the stock tolerances having a range of 48 microns (that is legitimately insane...) I'm unsure if I really want to go with "one size fits all" undersized bearings. I hate to turn this into a 14" dick thread but work is loving me right over currently and this little bump in the road is costing me some sanity. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. EDIT: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/p...CFYXLtAodS1AA0A WHY DOES IT SAY FORD S2000?! http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-01-02-03...617b01c&vxp=mtr Oh god I'm desperate why am I loving looking at Ebay Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 20:35
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Adiabatic posted:Yeah this is bad. I've since found one place that has .020" undersized rod bearings, but they're from Rock Auto and with the stock tolerances having a range of 48 microns (that is legitimately insane...) I'm unsure if I really want to go with "one size fits all" undersized bearings. I'd say the only viable option would be to get a low-mileage junkyard motor and plug it back in. Honda has some pretty sophisticated manufacturing processes and I'd be surprised if you can do a garage rebuild of that particular motor with any success. I really want to see if it works or not, though... so disregard this and put it back together!
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Jan 21, 2013 20:44
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meatpimp posted:I'd say the only viable option would be to get a low-mileage junkyard motor and plug it back in. Honda has some pretty sophisticated manufacturing processes and I'd be surprised if you can do a garage rebuild of that particular motor with any success. I really want to see if it works or not, though... so disregard this and put it back together! I'd buy a new crank before I did that. $900 for the crank vs $3500 for the short block vs $4k for a used junkyard motor.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:51
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whiskas posted:Honda's cars are entirely metric. Well, except for maybe the wheel diameter. And I suppose the speedometer depending on where you live. But everything else is metric. You forgot the seat and seatbelt hardware 
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Jan 21, 2013 21:09
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I'd buy the rockauto bearings and see if they get your the clearance you need, what do they cost? I mean, worst case you're out however much they cost plus the price of a new crank instead of just the price of a new crank and the proper factory bearings.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:00
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The Ford S2000 thing probably means they're for a Pinto engine, as in the kind used in the S2000 racing class. Why does the size given on those eBay bearings not seem to correlate with what's on that chart? Ok, right, STOP. Sit on your hands for a bit, calm down, and measure what you actually have. Then see if you can find bearings that will fit and give you the right running clearance.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:09
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kastein posted:I'd buy the rockauto bearings and see if they get your the clearance you need, what do they cost? I mean, worst case you're out however much they cost plus the price of a new crank instead of just the price of a new crank and the proper factory bearings. They're like $30 for all of them shipped. That makes me uneasy in and of itself, but I went ahead and ordered some just to check the clearance and see if that'll work. InitialDave posted:Ok, right, STOP. Sit on your hands for a bit, calm down, and measure what you actually have. Then see if you can find bearings that will fit and give you the right running clearance. Right, okay. I'm throwing the aforementioned $30 at it, and plastigauging to see if I get lucky with the fit. When that fails I will measure them with some quality mics and see what my options are. Worse comes to worst I will pony up the $900 for a new crank and use OEM Honda bearings according to its stamps and the chart. Does anyone know where I might buy "custom" sized bearings? I already looked at ACL and they only offer STD and .25MM undersized, no .50MM. I would have absolutely went that route if they had them. Any other quality 3rd party bearing manufacturers I should look into?
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Jan 22, 2013 16:11
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Vandervell? However, making custom bearings can be pretty pricey. I would find a specialist in bearings, and explain the situation to them. You need the stereotypical weirdy-beardy who can practically cross-reference things in their head, give them your current sizes (and tell them you're willing to shave some metal if required), and let them have at it. They can probably find something that will fit. InitialDave fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 18:49
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I've been thinking about this quite a bit, and while that information is great I'm not sure I want to go that route. The sure-fire way is getting a new crank and buying OEM bearings to match it to my block. It's $900 to have the precision that Honda meant to have in something that revs this high, as I'm feeling more and more like I'm above my comfort level. I think this is the rational way to go about it. That all depends on these undersized bearings coming out bad, though. We'll make the decision after I test them out.
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Jan 23, 2013 15:41
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