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Fedule posted:Actually, I think that was just a sudden outbreak of common sense. When mods edit stuff you get the "somebody hosed around with this message" note. That's giving Redkun too much credit. He grudgingly made edits after all the "dude what the gently caress" responses, spoiled things MORE when he tried to justify why he posted it, and in the end fell back on the classic "I don't see how I did anything wrong, tell me and I'll stop" whining after people told him what was wrong. So yeah, anyway, with the twins it's not hard to see the twisted dynamic they've got going. I'm willing to bet Junko always had Mukuro under thumb, Mukuro ran off to become a mercenary to get away and empower herself, but ultimately came crawling back and did whatever was asked of her to make up for it. The whole mercenary thing was a red herring of sorts to make you think Mukuro was going to be some sort of super badass who faked her death, but nope.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:14
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Two Inch Bee posted:The way he phrased it (starting with "I've got it!" and concluding with "...Or something") makes me think it's not an assertion of truth. It's just Monobear facetiously throwing out a theory. Monobear did that in the last game to play with everyone's minds. I'm pretty sure that's the case here. The best thing to do is just take what he says at face value for now. We've got no reason to believe he's lying and Monomi didn't give us any reason to assume he was lying either. Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe Monobear, since he's more open and less shady than Monomi is. fake edit: Also, I'm really glad I missed those spoilers. I hope they weren't that bad for some people here, since it'd be a shame to have this ruined and having to sit out of the speculation. e: Holy poo poo did I write this poorly. I'll re-visit this theory later, but I'll be avoiding writing posts when I just get up from now on. That's hindsight for ya. CrashScreen fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Feb 9, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 16:38
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Man DR0 just leaves me more and more confused with every update. I'm going to need someone to summarize it for me once it's over because I think I'm only getting about half of what's going on anymore.
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Feb 8, 2013 16:42
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Requested_Username posted:Pretty sure you can chalk that one up to slowbeef. Whenever lots of quotes are edited in the exact same way it's usually because of a mod stepping in. Ah, then I thank Slowbeef for taking the spoiler hit for the rest of us. Although I have a feeling he's gotten that a lot with these threads.
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Feb 8, 2013 17:41
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CrashScreen posted:Monobear did that in the last game to play with everyone's minds. I'm pretty sure that's the case here. You'd think the second controller would know better than to act like this after the very public execution of the first.
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Feb 8, 2013 17:49
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I'm still going with the "Madarai was a SHSL Ninja" theory. I assume his suddenly slipping free of the trap while Ryouko thought he was still pinned under there was him using kawarimi (that thing ninjas do in anime where they substitute an inanimate object, like a log, for themselves as a distraction) or something. As for why Ryouko didn't seem to recognize Junko's face or identify her as the crazy lady from earlier, I assume it was because she'd already forgotten what she looked like due to her anterograde amnesia. As for Junko "not recognizing" who she'd just killed, I think it was more her just spouting some crazy narrative because she's insane and enjoys hearing herself talk.
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Feb 8, 2013 17:56
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Junko strikes me as exactly the sort of person who would unreliably narrate her own life in her head just in case she was the subject of a story.
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Feb 8, 2013 17:59
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Tesseraction posted:Ah, then I thank Slowbeef for taking the spoiler hit for the rest of us. Although I have a feeling he's gotten that a lot with these threads. I just hope it wasn't anything too major as that would utterly destroy my enthusiasm for this game.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:28
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I just hope it wasn't anything too major as that would utterly destroy my enthusiasm for this game. It wasn't crucial to the plot of either game or Zero, but it was still spoiling something that might be shown later on.
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Feb 8, 2013 18:41
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RefinedUndefined posted:It wasn't crucial to the plot of either game or Zero, but it was still spoiling something that might be shown later on. It actually does spoil Zero a little bit - I think most people who know about that thing that was spoiled don't realize how much of it is based on things that were first shown in Zero (and we haven't seen yet).
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Feb 8, 2013 19:02
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Fedule posted:Junko strikes me as exactly the sort of person who would unreliably narrate her own life in her head just in case she was the subject of a story. "If I'm going to have a backstory, I prefer it be multiple choice!" Reminds me, have the creators mentioned anything about the Joker being an inspiration for Junko? If they're willing to name drop the Master of Magnet they should be aware of him, and Junko really gives off a similar unbalanced vibe.
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Feb 8, 2013 19:10
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orenronen posted:It actually does spoil Zero a little bit - I think most people who know about that thing that was spoiled don't realize how much of it is based on things that were first shown in Zero (and we haven't seen yet). Okay, I didn't know that it did spoil Zero slightly. Good thing I barely remember the details of it. What was being spoiled, not the spoilers earlier, that is. RefinedUndefined fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 19:17
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Can I just say, though, that - leaving aside the annoyance at some rear end in a top hat posting spoilers - that I am drat proud of how everyone reacted to all that? Sure, there was all the usual stuff, like the nice swift mod response (which included edits) and how no-one that I saw quoted the spoiler, but the real wonderful thing here was that people have gotten so attuned to impending spoilers that several people who actually read the post still can't actually remember the spoiler. We have a good thing going here.
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Feb 8, 2013 19:59
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I just wanna say that I actually edited out the spoiler myself when I quoted him. I'm just nice like that 
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Feb 8, 2013 20:48
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I hope the novel explains why, now that we know Junko is SHSL Despair or at least its avatar for the first game, how she managed to become friends with everyone and set them up when she's acting totally loonytoons every time we've seen her in the novel. True, maybe she only acted that way when she was free to do so and could get away with it, but that kind of insanity can be hard to mask, especially in a school made up of exceptional kids who would probably be more prone to noticing something like that than the average bunch of high schoolers.
Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 8, 2013 |
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Feb 8, 2013 21:10
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Fedule posted:but the real wonderful thing here was that people have gotten so attuned to impending spoilers that several people who actually read the post still can't actually remember the spoiler. Or have really poor short term memory, which is fine as well! Now regarding the latest update on Zero, we finally have Junko around being... well ... Junko. But after reading that update I have the ugly feeling that we are half way through the whole thing, just a hunch.
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Feb 8, 2013 21:14
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Enough about the spoiler, sheesh!
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Feb 8, 2013 21:22
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slowbeef posted:Enough about the spoiler, sheesh! I guess if we keep going on about the spoiler we'll ... spoil the thread?! Jeek posted:That brings up an important point - Junko is supposed to be a one-of-a-kind lunatic, which makes it really weird that Monobear 2.0 follows her formula so closely. He has thus far played so many of the trump cards Junko had in DR1 (murdering(?) someone to make a point, mention of a traitor, memory loss, extra student) he is almost a parody of her. He seems like he's just mocking her method at this point, to be honest. He's a lot more aggressive though, and I notice he doesn't even laugh like "Upupu" anymore, minus his introduction. I wouldn't say he's trying to copy Junko's Monobear at all. In fact, the things he's played so far have been a result of Monomi. That's interesting, actually. Monomi is more like a warped version of Junko's Monobear than this Monobear is like the previous.
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Feb 8, 2013 21:35
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Cornwind Evil posted:I hope the novel explains why, now that we know Junko is SHSL Despair or at least its avatar for the first game, how she managed to become friends with everyone and set them up when she's acting totally loonytoons every time we've seen her in the novel. True, maybe she only acted that way when she was free to do so and could get away with it, but that kind of insanity can be hard to mask, especially in a school made up of exceptional kids who would probably be more prone to noticing something like that than the average bunch of high schoolers. Every single facet of Junko's personality is a mask that she puts on, and has been the entire time. While it's hard to image her keeping up the "not a psycho" facade long enough to fool the entire class, I imagine she can supress it enough that her craziness is just written off. Models in her line of work, and SHSL people in general probably, tend to be a bit off so maybe the class wouldn't have thought too much on it.
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Feb 8, 2013 22:05
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Jeek posted:That brings up an important point - Junko is supposed to be a one-of-a-kind lunatic, which makes it really weird that Monobear 2.0 follows her formula so closely. He has thus far played so many of the trump cards Junko had in DR1 (murdering(?) someone to make a point, mention of a traitor, memory loss, extra student) he is almost a parody of her. Well, if we've got Junko-sympathizers out there in the world, I think they could probably easily interpret the events of DR1 as they were publicly broadcasted as her choosing to lose, or even as a victory, considering how gleefully she carried out her own execution. I'm really wondering how much we can really psychoanalyze Monobear because it gets so easy to see in him what you want to see in him. There seems to be a general consensus that he seems less competent and more aggressive than the old Monobear (he's still plenty wacky though) but that's as easily attributable to potentially different circumstances and different goals than Junko as it is to a shift in personality. It'd be more telling how similar he is to Junko-Monobear if he reacts to a circumstance that's known to be identical to one from DR1 in a different way. And then, when talking about Monobear's personality, there's always the fact that: Prison Warden posted:Every single facet of Junko's personality is a mask that she puts on, and has been the entire time. Is it just me or is DR0 kind of... slow paced so far? Essentially half the updates we've had have been devoted to what's more-or-less a single scene. I'm kind of curious how far through the book we've gotten.
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Feb 8, 2013 22:37
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So am I the only one annoyed by Ryouko narrating in the first person during her sections in DR0? If she has amnesia she shouldn't be able to remember the events in enough detail to describe them as a narrator. I was willing to buy that she was literally writing down every single thing that happens to her and reading off of her notebook to narrate, but she very clearly was not writing in her notebook while passing out. I guess I could buy it as a sort of stream of consciousness deal where we're in her head as she narrates the things she just did in the past tense. Actually, that kind of makes her awesome, in a totally batshit insane kind of way. Maybe that's why Junko has taken such a shine to her, crazy recognizes crazy, after all.
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Feb 9, 2013 02:54
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mangoman321 posted:So am I the only one annoyed by Ryouko narrating in the first person during her sections in DR0? If she has amnesia she shouldn't be able to remember the events in enough detail to describe them as a narrator. I was willing to buy that she was literally writing down every single thing that happens to her and reading off of her notebook to narrate, but she very clearly was not writing in her notebook while passing out. I guess I could buy it as a sort of stream of consciousness deal where we're in her head as she narrates the things she just did in the past tense. Actually, that kind of makes her awesome, in a totally batshit insane kind of way. Maybe that's why Junko has taken such a shine to her, crazy recognizes crazy, after all. Remember the MST3K mantra when dealing with issues like this, you'll probably be a lot happier if you do that.
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Feb 9, 2013 03:22
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I probably should've gotten through the SDP1 Let's Play before starting this one, but I'm definitely reading it now! Gundam is probably my favorite up to this point, it's hard not to like him. I want to know more about his hamster buddies.
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Feb 9, 2013 03:50
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mangoman321 posted:So am I the only one annoyed by Ryouko narrating in the first person during her sections in DR0? If she has amnesia she shouldn't be able to remember the events in enough detail to describe them as a narrator. I was willing to buy that she was literally writing down every single thing that happens to her and reading off of her notebook to narrate, but she very clearly was not writing in her notebook while passing out. I guess I could buy it as a sort of stream of consciousness deal where we're in her head as she narrates the things she just did in the past tense. Actually, that kind of makes her awesome, in a totally batshit insane kind of way. Maybe that's why Junko has taken such a shine to her, crazy recognizes crazy, after all. If you always have to imagine first-person narration as someone literally telling you a story, you probably run into problems like this a lot.
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Feb 9, 2013 04:14
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Falls Down Stairs posted:Well, if we've got Junko-sympathizers out there in the world, I think they could probably easily interpret the events of DR1 as they were publicly broadcasted as her choosing to lose, or even as a victory, considering how gleefully she carried out her own execution. Most likely there is probably a copy-cat killer who is controlling Monobear, granted since this is Dangan Ronpa that is not saying much. From the look of Monoworld there were a lot of people who seem to support Junko or at least Monobear as a symbol of sorts. Essentially it is a Following situation where despair-ridden people decide to help Junko since she is really pragmatic. Hopefully if this is case it would not be as stupid as the Following. Now for something that is loosely related to Dangan Ronpa. The Alamo Drafthouse is having a screening of Battle Royale which means a new poster from Mondo. Also Mondo got help from Kevin Tong and Bryan Lee O'Malley for this poster. I felt that this development would be appropriate to bring up in the thread. 
LateToTheParty fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Feb 9, 2013 |
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Feb 9, 2013 04:43
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mangoman321 posted:So am I the only one annoyed by Ryouko narrating in the first person during her sections in DR0? If she has amnesia she shouldn't be able to remember the events in enough detail to describe them as a narrator. I was willing to buy that she was literally writing down every single thing that happens to her and reading off of her notebook to narrate, but she very clearly was not writing in her notebook while passing out. I guess I could buy it as a sort of stream of consciousness deal where we're in her head as she narrates the things she just did in the past tense. Actually, that kind of makes her awesome, in a totally batshit insane kind of way. Maybe that's why Junko has taken such a shine to her, crazy recognizes crazy, after all. So if you read a story where the narrator dies at the end, do you throw up your hands and say "THAT IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS HOW COULD HE HAVE TOLD ME ALL OF THIS!?!"
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Feb 9, 2013 06:29
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There's going to be a murder sooon! I'm so stoked!  I'm excited to have a stupid little theory in the back of my head shattered. If you look at the Official Art on the first page, you'll notice most of the cast is "circled" in some way, but some of them aren't. For example, Mikan Tsumiki is slipping and surrounded in medical supplies, while Nagito and Hiyoko have a "spinny" effect going on that circles them with a sort of motion blur. There are six cast members without any kind of feature of this sort, the same number of survivors from the last game... I'd like to see one of these six murdered/as a murderer as soon as possible so I can stop thinking about it. As for the first case? I think it would be pretty neat if Togami were the murderer. It would make sense if he were the intruder Monobear mentioned, (if this is the same Togami from DR1,) and it would give him an opportunity to satisfy his obsessive urge from the first game, to "win the game," as he has all the experience from last time and thus is holding all the cards. In this case him taking a leadership role would make sense as a diversionary tactic. Of course I'm very likely completely wrong. If there's anything Dangan Ronpa is trying to drill into our heads it's "if you're making assumptions ever, you're probably wrong."
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Feb 9, 2013 08:11
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Poulpe posted:There's going to be a murder sooon! I'm so stoked!
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Feb 9, 2013 08:46
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I don't really think Togami will murder anyone. One of his character developments in DR1 being him becoming less of a jerk, after all. Moreover, he is allied to SHSL Hope as one of survivors, and murder isn't exactly hope-inducing.RefinedUndefined posted:Remember the MST3K mantra when dealing with issues like this, you'll probably be a lot happier if you do that. The first Google results for "MST3K mantra" are from  . Thank you so much, man. 
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Feb 9, 2013 08:52
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The one condition under which I could imagine Togami murdering someone is if he thinks he's discovered Monobear's identity and murders that person. Which is to say, I can conceive of him murdering someone about as easily as I can conceive anyone else in the cast murdering someone. Am I a bad person for thinking that if somebody has to die, I kind of hope that it's Togami, even if I like the guy? There are so many theories hinging on what he's up to; whatever fallout might occur if he dies would tell us a lot. 
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Feb 9, 2013 09:41
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Jeek posted:The first Google results for "MST3K mantra" are from You didn't have to google it, you could have just asked if you had no clue what it was. Or watch MST3K, if you're into that kind of show.
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Feb 9, 2013 11:58
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Jeek posted:I don't really think Togami will murder anyone. One of his character developments in DR1 being him becoming less of a jerk, after all. Moreover, he is allied to SHSL Hope as one of survivors, and murder isn't exactly hope-inducing. There's nothing wrong with the TV tropes article for the "MST3k mantra" so I'm not sure what you're complaining about
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Feb 9, 2013 13:09
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QuarkJets posted:There's nothing wrong with the TV tropes article for the "MST3k mantra" so I'm not sure what you're complaining about TV Tropes as a whole is a pretty horrible place.
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Feb 9, 2013 13:30
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Requested_Username posted:So if you read a story where the narrator dies at the end, do you throw up your hands and say "THAT IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS HOW COULD HE HAVE TOLD ME ALL OF THIS!?!" If the story is told in the first person? Then yes. If you wanted to kill off the protagonist then have a third-person omniscient narrator. Maybe I'm just pulling the literary equivalent of those physics buffs who watch action movies and go loving drat IT EXPLOSIONS DONT WORK THAT WAY IMMERSION RUINED, but including narration that the plot has established the narrator literally should not be able to provide is really, really annoying to me. Usually, if the first-person narrator has information they shouldn't, some indication is given as to why. "I didn't know it at the time, but there was an assassin with a knife hiding in the shadows, stalking my every step", suggests that the narrator learned at some further time what the assassin was doing, and that they will survive the encounter to be able to reflect on it now. Would no one else be annoyed if the following line was "and then said assassin jumped out and murdered me and I died"?
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Feb 9, 2013 14:08
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Maybe he's a ghost 
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Feb 9, 2013 15:04
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:TV Tropes as a whole is a pretty horrible place. Eh, Sturgeon's Law and all that. TvTropes is a lovely place because they lump in everything from everything from everywhere, both bad and good. If someone provides a shortcut to the good, why not take it?
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Feb 9, 2013 15:10
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CommissarMega posted:Eh, Sturgeon's Law and all that. TvTropes is a lovely place because they lump in everything from everything from everywhere, both bad and good. If someone provides a shortcut to the good, why not take it? I think it's a once burned, twice shy thing. TvTropes could be good, but there's a lot of crap there as well, and it's not really worth it to shift through dirt to find gold sometimes.
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Feb 9, 2013 15:18
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To clarify my point, what annoys me is when the narrative voice is inconsistent. I like to pay attention to the style of narration to figure out what the 'voice' of the narrator is. Is the narrator witholding information for the sake of suspense? Is the narrator unreliable? Does the narrator switch speaking style depending on what's going on in the story? Does the narrator know something the characters do not? These are all interesting things to pay attention to. If the narration is first person, that means the protagonist and the narrator are the same person. Having the narrator know or be capable of something the protagonist isn't able to do is inconsistent and to me bad writing. This can be explained if the narrator is speaking from some future point and is reflecting on what happened to herself earlier, with current knowledge she didn't have at the point of the story being told. But if the protagonist dies then this isn't possible. frajaq posted:Maybe he's a ghost You see, if some indication was given that ghosts are a thing in this story, then to me this would be fine. Like, if the intent was to play around with the narrative voice, to challenge the convention of the genre, then this can still be interesting and fun to read. But in most cases when this happens the author is just being lazy or unskilled. To be honest I'm not even that upset with DR0 since it's being pretty clear its not taking itself or its characters too seriously. The DR series plays around with convention enough that griping about inconsistencies is pointless. And the explanation I gave, that Ryouko's narration is more stream of consciousness, seems to fit nicely anyway, so I don't actually have any real complaints.
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Feb 9, 2013 15:21
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This might have been answered before in the thread (I'm pretty new to this one ), but what the hell is up with Ibuki's leg in the official art?
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Feb 9, 2013 16:36
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V!ntar posted:This might have been answered before in the thread (I'm pretty new to this one
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Feb 9, 2013 16:42
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