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My question is how did that knife get there. Togami confiscated all dangerous items. This would mean 1 of three things happened. -Nagito hid a knife somewhere while they were cleaning. -Some took the case Togami had, went to the case Peko had and opened it then took the knife back and killed Togami. -Togami had the knife. My money is on the third one. The first one seems really unlikely and the second one could only have realistically been done by Peko. Although Togami could have also faked his death. As for the bathroom, am I the only one who thinks monobear was in there the whole time? I'm also a bit curious how some of the other clues and events that happened before the murder will come into play. Crackpot theory: Monobear killed Togami, frames Nagito and gets him executed to remove threats.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:07
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There are two weapons in play here. A missing skewer and a knife from the store. You don't need two weapons to make a murder, so that means two characters were attempting to commit murder, but only one became a killer. Despite my earlier hypothesis about Togami planning to kill someone, he had a perfectly good box to hold the knife in, and wouldn't need glow in the dark tape either since it's pretty much implicit that the Night Vision Goggles were his. It accounts for his smugness; he was just waiting for someone to try a stunt like this. Togami accurately guessed ahead of time that someone would try to kill the lights and then try to kill somebody at the party. Peko is assigned to guard duty, more...or less everyone is in the same building under his watchful eyes, and any potential weapon si confiscated with the key to these tools in his pocket-- he can't have known someone smuggled in the knife else he'd be standing nearby it or he'd have secretly confiscated it. If he wasn't taking chances with skewers, why would he take a chance with a discovered hidden knife? So that means we have a Would-Be-Killer and an Actual-Killer. The Would-Be-Killer planted, planned and tried to go for the knife. Togami attempted to stop him, but the Actual killer got him. The real mystery here is who's the Actual-Killer, the opportunistic killer. Did they know about the planned power outage? Did they lie in wait under the drat building for most, if not all the party and how did they get over to the Knife Table in time to stab Togami? These are the questions and scenarios we need to figure out...
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Feb 22, 2013 05:28
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On the other hand, there is little reason for anybody to duck under a table when the lights are out. It seems that there may be more than one murderer in this case though. Here is a little theory: - Murderer A knows there will be a party in the lodge and decides to murder there. He prepares a mechanism to create a blackout, then hid a knife from outside (to prevent Hanamura from noticing) under the table. He/she used glow-in-dark tape such that he/she can locate it. - Murderer B wanted to seize the opportunity as well. He/she somehow found the knife and concluded that somebody will go under that table at some point. He also noted the cracks on the floor and decided to strike from below when that somebody got under it. He took a skewer from the kitchen and hid it under the floor. - The blackout happened as planned. However, murderer A did not take Togami into account - his night vision goggle allows him to retrieve the knife faster than him/her. - Murderer B (who sneaked under the lodge at some point) heard that somebody got under the table and striked, and poor Togami got staked instead of murderer A. EDIT: f, b 
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Feb 22, 2013 05:33
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Tesseraction posted:Just to aid (or quash?) speculation, the person saying "Hey, what do you think you're doing?" followed by the pause then the sound of some kind of action followed by "Stop it!" and the "Ow!" are all spoken by Togami. I can't help but recognise Akira Ishida's voice and it's definitely him saying all three. Noticeably he says that after Hiyoko yells for someone to not tread on her feet. I wonder if it's because Togami (using the night vision goggles he'd previously stored in his box) saw someone loving around with that table and went to confront them? It makes sense if you consider that the tape seemed designed to make itself obvious and whoever had goggles wouldn't need such a clue. It feels as though the timeline is something like: Maybe Saionji Kicked Togami as he ran past for thinking he stepped on her foot or stepping on her foot.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:42
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DaveWoo posted:Speaking of searching the crime scene... I wonder who's going to lead the investigation? There's no obvious Kirigiri-type character in the group, and pretty much everyone is a potential suspect. That's a good question, as well. Unless Hinata is a SHSL Detective(and it's unlikely they'll have the mystery student turn out to be the detective twice in a row), then there isn't really anyone whose expertise can be put to use in investigating corpses. Mikan is probably the closest fit, because of her medical background. Then again, she isn't the most emotionally stable person in the group, and might end up freaking out and tripping over things at the sight of a body. Though it would be ironic if a murder is the only situation where she isn't crippled by social anxiety...
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Feb 22, 2013 05:46
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Wyvernil posted:That's a good question, as well. Unless Hinata is a SHSL Detective(and it's unlikely they'll have the mystery student turn out to be the detective twice in a row), then there isn't really anyone whose expertise can be put to use in investigating corpses. I could believe it, though. I mean, she is a SHSL nurse, she has to at least be able to function when in the kinds of situations that involve cadavers, death, pain, and dying.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:49
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Hinata can just borrow a copy of Phoenix Wright from Chiaki to learn the basics,  Pyradox posted:Not to mention we still don't really know if it's glow in the dark tape or just bright green tape. If I recall correctly, it's supposed to be glowing. In the game, it's much brighter then the blood.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:51
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Everyone is assuming that someone wore the goggles to go under the table. What if someone stored the knife AND the goggles under the table? You wouldn't need the glow-in-the-dark tape if you have the goggles, but you would need goggles to kill someone with the knife after you got it. Which means the killer needed both. Since Togami had the case, he wouldn't need to go under the table to get a murder weapon. Plus, if he killed someone, people would suspect him since he's the only one with access to a storage device that could contain a weapon. My theory is this: 1. Togami notices the flouresant tape and someone doing something under the table, follows him, and is killed. The killer doesn't need the goggles since he's already killed someone, and leaves it. 2. Nagito is one of the few people who could have set this up. However, that means it more unlikely he did do it. If you are the only one with means to kill someone, then it's a bad idea to do it since they will pick you during the trial. (Although he does seem the most likely.) 3. The cook didn't do it. Why would he need to have planted a knife when he could have brought something from the kitchen. Even hitting someone in the head with a frying pan would work. 4. The gangster didn't do it either. Why plant a knife for a party you aren't even going to? If he wanted to kill someone he could wait until everyone fell asleep and kill someone. 5. The nurse's clumsiness while believable from a character point of view, seems very convenient. What if she is faking the clumsiness? Who would possibly suspect her? It just seems too convenient to have these falls happen. I mean from a meta point of view, it makes sense for fan-service, which is kinda sad. I just think it'd be cool if it turned out she was faking all along. But that really just wild speculation and disgust at the stupid fan-service shots.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:56
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TKMobile posted:There are two weapons in play here. A missing skewer and a knife from the store. You don't need two weapons to make a murder, so that means two characters were attempting to commit murder, but only one became a killer. Unlike the previous game, this group of kids needed absolutely no encouragement what-so-ever to start killing each other, then. The last group needed direct threats to their family and friends to crack them. These kids are inconvenienced with an island vacation for two goddamn days and what follows is the murder equivalent of the three stooges all trying to go through a door at the same time and getting stuck.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:58
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Anatharon posted:edit: By the way, Orenonen, you mentioned you wanted to do an update a day until things picked up; Is this what you meant? That was in response to slowbeef suggesting we stop the meaningless cliffhangers, so yes - I meant until the murder is revealed.
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Feb 22, 2013 06:00
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Big man down.  Good night, sweet 
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Feb 22, 2013 06:03
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a spooky ghost posted:Big man down. Well, he might pull a Yamada-like declaration first...oh who am I kidding. It's his party, and he'll die if he wants to, die if he wants to, die if he wants to. You would die too if it happened to you. (I'm sorry...no, I'm not.)
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Feb 22, 2013 06:06
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Krinkle posted:Unlike the previous game, this group of kids needed absolutely no encouragement what-so-ever to start killing each other, then. The last group needed direct threats to their family and friends to crack them. These kids are inconvenienced with an island vacation for two goddamn days and what follows is the murder equivalent of the three stooges all trying to go through a door at the same time and getting stuck. To be fair, the first crew woke up in a sealed off building with a maniacal robot, and the original impetus to murder was showing them how their lives were being ruined due to their absence. Here, we've had class #2 experience the same kind of kidnapping.... ...only they've woken up in a completely alien setting no matter how peaceful it seems, two robots with polar opposite priorities start bossing them around before the evil(er) robot summons his GIANT loving KILLER ROBOTS that are loaded to bear with enough guns to take out a country or put up one hell of a fight against Rambo. And this bickering continues from both robots leaving these kids with very little recourse to trust ANYTHING, but they're probably feeling far more threatened than the DR1 crew and the moment MB gives them reasons to kill each other, well... someone's obviously taken the chance. Keep in mind, also, without being ordered to, most of the kids secluded themselves in a lodge, clustered close to each other knowing what Monobear expects, and then the lights go out. I'm not defending the murderer in any way, but seriously? DR2's class has already had to have put up with *alot* more poo poo than before.
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Feb 22, 2013 06:11
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Don't forget Monobear's claim that there's a person here who shouldn't be. Who? Why? None of them know, maybe not even the person themself. Or maybe they're there to kill everyone. Who knows! That's not even considering anyone having a reason to hate someone from before. Naegi and Maizono remembered each other from before, so it's entirely possible something similar is the case here. Though we can't know until we begin to investigate. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 07:05
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Anatharon posted:It's supposed to be luminous. I didn't quite notice it before but -- Judging by the Games DR thread, you've either finished the game or are about to. Please don't clarify anything before the game does in this thread, and keep out of theory discussions. I am keeping this quote in the clear because it's fairly minor and obvious, but it's exactly the sort of thing you should've waited for the game to explicitly tell the player.
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Feb 22, 2013 07:11
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There has been something that's been bothering me ever since it started happening. Namely, it's that every time the cases are mentioned, they're specifically referred to as duralumin cases. It certainly makes sense for Togami to keep mentioning a minor detail like that (possibly to dissuade attempts to destroy it), but from a more meta perspective, why did the writers want us to know? We already have two murder weapons outside of the case. I can't help but think that someone will bring up the possibility of breaking into the case of weapons during the trial, making us have to point out that they're duralumin. That said, the state of the case after the murder could easily prove that nobody had broken into it, but if we don't find the case, then we'd have to have an alternative piece of evidence- that it was duralumin. After all, it isn't too unlikely for the case to just disappear with Peko gone AWOL. But of course, that's assuming that the specification of duralumin isn't just a (translation?) quirk or that we'd have to prove them wrong with the duralumin evidence even with the more solid evidence of the state of the case. For what it's worth, it'd probably be Hanamura, Souda, Mikan, or possibly Koizumi bringing it up. I doubt this will be relevant to the actual events of the murder or conviction (given the murderer doesn't try to convince everyone that the knife was taken from the box, not stashed before the party began), but I figured it was worth pointing out.
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Feb 22, 2013 07:14
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I'm going to wait until we get the forensic report on the body, but I'm pretty sure the shape of the wound will tell us what the murder weapon was and make it easier to see whether or not the case of confiscated weapons is evidence used in the crime or a way of eliminating outside possibilities of weapons being brought in from outside. It'll probably give us a lot more to go on than speculation. For all we know, the bloody knife is just bloody because it was in the area when Togami was killed. The missing skewer seems pretty likely to me, just because they brought so much attention to it earlier. Whether or not it's a red herring, we'll have to see.
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Feb 22, 2013 07:24
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Not enough people seem to be worrying about Peko. Seriously. The only places she could be are the storage room and the bathroom barring literally falling through a hole in the floorboards.
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Feb 22, 2013 07:26
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curiousCat posted:Not enough people seem to be worrying about Peko. Seriously. The only places she could be are the storage room and the bathroom barring literally falling through a hole in the floorboards. She is a SHSL Swordwoman with a sword with her. If anything, we should worry about Kuyuuzuu being bashed to death by a shinai.
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Feb 22, 2013 07:58
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TKMobile posted:Togami accurately guessed ahead of time that someone would try to kill the lights and then try to kill somebody at the party. Alternately, Togami orchestrated the lights going out to try to ferret out a potential killer so that the rest of them could keep an eye on him/her (much like what he did with Syo during the first game, if in fact they are the same person). Lights out, put on goggles, sees someone engaging in shenanigans/jumping under the table to grab the knife "Hey you! Stop that" and ends up dying for his trouble. Trial would amount to Nidai saying "While I was waiting by the crapper, I saw Togami fiddling with the breaker box, so I told Peko/Kuzuryuu/Monomi/whomever..." and that person decides to act upon his inside knowledge.
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Feb 22, 2013 08:16
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Jeek posted:She is a SHSL Swordwoman with a sword with her. If anything, we should worry about Kuyuuzuu being bashed to death by a shinai. I think I would be worried more about the box Peko was meant to be protecting. I hope it is still with her, cause it smells like trouble.
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Feb 22, 2013 08:20
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orenronen posted:I didn't quite notice it before but -- Sorry.  I have nearly beaten the game, but as a result of my abysmal reading of Japanese, I quite honestly have no idea why or how a fair amount of the game happened. If I'm speculating, my guess is as accurate as anyone else's and if it wouldn't be I wouldn't post. Though I'll still stop posting in the thread entirely if you feel it's for the best. I love the game (or what I understood of it) and really don't want to hurt the LP.
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Feb 22, 2013 08:45
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curiousCat posted:Not enough people seem to be worrying about Peko. Seriously. The only places she could be are the storage room and the bathroom barring literally falling through a hole in the floorboards. Or an exit from the bathroom that we didn't get to see. That said, I would not be surprised to hear she's dead.
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Feb 22, 2013 08:48
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My theory that Togami is smuggling the cast of DR1 onto the island in his gut looks weaker by the minute. Unless his jaw unhinges and Kirigiri comes out I might give up. 
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Feb 22, 2013 10:43
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Ettin posted:My theory that Togami is smuggling the cast of DR1 onto the island in his gut looks weaker by the minute. Unless his jaw unhinges and Kirigiri comes out I might give up. My theory that Syo somehow got Togami pregnant is looking even less likely 
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Feb 22, 2013 11:04
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Might as well throw my more or less insane theory into the ring, since everyone else is doing it too. My guess is that Togami and Nagito were in cahoots since the beginning to set up a fake murder in order to test the kids. It seems just like Byakuya 'Corpse Mover' Togami to fake his own death in order to show the kids that A. Murder is a real possibility and is scary, so please don't do it, and B: If you do murder someone these kids are smarter than you think and will probably figure out you did it. Nagito conveniently had the sticks to draw lots, suggesting he knew beforehand the need for them would come up. Although there was opportunity for someone else to sneak in and set up the knife when Nagito left, the person would need foreknowledge of the fact that the lights would go out, and the time to set up the breakers to trip on command*. While taping the knife under that table could be done rather quickly while Nagito was gone, messing with the breaker would take longer. The plan was for Nagito to trigger the lights to go out then to go to the table for the knife. Togami would put on the night vision he brought with him and wrestle with the culprit, only to get stabbed and killed in the scuffle. Nagito is drawing attention to the storage room because he purposefully left evidence in there that will incriminate him. Once the kids figure out it was him, Togami would get back up and be like "Surprise, there was no real murder, but this is what it would look like if there was one". However, something went wrong during the blackout, and Togami was actually murdered. My guess is that everything went according to plan with Nagito, but that someone was hiding under the floorboards with the skewer and took the opportunity to stab Togami during the confusion. Whether they knew about the knife and were waiting there in particular, or merely took an opportunity due to chance is up in the air. Nagito will until proven otherwise actually think Togami is still alive, and will be shocked to learn he is actually dead. I don't have any bets as to the actual killer, but I imagine whatever we find in the bathroom will be a hint towards that. * Yes we don't know the breakers were rigged to trip. Peko could be the culprit, or someone could have disabled her and tripped them in person. Getting evidence regarding the breakers and Peko's whereabouts can easily negate this whole theory. Main problems with this theory: It's kind of hard to fake your death if one of the students is an SHSL nurse. It seems highly unlikely someone as supposedly clever as Togami would think he could fake his death with an actual medical professional in the room. On the other hand, it would take someone as arrogant as Togami to be convinced he could fake his death with a medical professional in the room. Also, from a meta standpoint we already have the animal trainer's earring as a setup for a potential red herring. In the first case it seems unlikely we would have that many red herrings to contend with. In all honesty the case is likely much more simple than all this, but I just really like the idea of Togami faking his own death to prove a point, just like he moved a corpse around in DR1
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Feb 22, 2013 16:26
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Bear in mind that we only have Togami's word that the circuit breakers are in the office. There is something that may look like it here: but then it also looks more like an air conditioning unit. Certainly a little high up for a circuit breaker, which could be in the cupboard opposite from the Monobear trophy. Either way, the only mention of them was Togami's and the only person who could have checked, Souda, never got to the office because it was too dark to find it. If Nagito was in cahoots then of course he wouldn't spill the beans - and all the more reason for him to keep Pekoyama out of the storage room with plenty of hidden walls and areas where the actual breakers could be:  And to add to your theory a little bit, I wonder if the faking of a murder was intended and succeeded - the reason Togami didn't want Monobear around is so that Monobear would be unsure if the death was real or not, and used the confusion of no lights (therefore no witnesses) to fake his own death. If that's the case, then Monobear also wouldn't know who the culprit was (as there isn't one), so I'm not really sure why that would be his plan, unless the plan is merely to upset Monobear's plan, which plays into his 'messing with the crime scene' playfulness of before, I suppose. That could explain why there's two potential weapons.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:02
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I wonder if it is possible to fake a death under Monobear's watch. In DR1 when someone died, we got an autopsy report with the time/cause of death. Is that because the murder was caught on camera, and Monobear could hurry up and check the body before anyone else wandered in and found it? If someone was "killed" in the dark, I wonder how that would work out.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:17
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He's selling night vision at the shop. I'm sure he's fully prepared for a romantic low-light candlelight murder
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Feb 22, 2013 17:27
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Mondlicht posted:I wonder if it is possible to fake a death under Monobear's watch. In DR1 when someone died, we got an autopsy report with the time/cause of death. Is that because the murder was caught on camera, and Monobear could hurry up and check the body before anyone else wandered in and found it? If someone was "killed" in the dark, I wonder how that would work out. Well, Monobear was willing to 'delay' the death announcement for Mukuro, as well as hold a trial for a suicide, suggesting he's willing to play a bit loose with the rules if it would be interesting or beneficial him. Also, I'm not sure but did he give Yamada's death announcement before or after he regained consciousness to name his killer? If it was before then his medical ability is not 100% accurate. Either way, this is likely a different Monobear controller from DR1, so using precedent to determine what Monobear would do is shaky at best. I don't think there's much benefit to trying to trick monobear with your own death, as there are still cameras everywhere so as soon as you got up I imagine he would know you're still alive. If Togami is really faking his death, it would only be to mess with the students, either for a 'benevolent' reason like I suggested, or for some more devious reason because he is the mastermind/mole/etc. I suppose it's possible that Togami actually isn't dead here, and there's an actual dead body in the bathroom, either Peko or Kuzuryu I would guess. That would explain why we haven't gotten a death announcement yet, although that could simply be the first thing we see in the next update. In the end, all this theory crafting when we don't even have a single evidence bullet is pointless, but I just wanted to get my dumb theory out in case the very next update disproves it.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:30
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I think the death announcement will be held off till the beginning of the next update since this is the first death in the game and they wanted to end the chapter part on a shock.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:36
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Anatharon posted:Sorry. I think absolutely everyone who's played through this game or have been spoiled on bits should completely stop posting in this thread until Oren finishes the LP.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:47
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flatluigi posted:I think absolutely everyone who's played through this game or have been spoiled on bits should completely stop posting in this thread until Oren finishes the LP. Well, they posting after a trial about how you felt about that episode is fine since they seem to usually be pretty isolated (at least based on DR1.) Also talking about the free-time events is fine. But avoiding the conversations about what might be going on is a good idea.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:17
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Vyxzuw posted:Well, they posting after a trial about how you felt about that episode is fine since they seem to usually be pretty isolated (at least based on DR1.) I think let the OP decide. I'd personally consider what was posted one of those a minor sort of thing, but I still wouldn't like people in the know to confirm/deny anything we're speculating on. Part of the reason for a strict no-spoiler policy isn't just that. It's because it also encourages further spoilers like: (Note this is all made up) - "All I have to say is you guys are totally off with the night vision." - "What do you mean? I played it before and the goggles totally play into the murder?" - "Well without spoiling things, it deals with the setup, but not the murder itself." - "Well yeah but it's not a red herring" And it goes like that until one idiot says - "No stupid, it plays into it because Togami was actually beaten to death with the goggles and not stabbed at all."
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Feb 22, 2013 19:26
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slowbeef posted:- "No stupid, it plays into it because Togami was actually beaten to death with the goggles and not stabbed at all." I take back all my previous theories, I think this is exactly what happened. But yeah, I'd stay out of speculation entirely, just giggle and shake your head in silence. At the very least, read the updates so you know EXACTLY where the rest of us are, but in the end it's Oren's call.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:36
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slowbeef posted:I think let the OP decide. I don't mind if people who played the game post here to talk about how they feel about things after they happen in the LP. They should just be very careful - it's very easy to not realize how much you may be influenced by knowledge of future events. In other words - don't post anything I wouldn't post. The easiest way to do that is to stay out of theory and speculation. That includes not replying to others' as well.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:17
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Tesseraction posted:Bear in mind that we only have Togami's word that the circuit breakers are in the office. There is something that may look like it here: What you're looking at is an air conditioning unit, but there's also a circuit breaker next to it -- it's that thing high up on the wall to the right of the aircon. Unless it's for some reason a fake breaker, Togami wasn't lying about that.
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Feb 23, 2013 01:48
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Security camera network notwithstanding, there's a big problem with faking a murder/death if the intent is to work against Monobear from behind the scenes. To truly fake a murder and be presumed dead, especially if you're working with an accomplice to set up the false murder, someone's going to have to take the fall and be executed unless the "victim" outs him/herself before the trial is over. That would defeat the whole purpose of the plan unless the information/goal/whatever you're after can be found in the brief amount of time Monobear/Junko allowed for investigation of the murder pre-trial. That, or your accomplice has to be willing to die for the cause of stopping Monobear, which seems relatively unlikely from a bunch of high school kids. Silly theorizing: I also wonder if, given a faked murder for which there is no actual correct culprit to nail yet one is chosen at trial, would Monobear call that an incorrect answer and execute everyone? It'd cut his despair game quite short but, given that we're in a sequel, it doesn't seem that Monobear's terribly short on participants for a round three, as it were.
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Feb 23, 2013 02:03
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I'm leaning towards the two-murderers theory people have brought up. One person was planning murder, planted the knife in advance, and arranged for the lights to go out. Somehow. *waves hands* The other person didn't have anything planned, but was looking for an opportunity - they took a skewer and were lurking under the house. Either Kuzuryuu or Peko, most likely having reached the undercabin from the bathroom (thus sneaking past Chiaki and Monomi). When the lights go out, suspect A ducks under the table (having been loitering near it) and grabs for the glow-in-the-dark-marked knife. Not sure what they were planning to do next. In any case, Togami spots them with his goggles, dives under the table after them. Suspect A drops the knife and scampers - and suspect B seizes the chance and skewers Togami. Suspect A rejoins the crowd and tries to act like nothing happened. Suspect B hides out under the cabin. And then... uh... the theory still has some holes in it, okay? We'll see.
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Feb 23, 2013 02:22
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I would say that if they do have a 2 murderer deal going, it would be awesome if the game deals with the fallout in a better way than it did with Syo in the first game. I demand free time events with the traitor.
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Feb 23, 2013 02:39
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