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CandyCrazy posted:The main thing to be gained from poisoning Peko, aside from creating a scapegoat, would be that the breakers would be left unattended to, keeping the blackout going longer than it would otherwise. This creates a bit of a paradox, since Nagito's the main suspect for the blackout, but Hanamura's the one that was in the best position to poison the food, which is what the game seems to be implying got Peko sick, since it made an evidence bullet about only Akane and Peko eating it. Except that nobody could have possibly reached those breakers. That's part of the point. Getting rid of Peko makes her a suspect, it doesn't do anything relating to the blackout. Another interesting thing: Nagito says he unplugged the irons when he went to search the storage room after the lights came back on. If he's not lying, why didn't the breaker trip again immediately after Monobear flipped it? Either the AC automatically switches off in the event of a power outage, or there was some other appliance or appliances plugged in or switched on that got turned off. Hanamura had the best opportunity to plug extra appliances in, so he's on the suspect list. And it's a little odd that he got to the ballroom so quickly in the dark. It also appears that there's a main power switch and several breakers, which makes me wonder whether everything is on the same circuit. On the other hand, if the kitchen is on a different circuit, Hanamura is lying but he also didn't have the opportunity to plug anything in and then unplug it. The AC switching off might be more plausible as an explanation.
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Mar 3, 2013 20:33
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I just like that the game intentionally puts the breakers in a really high place. The game designers are saying "Look, this is dumb and no one would design a lodge with circuit breakers this far out of reach, but this is our way of telling you to forget about the circuit breakers. Here, have a monobear joke" e: Narsham posted:Except that nobody could have possibly reached those breakers. That's part of the point. Getting rid of Peko makes her a suspect, it doesn't do anything relating to the blackout. That kind of single-unit air conditioner is all digital and doesn't keep track of its on/off state during a power outage, if the power goes out then you have to turn it back on when the power returns. Now that you're mentioning multiple breakers, I bet we'll learn that the storage room is on the same circuit whereas the kitchen is on a different circuit. All of these air conditioners being set to the same time + a bunch of plugged in irons + the game telling us that no one could reach the circuit breaker (except for Stretch Monostrong) just points the player to the idea that the blackout was planned via overloading the circuit QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 20:37
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This is two pages ago, but there's a bunch of reports on it and at the risk of derailing things, I'll say it anyway. This is a murder mystery, and it's loving stupid-as-hell to assume female characters are acting weird because "they're on their period." If you find a tampon as an evidence bullet, theorize away, but if that doesn't happen, it's rude and disrespectful to say a character is acting funny because she might be hormonal or something. Please try to post like adults.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:01
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With all this talk about poisoning and related stuff I can't wait until its revealed that Nagito was just lucky that Peko got sick at that moment so that she couldn't pull the breaker with her sword or something. Man I sure hope that happens. And in a related issue people were talking about Nidai also getting poisoned because he stole some food but, and I may be remembering wrong here, isn't he talking about going to the toilet a character quirk of him? I think I remember him mentioning going to the toilet a couple of times in the game before, so him waiting to go now isn't that strange.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:04
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IceBorg posted:With all this talk about poisoning and related stuff I can't wait until its revealed that Nagito was just lucky that Peko got sick at that moment so that she couldn't pull the breaker with her sword or something. Man I sure hope that happens. Plus, he didn't say he was sick, just that he had to go. I think that maybe someone visited her and poisoned her food. This may be why she was the only one to get sick. This would also mean that those not in the room when the lights went out would be more suspect. (Like the cook visiting her under the pretense of asking if she wants more food.)
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Mar 3, 2013 21:16
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IceBorg posted:And in a related issue people were talking about Nidai also getting poisoned because he stole some food but, and I may be remembering wrong here, isn't he talking about going to the toilet a character quirk of him? I think I remember him mentioning going to the toilet a couple of times in the game before, so him waiting to go now isn't that strange. From the first update: quote:
And of course there was this moment: quote:
That great tamagotchi edit someone posted a bit ago fits him more and more.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:36
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Before we try to figure out why we've been gathered here, we need to figure out why we can't leave.
Huh? Whadd’ya mean we can't leave?!
Eh?! N...No way!
...Eh?! What's going on?!
Right after we came here, I felt an urge and figured I’d go use the crapper...
But that door wouldn't budge an inch!
If we wish to live through this extraordinary ordeal, what do you think is of the utmost importance right now?
Feh, how should we know? Just hurry up and get to the point.
If you want me to get to the point, answer my question.
Ku... you're forgetting bowel movements.
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Man, generally by this point in the investigation I'd have an idea who the murderer was, like a short list of possible suspects that are probably all red herrings but at least something, but while we have the general idea of how things went down it's entirely unclear whodunit. I think this is largely a result of the huge cast we have here, the most suspicious people are also the least recognizable because they aren't talking to Hinata. It was kind of puzzling why they just gave away the murderer in the tutorial mission in DR1, but I think it was a good idea because it gave you a sense that yes, someone actually did this. Right now the murder mystery feels kind of aimless without it. Now I also think that is entirely the writer's intention. They're still running on the trust they earned from offering satisfying solutions in DR1, so they are overwhelming us because they know that we trust that there is going to be a resolution. All I know is that this is going to be one of those times where we have no idea who did it until the trial is over.
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Mar 3, 2013 22:22
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Kuzuryuu is the obvious suspect, to the point where I'd normally expect him to be the obvious red herring, but the fact that we haven't seen anybody accuse him yet makes me suspect he might actually be the culprit.
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Mar 3, 2013 22:32
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I really don't like Nagito's chances right now. Between his being suspicious as hell, and the irony of Togami being killed by the Naegi analogue, it just seems the most likely. But, at the same time, that's all the more reason it wouldn't be him. Whoever it is, it's going to end up being way out of left field, and likely won't be apparent until halfway through the trial when new evidence pops up.
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Mar 3, 2013 22:32
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The Devil Tesla posted:Man, generally by this point in the investigation I'd have an idea who the murderer was, like a short list of possible suspects that are probably all red herrings but at least something, but while we have the general idea of how things went down it's entirely unclear whodunit. Well, we have a basic list; Nagito; acting suspicious, seems defensive of the storage room, denies the existence of obvious blood stains. Hanamura: Maybe I'm just obsessing because this has become my pet theory but he'd have access to the skewer and the fire doors letting him move about rather freely with no one questioning his absence but he'd only take part in this if the game was real, which it clearly isn't. Peko: If only because she was out of the room but not at her post. I think we can cross her off as a red herring right no though. She could have used her wooden sword to reach the switches though... Kuruzyuu: Openly declared his willingness to kill, if not his intent. Completely absent. Gundam: Batshit crazy, earring under the floorboards could imply he was shuffling about under there. Maybe I'm missing something but right now it seems like these are our 5 and I think we can rule out Peko (feels like a set up) and Gundam (we can't loose him this soon.) Really, I'd rule out Kuru as well but as said above, that he hasn't been accused by anyone yet despite being kind of obvious is making me have doubts. So, to me at least, we have 3 candidates and while that's still two too many it give us a good area to focus on. Popo fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 22:54
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Some people have mentioned Souda as he would know how to set this up and tried to throw blame on to Peko right away.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:04
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Is it possible that this is a multi-person job, where they aren't aware of the nature of the rules for collaborative murder? Possibly Nagito+Chef, with Nagito in charge of setup and Chef doing the stabbing? Or perhaps a double murder, with the second party not yet discovered (Kuzuryuu, presumably)?
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Mar 3, 2013 23:12
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Popo posted:Well, we have a basic list; If Kuzuryuu did it, why would the bloody tablecloth end up inside the lodge? He'd be better off just stashing that in his cabin, or literally anywhere other than the lodge which he has supposedly never been in. Gundam's earring went missing before the power outage, so I really don't think it's serving any other point than to show that the floorboards are pretty crappy and stuff can fit through the gaps. Peko could use the practice sword to hit the breaker, but why would she need to do that if she set up the electronics to trip it in the first place? The only way this could tie into it is if the A/C timers *and* irons were all red herrings. That seems pretty unlikely.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:27
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Okay, so. Having collected all the evidence bullets so far into a text file to save myself the trouble of reviewing stuff, I'm going to try to figure out the case based solely on the evidence bullets. This means that I'll be skipping a few things that don't have evidence bullets, but... At least it's fairly grounded on evidence. So, the first thing to note is that the Monobear file indicates that there's no sign of any traces of poison or other drugs in the body. This... Kind of eliminates the possibility that all the food was drugged. It's also a pretty safe assumption that Togami was using the night vision goggles, as he was definitely interacting with someone during the blackout, as indicated by Mioda's testimony. The knife was clearly planted there by someone, presumably whoever Togami was interacting with during the blackout. I'm going to hold off on the assumption that Nagito was the only person who could have done it, since... We don't an evidence bullet for that. We also have our evidence bullets that indicate that the blackout was planned, so it's a pretty safe assumption that whoever had the glow in the dark knife was the same person who caused the blackout. Okay, true, so far this is mostly stuff everyone agrees upon. It's the other evidence bullets where things get interesting, though... We have no less than three references to a potential fire going on here, apparently important enough to be considered evidence bullets: The Fire Door can be closed to prevent the spread of fire, the kitchen range is controlled electronically and couldn't be used during the power outage, and... The kitchen list evidence bullet makes reference to a barbecue griddle and portable hot pot stove. There's definitely something up with that. Aside from those, probably the other thing to look at is probably the gaps in the floor. If there weren't any blood trails, and the knife isn't the murder weapon (which admittedly, it may not be), it's possible that the actual murder weapon was dumped down one of the gaps. Now to make a bit of a guess based on things, which may or may not be right. Nagito was the one that set up the blackout and planted the knife. He was the one with the biggest opportunity, after all, though there isn't actually any direct evidence of it. However, Togami spotted him going for something under the table, and called him out. Surprised, Nagito grabbed the knife by the sharp end and promptly dropped it, whereupon Togami went under the table to grab it, where he wound up killed by a second unknown murder weapon, which was promptly dumped down one of the gaps. This does not necessarily mean Nagito killed him, of course. and I haven't seen any mention of Nagito having a wound, so I can't prove this theory either.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:45
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[redacted]
Skunkrocker fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Feb 18, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2013 00:55
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Its possible but a bit unlikely given at that age you usually are aware of what you can and can't eat. Twiddy posted:Welcome to Something Awful. I apologize and don't mean to drag this on, but I do have to at least address this and say that no, I don't have any weird fixations or fetishes like that. In fact, its more likely the opposite that's the problem. I just know the general gist and that its probably quite uncomfortable. As far as I'm concerned, that's all I need to know about it. I just don't think Pekoyama was poisoned. We haven't received any actual hints of poison. It was confirmed that Togami wasn't poisoned despite probably having scarfed as much food as Owari if not more. Owari hasn't shown any negative side effects (you can't just assume being SHSL Gymnast means an immunity to a high concentration of "poison" she must have just ingested if that were the case). That and Nidai hasn't even Eaten yet. We don't have any hints that something poisonous was used on people prior to the Murder (Hell, if you could poison people like that why do you even NEED to Knife someone?). It wasn't even hinted that poison exists on the island. let alone, in an immediately accessible manner. Anyways, if it bothers you that I that I took Pekoyama's vagueness and Lower-body pain to mean something natural was happening down there, then I sincerely apologize. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 4, 2013 00:59
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Skunkrocker posted:Why can't Peko just be allergic to that food? If she were allergic, wouldn't she need serious medical attention and not a toilet? Arsonist Daria fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 01:00
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:If she were allergic, wouldn't she need serious medical attention and not a toilet? Depends on what sort of allergy she has. If it's anaphylaxis then she's about to die without an emergency medical injection. Or it could just be severe stomach cramping, which is food intolerance.
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Mar 4, 2013 01:52
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Ok, let me put this in a simple metaphor that you all should understand. This line of conversation, and all lines of conversation like it, lead you through this door. I am the pissed off goose on the other side. Consider using other the other door.
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Mar 4, 2013 01:52
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Wait just one second!orenronen posted:
That's a Direct contradiction to what he said when he accused Pekoyama! He said he made it to the Breaker's room and couldn't see her!
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Mar 4, 2013 01:52
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You flipped the breakers back up, Big Bro Souda?! Good for you! You actually managed to be useful for once!
Uh... well, actually... I didn’t make it to the office -- that’s where the breakers are, see -- before the power came back on...
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Not quite. He said he didn't make it there before the lights came back on. He could of gotten there after they were flipped on.
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Mar 4, 2013 02:00
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Doesn't that just mean that when he got there and the lights were on he didn't see her? I mean, by definition he wouldn't have seen her if he got to the office while the lights were still out and everything was pitch black. Or is there some other contradiction that I'm not getting?
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Mar 4, 2013 02:01
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The Evidence Bullet has his statement as...Souda's Testimony posted:Souda went straight to the office during the search for Togami after the lights came back on. The office was empty and Pekoyama was nowhere to be found. So no, it isn't a contradiction.
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Mar 4, 2013 03:06
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Joenen posted:Its possible but a bit unlikely given at that age you usually are aware of what you can and can't eat. While I doubt it's something like an allergy too, and it's probably either poisoning or a natural sickness or something, allergies aren't cut-and-dry like that. You get allergies for things like gluten, and products can be quite inconsistent. It's unlikely, but being aware of your own allergy doesn't necessarily always protect you. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:If she were allergic, wouldn't she need serious medical attention and not a toilet? Pretty much what Brannock said. Hell, some "allergies" aren't even that severe. Vomiting is one of many different kinds of symptoms for that. The thing is, those are all unnecessary explanations for it. The game would have to go more out of its way to explain her having an allergy than her just being sick. Unless she's poisoned, the reasoning for her sickness would be inconsequential anyway. It'd offer nothing to this investigation to discuss how she got sick. Unless you're discussing whether it was possible to have been poisoned or not, there's absolutely no point in that discussion at all. As for an actual theory regarding being poisoned; I don't even think there's room for her to be poisoned. Someone would have had to have known that she'd be the guard to poison the food. Nobody else (bar a possible Nidai, who was also used for comic relief and just... y'know... needs to do his business like any ordinary human being) has shown any symptoms. What would have poisoned her? She was probably just sick.
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Mar 4, 2013 04:36
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So, for the bloody sheet: could it have been used as a covering to stop someone from getting blood on them when they stabbed the victim? I've seen it used on Dexter, so..
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Mar 4, 2013 05:16
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the_steve posted:I really don't like Nagito's chances right now. Between his being suspicious as hell, and the irony of Togami being killed by the Naegi analogue, it just seems the most likely. One question I'd like answered: in the analysis of who said what in the dark, Togami called out to someone to "stop that" and then Nagito said "ow." Why did Nagito say "ow?" Seems like a question we should expect him to answer.
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Mar 4, 2013 05:22
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I'm curious as to why Nagito wants to go search Togami's cottage, of all things. From an investigative standpoint, there are plenty of other things they could be doing instead that would be far more likely to provide relevant information. (For instance, finding out where the hell Yakuza Dude has been all this time.) I suspect Nagito's got his own agenda here. Narsham posted:One question I'd like answered: in the analysis of who said what in the dark, Togami called out to someone to "stop that" and then Nagito said "ow." 
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Mar 4, 2013 05:39
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^^^ We find plot points, Nagito tampers with potential evidence. Everybody wins.
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Mar 4, 2013 05:55
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This poison vs sickness vs whatever issue is frustrating me, but one thing to remember is that Nagito's the one pushing the "only Akane and Peko ate it, guys!" angle. It could be his attempt to throw suspicion somewhere else... which we can then shut down with the Monobear file, or with a bullet of Akane's testimony if she turns out to be fine. That leaves it as a very convenient coincidence though, that the guard got sick right after she went on guard duty. You'd think she wouldn't volunteer for that if she was already feeling sick. Unless that really was her plan, to curl up alone out of the way in a quiet room to try and feel better?
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Mar 4, 2013 06:01
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DaveWoo posted:I'm curious as to why Nagito wants to go search Togami's cottage, of all things. From an investigative standpoint, there are plenty of other things they could be doing instead that would be far more likely to provide relevant information. (For instance, finding out where the hell Yakuza Dude has been all this time.) I can't begin to guess why Nagito would want to go there, but something we might expect to find there as evidence is some item that contradicts the idea of Togami being a student from this class. Just as an example: he could still have one of the photos from DR1 or something. We the readers know he's not from this class, after all, and what Monobear has been trying to do lately is provoke the students into deciding one among them is an odd-man-out "traitor". The motive he provides always comes back within the case in some way, and Hinata hasn't caught up to the reader's realization that there was something really off about Togami being on Jabberwock Island to begin with.
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Mar 4, 2013 06:15
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Ugh. Well, I have to give this case credit, I really don't know who did it. Most of the DR1 cases we figured out pretty quick. Barring it being Nagito, this one isn't going to be solved until we get a look at a few other things. First, where the heck is Kuzuryuu? Second, just who or what is in the bathroom? Did they lock it so and poison all the food so that most people would end up having to go back to their hotels since the bathroom isn't available and thus allow them to kill isolated people? Or is Kuzuryuu in there? Third, what's under the floorboards and how do we get in there? Or rather, how did the killer? I have a feeling that we're going to get a few more questions by getting those answers.
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Mar 4, 2013 06:17
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I think that we've had some pretty great theories, but there are at least a few more updates before the trial I think. We'll just have to wait and see
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Mar 4, 2013 06:34
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The Devil Tesla posted:Man, generally by this point in the investigation I'd have an idea who the murderer was, like a short list of possible suspects that are probably all red herrings but at least something, but while we have the general idea of how things went down it's entirely unclear whodunit. I don't necessarily think we won't know before the trial's over. Investigation's not over. Obviously it's a far more complicated first case than that of the first game, but I think a lot of the evidence isn't going to turn out to be all that relevant. The question is which evidence directly ties into the murder. Also, I think at this point the suspect list is not huge. My list would be: 1. Hanamura - Not in the main area when the blackout happened, had access to the appliances and was in the lodge all day, could have taken and hidden the skewer earlier. 2. Souda - a mechanic, and therefore obviously had the knowhow to cause the blackout. Also, I don't like how he's trying to foist suspicion on Peko. 3. Nagito - Most people would probably have him as suspect #1, but (while I don't like using meta/storytelling logic to predict things) I can't see him out of the game only at the end of the first trial. He's just been built up too much; there's SOMETHING going on there. That said, the evidence against him is pretty impressive. 4. Peko - Wasn't in hall, Souda claims she also wasn't in the office where she was supposed to be. Where was she? Some people have said she may be sick for some reason, but perhaps Souda is right at least in thinking she was feigning illness to get out of answering any questions. 5. Kuryuzuu - Because he has got no alibi at all and nobody knows where the hell he is or what he's been doing. I don't count Gundam because the earring thing was probably only meant to draw attention to the space under the floor. I'd bet on Souda or Hanamura, myself.
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Mar 4, 2013 07:58
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I am completely convinced that it's not Nagito. The blood pattern on the knife and Togami's positioning both mean that Nagito would have to have used the skewer, yet the skewer was not in the main room. I think that this exonerates him from being the actual stabber
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Mar 4, 2013 08:28
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The controller of Monobear 2.0 is definitely less efficient than Junko. Kuryuzuu is still nowhere to be found despite Monobear saying he'd get him out. And Hanamura's testimony is not helping him at all. As I mentioned a few updates ago, it is very strange for him to stumble into the hall from the kitchen during the blackout and stumble back out afterwards. The fire door is probably not automatic and was used by the culprit to shut off Souda's route to the breaker. Nagito is still suspicious as ever. Why would you want to dismiss that bloody piece of tablecloth and investigate Togami's lodge for no good reason?
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Mar 4, 2013 08:54
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Actually, in regards to whoever is controlling this Monobear, there is something really wrong with their approach. This blackout was pretty obviously a thing the culprit engineered and Monobear would know that for sure because of the cameras in the lodge. Intervening in the blackout by putting a stop to it seems really bizarre for someone who acts as Judge, Jury and Executioner. Monobear is in charge of facilitating the trials, but actively participating in an ongoing crime seems very strange. Unless he decided that it was ok to do that because Togami was already dead by the time the switch was flipped.
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Mar 4, 2013 08:59
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Joenen posted:I just don't think Pekoyama was poisoned. We haven't received any actual hints of poison. It was confirmed that Togami wasn't poisoned despite probably having scarfed as much food as Owari if not more. I know Joenen can't respond, but this is wrong. Togami only scarfed the food that was on the skewers so he could confiscate them, and we have an evidence bullet about the large chunk of meat saying that only Owari and Pekoyama ate it. We also haven't talked to Owari since the start of the investigation, so we don't know that she wasn't affected.
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Mar 4, 2013 09:00
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So far I also don't think it was Nagito, though he's acting suspicious as hell, because we've got this:Nagito posted:I'm gonna do it. and this: Nagito posted:To tell you the truth, it hasn't even crossed my mind. Or, maybe I should say, I don't want it to. And from all we've seen of him, he could be weird enough to actually mean this. Maybe he's covering up the murder for anyone, because he doesn't want there to be a murder. Sure everyone dies, but it's an ideological victory, right? 
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Mar 4, 2013 09:05
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So here's a crazy theory. What if Peko is faking being poisoned? Togami has been medically cleared by monobear of poison and Akane is showing no signs. While peko did take separate food I see no evidence of food being specially prepared for her and if it was then I can't imagine it not being pointed out with poison being involved. Peko was not at the breakers because she was sick? Ok, then where was she? Not the bathroom as that's been locked the whole time, even after Togami's death when she would of had to of gotten out. If Peko wasn't poisoned then she would of been free to move around and set up the blackout. The air conditioner in the main room she would not of had access to and all the appliances in the kitchen she wouldn't of. This creates problems with the idea of her creating the blackout. However, the irons were unplugged before the party started so the only people who could of had access to them are Kuzuryuu, Peko, Chiaki (who likely has Monomi as an alibi), and Nidai. Where did the poison come from? This is important. You can't just have poison magically show up. That is bad mystery writing and they specifically avoided that in Dangan Ronpa 1. The only theoretical place for poison is the super market because it carries crazy stuff like night vision goggles. The only people who could of used the sheet as a cover to stop blood are Hanamura, Kuzuryuu, Peko, Chiaki(again alibi), and Souda. Everyone else was present when the lights came back on. This is running on the assumption that there was not enough time to get back. There is also the question of how Peko hid the knife. The skewer and the floor boards are unaccounted for as well as the firelocking doors. Peko being the culprit doesn't add up yet. There are too many things that don't add up about Peko herself though for me to be willing to dismiss her as a red herring like everyone else has. Oh, and to the people that are saying that Monobear meant the culprit of the blackout. That makes no sense. He'd be redundant by saying the person who caused the blackout was the culprit of the blackout. Deceptive fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 09:06
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lotus circle posted:Actually, in regards to whoever is controlling this Monobear, there is something really wrong with their approach. This blackout was pretty obviously a thing the culprit engineered and Monobear would know that for sure because of the cameras in the lodge. Intervening in the blackout by putting a stop to it seems really bizarre for someone who acts as Judge, Jury and Executioner. Monobear is in charge of facilitating the trials, but actively participating in an ongoing crime seems very strange. Unless he decided that it was ok to do that because Togami was already dead by the time the switch was flipped. Wasn't Monobear a bit more helpful than usual during the first case in the first game as well? I mean, there's that time during the trial when he says, "no, there's no accomplice." I get the feeling that he kinda likes to push the kids into catching the culprit pretty easily when it's just their first trial. Then again, that probably doesn't matter at all, since Monobear in this case is probably someone else, since Junko got squished pretty thoroughly in the last game.
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Mar 4, 2013 09:32
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