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Leperflesh posted:But feel free to completely ignore what I'm saying. I only have to work with it pretty much on a daily basis. Oh wise sage of sewage, it sounds like you've dealt a lot with sewers, but not so much with compost and composting toilets. I have, in fact, emptied - and been around while it's being emptied - my family's two composting toilets. The best way that I can think of to describe what comes out of those toilets is "dirt". It smells like dirt, looks like dirt, and when you move it to the pile, people don't even see it because it's so apparently dirt. This may be because those toilets are only used for 1 to 3/5ths of the year by friends and family and so they have a lot of rest time, or it may just be a characteristic of composting toilets. Dusseldorf posted:I'm mainly confused how this can be construed as an environmental decision. http://www.sun-mar.com/tech_envi.html
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Mar 5, 2013 13:07
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They work better if you don't piss in the bucket. Piss in a cup instead.
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Mar 5, 2013 14:17
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I could see this maybe working out, but knowing tuyop somehow he's going to get cholera and typhoid from this.
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Mar 5, 2013 14:20
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tuyop posted:Oh wise sage of sewage You rang? No Wave posted:You poop six pounds of poo poo per day? I do know that sewage volume is approximately 600L per person per day in a metropolis in north america. That is 600kg or so. Per day. It does sounds hard to believe. This figure includes all commercial and industrial uses in a modern metropolis. I do know in Montreal the figure is UPWARDS of 1000L per person per day. A metric ton a day per person. In Victoria BC they discharge all sewage without ANY treatment; and they don't give no fucks. Anything you pore down the drain in Victoria its like you are just poring it into the pacific. I think they have screens on their outlets, but that is it. In Canada most cities have "combined" sewer systems which discharge raw untreated sewage into a convenient body of water when it rains. tuyop posted:
I drink Coca-Cola for the environmental and social justice benefit it has. Check out their website!
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Mar 5, 2013 14:42
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Baloogan posted:You rang? But each person isn't producing 600L of poo poo per day; I assume that includes water and such. A quick google search did not return a number for how much poo poo a person produces, but I did find that the average American eats about 2200 lbs of food per year. Assuming that you're not gaining too much weight, most of that's gotta come out, so I'm willing to assume that the average American produces 2200 lbs of bodily waste per year. It's probably similar for Canadians. edit: This works out to about 6 lbs/day. miryei fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 15:06
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miryei posted:But each person isn't producing 600L of poo poo per day; I assume that includes water and such. A significant amount of your food is turned into heat and energy. Don't make me weigh my poop with a luggage scale and a bucket for 30 days in order to get an average per day waste weight... In Halifax, where I'm from, nearly 500 000 people poop directly into the harbour. I lived like 900m away from one of the outlets, seagulls love that poo poo. It was a long, expensive process, but we managed to get it all treated with plants before we dumped it a few years ago. Then the power went out and one of the main treatment plants for Dartmouth filled up with sludge and had to be gutted, IIRC. Baloogan posted:I drink Coca-Cola for the environmental and social justice benefit it has. Check out their website! OK, I made a couple of flowcharts because I'm weird like that and I have the day off, and a man can only JO and nap so much.  This is the current, totally excellent hydraulic waste management system. Notice that it is linear and requires inputs from the environment (dirt/dirt substitutes and chemicals) to keep functioning.  This is the proposed, totally disgusting and inconceivably retarded waste management system. Notice that the only input is sunlight. I mean, you'd have to be RETARDED to compost your waste, right? Edit: And I don't think producing too much fertilizer is a legitimate complaint. I mean seriously, you're talking about the best problem ever, where the solution is to literally produce more food. If you can't eat all the food, and everyone you know can't eat it either, put it in the pile with everything else and feed it to next years' vegetables. tuyop fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 15:45
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask / Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Tuyop's in Deep poo poo Now
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Mar 5, 2013 15:48
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You're forgetting the part where the poo poo acts as an incubator for a whole host of deadly microbes, which will gently caress you up if you get exposed to them. The sewage system in a city is not ideal, however it is certainly better than everybody making their own compost which could still be contaminated. What if some of this compost leaks and your next door neighbours' kid gets cholera? I would have a lot more time for that website if it included a part explaining that you need to be very careful when handling this stuff. It would be fine in an isolated house in the countryside, but it's a terrible idea in any high density place. I understand why you want to do this, but what are you planning to do with the compost? If it's grow food, are you aware that if you get this wrong you could well end up with dysentery?
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Mar 5, 2013 16:05
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Keep it as a fascination. Thanks.
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Mar 5, 2013 16:38
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Are you guys aware that large numbers of people in other countries have been composting their poo poo and using it for fertilizer for centuries and still do today? Sure it might be pretty useless for this one guy to do it, but stop acting like it's a bad idea in general.
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Mar 5, 2013 16:45
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tuyop posted:
It's only linear if you look at it primarily as a waste cycle (when waste is really just a mere byproduct of our food cycle) and ignore the presence of water as both an input and an output (also making the cycle circular). According to Baloogan, in Canada the water usually isn't treated at all, so no chemicals at all - it goes right back into nature! No one thinks that reducing your resource consumption and reusing what you can is "retarded" (poor choice of words, I'd say). No one's really got an issue with your proposed waste management cycle, it's just that there's a very good reason that the "poop collects in a pile" phase usually takes place in a sewage treatment plant a few miles away rather than in your living room, and it's the same reason we stopped using human waste as fertilizer when modern fertilizers and waste treatment techniques became available: human waste is smelly, unsanitary, and is a major carrier of disease. The use of crap as fertilizer is the primary factor in the spread of many diseases and parasites in undeveloped countries. It's not just disgusting, it's outright dangerous. Arakan posted:Are you guys aware that large numbers of people in other countries have been composting their poo poo and using it for fertilizer for centuries and still do today? Sure it might be pretty useless for this one guy to do it, but stop acting like it's a bad idea in general. This is the reason why many diseases that are so rare in the developed world are so common in undeveloped countries. There are a lot of diseases and parasites that spread almost exclusively through human poo poo, and crap-as-fertilizer contaminates the food supply with those organisms. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 16:49
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Wait so where does the, um, human to bucket transfer take place? Do you go outside? Is it an outhouse? That's going to be chilly. Surely not in your abode???? Is this covered in the manual?
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Mar 5, 2013 17:14
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Requesting (long overdue) shitpost tag
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Mar 5, 2013 17:15
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HipGnosis posted:Wait so where does the, um, human to bucket transfer take place? Do you go outside? Is it an outhouse? That's going to be chilly. Surely not in your abode???? Is this covered in the manual? It's a bucket with a toilet seat. What he's talking about is actually doable, just... Kind of useless in his situation.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:20
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*Wants to live sustainably* *Causes public health crisis*
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Mar 5, 2013 18:05
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I guess I'm not getting why this is superior to a standard septic tank. There's plenty of stuff around to compost, it's not like there's a big need to add human waste to the mix.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:17
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Human poo as fertilizer doesn't fall under the organic food label, right? RIGHT? Because suddenly I'm feeling really paranoid about where my food is coming from.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:18
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Arakan posted:Are you guys aware that large numbers of people in other countries have been composting their poo poo and using it for fertilizer for centuries and still do today? Sure it might be pretty useless for this one guy to do it, but stop acting like it's a bad idea in general. He's in Canada. All of his options for glorious poo poo-grown BASIL include some manner of being frozen solid, not composting properly or smelling like poo poo. Or all three. Also, there's a big correlation between people who compost their poo poo in the developing world and people who die of cholera.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:29
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Yeah, I always wonder if there's a reason we invented our way out of composting our poo poo. Is it the Plumbing Industrial Complex coercing us though?
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Mar 5, 2013 18:37
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Main Paineframe posted:This is the reason why many diseases that are so rare in the developed world are so common in undeveloped countries. There are a lot of diseases and parasites that spread almost exclusively through human poo poo, and crap-as-fertilizer contaminates the food supply with those organisms. There's a reason people have tried to avoid using their own poop as fertilizer once they figured out what fertilizer was. And before you go "I don't have any intestinal diseases, so my poo poo is safe!", bear in mind that it's entirely possible to be carrying certain bacteria and parasites without showing symptoms.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:41
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Main Paineframe posted:According to Baloogan, in Canada the water usually isn't treated at all, so no chemicals at all - it goes right back into nature! It is usually treated ... except when it rains in places with a combined sewer. Combined sewers are sewers which also take drainwater and have the ability when overloaded to dump out the wastewater into a nearby body of water. I'm just trying to internet-shame places where it isn't at ALL treated. Like Victoria BC. I don't even think they have serious plans to change.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:48
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tuyop posted:Oh wise sage of sewage, it sounds like you've dealt a lot with sewers, but not so much with compost and composting toilets. The quotebox you had here had my name on it, and linked to my post, but it contained words I didn't type. Not sure how you managed to do that. miryei posted:A quick google search did not return a number for how much poo poo a person produces, but I did find that the average American eats about 2200 lbs of food per year. Assuming that you're not gaining too much weight, most of that's gotta come out, so I'm willing to assume that the average American produces 2200 lbs of bodily waste per year. It's probably similar for Canadians. A large percentage of the volume of human solid waste is actually dead intestinal bacteria and its waste. It's the only reason we're able to digest most of the stuff we eat. So I suspect the math for mass of food in vs. mass of poop out is made more complicated by this fact.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:53
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Do whatever you want with your poop, and we'll do whatever we want with ours. Aside from our generalized concern for your well-being, and anxiety that you and Twoshoes will end up perpetually reeking like a Calcutta diarrhea clinic on free curry day, we only care that you took a windfall of money and immediately blew it on something you definitely don't need because 'hey, free money!' Regardless of how important environmental ethics are to you, this was still an impulse purchase, which is a bad habit. The fact that is was about how to grow a poop colony in your backyard just made it fun to yell at you for a while.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:19
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HipGnosis posted:Yeah, I always wonder if there's a reason we invented our way out of composting our poo poo. Is it the Plumbing Industrial Complex coercing us though? I wondered this awhile ago as well, and... I HAVE A THEORY. Way way back, and for most of human history (prehistory?), we were hunter-gatherers. We probably just poo poo in the woods and bushes with the bears and stuff. We probably also sometimes died of intestinal diseases or other nasties from animals dying in water or something. These risks were mitigated by the fact that we could simply pick up and move once an environment became too foul. Hundreds of thousands of years passed this way. I personally subscribe to Paul Collier's (and others) theory of civilization. The theory goes something like this: people have always been scared of other groups of people, which makes sense in a hunter-gatherer economy because you're really only one bad encounter away from a horrible death at the hands of another group of humans, or they'll just steal your furs and rape/kidnap your women and you will be upset. So, over time the most successful groups were the groups that dedicated a portion of their productive energy to training and maintaining a portion of the population whose job was to simply do violence against other humans. The alternative being, of course, to work at diplomacy and try to understand other groups of people and share with each other for our collective betterment. Unfortunately, training and maintaining violent people among you is a mimetic hazard. Groups who did not invest in this ad hoc class division were easily and quickly disposed of by groups who had. As more and more groups pick up this class division in order to survive, it becomes necessary to increase the size of your groups to maintain protection and dominance, and organize the whole operation somehow. A class of rulers emerges which has a further vested interest in organizing the labour of the farmers/hunters and gatherers and keeping the warriors occupied, while at the same time depending on the products of everyone else for their continued existence. In order for this class to succeed, we needed predictable, consistent returns and so we started farming intensively. Unfortunately, now we can't leave an area once it becomes too foul, so waste management becomes necessary. As the size of our population grows, we have to produce more warriors and more rulers and keep everyone busy making war and organizing and making sure that the farmers know that it's really necessary that we keep going on this way to stay safe from "them". One of the contradictions of this critical, industrial mass, is that we create an environment that cannot support life without a lot of inputs from the environment. We need food, water, materials from "away" and all the garbage and poo poo that that mass of humanity produces has to go "away" somehow without killing all of us. Things really came to a head with industrialization when cities really exploded, and we figured out the most efficient ways to take stuff from "away", use it, make it useless and then literally flush it "away", like railroads, refrigeration, and hydraulic sewage. But I don't really think we can keep living that way indefinitely without some major changes in transporting, storing, using, and disposing of all of the stuff that our economy needs to keep us all going. I also think that the whole raison d'etre of our economy should be critically examined by anyone with a brain, but that's really beside the point of making GBS threads in a bucket and putting it in your backyard. Tl;dr: modern sewage systems are the ultimate manifestation of the destruction of, and alienation from, the environment and human dignity and brotherhood in order to endlessly enrich a few shortsighted, pitiful members of our species.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:42
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If you really want to look at it that way it's communities that are the manifestation of (insert retarded babble here) and sewers are a thing we made so people in communities wouldn't drop dead so often from disease.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:07
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Does anybody have a link to that thread about the guy who lived in a tent with his sick wife and ate rotten meat? I don't know why, this feels relevant.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:13
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FrozenVent posted:Does anybody have a link to that thread about the guy who lived in a tent with his sick wife and ate rotten meat? I read that thread! I remember thinking that that guy was really messed up. 
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Mar 5, 2013 20:20
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tuyop posted:I wondered this awhile ago as well, and... I HAVE A THEORY *wallows around in own faeces*
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Mar 5, 2013 20:21
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Tuyop: making GBS threads in a bucket for the environment; burns more gasoline than many third-world countries for vacation
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Mar 5, 2013 20:23
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Nocheez posted:Tuyop: making GBS threads in a bucket for the environment; burns more gasoline than many third-world countries for vacation Tuyop: Anyone who doesn't poo poo in their neighbour's drinking water is scum
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Mar 5, 2013 20:29
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Tuyop: I remember thinking that that guy was really messed up
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Mar 5, 2013 20:35
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Tuyop: Out of the pile of debt, into the pile of poo poo
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Mar 5, 2013 20:39
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tuyop posted:Oh wise sage of sewage, it sounds like you've dealt a lot with sewers, but not so much with compost and composting toilets. Tuyop, just so you know, you have pretty much proven why you get so much grief from everyone in this thread. You come up with a half-assed idea, then people with actual experience in said area come in and give you a few reasons why it's a bad idea and at the very least you need to do more research. Then you respond with something like this, and your half-assed flowcharts below which show a total lack of understanding of the topic at hand, and hand-wave away any problems because it's an idea you like. You may think I was being a smartass, and I was, but I also have experience in this poo poo.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:43
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ANYWAY, I forgot to mention.  March is: Buy Nothing New Month Anything we buy in March must either: a) be directly consumable, like gasoline or food, or b) directly replace something that is sold or donated. I bought the Humanure Handbook in February. So far, we have not bought: A cookbook (with a Chapters gift card I found from a couple of years ago): $36 And we sold: An iPhone: $300 A pico projector that was a Christmas present: $70 Then bought an LG flip phone: $0 Also, we've made progress toward reducing: Cell phone: $175/month > 50.85/month Credit Card Finance charges: $199/month > $88/month (woop, balance transfers!) Things on the chopping block: Car insurance: $222, This will go down, hopefully to $0 this summer, but I got a quote for $67/month in Alberta in case we don't get rid of the car, which is where we'll probably be moving. Internet: $56, hoping to share this once we move and get it down below $30/month. I'd like to try getting rid of it completely, though. Rent: $800, looking at apartments for June, it seems like we can room with someone for around $600. Other than getting rid of our "fun money", I think that's the only discretionary stuff that we have.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:57
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tuyop posted:Tl;dr: modern sewage systems are the ultimate manifestation of the destruction of, and alienation from, the environment and human dignity and brotherhood in order to endlessly enrich a few shortsighted, pitiful members of our species. I don't really get what the hell your theory about the origin of warfare has to do with making GBS threads in buckets, but the people who dealt with human poo poo were often reviled even when those practices were commonplace. In the UK, the people who collected poo poo were only allowed to live in certain areas, were only allowed to work at night (hence the euphemism "night soil" to refer to human fertilizer), and were required to take the stuff out of the city or town boundaries. In India, poo poo collectors were considered untouchables and only allowed to marry other poo poo collectors. Collecting human poo poo was never a dignified profession.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:00
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tuyop posted:Tl;dr: modern sewage systems are the ultimate manifestation of the destruction of, and alienation from, the environment and human dignity and brotherhood in order to endlessly enrich a few shortsighted, pitiful members of our species. I agree. We should totally respect the right of cholera bacteria to kill us. I mean, they're just mindless organisms. It's not like they have any sense of morality, so why should we hold that against them? They've got as much right to live as we do.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:21
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tuyop: How does composting your poo poo remove heavy metals from it? We excrete all kind of toxic and indigestible substances, and surprise-surprise, the things we can't digest a lot of detritovores can't digest either. What this means is that humanure compost piles usually act as a way to concentrate highly-toxic, indegistible waste. Please read some more sources on humanure other than those produced within the echo chamber of other humanure nuts.
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Mar 5, 2013 23:57
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bam thwok posted:Regardless of how important environmental ethics are to you, this was still an impulse purchase, which is a bad habit. I'm rather curious what else you expected him to buy with an Amazon gift card? Someone mentined it earlier, but isn't Amazon just books and dvds etc in the majority of countries? (thats all I know it as in Australia), so the only thing he could buy is "fun stuff"? On an earlier thread note, Tuyop I'm all for the no soap thing, its bad for your skin anyway, BUT you must bathe frequently and use body spray etc to pull it off in modern society
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Mar 6, 2013 00:03
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Tuyop might want to look into sewer inspection as a potential career if he is perfectly fine with poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2013 00:05
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Devious_05 posted:I'm rather curious what else you expected him to buy with an Amazon gift card? Someone mentined it earlier, but isn't Amazon just books and dvds etc in the majority of countries? (thats all I know it as in Australia), so the only thing he could buy is "fun stuff"? In America, they have pretty much everything you could want to buy 
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Mar 6, 2013 00:40
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