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Docjowles posted:The beer could have had a very mild infection that was totally unnoticeable when you drank the bulk of it, but given a year, has developed to the point where you can taste it. Acidity is a common flavor associated with infections. Thanks, specifically how is a bottle conditioned homebrew that sitting on lees going to age differently as opposed to a commercially bottled imperial stout that is probably filtered and has no lees?
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Mar 12, 2013 20:34
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Mammon Loves You posted:Thanks, specifically how is a bottle conditioned homebrew that sitting on lees going to age differently as opposed to a commercially bottled imperial stout that is probably filtered and has no lees? Unless there's an unusually large amount of yeast in the bottle it won't make too much difference. It might actually age better since the yeast will scavenge some of the O2 out of the beer, limiting oxidation. Over time, yeast do eventually die and undergo "autolysis" where they essentially burst open and spill their yeast guts. This can lead to flavors often compared to meat, soy sauce or rubber. I've never heard of this being attributable to yeast in the bottle because its such a teeny amount but in theory it could be a thing.
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Mar 12, 2013 21:18
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zedprime posted:I had an idle thought eating one of the oat bars that make up so much of my diet. What % of oat are we talking? Not too long ago in Europe they made beer almost entirely from oat and they weren't good, they were for the poor.
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Mar 12, 2013 21:31
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Midorka posted:Not too long ago in Europe they made beer almost entirely from oat and they weren't good, they were for the poor. I thought oats were more for body and not fermentable sugars? This reminds me, I think in Japan or China, some wild scientist is working on poop meat.
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Mar 12, 2013 21:58
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Marshmallow Blue posted:I thought oats were more for body and not fermentable sugars? This reminds me, I think in Japan or China, some wild scientist is working on poop meat. There are starches in oats and most other grains that can be converted. They just don't have any enzymes to convert the starches to sugars and the starches are generally not available without a cereal mash.
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Mar 12, 2013 22:10
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Marshmallow Blue posted:I thought oats were more for body and not fermentable sugars? This reminds me, I think in Japan or China, some wild scientist is working on poop meat. That's what we use them for now, but I'm talking like 1800s (I believe) Belgium and such. They'd brew almost all oat beers and there hasn't been any kind things to say about them. Also I'm getting ready to bottle my witbier and have used TastyBrews calculator for priming. I decided to also check Northern Brewer. Northern Brewer has the volumes at 3, which is said to be high, which is what a witbier is. Tastybrew had it at 2.4. I used TastyBrew for my mild which it suggested something like 1.2. There's almost no carbonation in it. I thought it was due to there not being enough yeast due to me cold crashing it for a week, but I guess it was TastyBrew's fault. I'll stick with Northern Brewer's calculator now.
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Mar 12, 2013 22:26
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So our first batch will be ready monday (bottled on march 4th evening). I realize how badly we hosed up being st patties day is sunday. Please tell me i can drink all of it a day early and it will be carbonated.
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Mar 12, 2013 23:28
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Midorka posted:What % of oat are we talking? Not too long ago in Europe they made beer almost entirely from oat and they weren't good, they were for the poor. >50%. Poor people beer sounds awesome I am totally doing this now, and freeze distilling oat hooch if its truly terrible.
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Mar 12, 2013 23:29
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Crunkjuice posted:So our first batch will be ready monday (bottled on march 4th evening). I realize how badly we hosed up being st patties day is sunday. Please tell me i can drink all of it a day early and it will be carbonated. It might not be perfect, but it will be beer and it will have bubbles in it. It's not like it magically goes from completely flat to carbonated overnight.
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Mar 12, 2013 23:46
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Midorka posted:That's what we use them for now, but I'm talking like 1800s (I believe) Belgium and such. They'd brew almost all oat beers and there hasn't been any kind things to say about them. Historical beer seems as though it was probably pretty crappy; anything prior to the 1800s or so is mostly smoke flavored since they didn't have a way to malt without direct smoke and they didn't exactly have star-san and sanitary tri-clover clamps.
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Mar 13, 2013 00:09
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Angry Grimace posted:Historical beer seems as though it was probably pretty crappy; anything prior to the 1800s or so is mostly smoke flavored since they didn't have a way to malt without direct smoke and they didn't exactly have star-san and sanitary tri-clover clamps. Rauchbier was one of those hilarious inventions of 19th century Germany when every city was trying to out gimmick the other while being constrained by the purity law.
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Mar 13, 2013 00:38
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zedprime posted:I had an idle thought eating one of the oat bars that make up so much of my diet. Except for the part where you boil the oats into goo, this is a recipe in Radical Brewing. You just spread quick oats on a baking sheet, toast them until they smell like cookies, cool, and use them in the mash. I've done this with a few pounds and it works out nicely, giving a good toasty character. At 50+%, no idea. If I were doing a beer with that high a percentage of oats, I would probably just use oat malt.
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Mar 13, 2013 00:53
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Jo3sh posted:Except for the part where you boil the oats into goo, this is a recipe in Radical Brewing. You just spread quick oats on a baking sheet, toast them until they smell like cookies, cool, and use them in the mash. I've done this with a few pounds and it works out nicely, giving a good toasty character. e. bringing it up in the thread has really just been an excuse to use the word vienn-oat but I wasn't thinking about oat malt so I guess I got more than I had expected. zedprime fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 01:50
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Maybe just toast some of the oat malt or even roast it.
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Mar 13, 2013 02:02
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Hey, looky what I found: http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com/2009/12/100-oat-malt-mt-rainier-hops-smash-beer.html
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Mar 13, 2013 02:08
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Dry roast some oat malt to make some viennoat. Wet bake a brick of raw oats for crystoat 60. Hit the starch with the fury only 6-row can produce. Balance 2-row because even if its a peasants beer its got to be somewhat classy. I'm only scared it makes so much sense.
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Mar 13, 2013 02:12
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zedprime posted:Wet bake a brick of raw oats for crystoat 60. I would think you would need make a small mash for a while (it looks like the diastatic power kinda sucks so maybe some 6-row in there too) to develop some sugars, then heat it with the lid on to make caramel color and flavor. Maybe in a pressure cooker or something.
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Mar 13, 2013 02:37
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Docjowles posted:Beer doesn't really "go bad" without an external force like wild yeast/bacteria. It can oxidize over time but that gives you more of a wet paper flavor, not tangy. Big, dark beers like imperial stouts and barleywines can actually stand up to that aging and develop pleasant flavors. What do you think the limit to that is? A few years ago my friend's dad was cleaning out a bottle collection (not a "cellar" collection mind you. a "weird poo poo I am going to keep in my cabinet for an indefinite amount of time" collection) and my friend ended up giving me a couple bottles of guinness foreign extra stout from Indonesia that are apparently like twenty years old. I've kept them around just because, but the idea that they might not taste like rear end has got my curiosity going.
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Mar 13, 2013 03:20
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zedprime posted:Dry roast some oat malt to make some viennoat. Wet bake a brick of raw oats for crystoat 60. Man it turns out every word sounds way funnier with "oat" tacked on the end. Make a SMaSH beer with oats and Amarillo. Amarilloat. Bowrrl posted:What do you think the limit to that is? Gonna say after 20 years they are probably not very enjoyable, but you should still try one, can't hurt. The only thing that can kill you in beer is the booze.
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Mar 13, 2013 03:39
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Re: Oatmeal Toasted oats in beer are awesome! Supposedly toasted oats can add an astringent flavor to beer. If you want them really roasty, put them in a muslin bag and let them air out for a week after toasting (this is supposed to help). For me, toasting 1lb/5gal recipe (OGs having ranged from ~1.030 to ~1.090) for 40 mins and using them directly with no problems. If you are using real oats, you have to cereal mash them, I'm lazy so I use quick oats. They add a really wonderful creamy mouthfeel to the beers, which is why many wits use untoasted oats. Untoasted, they are relatively flavor neutral at the levels I've been using them. Toasted they add a nice "oatmeal cookie" flavor that really compliments darker English and American beers. Supposedly, the high oat content beers from the 19th century were incredibly bitter. I haven't gone higher than 10% so I don't really know but if you are going that direction I'd probably go a little light on the hops. Also, oats have plenty of protein so a protein rest would probably be worth your while. Doubly so since you are probably using 6-row for the conversion in a high adjunct beer. It will be an adjunct beer because oats are evidently really hard to malt. The super thick head from just 10% oats suggests that a higher oat content beer would be a heady affair indeed. Thinking of oats has me curious. I'm thinking about an oat sake. That would be pretty wild. Anybody know what a high protein content does to a sake? Re: Sanitation Always remember that people have been brewing beers for thousands of years. As long as you aren't grinding grains where you are brewing and aren't planning on aging your beer for a significant period of time and are pitching correctly basic kitchen sanitation works just fine. People freak out about this stuff too much. You don't want to be too lax because you can catastrophically ruin your beer (or let it sit and make an artesianal Flemish sour!) but in general I think that most home brewers freak out too much over sanitation. That said, whatever you use to dechlorinate your water (provided it is sodium metabisulfite, which you should be using unless you are using distilled water and adding salts to avoid chlorine) should also be able to take care of bleach at slightly higher concentrations. So if you want to use bleach, go for it. Then again, metabisulfite is also pretty good at taking care of beer spoiling organisms, so just treat your liquor in the carboy with a little bit more of the campden tablet or a few more drops of the dechlor you bought from the pet store.
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Mar 13, 2013 05:44
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Shbobdb posted:in general I think that most home brewers freak out too much over sanitation. I agree - brewing is much more like cooking than surgery. I presume you all have fed yourself or even others without causing any real illness. If you can make a hamburger that won't kill anyone, you can make good beer.
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Mar 13, 2013 06:10
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Homebrewers freak out over absolutely everything. 'If a stray beam of light touches my beer for a single millisecond it will literally taste like a skunk!' and all kinds of hypersensitive poo poo. Charlie Papazian had the right idea. "Relax. Don't Worry. Have a home-brew"
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Mar 13, 2013 06:24
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Galler posted:Homebrewers freak out over absolutely everything. 'If a stray beam of light touches my beer for a single millisecond it will literally taste like a skunk!' and all kinds of hypersensitive poo poo. My friend teaching me probably sprayed the fermentation container 3 times total (he had me do it when we first got back from the homebrew store, then at some point during the cooking he went and did it, and right as the cooking stopped he did it again), and he also did most of the solution into the airlock. The stuff is in his basement right now and the 2 clear containers are under thick blankets. According to him, he is considered pretty insane about sanitation. It's funny because the reason I put off getting into this was due to sanitation concerns.
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Mar 13, 2013 06:33
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Galler posted:Charlie Papazian had the right idea. "Relax. Don't Worry. Have a home-brew" At the shop/club demo brew I did on Saturday, I invoked St. Charlie several times.
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Mar 13, 2013 07:06
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I've got to get a March pump and build a tower. I did an all-grain tonight and it kicked my rear end. Lifting several gallons of hot wort over and over just isn't that much fun by yourself. My gravity came out too low after the boil, and I was about a half gallon over on volume, so I guess I'll have more of a lower alcohol beer. Yay? Edit: I guess I could have kept on boiling to get to my target, but I'm tired and I'm sure this will do fine. RagingBoner fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 10:47
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I don't know if Guinness has live yeast but I kinda doubt it. I doubt they can "go bad" and if try are canned or solid bottles its not like they will get light struck. Keep in mind once bottled temperatures are way less important then light exposure. I guess a rusty cap could be an issue, but if it makes the CO2 noise when you openly it's probably ok.
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Mar 13, 2013 11:31
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I feel like people teaching home brewing should over emphasize sanitation, because we can expect the students to only do half as good or be half as careful; And therefore, be in the perfect range of sanitation sanity. Or they become sanitation junkies and need rehab.
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Mar 13, 2013 14:12
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Just struck the sparge water for my first ever completely solo batch. Gotta say I'm pretty nervous, but I think some friends will be over for the second batch I'm doing right after. I've never brewed two batches in a day, we'll see how this goes.
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Mar 13, 2013 15:09
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My favorite fearmongering is when people claim that Brett is not only impossible to kill once it's touched your equipment, but it will infect literally every other beer in your house forever. These same people don't worry about cross contamination with the million other yeast strains they deal with though 
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Mar 13, 2013 15:10
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fullroundaction posted:These same people don't worry about cross contamination with the million other yeast strains they deal with though Well that's because no one is going to notice or care if you have a little American Ale, or Irish Ale hanging in there. I've never brewed with Brett, but just to be safe I'd have separate tubing, fermenters and even a hydrometer for it. That equipment is cheap enough for me to not separate them. As for my solo brewing day, hit my mash temp perfectly with this being the second time I've ever brewed on my new set up. gently caress yes! On the sanitation subject, I'm probably on the crazy end. I worry too much. Midorka fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 15:26
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Marshmallow Blue posted:I feel like people teaching home brewing should over emphasize sanitation I dunno, the people I have influenced in brewing seem to do OK and I don't feel I beat the drum on sanitation all that hard. Anything that touches the beer after the boil gets Star-San'ed and that's about as complex as I get.
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Mar 13, 2013 15:28
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Midorka posted:Just struck the sparge water for my first ever completely solo batch. Gotta say I'm pretty nervous, but I think some friends will be over for the second batch I'm doing right after. I've never brewed two batches in a day, we'll see how this goes. I remember the day I made two meads in a day. Probably wont be happening again unless I strike oil and have the funds and time to open a micro-meadery  @Jo3sh, I was taught pretty strictly in the sanitation department, and here I am with my magic star san spritzer spray bottle. I just spray stuff and shake it around until its covered. If it ain't sanitized by then, then the brew just gonna have to deal with it. I also have a napkin of sanitation which is where I place my tools on. But I never sanitize the napkin.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:10
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Tripel yeast status: Happy! Everyone was right; the yeast is going gangbusters and has already made a nice krausen. The blowoff tube is bubbling constantly and everything is maintaining a constant 70F in our spare bathroom. I figure I'll let it ferment until the cake drops and then make some routine measurements of OG to see if it stabilizes. Any suggestions on what to do next? I could bottle it, but my understanding is that this is the kind of beer that works best with aging and I was thinking of racking it to secondary so it could bulk condition for a month or two. Thoughts? I have a beach trip coming up in August; around 20 of us are crashing in a beach house for a week and most of them are beer drinkers. Any suggestions on what to make? I'm already doing a cerveza and the tripel. I was thinking a good IPA for my wife's uncle who likes things a bit hoppier, but the more suggestions the merrier.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:23
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I've only done 2 tripels, 1 bulk and 1 bottle conditioned, and they both hit their sweet spot at around 6 months. I don't know if HOW you age it matters, but you're definitely going to want to let it sit. As far as what to brew for the beach house you can never go wrong with a simple wheat or low abv Saison if you're not dealing with crafty people.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:30
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Jo3sh posted:I dunno, the people I have influenced in brewing seem to do OK and I don't feel I beat the drum on sanitation all that hard. Anything that touches the beer after the boil gets Star-San'ed and that's about as complex as I get. The guys I learned from make it a point when discussing the sanitation topic to bring up that while it's not recommended, at least two of them have inadvertently dropped something unsanitized in their wort post-cooling and just pulled it out by hand without any negative outcome. I was still really paranoid the first few times, but over time have come to understand where it matters and where it's just extra work and worry. As far as I'm concerned temperature issues are the real challenge. My only two "bad" beers were both heat-related issues. My first brew ever fermented rather warm for the first night due to idiotic placement in my apartment and definitely had some off flavors due to that. A later one had a lot of sugar and burnt on the electric heatstick I was using to allow indoor brewing.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:36
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Funniest experience I've had with sanitation was at my homebrew class. The guy teaching it was talking left and right about sanitation, and then he uses water straight from the the tap to get his 2.5 gallons of cooled wort up to 5 gallons.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:01
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Funniest experience I've had with sanitation was at my homebrew class. The guy teaching it was talking left and right about sanitation, and then he uses water straight from the the tap to get his 2.5 gallons of cooled wort up to 5 gallons. That's not risky at all, tap water is exceptionally clean
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Mar 13, 2013 17:12
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RiggenBlaque posted:That's not risky at all, tap water is exceptionally clean Take a swab and grow a petri dish sample of the faucet head all your clean water's coming from.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:27
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So Centennial smells a lot like Fruit Loops when being boiled. Edit: Also, I hate that putting 5 gallons into a bucket/carboy means that I'm only going to end up with 4.5 gallons. THANKS YEAST. Midorka fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 18:15
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Midorka posted:So Centennial smells a lot like Fruit Loops when being boiled. Makes me even more  when I add 2-3oz of dry hops onto that 4.5 and come out with even less! THANKS HOPS.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:20
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