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Crosscontaminant posted:I notice that the card's name is "Ring of Ma ruf" (I don't see an apostrophe or a circumflex) but the card text says to destroy "Ring of Ma'rûf". ... I kinda want to see a card which includes "Light this card on fire" as part of the activation cost of its ability now.
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Mar 19, 2013 11:30
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Zereth posted:Clearly it is telling you about a different card. And it says "remove from the game entirely", not "destroy". 
Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 11:33
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I really don't know if un-set cards count for this thread because they're joke cards. What does count is Fiend Hunter and cards like it. What it does is when it's played, it exiles a creature. However, if Fiend Hunter gets removed from play somehow, by like a kill spell or getting mauled in combat, then the creature comes back. White has a few cards like that, removal that's powerful but itself vulnerable to removal. But what gets strange is if Fiend Hunter leaves play while its ability is on the stack. Without Fiend Hunter on the battlefield its ability still resolves, but since the Fiend Hunter is no longer there, the second ability will never trigger. The exiled creature is exiled forever. Fiend Hunter was printed in Innistrad. Two sets later Avacyn Restored has a subtheme of blink effects, which exile then return a creature all during resolution. The important part to this is that when a creature leaves play but returns, the game considers it a new object. So when you play a Fiend Hunter, follow it immediately with a Restoration Angel and blink the Fiend Hunter. Two creatures get exiled and one of them won't come back due to the Fiend Hunter that exiled it no longer existing. Also, it took Exile a decade to finally exile creatures.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:29
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The How To Lose a Friend combination, presented without commentary.     Edit: made it crueler. Piell fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 14:32
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Wouldn't Mirrorweave wear off before before Mindslaver kicks in? (not a Magic player)
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Mar 19, 2013 14:37
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Mirrorweave is an instant, you can cast it on their turn (even though you also control their turn).
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Mar 19, 2013 14:39
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YggiDee posted:Wouldn't Mirrorweave wear off before before Mindslaver kicks in? (not a Magic player) It's an instant so you can cast it on their turn, even though you're controlling it.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:39
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Piell posted:The How To Lose a Friend combination, presented without commentary. Could you provide commentary? I think it isn't completely self explanatory if you're not familiar with magic.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:43
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Basically you turn your opponent's creatures into Chaos Orbs, and then rip them up by controlling his actions on his turn with Mindslave.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:46
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Mycosynth Lattice turns all permanants (i.e. everything they've played that isn't in their graveyard) into artifacts. March of the machines turns all those artifacts into creatures. Then you sacrifice Mindslaver, which lets you play your opponents next turn. When it's their turn, play Mirrorweave - now all your enemies permanants (and yours as well) are Chaos Confetti. Now tear up all their cards.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:47
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Wouldn't really work because you need to tap 4 mana per card.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:51
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By the time you are able to get this combo running the opponent is probably going to have enough mana down for at least two cards. So yeah, it's not really the nuclear bomb of MTG, but it's still pretty much an rear end in a top hat combination. e: Wait, are lands turned into Chaos Confeti too? Then in that case it wouldn't work. Maybe the first combination that was posted is the one that actually works. Rexides fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 14:54
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Rexides posted:e: Wait, are lands turned into Chaos Confeti too? Actually no, they would've died when March of the Machines was played, since they have no mana cost they become 0/0s and go to the graveyard as a state-based action, unless something is giving them toughness, like Master of Etherium.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:59
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Frankly, Mindslaver by itself seems like a sufficiently rear end in a top hat card to play.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:59
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Alright fine, replace Myscosynth Lattice and March of the Machines with Animate Artifact and you can do it with just his favorite creature.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:02
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Actually no, they would've died when March of the Machines was played, since they have no mana cost they become 0/0s and go to the graveyard as a state-based action, unless something is giving them toughness, like Master of Etherium. You can just tap them for mana before casting mirrorweave.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:15
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Here's the worst version of that combo. All happens on your turn and hits everything besides instant/sorceries they might have:
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Mar 19, 2013 15:33
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ChewyLSB posted:You can just tap them for mana before casting mirrorweave. Mirrorweave wouldn't be what kills them. Mycosynth lattice turns them into artifacts with no casting cost. March of the machines turns them into creatures with a power and toughness equal to their casting cost. Which is zero. The next time state based effects are checked they die because they're */0 creatures. If you could figure out a way to get the Lattice or March into play at instant speed on your turn, then you might be able to pull it off. Fake Edit: CaptCommy posted:Here's the worst version of that combo. All happens on your turn and hits everything besides instant/sorceries they might have:
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Mar 19, 2013 15:38
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That seems more like normal hard to pull off combos than the game breaking obscure rule type stuff, or the "pulling off this combo technically means your opponent has to do some real life thing you tell him to"
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Mar 19, 2013 15:47
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greatn posted:That seems more like normal hard to pull off combos than the game breaking obscure rule type stuff, or the "pulling off this combo technically means your opponent has to do some real life thing you tell him to" Well, not quite. It's different because the rules let you tear up every single one of your opponent's cards.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:57
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:Well, not quite. It's different because the rules let you tear up every single one of your opponent's cards. Oh. Maybe it's because I don't get magic at all but that's not coming across.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:36
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I remember that a friend of mine dreaded that you could only have four of those in a deck, because otherwise he could straight up summon Yu-Gi-Oh's Exodia for the hilariousest victory ever. Plutonis fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 16:54
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greatn posted:Oh. Maybe it's because I don't get magic at all but that's not coming across. Sorry, I was in a rush this morning and couldn't spell it out better. But yeah, playing all of those cards allows you to take nearly every card in your opponents deck and tear it into pieces.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:56
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greatn posted:Oh. Maybe it's because I don't get magic at all but that's not coming across.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:10
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Just knowing that's the end result is enough for me. Because Jesus, that's insane. I think cards or game rules with real world effect are my absolute favorite. It's like real magical powers in the card that can only be used for assholery.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:13
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Plutonis posted:I remember that a friend of mine dreaded that you could only have four of those in a deck, because otherwise he could straight up summon Yu-Gi-Oh's Exodia for the hilariousest victory ever. Prototype Portal, imprinting that Ring onto it. Now you can make tokens of the ring, meaning you can bring out as many cards from the outside as you have mana! (And the ability to untap Prototype Portal).
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Mar 19, 2013 17:25
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greatn posted:Just knowing that's the end result is enough for me. Because Jesus, that's insane. I think cards or game rules with real world effect are my absolute favorite. It's like real magical powers in the card that can only be used for assholery. The only thing is is that its using silver bordered cards, which are joke cards that wizards printed not meant for 'real' play. Anyways, one of my favorite magic rules fuckery's is my favorite because its a situation that can happen in a real magic tournament because it involves two cards that are both actually played. First up, we have brainstorm, which is actually quite a versatile and powerful card and is played a lot.  Pretty simple effect, draw three cards and then put two from your hand back on top of your library. Then, you have another card which is played in legacy a bit, Sylvan Library.  For one thing, Sylvan Library has had a few changes in wording over the years. The version above reflects the most recent oracle text for the card, and its pretty simple when you read the card. Draw two extra cards during your draw step, and then of all the cards you've drawn this turn (normally, this would be three, as you have your normal draw step + the two extra from sylvan), you have to put two cards back on top of your library or pay four life for each of them to keep them in your hand. Another strong card that sees a decent amount of Legacy play. However, these two cards interact in a weird way that isn't immediately apparent. If you have Sylvan Library on the battlefield, and then during your upkeep, Brainstorm, you have to call a judge over to resolve this part of the turn. This is because, normally, with brainstorm, you can put any two cards back from your hand on top of your library, it doesn't necessarily have to be the three cards you drew this turn. Because of this, it can be important for your opponent to not know whether you put a card back on top that you just drew or whether or not you already had it in your hand. But then, later, when the Sylvan Library trigger happens, you draw two extra cards. Then, Sylvan Library lets you put any card that you drew this turn back on top of your library. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal because usually the cards you drew this turn are just the three that Sylvan Library drew you this turn. However, the cards you drew from Brainstorm also count as cards you drew this turn. So now suddenly it can't be clear whether or not a card you're putting back via Sylvan is a card you drew off brainstorm or not! Because of this, you have to call a judge over to watch your hand to make sure that you're not cheating, which is ridiculous. And, if you really want to get ridiculous, you can add a third card, Chains of Mephistopheles.  This is one of the rare cards that almost functionally doesn't have a text box because the oracle text is so different from what's printed in the text box, but you do get the general gist of the card. Chains of Mephistopheles Oracle Text posted:If a player would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn, that player discards a card instead. If the player discards a card this way, he or she draws a card. If the player doesn't discard a card this way, he or she puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard. So, effectively, while this enchantment is in play, if a player would draw a card during his or her turn, they instead have to discard a card first, and then draw a card. If they have no cards in their hand (thus not having to discard), they put a card from the top of their library into their graveyard instead and don't draw a card. This card also doesn't apply to the first card drawn each turn, but only if that card was drawn during their draw step. Got all that? Honestly this card by itself could be a post in this goddamn thread, because whenever this card is played, it for sure draws a judge call for the oracle text. It even sees a little bit of play, since it effectively 'counters' brainstorm, since brainstorm becomes Discard a Card, Draw a Card, Discard a Card, Draw a Card, Discard a Card, Draw a Card, put two back on top of your library. Apparently though, at an SCG Open a week ago, there was an issue where literally no one on staff knew exactly how Sylvan Library functions with Chains of Mephistopheles. I'll leave that bit out for now, though. 
ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 17:37
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All of these old magic cards are making me nostalgic. I remember the good old days (1993?) of throwing like seven or eight starter decks together and playing with all of them before we understood stuff like "strategy."
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Mar 19, 2013 18:12
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greatn posted:Oh. Maybe it's because I don't get magic at all but that's not coming across. Quick explanation! So the first card gives you enough mana to play whatever cards you want, enabling the rest of the combo to go no matter what. Then what the cards do is a few things (gonna ignore the exact order): First, you get control over your opponent. Then, you make him put all of his permanents into play.Then you turn every permanent into an artifact, in order to use your next card. They then turn every artifact (i.e. everything) into an artifact creature. Because they are creatures, you can then make every one of those creatures a copy of the confetti card. At this point, they all have the ability on the confetti card, and you can choose to rip up every card in your opponent's deck. Haven't played magic in awhile, but that's what I got out of it.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:18
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More of these hilarious Magic interactions, please, and fewer silver-bordered shenanigans. There are lots of ways to break Magic without resorting to the cards designed to break the game.Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Also, it took Exile a decade to finally exile creatures. For the non-Magic player, Magic has always had "removed from the game." In a casual sort of game, the distinction doesn't matter as much, but for tournaments (where you can cast cards that get other cards from outside the game, among other things), it matters where these cards go - you don't want your opponent going through her entire binder when she casts a Wish. So Wizards R&D invented a "removed from game" zone and a "sideboard" (the fifteen cards that start in your "outside the game" zone). Yep, now the cards which are "removed from" or "outside" the game (or, even more confusingly, "set aside") are in a zone that is part of the game. It didn't make a whole lot of sense. With the 2010 rules changes, they ditched "removed from the game" and decided to call it "exile," after the aforementioned card. Now there is an Exile zone in addition to the regular zones, like hand and graveyard. (Also with these rules, they blessedly replaced "in play" with "on the battlefield" to end the confusion that a card you just played is not in play until it enters the in play zone.)
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Mar 19, 2013 18:19
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The other weird thing about the "removed from game" zone was that, while it originally was pretty accurately named, it got less and less so as time went on and they started printing cards with functionality similar to for example Fiend Hunter (noted above) so that sometimes the cards were "removed from the game" and then came back later, which just seems strange. It got to the point where WOTC itself realized the absurdity and started riffing on it itself, for example with the silver-bordered card AWOL:AWOL posted:Remove target attacking creature from the game. Then remove it from the removed-from-game zone and put it into the absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:36
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CaptCommy posted:Here's the worst version of that combo. All happens on your turn and hits everything besides instant/sorceries they might have: How do you get the Mox Lotus under the opponent's control?
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Mar 19, 2013 18:47
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Gau posted:More of these hilarious Magic interactions, please, and fewer silver-bordered shenanigans. There are lots of ways to break Magic without resorting to the cards designed to break the game. One of my all time favourites was permanently gaining control of all my opponent's creatures... with This. In black-bordered magic. Have This in play against an opponent who can't pay its upkeep trigger. Don't pay the trigger yourself. On your opponent's upkeep, cast This on the card in the above paragraph, with the previous card in this paragraph's trigger on the stack. You get every creature permanently for the rest of the battle. Edit: Thranguy posted:How do you get the Mox Lotus under the opponent's control? You don't. When all his stuff is creatures, you insurrection it via the Vedalken Orrery.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:48
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Another nice bit of Magic absurdity, this one potentially doable in a tournament game. Take this guy: -He's a medium-sized creature with the Golem type -When he comes into play, he brings two friends with him, also medium-sized Golem-type creatures -Whenever any Golem-type creature gets targeted by a spell, a bunch of copies get made so that the spell targets every golem-type creature He saw a bit of play - three medium-sized creatures for five mana is a good deal, but his third ability is mostly a down-side. If they have a spell that kills a target creature, it clears them all out. But, what if instead we target one of them with this card:  Assuming you have enough mana, this card lets you target a creature and make five copies of the creature. So, if we target a golem with this card, we get: -Five copies of Precursor Golem (6 total) -Ten of his Golem-token friends (from targeting the original golems he came with) (12 total) -Ten additional golem-token friends (from the 5 copies of Precursor coming into play) (22 total) Pretty cool, but we're just getting started. Let's take that board and cast Rite of Replication with kicker targeting a Golem again. Precursor Golem's ability is what's called a triggered ability. That means that when the condition is met it triggers and does whatever it does. There's no restriction that each event only causes one trigger, even if they're identical triggers off of copies of the same card. So now, each of our six Precursor Golems copies the spell targeting every other Golem. So we end up with one Golem targeted by one Rite of Replication, and every other Golem in play targeted by six copies. Let's assume the initial target was one of the friends rather than an actual Precursor Golem: -You copy one friend five times (total 27 friends) -You copy 21 friends 30 times each (+630 friends, total 657) -You copy each of the six Precursor Golems 30 times (+180 Precursors, total 186) -Each of the 180 new Precursor Golems brings 2 friends (+360 friends, total 1017) Since each of the creatures we've made has 3 power, we now have a little over 3500 power on the table. Given players start with 20 life, that's probably more than you'll ever need. We could of course cast a third Rite of Replication but that's just silly. Instead, let's take advantage of the fact that every creature Rite of Replication makes is a token creature to seriously boost our production:   Both of these cards double the number of creature tokens we make whenever we make creature tokens. These effects are exponential in Magic, not additive, so if we have two of these in play we get four times the creature tokens, and if we have three we get eight and so forth. Let's say we have three. Then when we play the original Precursor Golem we get 16 friends, and when we play the first Rite of Replication we get +40 Precursor Golems and +80 friends. Needless to say, the second Rite now creates some stupid numbers of Golems. But if we really want to boost our numbers through the roof, it'd help a lot if we could get more copies of Doubling Season and/or Parallel Lives, in addition to getting more Golems...   There we go! With Opalescence, we can turn our Doubling Seasons and/or Parallel Lives into creatures, and with Xenograft (which is also a creature) we can give all our creatures the Golem type. Now when we cast that first Rite of Replication, we end up with: -41 Precursor Golems -96 Golem friends -123 "Double your Tokens" cards -41 Xenografts (Xenograft is mostly just along for the ride here, but you have to copy it, and the creature types stack, so you might as well have Mutant Ninja Turtle Golems or whatever you think is funny) Now when we do it again, we really need to go with scientific notation. If we target a Golem friend, we get (5*(2123)) copies of that golem, and (5*41*(2123)) copies of everything else. Assuming I'm reading my Windows calculator right, that's about 5*1037 copies of the original friend, plus 2*1039 copies of each of the 260 other creatures in play, which is roughly 5.5*1041 total creatures. According to a quick google search, the number of atoms in the observable universe is in the 1087-1088 range. If we have a third Rite of Replication, we blow that number out of the water. For those who are into practical applications, this means the game state is impossible to represent with actual individual tokens. (Of course, it was before the third Rite as well.) If you get an opponent who's willing to play along, you can also do this to crash Magic Online, though that isn't all that hard.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:32
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I ran out of word count and math ability, but the numbers in the above post are mostly estimates and a little low for the late ones. Once your Rites are copying Doubling Seasons it gets very hard to figure out because the order in which Rites resolve matters a lot; copies of Doubling Season get created and then double all the Rites that resolve after and it becomes a real clusterfuck. Basically those numbers are a bit low for the last scenario, though you still probably need three Rites to exceed the number of atoms in the observable universe.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:41
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Another less excessive but fun thing about Precursor Golem is that it copies entire spells. Notably Precursor Golem in the same set as Twisted Image. Your 3/3s become... 3/3s. But since it copies the whole spell, you copy the "draw a card." Suddenly, this minor combat trick with a cantrip is Ancestral Recall.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:09
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I'm actually a huge fan of Magic's Rules and I personally love obscure Magic bullshit, so have another big effort post about magic rules. Now there's an innocuous card in New Phyrexia which is popular amongst casual circles called Caged Sun.  Looks pretty simple, yeah? You get to choose a color and then any lands that you control that tap for that color produce an extra mana of that color and creatures you control that are that color are +1/+1! The extra mana ability is the interesting one, now this effect certainly isn't unique, as you'll see now.     See? They do this effect all the time. But here's the weird thing - Caged Sun's ability isn't worded exactly like how the other abilities are worded. You'll notice that the other four have wording similar to "Whenever ... land is tapped for mana, ... add ... mana", whereas Caged Sun has the wording "Whenever a land's ability adds one or more mana to your mana pool, ... add ... mana". This may seem like an insignificant distinction, but this line of text is... weird, to say the least. One of the implications it has is whether or not Caged Sun's ability is a mana ability at all! You see, Magic has very strict rules as to what is or is not a "Mana Ability", as opposed to simply an activated/triggered ability that happens to add mana to your pool. Why is this different? Well, at the most basic level, activated/triggered abilities that add mana to your mana pool can be responded to, which means that your opponent can get a chance to play a card in response. Mana Abilities can also be used to pay for abilities at special times that activated abilities could not be used, and the reason that that happens is because usually activated abilities that add mana are not classified as mana abilities because the mana that you could get from them is not 'guaranteed', so you can't be sure whether or not you could actually use that mana to pay for something. Now, nothing about Caged Sun's ability makes the mana not 'guaranteed', so there's no reason that it couldn't be a mana ability. In fact, as far as I know, there are no triggered abilities in magic (a triggered ability means that its an ability that happens when something else happens - in this case, this ability happens whenever a land's ability adds mana to your pool) that add mana to your mana pool that are not mana abilities. However, if you read the comprehensive rules... Comprensive Rules posted:605.1b. A triggered ability without a target that triggers from activating a mana ability and could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves is a mana ability. So yes, it certainly doesn't have a target, and yes, it can certainly add mana into a player's mana pool. However... it does not trigger from activating a mana ability! As you can see, it triggers from mana being added to your mana pool! Compare this to the wording on the other four cards linked, and you'll see that their worded to trigger off of activating a mana ability (Whenever a land is tapped for mana). So it seems that if you read the rules, that the Caged Sun ability should actually not be a mana ability! Well that was a lot of words for something that's pretty mundane. Now for something fun about Caged Sun. Because of its unusual wording, it also means that Caged Sun would cause an infinite loop if it ever became a land and then added mana to your mana pool. Why is that? Because let's say it was a land and added mana to your mana pool. Its own ability would trigger (Since a land has added mana to your mana pool), and add mana to your mana pool. But now, it again has just added to your mana pool with its own ability! So it triggers again! And again... and again... and would cause the game to draw! And because its a 'mana ability', neither player even gets a chance to respond! Now, making Caged Sun into a land is not the easiest task in the world. But it can be done! All you need are these three cards!  To make it into a 5/5 Creature.  Equip this to it to make it into a Saproling (along with every other creature type)  And finally this to give it the Land Type and the Forest subtype which gives it the T: Add {G} to your mana pool ability. Then simply tap it for mana and draw the game!
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Mar 19, 2013 20:35
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Replacement effects are hilarious sometimes. They have the format "if... instead..." meaning one action doesn't happen, but instead a different one happens. The important part is that the game considers the first action to never happen, which is relevant to triggers. Wheel of Sun and Moon replaces "card goes to the graveyard" with "card goes on the bottom of the deck". This harasses decks that use the graveyard as a resource and can be used to prevent yourself from running out of cards. But replacing going to the graveyard entirely has a few implications: "dies" triggers require going into the graveyard, but since going to the graveyard never happens, they never trigger. Energy Field never triggers its second ability, which is supposed to balance its ability and cost. Now it's sort of unfair. Helm of Obedience is an old card, so its wording is strange. The thing that ends its ability is X cards or a creature entering the graveyard. With that replaced by a card being put on the bottom of the library, it will now put cards on the bottom, eventually to be forced off and placed back on bottom yet again. It creates an infinite loop, forcing a draw. An "infinite loop" in Magic is a series of events that never allows the game to progess and neither player can break. It can happen like Caged Sun, where there's no opportunity to try anything because mana abilities don't use the stack, giving neither player priority to try destroying it. There's ones like the Helm/Wheel thing up there, which happens during an ability resolving, a time when neither player can do anything. Then there's ones where the players could do something but can't, like three things with abilities like Fiend Hunter's that can target only each other and nothing else, and neither player has the ability to stop them. They just keep going and going and going and the game can't end.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:55
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ChewyLSB posted:
I haven't played Magic for years, so I have no idea how these cards function, and I don't know what I'd need to search. So can any of you explain what's going on here, exactly? Like, the +1, -1, etc things.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:49
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Manuel Calavera posted:I haven't played Magic for years, so I have no idea how these cards function, and I don't know what I'd need to search. So can any of you explain what's going on here, exactly? Like, the +1, -1, etc things. Planeswalkers come into play with a number of loyalty counters indicated in the lower right, the + abilites add loyalty counters and the - abilities remove them, when a planeswalker has 0 loyalty counters on it, it dies.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:52
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