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Readingaccount posted:1) Or we could focus on extrasolar colonization and strengthening our military to parity, while waiting for things to cool down to improve trading relations for materials and technology. It's like you actually can't see the third 'cold war' option that's literally in the title of this thread.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:12
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The problem is completely locking them out of stellar expansion is probably just a fast ticket to MAD on earth. Extrasolar expansion is a safe way to get some colonies they can't touch, assuming we do it in a manner that allows us to claim whole systems rather than just planets.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:21
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I always thought it referred to war in space. A proper political cold war would be to use the ship, staffed with our own people, to spy on the Federation like they did in the cold war, not engaging their merchants like the US handing out tactical subs to Solidarity or Baltic nationalists or Russia doing the same for Cuba. Let's even ask Raw Beef to attack our own ships and any resource shipments we might be buying at the time from the Feds - our being hurt and the Federation hull signature will throw them off for sure. We can even send in someone to mess with their books so they can't just verify that all their ships ever built except Mitrata are accounted for. I suppose we'll be seeing more of this stuff in the future though, with Magicboots leaving for RL reasons rather than anyone who voted for allying with the BFM going. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 20:22
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Volmarias posted:If we absolutely must give beef and the rest of the BFM weapons, we sure as hell need to make sure that there's VERY plausible deniability, not "why those state of the art missiles could have come from anywhere!" We should also tell Soman privately that we are going to provide this support in order to lessen the incentive for them to launch a surprise attack as we withdraw, which it seems they are preparing to do as we speak. As for the entire "The BFM are just controlled by the Fed" argument, it's not plausible. The BFM were never strong enough to threaten our holdings on Mars. If their strategy was to draw us into a conflict with the Federation, it's a horrible one, as it relies upon our least likely course of action - namely an overt declaration of support where simply running them weapons and supplies would have been more than sufficient. Coincidentally we did end up taking this completely ridiculous course of action - but that's a gambit roulette and Soman could not have planned around our unforced errors. If we miss this opportunity to give the Fed another black eye on Mars then we will be crippling ourselves because of paranoia, and a misplaced notion that detente is either possible or desirable.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:33
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The above is a good plan for cold war, still dangerous in the face of knowing that the Fed navy is stronger and their being aware of the strength difference, but a great option under regular cirucumstances and still a sane and good plan even when we know we are weaker (I'm not saying I agree with it, just that it's sane and a good plan). It's also be far more effective than a single ship playing at anonymity between two powers. Supplying insurgents and spying with stealth ships crewed by UN personnel are the type of actions we should take if we want to hurt the Feds and stay abreast and ahead of their capabilities without ending up in a war, not handing over first rate ships with loopy plans to attack civilian merchants. Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 20:44
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Aethernet posted:
What is to keep any of the civilians involved from blabbing that they are still alive to their loved ones?
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Apr 6, 2013 20:49
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Fell Fire posted:What is to keep any of the civilians involved from blabbing that they are still alive to their loved ones? Only use people whose families have moved to Callisto. The navy has never been short on people with few or no family connections. quote:Providing the BFM with arms and weaponry is exactly what we should be doing, Fun thing, I actually suggested this, several times, at the beginning of the Mars crisis. Part of the reason I went the way I did is that no-one listened to that suggestion. Added Space fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 20:51
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GenVec posted:Providing the BFM with arms and weaponry is exactly what we should be doing, and we have excellent deniability - we're abandoning our colony, we just lost a war, things are chaotic. This, yes, absolutely. Spending a hundred million on a top-of-the-line ship captained by someone we can't really trust who can then cause trouble that is no longer limited to a planet that isn't our problem? Not so much. At best, I'd give him a stealthy, fast, but unarmed vessel (a faster version of what the Misrata was in the first place) and let him use that to smuggle more arms after we've left. But handing a viable interplanetary commerce raider to someone we don't really control is asking for blowback, from either the Feds or a BFM angry that we didn't win their war for them.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:52
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We should arm Raw_Beef and then let him do whatever we think he's going to do. That's the Cold War, and if the Stingers we give him come back to bite us, that's the Cold War, too. But trying to have elaborate, scripted tomfoolery is going too far. Just like we know that Fred started the BFM, they can know that we started Beef, but they can't do anything about it, just like we couldn't. But if we start to turn this into a failed script for X-Files or The A-Team, then it's just going to get stupid quick and BG will happily play the Federation as real-world actors facing a bunch of overeager cartoon characters.
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Apr 6, 2013 20:57
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TildeATH posted:We should arm Raw_Beef and then let him do whatever we think he's going to do. That's the Cold War, and if the Stingers we give him come back to bite us, that's the Cold War, too. But trying to have elaborate, scripted tomfoolery is going too far. Just like we know that Fred started the BFM, they can know that we started Beef, but they can't do anything about it, just like we couldn't. But if we start to turn this into a failed script for X-Files or The A-Team, then it's just going to get stupid quick and BG will happily play the Federation as real-world actors facing a bunch of overeager cartoon characters. Because this is all SERIOUS BUSINESS right? I'd actually be in favor of a more narrative, fictive feel to this kind of decision; more in favor of the coolness of space pirates vs the actual logistical concerns.
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Apr 6, 2013 21:05
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For the record, I am on board with the pirate ship idea. It does give us plausible deniability and lets us harass Federation shipping, and we can have our Samars patrol our Earth-Callisto route and protect our shipping (it will give them something to do). Plus realistically, for those suggesting that this is too much of a stretch and we should give BFM weapons instead, that option is about the same in terms of plausible deniability. We're the only other void power and the only one capable of supplying arms, sure Fred can't prove it, but they'll know its us giving arms to the rebels. Same with a pirate ship, they can't prove it, but they can know it. But anyways, I think it might be prudent to wait on making the pirate ship until we've gotten our tech base back up to snuff a bit and have started on the Cape Towns. Plus rule of cool people, space pirates are on the top!
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Apr 6, 2013 21:09
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Innocent_Bystander posted:Also, with regards to the 'plausible deniability doesn't mean Fred high command doesn't know the game', I concede that this is a valid point. However, I do point you HOURGLASS, KRONOS and the entire 'Fred made the BFM in the first place' situation. Knowing is one thing, being able to act upon that knowledge is another. We have a unique oppertunity here because we have a Federation-built hull to refit into raider. The Federation does not have a UN or neutral hull to do the same to. I also point out that having the raider ready to deploy and actually doing so are two different things. Well, there are three problems with that. One, there are plenty of civilian hulls 'anarchist terrorists', or whatever they'd end up being called, could use to enact the Feds' agenda. Two, Raw_Beef would be in command of this raider, and he's not a part of the UN anymore so he doesn't exactly have to take our orders. He's free to do whatever he pleases and I am not impressed enough by his current track record to trust him not to do something silly like, I don't know, ram his ship into the Mars colony. Thirdly, his crew is ex-Federation. Any of those could still have Federation allegiances, increasing the odds this whole exercise might blow up in our face. Having an unique opportunity does not mean one should automatically jump at it. You need to know what you're going to use it for and what the consequences of that use might be. If the use is 'damage and annoy the Federation as much as possible' then this needs to be on the table so we can better figure out how to do that with the least amount of blowback to ourselves. That aside, and to poke at Aether's dismissal of it, some of us are simply willing to hold the moral high ground because that's a part of the 'old UN' image and ideals. We can't, of course, prevent the UNEC from giving that up for tactical, strategic or 'rule of cool' (I swear I wrote this before Jimmy did, I'm not mocking you or anything dude) advantages if they want or need to, but that's part of the game. Our outrage will eventually foist a perfectly capable director from his seat, I'm sure. Because goons are horrible, horrible people, even when we're trying to do good things.  I would also like to point out that Hourglass, KRONOS and the entire 'Fred made the BFM in the first place', all of these details came from this single, improbably well-prepared agent we captured, whose advice largely lead us into this whole debacle in the first place. I would sooner eat my hat than trust 100% anything that came out of those documents, for there are far too many unanswered questions surrounding them and the death of our espionage team in Mumbai. Not to mention, whatever the gently caress happened to Tilde? What really went on with Soman on Mars? Were we really set up, or was this just a series of Murphy's Law events that somehow ended in a Federation victory when they screwed up second to last? So many questions for a mind to grow paranoid on. Turning this conversation to more immediate matters, I am seriously wondering what the BFM are up to. Could they be moving to take the Belnar ruins hostage? It's about the only thing the Federation might want on Mars bad enough that they'd negotiate with the BFM over them.
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Apr 6, 2013 21:14
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Normally I would be going with this kind of response, realistically creating a pirate ship might cause us a crap ton of problems, even with some of the good benefits. I always try to argue for UN morals and rules and being the good guys. Consider this my one crazy thing that goes against common sense, but I support. 
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Apr 6, 2013 21:22
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The important thing about playing out a Cold war is that you do actually have to act like a cartoon villain sometimes. See: everything the CIA did between the 60's-80's. The Federation BFM plot is cartoon villainy to the max and it worked.
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Apr 6, 2013 21:27
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The Chinese (and/or maybe the Russians) were probably just trying to weaken the colony so it seemed like they needed more non-Indians there. Instead of supplying the rebels and generally engaging in skullduggery to get back at the Federation for past wrongs the UN instead decided to full on break a treaty because it likes seperatists, thinking the Federation and BFM would accept our giving them the land the BFM gave us, so they could live next to each other in peace. Jimmy: I'm against both, since we're weaker atm., but if we weren't I'd think supplying the BFM with arms would actually be a good idea. As it is I still think it's sane because if I were the Federation I'd feel much less threatened by the UN letting a supply convoy be overrun (my personal reaction would be to send the UN a warning before throwing them out after any second incident) as opposed to cranking out top-line pirate ships threatening my naval supply lines (my personal reaction would be to ask the UN to cut the crap immediately or shut down their naval supply in retaliation). Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Apr 6, 2013 |
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Apr 6, 2013 21:40
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I think we should do operation space pirate. Not for any logical reasons, I just think it would be cool. Plus, it's not like it would be the most irresponsible thing we've ever done.
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Apr 6, 2013 21:49
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I'd be on board with this if Raw_Beef was willing to let my intel team use his ship as a mobile base. Let's face it, a ship with a unique thermal signature, ability to outrun any of Fred's ships, and the sensor abilities it would have would make the perfect base of operations for an intel team.
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Apr 6, 2013 22:00
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Both arming the BFM and the piracy thing are the sort of thing we need to be doing, even if we don't want to be doing those specific things. Deniable, asymmetric operations that cost us little but force the Feds to expend resources, time and attention on things other than keeping up their naval lead. Meanwhile, we work on catching up. We need to get them reacting to our shenanigans for a while, instead of constantly being on the back foot.
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Apr 6, 2013 22:15
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I'm all up for having Raw_Beef running intelligence operations around the system, spying on the Feds movements and ferrying our spy teams. Piracy seems a bit too much, because I don't think the ship would have the capacity to carry with it whatever loot they get from freighters, so attacking wouldn't be seen as being motivated by greed alone. It would need some kind of weaponry, and that could be traced back to us. We could always claim that his ship is still with the BFM, a last minute attempt to harass the Feds in some way.
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Apr 7, 2013 00:11
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It was very painful for me reading this thread on my phone at work and unable to defend myself or my idea. I put a lot of effort into creating what i hope is an entertaining character within our LP Universe. I enjoy the creative writing. I really want the chance to write some tales of Space Privateering. (Piracy is ugly and brutal, I am neither) Secondly, in the eyes of the UN, my character should not be considered an extreme risk. I've never done anything to harm the UN, I was officially cleared from blame for the missile launch (sticky button cover, i maintain) and then sent to rot forever on Mimas. When given the chance at a Void command of any kind i took it, and knowing i was in the right place and right time to stick it to the Fed, I did everything i could to assist the UN in the mars crisis. Had i born the UN any ill will, I'm sure i couldve acted in some way on it, but considering how things ended It wouldntve mattered. Theres been more personal slandering of my character and his motivations/trustworthiness than I wouldve expected. I've never made any public anti-UN statements. I'm ideologically opposed to oppressive governments (i see the Fed as one). I am however not officially on the UN ranks anymore, with a crew who also wants to strike back at the Fed. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, yes? Also keep in mind that while the Raider is designed to avoid Federation Warships, it is coincidentally vulnerable to the UN Samar II. The Raider is not designed or intended to ever fire on warships, planets, or installations. It is a scout craft with a pea-shooter really, but in this case it fits the intended purpose. There seems to be too much fear of Fred. Worries about what Fred might do, how he might see this, whatever. At some point the UN needs to take Initiative and attempt to knock Fred off balance for a while. The Privateer mission will be to disrupt Fed void shipments of material. I Intend to force cargo and fuel dumps, and leave the freighters unharmed, if they comply. The plan would be to do it sporadically, without a pattern, and just enough to force Fred to react and invest resources in countering the Privateer ship. The economic impact should be enough to measure, as we dump billions worth of Infrastructure into space. Required investment from UN: 1 week research time, less than 100M Euro, and 31 hornet missiles. Though the total cost of the Beeftown Raider is 114 BP, some of the Kirvak's original 55 BP will be retained, so its less than the total 114BP for a scratch built Raider. I've been informed this ship will not be requring a shipyard birth. Its to be assembled by my crew and Genius Chief Engineer Alexandrov in a secret hangar on Luna. This will take time due to the difficulties of interfacing Federation and UN systems. Edit: Agent Snark and his Intel teams are always welcome on any ship I command. Submarines are used to slip intel operatives in and out of dangerous places, We would have no problem achieving these kinds of missions. Also possible is a Saturn Scout mission. Burn in from an out of system vector, do a series of "Pings" and burn out before they can catch me. We'll find that Saturn Shipyard yet! Edit edit: He could even function as some kind of political officer, representative of UN authortiy on the Raider. The raider will never be taken alive so any worries about capture are probably misplaced. I know what they do to Privateers. (out the airlock with ye) Raw_Beef fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 00:16
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TildeATH posted:We should arm Raw_Beef and then let him do whatever we think he's going to do. That's the Cold War, and if the Stingers we give him come back to bite us, that's the Cold War, too. But trying to have elaborate, scripted tomfoolery is going too far. Just like we know that Fred started the BFM, they can know that we started Beef, but they can't do anything about it, just like we couldn't. But if we start to turn this into a failed script for X-Files or The A-Team, then it's just going to get stupid quick and BG will happily play the Federation as real-world actors facing a bunch of overeager cartoon characters. Thats a rather fatalistic attitude!
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Apr 7, 2013 00:27
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Raw_Beef posted:It was very painful for me reading this thread on my phone at work and unable to defend myself or my idea. Be aggressive, don't hesitate to go toe to toe with military targets!
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Apr 7, 2013 00:29
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Raw_Beef posted:Edit: Agent Snark and his Intel teams are always welcome on any ship I command. Submarines are used to slip intel operatives in and out of dangerous places, We would have no problem achieving these kinds of missions. Admittedly, that is more or less what I've been talking to Raw_Beef about-I'd basically be in charge of the team on the ship, and you'd all be able to keep in touch with him through me in case you guys were getting antsy or had any special requests for raids or operations. Edit: Whoever got me my new AV, I love you so much. It's amazing  Double Edit: I've talked with Raw_Beef, and he's willing to be (un)offically reinstated as a UN captain as a sign of good faith. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 00:42
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Readingaccount posted:Supplying insurgents and spying with stealth ships crewed by UN personnel are the type of actions we should take if we want to hurt the Feds and stay abreast and ahead of their capabilities without ending up in a war. Scribbleykins posted:Considering we don't know what technologies they have at hand and haven't shown us yet, and what they're currently working on, this could be anytime from 'soon' to 'in years'. It is, however, certain that they're not going to just sit around and take it if he invades their space and/or assaults their ships. ReadingAccount: The Raider is a great tool to test Federation military capabilities. Instead of waiting for the next war to find out what they've got, the Raider will force them to show their hand as they attempt to destroy it. We should be able to rather quickly find maximum sensor ranges and top speeds of Federation ships attempting to engage the Raider. I have faith that the tiny size of the Raider combined with its massive speed and adequate sensors will allow it to perform enough scouting probes of Federation ships and their Saturn installations to be valuable to the UN. Any UN ship breaking the Saturn Barrier would be a diplomatic nightmare. The Raider would be easy to play off and the Intel priceless. Scribbleykins: Again, more close-engagement with Fed ships gives us more chances to see their equipment before it slams a nuclear warhead into a Berlin. This is helpful to the UNIN goals of fleet and doctrine improvement. Much better to base our battle plans on real observed capability than hypothetical designs, agreed? Again, the UN cannot do this with any ship on its roster without causing an incident. You are quite correct that the Fed will not sit back and take economic damage without response, however this is part of the intended outcome. If the Fed is forced to change its research or construction schedule to aquire specific technology or military equipment to defeat a 160RP 114BP raider, we have certainly taken initiatve from them. Even better, we will immediately see this technology/equipment and be able to plan UNIN doctrines aware of it's existance well ahead of the next fleet crisis. While i've been talking about encounters with Federation warships, I must again state that the Raider is not intended to do battle with warships, but should be able to illicit a hostile response and observe, record and escape. There really is relatively little resources required by the UN here for a valuable return on their investment.
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Apr 7, 2013 01:22
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I've been thinking about the potential of Raw_Beef's ship, and I've come up with a couple of ideas for what we could do with it: Mine Raiding: If Raw_Beef's ship is using the same missiles that the Samars did to take down the Moskvas, then it stands to reason that the Misrata would probably win in a one-on-one fight with a Moskva if it had the element of surprise. If that's the case, we could easily take out the Moskvas guarding Fred's asteroid mines (assuming they left 1 Moskva per mine) and force them to consolidate their fleet into larger formations to keep it from happening again. Not to mention the fact that if the asteroids are manned by automines, we can outright destroy them and force Fred to rebuild them or start losing ground economically. This ties into my second idea- BFM Morale: Think about it-the Misrata, the pride and joy of the BFM, taking on Federation ships and winning, striking down the oppressors across the solar system. That would give the BFM a considerable morale boost, and it would inspire them to keep fighting the Feds. Not to mention the fact that Fred would look bad-why can't their massive fleet stop one single raider? How can one ship keep hurting the Feds so badly? Etc. etc.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:12
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Any doubts about Raw_Beef and his crew's loyalty should have been blown away when they rammed a Federation warship in a museum relic. (Their sanity is a whole different matter.)
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Apr 7, 2013 02:16
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Raw Beef's idea and arming the BFM is exactly what we should be doing. The idea of letting a few of our weapon shipments to the Mars garrison be knocked off is brilliant as well.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:26
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Both Raw Beef and Dr. Snark's ideas are sound and are all the more reason to support the Space Pirate Initiative.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:33
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I support the covert repair and refitting of Raw Beef's ship.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:48
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I support the space pirate initiative. Its cheap and entertaining!
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Apr 7, 2013 02:54
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Anta posted:Any doubts about Raw_Beef and his crew's loyalty should have been blown away when they rammed a Federation warship in a museum relic. (Their sanity is a whole different matter.) In this case, an insane man is exactly what we need to carry out this operation.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:24
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Anta posted:Any doubts about Raw_Beef and his crew's loyalty should have been blown away when they rammed a Federation warship in a museum relic. (Their sanity is a whole different matter.) Agreed. My continuing concern is that when it comes to void warfare, there are precisely two games in town: The UN, and The Fed. If an ex-federation warship suddenly starts turning up, raiding Fred assets in the system, and generally causing havoc, using weaponry that may as well be stamped with the UN logo, what is the Fed response going to be, and how are we going to be prepared for it? I'm not at all convinced that Fred knows how up-against-the-ropes he has us, militarily, but it would be a damned shame if the Federation gloomily decided that war was its only option, and then walked all over us. We'd look like fools, and the Federation would have a renewed edge on us. I'm not saying don't refit
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Apr 7, 2013 03:33
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Well, sorry for making you feel bad, Raw_Beef. Don't take anything I say too seriously or intended to genuinely hurt your feelings, though. Especially not from here on.Raw_Beef posted:Secondly, in the eyes of the UN, my character should not be considered an extreme risk. I've never done anything to harm the UN, I was officially cleared from blame for the missile launch (sticky button cover, i maintain) and then sent to rot forever on Mimas. When given the chance at a Void command of any kind i took it, and knowing i was in the right place and right time to stick it to the Fed, I did everything i could to assist the UN in the mars crisis. Had i born the UN any ill will, I'm sure i couldve acted in some way on it, but considering how things ended It wouldntve mattered. Who -hasn't- been sent away to rot forever on a rock in the middle of nowhere. Raw_Beef, you've been writing your character for a while now, and I feel you've written him into something of a corner. It's not that you have attacked, or will attack, the UN, as much as that from a certain point of view you have a terrible track record. You effectively defected to a rogue state. You rammed your ship into a Fed ship, an incredibly risky and dangerous maneuver, for no real purpose other than kill off a few dozen men, some of them your own, (as that's about all the good it did). Then you accepted the image of a war hero when you had little to no actual effect on the proceedings of the First Solar War and now you want us to support you on your mission for revenge, running the very real risk of the UN re-raising the ire of the superpower who has just finished beating us up and taking our lunch money. Oh, and you were requested personally by Tilde to accompany you to Mars, who presently may or may not have defected to the Federation. From an in-character view, one can easily argue that one sees your character has become a glory hog, a reckless loose cannon and/or fanatic and showing no signs of stopping that, appearing for self-aggrandizing interviews on Space Fox News and suggesting tempting missions of intel recon and space privateering that, sales pitch, cannot go wrong since you and everyone in your crew would die before surrendering.  To put it short, you've not just written yourself into fame. You've written yourself into infamy. Not everyone is going to agree with the things your character has done and what he wants to do, or think his intentions entirely forthright (even if they are). Dr. Scribbleykins is such a person, hesitant to launch resources worth millions of euros into space at the behest of this person he believes Raw_Beef has become. I feel the absolute -kindest- thing the UN could do to the man you're currently writing, and his crew, would be to offer amnesty to the latter and arrest the former for insubordination and dereliction of duty (usually you're supposed to give some advance notice on resignations), pass him through the legal system, give his fingers a symbolic rap and ensure he is permanently disbarred from any kind of military job in the UN ever again. At least until the next crisis and the recruiters grow desperate. Speaking of your crew, they're meant to be a wonderful and dedicated bunch, I'm sure, but how would you know any of them do not have ulterior motives, loyalties or just plain old second thoughts? You can't. Not without going full-on meta. The Mars Debacle still leaves a lot of doubt regarding the true nature of the uprising and the military personnel within it. You have a ship full of those military personnel. The ramming of the Riyadh does not automatically make everyone above suspicion despite however much one may feel so. In this case, the Feds only need one whistle-blower or inside agent to blow this thing wide open, which is a risk we simply shouldn't take. Not that it matters much, though, as with your current plan they'll in all likelyhood blame us for supporting you and your deeds anyway.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:34
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I propose that we start by having Raw_Beef run some intel missions. That way we could see if his ship and crew are up for more intensive tasks, such as harassing Fed ships. If we're going for a backstory to deny our involvement to the Feds, we could always claim we had him and his crew locked up, but they escaped in one of our experimental ships (hey, if we're going full cartoon plot, let's hit it to the max!).
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Apr 7, 2013 03:53
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While having fast raiders would be useful during wartime, but harassing federation convoys outside of a crisis is a pretty bad idea. Considering the limited number of organizations manufacturing trans newtonian weapons, running shipyards, and operating fuel depots, the federation shouldn't have a hard time figuring out who's behind any piracy. They might believe it was a stolen experimental ship the first time, but if it keeps getting rearmed and resupplied I doubt they'll have doubts very long. I would expect them to use this as a causus belli to force us to make further concessions if we go through with it.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:03
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Scribbleykins posted:Good Scribbleykins does make some good points here, but I feel that there are a few facts I should offer in Raw_Beef's defense: While as many of you know, he did go over the BFM, he was also sending me information that he believed could use against Soman while he was in it. You all probably forgot because that information didn't lead anywhere (remember Jones?), so it was ignored. Before he rammed the Riyadh, he quietly told me that he was planning on assisting the Lictor in any way he could. Granted, his plan ended up being near-suicidal, but he and his crew were legitimately trying to help, even if it didn't make a difference in the end. Maybe he is self-aggrandizing, a glory hound, and such. That would be the reason I would be on there, to ensure that he would be kept in line. I freely admit that I want his ship to be finished for my own purposes-hell, it's the main reason I'm supporting him! But I would still trust him, even if he is a bit reckless. Besides, the rest of us have done some pretty crazy and dirty things ourselves-need I remind you all about November Blue? Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 05:48
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Oh, before I forget, voting for Saros
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Apr 7, 2013 05:55
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Scribbleykins posted:...Oh, and you were requested personally by Tilde to accompany you to Mars, who presently may or may not have defected to the Federation. Ah ha! So, a vote for (George) Saros is a vote for Space Pirates? Then put in another vote for Saros
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Apr 7, 2013 06:20
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Because I didn't make it explicitly clear what time the voting would end (how do I time zoned?), I'm going to go ahead and extend the deadline until  8 April 2013, 0:00 UTCThis is just over 18 hours from the time of this post. Update tomorrow in the interim.
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Apr 7, 2013 06:54
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| # ? May 10, 2024 05:02 |
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Just a friendly reminder: A Vote for Saros is a vote for  , space piracy, proxy wars and the ZF-1.Vote Saros for UNSA.
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Apr 7, 2013 07:15
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