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Wildlife Analysis posted:The issue is that no one knows their belief system for sure. We especially do not know the younger's. Terrorists, fine, but why? It is something that has to be answered. And what would you do with that "answer"?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:07
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Fog Tripper posted:And what would you do with that "answer"? In terms of dealing with him? There is very little you can do. He should be going to jail for the rest of his life. It may help us understand why this might happen with a 19 year old who seems to be pretty much an average American guy, though. If the answer is that he hated America because of a perceived oppression of Islam, then it becomes about what we don't do with that info (i.e. harass Muslims). And if he was part of a cell, then it becomes about attempting to prevent this kind of event repeating. Do we really need to start stereotyping Texans? VVV Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:11
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Lolie posted:I think many Americans are largely unaware of the extent of dislike for the US which exists even in nations which are allies. I remember some research being conducted on attitudes towards the US not long after 11 September 2001 and many Americans being genuinely shocked at how their nation was regarded by the outside world in general and not just "rogue" nations controlled by dictators with a religious or other ideological agenda. Hell, up until 11 September 2001, I think it had been a long time since many Americans even considered the question of whether the US was hated, let alone to what extent and why. The stereotype of ugly Americans abroad largely comes from Texans abroad, according to international friends. Loud, trashy, smoking, drunk rednecks, littering everywhere and acting like they own the place.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:17
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Petey posted:At public schools. I went to UMass, and our cops were employees of the state. Smith's "public safety" officers, on the other hand, were basically mall cops. I don't know where MIT falls on this spectrum. The only time I've ever interacted with them is staffing events. The campus is very peaceful.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:18
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As an aside, will the amount he'll be charged with draw out the trail longer? Maybe they'll try to minimize or drop some for the sake of brevity/getting him sentenced quickly.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:18
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AsInHowe posted:The stereotype of ugly Americans abroad largely comes from Texans abroad, according to international friends. Loud, trashy, smoking, drunk rednecks, littering everywhere and acting like they own the place. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:18
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SlenderWhore posted:As an aside, will the amount he'll be charged with draw out the trail longer? Maybe they'll try to minimize or drop some for the sake of brevity/getting him sentenced quickly. I guess if what they charge him will get him the rest of his natural life in prison then it doesn't matter.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:21
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Samurai Sanders posted:Not that I was particularly presenting it as a negative, but I told people in Japan that the stereotypes they have about Americans are mostly the same stereotypes we have of Texans. And of course they're just as ridiculous and generally untrue. Americans are as well behaved abroad as any other group, and any dumb poo poo is as likely to come from any other state as it is Texas.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:24
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Good, smart analysis: http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/fathers-sons-chechnya.html
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Apr 21, 2013 02:29
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AsInHowe posted:The stereotype of ugly Americans abroad largely comes from Texans abroad, according to international friends. Loud, trashy, smoking, drunk rednecks, littering everywhere and acting like they own the place. I'll see if I can find the research. It wasn't about attitudes to Americans abroad, it was about attitudes towards the US as a nation. A huge amount of the negative attitudes related to what was perceived as "bullying" or unwarranted "interference" by the US in the affairs of other nations, including allied nations. I recall that the thing people most admired about the US was its "can do" attitude and its innovation, but that overall the responses were negative and in more than a "wouldn't want to live there" way. I'm seeing a bit of that attitude resurface here now with the return of US military/intelligence bases to Australia and yet another trade agreement which would effectively impose US copyright laws on other nations being negotiated. It mightn't rise to the level of active hostility, but I'm definitely hearing a lot more "gently caress off America" sentiment now than I've heard for a long time. It's much easier for me to wrap my head around why an outsider with a grudge against the US might commit an act of terrorism than it is for me to wrap my head around the possibility that this was an act of domestic terrorism based solely on discontent with one's own government. Domestic terrorism is something I really don't understand unless those in power are being directly targeted (a la Guy Fawkes). Batshit crazy seems almost comprehensible by comparison. Lolie fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:30
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Lolie posted:I think many Americans are largely unaware of the extent of dislike for the US which exists even in nations which are allies. I remember some research being conducted on attitudes towards the US not long after 11 September 2001 and many Americans being genuinely shocked at how their nation was regarded by the outside world in general and not just "rogue" nations controlled by dictators with a religious or other ideological agenda. I think a lot of that comes from the mythological status most of our society has assigned to World War II. Bring up pretty much any argument against US foreign policy by another nation, ESPECIALLY an allied nation, and you'll have dozens of howling pundits and millions of regular people crying about how we saved everyone else's rear end in ww2. How daaaaare anyone not agree with us now! Lots of folks don't just see this country as a superpower, they see us as a superhero. Under that view, it's totally inconceivable that anyone might have a problem with us. They'd have to be crazy or evil, or maybe both.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:33
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Lolie posted:I think many Americans are largely unaware of the extent of dislike for the US which exists even in nations which are allies. I remember some research being conducted on attitudes towards the US not long after 11 September 2001 and many Americans being genuinely shocked at how their nation was regarded by the outside world in general and not just "rogue" nations controlled by dictators with a religious or other ideological agenda. Hell, up until 11 September 2001, I think it had been a long time since many Americans even considered the question of whether the US was hated, let alone to what extent and why. Do you have a chart or graph of this so I can put it in a spreadsheet?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:34
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I was on my way back from a (disappointing) trip to the Alchemist brewery in VT, and saw a crapload of cop cars along 93N between Wilmington and Boston for Collier, it was pretty cool. Those police dudes can have their day and then it's over to the courts! Please tell me  still exists.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:35
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I've seen a picture floating around on facebook of White Hat at the marathon in a crowd with what looks like Martin Richard in the foreground watching the runners. Anyone know if this picture is real/not photoshopped? It is really horrifying.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:35
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Woman posted:I've seen a picture floating around on facebook of White Hat at the marathon in a crowd with what looks like Martin Richard in the foreground watching the runners. Anyone know if this picture is real/not photoshopped? It is really horrifying. This one is real. [ Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:37
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pzy posted:I was on my way back from a (disappointing) trip to the Alchemist brewery in VT, and saw a crapload of cop cars along 93N between Wilmington and Boston for Collier, it was pretty cool. Those police dudes can have their day and then it's over to the courts! Please tell me What was disappointing about the alchemist? I mean, what were you expecting?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:40
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gfanikf posted:This one is real. Stop posting this loving picture. The gently caress is wrong with you people?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:41
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Please don't post that picture. 
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Apr 21, 2013 02:41
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Oh Heady Topper was great, they had just run out of any to buy :P
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Apr 21, 2013 02:41
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So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. I am sorry, but I do not agree with this at all. Not only is it against the our very laws, but it is stupid as hell. I mean lets just say that they go through with this and he survives. I am pretty sure that technically he could walk due to improper procedure being carried out. And really, this is America. We have laws and rights for a reason. You can't just ignore them just because of public outcry. And really, how is this any different than: -the unibomber -The Oklahoma City bomber -The Aurora Colorado shooter -Various letter bombers None of these crimes had the feds infringing upon the rights of the perpetrator, and the first three were far more deadly than the Boston bombing. And now we have John McCain and some other Republican representative calling for him to be tried as an enemy combatant. What the hell? How is there any justification for that at all? This is an act of violence, not an act of war. It also wasn't an act of revolution or espionage. If you infringe upon the rights of this guy then what is stopping people ignoring these laws in other cases such as bank robberies or other crimes?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:41
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pzy posted:Oh Heady Topper was great, they had just run out of any to buy :P Ah, well that would be very disappointing indeed!
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Apr 21, 2013 02:42
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Yeah that pic is worse than any gorey aftermath could be. And for what it's worth: quote:911 Operator @911BUFF
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Apr 21, 2013 02:42
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. None of these had the suspects throwing bombs at the cops trying to arrest them.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:43
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. What on earth are you talking about? You have literally no idea what miranda warnings are or how they are applied. Go read a wikipedia article on it. I mean my god its been explained literally dozens of times in this thread. He is being treated like any other American. He is not being deprived of any rights.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:43
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/hierarchy-brothers-question-marathon-bombing Interesting details here quote:Anne Kilzer of Belmont would go to the Tsarnaev home for regular facials from the boys' mother, Zubeidat. She said the older brother was a "macho guy," whereas Dzhokhar seemed more cerebral. edit: bolded part sounds like pretty textbook radicalization Xandu fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:44
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Does it even matter? He was unconscious when they put him into the ambulance and even if he was not he was bleeding out. It would not have made any difference.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:45
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. You really haven't read any of the explanations for this.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:45
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. This has been covered at length in both this thread and the one in DnD. There's no chance he's going to walk on improper procedure, his rights are still intact, and in any case he probably wasn't in any condition to understand anything at the point of his capture anyhow.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:46
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. This has already been discussed. Not reading his Miranda rights doesn't mean that he doesn't have those rights. The initial interrogation isn't about getting evidence, it's about finding out if he has any other bombs rigged to go, or accomplices who are going to bomb things right now. It is a public safety issue. Likely he will get Miranda read to him when they actually question him in regards to the actual crime. e. and yeah, none of those other guys were caught after a firefight in which they threw bombs at the cops. platedlizard fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:47
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Wildlife Analysis posted:Does it even matter? He was unconscious when they put him into the ambulance and even if he was not he was bleeding out. It would not made any difference. It bothers me because people who don't understand what a miranda warning is outside of Law and order and are going on "gently caress this oppressive country" rants.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:47
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bonestructure posted:The car was located and the friends really were arrested (I thought that was a joke earlier.) It reads Terrorista #1. (Sorry for linking to the Daily Mail, they're the only ones I found with clear photos.) afaik that is the corsairs' current logo so this photoshop at least had some attention to detail
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Apr 21, 2013 02:47
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Bizarre to say the least.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:48
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. You are dumb and this post is dumb. The limited questioning that may or may not be done prior to his Miranda rights being read will, if conducted, be very narrow. Any extensive questioning concerning the details of this specific incident to be used in court will be conducted after his Miranda rights are read.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:48
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ClemenSalad posted:It bothers me because people who don't understand what a miranda warning is outside of Law and order and are going on "gently caress this oppressive country" rants. Well a lot of these same people think that not giving the Miranda is "withholding rights" from people, so... e: Also, that article Xandu posted is interesting. That seems to suggest that the influence came from the mother, not the brother.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:50
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ClemenSalad posted:It bothers me because people who don't understand what a miranda warning is outside of Law and order and are going on "gently caress this oppressive country" rants. People who would say that about a guy who blew up a marathon, shot two cops, carjacked a guy, and threw bombs at the cops trying arrest them, are really loving stupid and would likely say that anyway. edit: by the way, after writing all that out I'm really impressed that the cops and FBI really did try to take them both in alive, and managed to actually get one. They were calling in for "less lethal" rifles that night (ie, rubber bullets, beanbags, etc) and flashbanged him to submission despite him firing on them. They had a really good response to the situation and the FBI and Boston BD deserve a ton of praise for how they handled it. platedlizard fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 02:52
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jadebullet posted:So I have just read that they have decided not to give him his Miranda Rights before they question him. Really? You literally think that he would "walk out" after the events of the past week because of a "GOTCHA!" legal loophole? You honestly, sincerely think that?
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Apr 21, 2013 02:52
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platedlizard posted:This has already been discussed. Not reading his Miranda rights doesn't mean that he doesn't have those rights. The initial interrogation isn't about getting evidence, it's about finding out if he has any other bombs rigged to go, or accomplices who are going to bomb things right now. It is a public safety issue. Likely he will get Miranda read to him when they actually question him in regards to the actual crime. And it's also been explained like a jillion times, even if he never gets Mirandized and/or the judge rules he should have been, he doesn't walk. Anything they learned would just be thrown out. Any and all of the physical evidence they have against him would be fine and admissible
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Apr 21, 2013 02:53
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Sorry I just came back to the thread, and this Miranda rights thing seems really weird. Why don't they just read him his Miranda rights? Isn't that supposed to happen RIGHT when you get arrested? Why are they explicitly NOT doing this? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 21, 2013 02:54
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Read the thread jesus christ.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:55
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It's official. Goons can't read good.
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Apr 21, 2013 02:55
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