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That ending sequence was beautiful and well-done from start to finish. Shows like this, Breaking Bad, and Mad Men (among others) are reminders that -- while massive budgets and a carte blanche for nudity and profanity can produce good television -- what you actually need for a great show is good writing, good acting, and good technical skills regarding lighting/editing/cinematography. That may seem like an obvious statement, but a lot of excuses and low expectations have been made for non-premium television when the fact is networks need to just step the gently caress up. This is the History Channel, for God's sake.
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Apr 22, 2013 06:19
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When the Priest was holding the cross and was not acceptable I kind of chuckled and imagined that this guy was standing behind him. Losing Leif would kind of blow too, large and pretty tough warrior. unlawfulsoup fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 06:33
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Where do the sacrifices go after they die? I hope Leif gets his spot in Valhalla, he certainly deserves it.
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Apr 22, 2013 07:07
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Brennan posted:Interesting that they made him deny Christ three times By "interesting" I assume you mean "loving awesome." He handled it perfectly the first two, but by the third he was unsettled and waiting for the rooster crow.
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Apr 22, 2013 07:47
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solovyov posted:By "interesting" I assume you mean "loving awesome." He handled it perfectly the first two, but by the third he was unsettled and waiting for the rooster crow. Also the scene where the bible he'd saved after all that crumbled in his hands. Did Ragnar offer him as a sacrifice to challenge him to consider his faith, obviously they couldn't have sacrificed a non-believer and upset the gods, no one wanted that. Also, aww Gyda.
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Apr 22, 2013 08:15
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Yeah I'm a little confused about Ragnar's thought process here. I assume he knew the sacrifices have to be willing? And he also knew Athelstan had no idea what the Hel was going on? So what made him think this was going to work out?
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Apr 22, 2013 08:42
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I almost made a comment about Aslaug showing up a couple weeks ago, but Lagertha seemed like such a major character. I wonder how they're going to handle that whole thing.
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Apr 22, 2013 08:49
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BrianWilly posted:Yeah I'm a little confused about Ragnar's thought process here. I assume he knew the sacrifices have to be willing? And he also knew Athelstan had no idea what the Hel was going on? So what made him think this was going to work out? He did not seem that upset that it did not work out, so I am not sure myself.
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Apr 22, 2013 09:29
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BrianWilly posted:And he also knew Athelstan had no idea what the Hel was going on? You're not as clever as you think 
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Apr 22, 2013 10:17
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BrianWilly posted:Yeah I'm a little confused about Ragnar's thought process here. I assume he knew the sacrifices have to be willing? And he also knew Athelstan had no idea what the Hel was going on? So what made him think this was going to work out? I think it was just more of the ongoing feeling out process between the two of them. I have no doubt that Ragnar knew it wasn't going to happen. Also that episode was really beautiful and incredibly well made. I really love this show.
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Apr 22, 2013 11:15
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I also climb mountains when I go to Uppsala from Denmark.
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Apr 22, 2013 12:38
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Well that whole episode was loving intense.  I was so scared they were going to sacrifice Athelstan, I actually said "OH poo poo." out loud in shock. Ragnar's kids are going to be so hard when they grow up. Human and animal sacrifices, ain't no thang. I almost like this show as much as Game of Thrones....almost. jazz babies fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 13:46
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Deadpool posted:I think it was just more of the ongoing feeling out process between the two of them. I have no doubt that Ragnar knew it wasn't going to happen. Honestly, the music is what took it from beautiful graphics to Holy poo poo this is one of the most amazingly well put together scenes I have ever seen on television, AND ON HISTORY NO LESS. All the technical skills, music and scenery were absolutely stunning. Does anybody know what the song was / somewhere I can dl it? jazz babies posted:Well that whole episode was loving intense. Did you really think they would sacrifice Athelstan right after the discussion about invading Francia?  (This show is so much better than Game of Thrones, I've turned to watching GoT after Vikings to ensure I don't miss the first few minutes  )
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Apr 22, 2013 15:55
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LOL at them walking to Uppsala. Uppsala is in Sweden. It's like they forgot about boats or something. Brother Æthelstan is not good at preserving books.
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Apr 22, 2013 15:55
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Arglebargle III posted:Brother Æthelstan is not good at preserving books. He was focused on beard upgrades instead.
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Apr 22, 2013 16:26
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I assumed that they just sailed to the Swedish coast, then hoofed it over the mountains to Uppsala. The first part just wasn't shown.
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Apr 22, 2013 16:27
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wikipedia posted:Situated on the fertile Uppsala flatlands of muddy soil...  Uppsala is not far from the sea and situated on a river. You would never climb over a mountain to go there unless you were a crazy person. They got the temple and the sacrificial grove right though.
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Apr 22, 2013 16:38
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I assumed that they just sailed to the Swedish coast, then hoofed it over the mountains to Uppsala. The first part just wasn't shown. I assume the makers of the show don't expect us to look at maps ever. Is there some historical precedent for the creepy maimed priests? It also surprised me that it looked like one of them was wearing a slave collar.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:10
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I liked the episode overall, but as others it somewhat annoyed me they chose Uppsala. From written accounts we know of two places where nine year circles of blot should have taken place. Uppsala and Lejre. In the show we are dealing with all the main characters being danish Vikings (except the priest of course) and even the new character introduced here, King Horik, was a danish king. Now in early Viking age, the main seat of Danish kings was Lejre / Roskilde (at least for the king of the eastern danes, Kings ). Uppsala on the other hand was ruled by swedish kings, so it was a bit strange to see all the danes and the danish king go there and lead the sacrifice. Secondly I did like that they to a degree did take Adam of Bremens account of Uppsala somewhat into account. He describes a temple there, which was decorated with gold, in some translation it had roofs of gold, as seen in the beginning. In it was three statues of the three main gods, all sitting on a tripple throne. Thor, Odin and Frey, with thor being the mightiest, sitting on the central throne, flanked by Frey and Odin. Thor according the Adam holding a mace like Jupiter, We of course know today that it was his hammer, but the comparison is good, since both were thundergods and the mightiest of the gods. Odin sits in Armor and is compared to Mars and Frey sits with a enormous erect penis. Neither should come as a surprise, since Odin is one of the main war gods (the other being Tir, who might have been more popular in Denmark) and Frey is the male fertility god (Sadly Adam probably didn't know about Priapus or was to embarreced to mention him, as Frey is the only god he doesn't compare to a roman). Now Thor being the main god, sitting in the middle and bigger than the rest can seem a bit puzzling, since at least according to the Sagas Odin was the leader of the gods. But from what we can see, Thor was probably far more popular and probably worshipped in a more everyday manor, while Odin might have been reserved for the leaders. Remember the Vikings started to wear Thors hammer as an opposing symbol to the cross. The whole thing with sacrificing 9 of every species is also taken from Adam of Bremens account and I guess they chose Uppsala, because there is such a clear written account of what takes place there. Though Adam tells us the festival last 9 days and one man is sacrificed each day. I can understand why they diverted from this, was seeing the 9 men sacrificed all at once leaves a bigger impression. Adam also tells us that the vikings sings a lot of songs there, but they are all to vile to be wrtten down and are best ignored. So sadly we know little of the songs. I did like the way they portraid King Horic, he seems open to Ragnars idea, but also gives him a warning. That he don't like jarls who act on their own. laying the seed for future rivalry between the two. Which at least according to Saxo ends with Horic killing a lot of Ragnars men after Ragnars death. They have also started to show Ragnar possibly wanting a new wife, so he can have more sons. At least according to legend, he does leave Legertha for another, as it is in the battle for the second wife, he gets the name lodbrok. But since he allready have the name, they might not go into to that part of the story.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:19
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Affi posted:I also climb mountains when I go to Uppsala from Denmark. Judging by the scenery they took the famous shortcut through Western Norway.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:33
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Man I bet Aethelstan feels like a total dick for missing out on all that sweet sacrificing action. Oh well. Leif is leif 
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Apr 22, 2013 18:08
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Pinky Artichoke posted:Is there some historical precedent for the creepy maimed priests? It also surprised me that it looked like one of them was wearing a slave collar. They reminded me of the warlocks in qarth from Game of Thrones.
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Apr 22, 2013 18:18
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Pinky Artichoke posted:Is there some historical precedent for the creepy maimed priests? It also surprised me that it looked like one of them was wearing a slave collar. No there is no historic precedent for it. We know the Vikings most likely had some form of priest/shamans, as several written accounts tell mention them. As far as the sagas goes, sacrifices are often handled by leader of the group, from a landowner sacrificing on his farm to a king (as shown in the episode) sacrificing on a large sacred place. The maimed priests seems more inspired from 300 than anything. In general we know very little of Viking religion. We have the gods names, some of the myths and descriptions of a few rituals. But the Blot as shown in this episode is really build on two written accounts, mainly Adam of Bremen and Thietmar of Merseburg who describes Lejre about the same time, though in less details. In Archaeology we have no evidence for such large sacrifices. On a sidenote, while checking my books, I found a picture of a grave where the deceased head was placed between his legs right below the rear end. Which might have inspired the writtes to the way the earls sons was dishonored. The conclusion in the book was, that this man had been a criminal, who was further dishonored in death.
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Apr 22, 2013 18:34
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Affi posted:I also climb mountains when I go to Uppsala from Denmark. Can some descendants of Vikings tell if the show pronounciation of "upsAAla" is really how the locals pronounce it? Because it annoys me so much.
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Apr 22, 2013 20:17
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etalian posted:He was focused on beard upgrades instead. I didn't even recognize him at first with the change in wardrobe, hair and facial hair. I also thought one of the priests was singing at first during the sacrifice. Is there any accuracy to the collecting of the blood? What would they use it for? The anointing we saw when they first arrived? What about the hanging of the sacrifices? What would happen to them?
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Apr 22, 2013 20:41
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pigdog posted:Can some descendants of Vikings tell if the show pronounciation of "upsAAla" is really how the locals pronounce it? Because it annoys me so much. It's pretty close to the modern way to pronounce it in danish. But norse from 1200 years ago is not the same as nordic languages today, so it hardly matters Cpt.Wacky posted:Is there any accuracy to the collecting of the blood? What would they use it for? The anointing we saw when they first arrived? What about the hanging of the sacrifices? What would happen to them?
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Apr 22, 2013 20:53
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lt_kennedy posted:Also the scene where the bible he'd saved after all that crumbled in his hands. Offering a fake sacrifice would have been an insult to the gods. You generally offered something of great value, so offering the Christian priest would be a suitable sacrifice in that way of thinking as he is indeed valuable. Ragnar thought that the priest was indeed worthy, but it backfired on him, it all turned well though.
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Apr 23, 2013 00:04
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Cpt.Wacky posted:Is there any accuracy to the collecting of the blood? What would they use it for? The holiest sausage ever.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:16
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I love that even as everything is going to poo poo with no viable sacrifice, Ragnar still took the time to joke that Athelstan's god finally came through for him. Not sure how I feel about no one seeming to harbor ill will toward Athelstan's failed sacrifice. Though seeing as everyone but Leif was still calling him Priest, it kind of makes sense.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:19
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Equester posted:Based on the sagas describing blot, yes there is some basis for it. But again, we have little knowledge on how precise the few written accords are Yeah one of the big headaches in understanding Norse culture is the lack of written records to fill in blanks or at least help confirm observations made by outside observers. It's not like the Roman culture were there was a massive wealth of written records to help flesh in piles of details on everything from the economic system, religion to military science.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:21
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Equester posted:No there is no historic precedent for it. We know the Vikings most likely had some form of priest/shamans, as several written accounts tell mention them. As far as the sagas goes, sacrifices are often handled by leader of the group, from a landowner sacrificing on his farm to a king (as shown in the episode) sacrificing on a large sacred place. It would've in some ways been more horrifying if the priests were just warm, cheerful, non-creepy vikings and still oh by the way 9 men must be sacrificed.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:31
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Affi posted:I also climb mountains when I go to Uppsala from Denmark. my location spidey sense is tingling... Horik asks him to travel to Juteland as is emissary which has me thinking Ragnar isn't based in Juteland (denmark) but probably the part of denmark proper that borders Swedens south It can be a bit confusing because the Danes and the Swedes were both from Sweden, the countries didnt have the names they have now, nor the borders. Rocksicles fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 02:13
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Pinky Artichoke posted:Is there some historical precedent for the creepy maimed priests? It also surprised me that it looked like one of them was wearing a slave collar. The priests at the temple had some ritual scarring. The seer that's part of Ragnar's group, I'm pretty sure it's keloid scarring caused by some accident or illness (severe burn, any number of skin diseases). I don't think it's significant, or rather maybe the affliction was interpreted as a mark of the gods. Won't be surprised if I'm wrong if the show ever decides to explain it.
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Apr 23, 2013 05:59
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Rocksicles posted:my location spidey sense is tingling... Horik asks him to travel to Juteland as is emissary which has me thinking Ragnar isn't based in Juteland (denmark) but probably the part of denmark proper that borders Swedens south I think he said Götaland, which is closer to Uppsala, but I might be wrong.
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Apr 23, 2013 06:06
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he pronounced it "Yuteland"
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Apr 23, 2013 06:20
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Was this the last episode of the season or is there one more? I really want to see how Ragnar will "resolve" this problem with this other Earl of Horik's, and whether he divorces Lagertha and what's up with Rollo. The show has done a good job of setting up plotlines that clearly need to go somewhere without having dumb cliffhangers. Did Ragnar really get the name "hairy-breeches" from divorcing his wife? Like hairy breeches in the sense of being restless or maybe being unable to keep his pants on? Because that would be hilarious if everyone is addressing him with this honorific that essentially means Ragnar Drops-Trou or Ragnar Man-Whore.
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Apr 23, 2013 06:43
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Rocksicles posted:he pronounced it "Yuteland" That's the German name for it, the Norse called it Jylland 
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Apr 23, 2013 06:47
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Oh I also want to know if the Vikings were as into threesomes as the show indicates. It's just something they've been weirdly specific about showing repeatedly.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:04
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repeatedly? Who isn't into threesomes?
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Apr 23, 2013 07:13
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Rocksicles posted:my location spidey sense is tingling... Horik asks him to travel to Juteland as is emissary which has me thinking Ragnar isn't based in Juteland (denmark) but probably the part of denmark proper that borders Swedens south They are based near Kattegat, which put them either in north eastern Jylland, Sjælland or Skåne (part of southern sweden that used to be danish). Sjælland or skåne seems more likely, but regardles neither place has mountains. Southern Norway could be their base too, but seems unlikely, since the main characters are danes Arglebargle III posted:Oh I also want to know if the Vikings were as into threesomes as the show indicates. It's just something they've been weirdly specific about showing repeatedly. There are defitnitely several sources that mentions Vikings being very open regarding sex, Adam of Bremen mentions that it was normal for a man to have more than one wife and the laws and sagas tells us that having a bed slave was normal. Specificly threesomes as shown in the series would be hard to prove or disprove. I remember having read that for women sexual intercourse before marriage was not illegal but getting pregnant had some of the same social stigmas as in other societies. Ialso recall one source saying that anal sex was the normal way to avoid that, but I don't have that book near me, so can't check the source.
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Apr 23, 2013 07:30
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