|
I only raided a few times back in WoW. What does a 40-man raid add in terms of game design that you can't do with like a 20-man set-up? Is it just a sense of size and scale that increases? I always got the impression that large chunks of the group were doing the exact same job, which makes the size thing seem like a logistics barrier and little else.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:55 |
|
|
Manifest Dynasty posted:I only raided a few times back in WoW. What does a 40-man raid add in terms of game design that you can't do with like a 20-man set-up? Is it just a sense of size and scale that increases? I always got the impression that large chunks of the group were doing the exact same job, which makes the size thing seem like a logistics barrier and little else. Basically, if you're not a leader, 40 man raids is a great time to spam a handful of macros while you watch a movie or something, and then collect loot once the big health point sponge you've been fighting goes down 20 minutes later. In a 20 man raid you actually need to pay attention and know what you're doing because there's less margin for error.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
NeurosisHead posted:I don't get how people have max level characters within a week of making them. It has taken me ~4-6 months to ever max out a character in any MMO. For me, the leveling is the content, I don't give a poo poo about raiding because I don't have more than an hour or two at a time a couple of times a week to play. Give me an interesting world that I like exploring, with some fun plot lines to see play out while I'm exploring it. Is that really so bad? Is my opinion utterly invalidated by virtue of my "casual" playing? Because I'm happy to pay my $60 sticker price and $15/month (and I always pay monthly, because I don't care about the discount for paying in bulk as I might not play for 2 or three weeks at a time - that means I pay them more than the guy who buys a year at a time over the course of that same year). Is my money less valuable because I play casually? Because these companies ultimately aren't here to make us happy. They're here to make something that they enjoy, and to make money doing it. Should they ignore what players like me want, and the money that we're happy to give them? It happens because we conditioned like two entire generations of MMORPG players with the belief that end game is all that matters. Largely by releasing a score of MMOs in which that was, essentially, the case. The storyline/lore aspects are given a lick and a promise, and there's no real sense of immersion to the world. And no, everything you bring up is a good thing. Boring world design and lackluster content except at high end is the more surefire way to end up with a playerbase that runs in the hamster wheel for lack of anything better to do, and then jumps ship to the newest shiny thing. It's a mistake the Wildstar folks seem to be pretty set on avoiding so far, and I'm glad to see it. Supporting multiple play styles equally is a great concept - it's just really hard to do in practice, and I genuinely wish them the best of luck in managing it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
NeurosisHead posted:I don't get how people have max level characters within a week of making them. It has taken me ~4-6 months to ever max out a character in any MMO. For me, the leveling is the content, I don't give a poo poo about raiding because I don't have more than an hour or two at a time a couple of times a week to play. Give me an interesting world that I like exploring, with some fun plot lines to see play out while I'm exploring it. Is that really so bad? Is my opinion utterly invalidated by virtue of my "casual" playing? Because I'm happy to pay my $60 sticker price and $15/month (and I always pay monthly, because I don't care about the discount for paying in bulk as I might not play for 2 or three weeks at a time - that means I pay them more than the guy who buys a year at a time over the course of that same year). Is my money less valuable because I play casually? Because these companies ultimately aren't here to make us happy. They're here to make something that they enjoy, and to make money doing it. Should they ignore what players like me want, and the money that we're happy to give them? Please, gently caress off? They already have confirmed that there will be content for everyone. They will give you an interesting world to explore, there will be even a special class to explore it. Other than that, players will have loads to do like, obviously, the normal zones but also dungeons, events, housing (well, that is for everyone, but still), etc. As for the plot it seems like the humour in-game is fantastic and will make up for whatever kind of plot cliches we get. Casual players do not have to worry, it was rather the hardcore playerbase that wondered wether they will get to play content that's interesting to them and that's why Carbine elaborated on the subject of raids. Don't be a whiny bitch about how your opinion is undervalued. It's not. Andrew Verse posted:Basically, if you're not a leader, 40 man raids is a great time to spam a handful of macros while you watch a movie or something, and then collect loot once the big health point sponge you've been fighting goes down 20 minutes later. That is correct for previous MMO's but it really depends on how they will design these raids. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 15:41
|
|
|
I'm not sure why anyone is automatically assuming you can sleep your way through 40man raids in Wildstar just because that's how Molten Core was. The WoW developers have gotten much better about designing engaging raid content and if they made another 40man raid it would be excellent. The number of people required has nothing to do with the quality of the encounter design.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:01
|
|
Flumbooze posted:Please, gently caress off? They already have confirmed that there will be content for everyone. They will give you an interesting world to explore, there will be even a special class to explore it. Other than that, players will have loads to do like, obviously, the normal zones but also dungeons, events, housing (well, that is for everyone, but still), etc. As for the plot it seems like the humour in-game is fantastic and will make up for whatever kind of plot cliches we get. Casual players do not have to worry, it was rather the hardcore playerbase that wondered wether they will get to play content that's interesting to them and that's why Carbine elaborated on the subject of raids. Don't be a whiny bitch about how your opinion is undervalued. It's not. Wait, someone giving us his opinion on what he thinks of raiding is irrelevant to this discussion? And the confirmation that raiding shouldn't be the main focus of the mmo because not nearly everyone cares about it is an opinion that can gently caress off? Please, tell me more. Flarestar posted:It's actually a giant warning flag for me any time I see a game developer talk about how raiders are the 1%, or the 2%, or any other similarly low number. That belief is simply wrong, and basing any portion of your game design philosophy around it sets you up for failure if you're making a PVE-centric game. Like it's not even a matter of perspective. The only way in which it's even vaguely accurate is if you're saying "only about 1% of the playerbase clears all of the existing expansion content before the next is released". It completely ignores the fact that a very large part of any PVE-oriented MMORPG's playerbase raids, even if only casually. We saw it in WoW, we saw it in Rift, we saw it in EQ/EQ2, and we've seen it in literally every game that was oriented around raiding at the end-game. 40 man raiding is not conducive to casual raiding unless they make a LFR tool to throw people together and tune them like vanilla fights so you don't actually need coordination, which isn't a hardcore experience. Maybe it's time we start being precise with this and refer to them as "hardcore raiding" and "casual raiding" because the two are only similar in that you get together a really big group of people and beat up giant dudes with them. That's like saying people raiding Molten Core and people raiding Naxx, both at the end of vanilla, were both hardcore raiding groups. They're worlds apart.  Also, that's where I was getting my stupid idea that wow had pretty steady growth up until the release of wrath (the first peak). And that slump right after the release of naxx being where wow slowed down, although that probably had more to do with end of expansion lack of content than anything else. Also it seems pretty clear that what matters more is expansion releases and content for everyone to do, not really raiding, because the corresponding leaps are for expansions and major content patches. I know that what you're saying is you shouldn't discount the hardcore raiding playerbase, which is fine, but you should give them their proper dues given their actual size, which is a lot smaller than you seem to think it is, although I could be reading too much between the lines. How big would you say that hardcore raiding playerbase actually is? Even better if we could find some actual data on it, but I'm failing at finding it, but my ballpark would be maybe 5-10% of the entire playerbase.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:Please, gently caress off? sorry guys no more posting for me
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:18
|
|
|
What the heck caused that dip in the WoW East line?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
Bauxite posted:Wait, someone giving us his opinion on what he thinks of raiding is irrelevant to this discussion? And the confirmation that raiding shouldn't be the main focus of the mmo because not nearly everyone cares about it is an opinion that can gently caress off? Please, tell me more. Not his opinion on what he thinks of raiding, but his whining about his undervalued opinion and the fact that he's asking for something he already should know he's receiving.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:25
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:What the heck caused that dip in the WoW East line? I seem to remember there was a period when WoW China went from one hosting company to another and was unavailable during the transition. That's the only thing I can think of that would've caused a dip that big.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:28
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:Not his opinion on what he thinks of raiding, but his whining about his undervalued opinion and the fact that he's asking for something he already should know he's receiving. It's not whining. The rhetoric from the GLORY DAYS OF RAIDING camp is "gently caress casuals, they don't matter. Keep the endgame sharp because that's what keeps people here". We do matter, and arguably make up a significant portion of the potential subscription base. Which means that fresh pre-endgame content with regular updates, etc., are a Thing that would appeal to a significant portion of the potential subscriber base. I'm not asking for anything from the developers here, I'm asking honestly why casual players are left unconsidered in dialogue like this. Keep fighting the good fight buddy, I'm sure you'll show us all a better way to think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:37
|
|
|
Bauxite posted:Wait, someone giving us his opinion on what he thinks of raiding is irrelevant to this discussion? And the confirmation that raiding shouldn't be the main focus of the mmo because not nearly everyone cares about it is an opinion that can gently caress off? Please, tell me more. Like the true hardcore? 10-15% is probably pretty close. Just because you're hardcore doesn't mean you're competent - there have always been significant numbers of guilds that raid 4-5 nights a week and just don't plow through content for any number of reasons, so they don't contribute to the percentages for the last few bosses of expansions. Sometimes even the last entire raid zone if there's more than 2-3 total in the expansion. Then you've got the "casual raiding" crowd, which is something of a misnomer. There's really like three categories of raiders. When I see the term casual raider I think of the people that just join PUG raids, or only occasionally show up. There's a category in between that and the hardcore dedicated schedule ones though, and it's fairly large - people that'll do 2-3 nights a week, but don't want it to become an evening job so that's about as far as they go. That type of player is actually pretty common, which is why if you track kill stat percentages you'll see pretty high percentages of the playerbase showing up for a good 2/3rds of the raid content - it's just that last third or so where the percentages get down to only the actual hardcore raid crowd. CLAM DOWN posted:What the heck caused that dip in the WoW East line? The transition from The9 to NetEase, combined with China's censorship laws. NeurosisHead posted:It's not whining. The rhetoric from the GLORY DAYS OF RAIDING camp is "gently caress casuals, they don't matter. Keep the endgame sharp because that's what keeps people here". We do matter, and arguably make up a significant portion of the potential subscription base. Which means that fresh pre-endgame content with regular updates, etc., are a Thing that would appeal to a significant portion of the potential subscriber base. I'm not asking for anything from the developers here, I'm asking honestly why casual players are left unconsidered in dialogue like this. Keep fighting the good fight buddy, I'm sure you'll show us all a better way to think. No, it really wasn't. That was what the casual crowd largely claimed the rhetoric from the raiding crowd was, and it's not entirely accurate. The reason a lot of the hardcore raid crowd took that attitude is because the overwhelming demand from the casual crowd was essentially to dumb down the content to make it easymode without changing the rewards. That was eventually done - hence the move to having both normal and heroic modes. While that did substantially increase the number of people that saw and killed the normal mode raid targets, we then saw the exact same cycle of complaints crop up about the Heroic mode raids. Essentially, the rhetoric wasn't "gently caress casuals, they don't matter." The rhetoric was "stop loving it up for those of us actually willing to dedicate the time to clear the challenges you designed." That can be accomodated by having expanded content available for casual playstyles. The problem only arises when the casual crowd basically demands the same rewards for less effort, which is precisely what was happening. Flarestar fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:What the heck caused that dip in the WoW East line? The graphs are almost 100% estimates unless a company includes subscriber numbers in their quarterly reports. The dip could just be less people using Xfire. There's no real way to know.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
Pawl posted:I'm not sure why anyone is automatically assuming you can sleep your way through 40man raids in Wildstar just because that's how Molten Core was. The WoW developers have gotten much better about designing engaging raid content and if they made another 40man raid it would be excellent. The number of people required has nothing to do with the quality of the encounter design. If your raid size is 40 people, you are going to have to include people who are borderline deaf, blind and retarded just to get the raid full. Either you make allowances for this so that unwashed masses will be allowed to sully the glory of raiding with their gaze, or each server will have maybe one group of people who can organize 40 people to function at peak poopsocking efficiency. And disconnections in 10/25man were real enough problem, how many people on average are going to be staring into nether during boss fights with 40 people?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
NeurosisHead posted:It's not whining. The rhetoric from the GLORY DAYS OF RAIDING camp is "gently caress casuals, they don't matter. Keep the endgame sharp because that's what keeps people here". We do matter, and arguably make up a significant portion of the potential subscription base. Which means that fresh pre-endgame content with regular updates, etc., are a Thing that would appeal to a significant portion of the potential subscriber base. I'm not askieng for anything from the developers here, I'm asking honestly why casual players are left unconsidered in dialogue like this. Keep fighting the good fight buddy, I'm sure you'll show us all a better way to think. What Flarestar said and in what way are casual player left with their opinion? They showed us already all the content they have and why should casuals have a say in content that they'll never experience? As long as everyone gets the content he needs, all is well or am I mistaken? I know casual player matter, and I know they're the majority. But that doesn't mean raiders shouldn't get what they want and casuals should not change the raiding content, except when there's no alternative content for casual players. I didn't mean that you were whining about raiding and/or content, but I hate it when people think their opinion is undervalued when it's clearly not. What do you mean when you say 'pre-endgame content with regular updates' btw? Do you think that, due to fourty men raids the team will not release content for casual players? I don't understand this big deal about the raids. They're not being promoted as the main thing in the game. In fact, there's only one article about it where they showed their love for hardcore players. Other than that, every article released has shown things that should be exciting for casual players. They are not promoting this game as a raiding-focussed MMORPG. It is available for the people that want to experience it. It will have little impact on other content. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:36
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:What do you mean when you say 'pre-endgame content with regular updates' btw? Do you think that fourty men raids will prevent the team from releasing content for casual players? Actually yes? A considerable amount of resource's in post release MMOs go to creating new raid content for which only a small percent do. Really, MMOs need to get away from these dumb pinata punching "raids" as end game content and think of something better for people to do at max.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Didn't see this posted yet. Not a lot of new information, but still just listening to everyone's reactions who's gotten to Q&A with carbine, it's just so uplifting. I feel like they're doing so much right. http://www.wildstar-roleplay.com/home/m/11410151/article/1436872 Link is about role-playing and how they can make the RP crowd happy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:Actually yes? A considerable amount of resource's in post release MMOs go to creating new raid content for which only a small percent do. Really, MMOs need to get away from these dumb pinata punching "raids" as end game content and think of something better for people to do at max. I'm hoping they would make the raids hard/enjoyable enough so it lasts a while. That aside, I don't think Carbine consists of retarded people. They know only a small percent of the people do these raids.I did a bit of 'research'. (Well, I Google'd "Wildstar raids"...) quote:Raids are never intended to be one-shot content. Our goal, and the goal of most raid content, is provide extremely challenging repeatable content for players to enjoy and battle against over an extended period of days, weeks, or months. One of the design goals we've had since the beginning, which Jeremy and Mike Donatelli have both talked about in interviews, is to work our hardest to keep that content fresh. The zone and encounters should remain familiar from week to week but also offer enough variance to feel fresh as well. We've worked hard to incorporate that in many ways within our instances, from 5-man dungeons all the way up through the biggest 40-man raids. We want players to look forward to the instance each week, not dread a slog through 'repetitive' content just to improve their +2 Sword of Boss-slaying to +3. That means two things to me. A) Casual players will also have fresh content every week, but within the same 'dungeon'. A smart idea if they work it out properly. B) it allows them to give us fresh content without having to spend lots of hours of work that they could spend on genuine new content, like everyone desires. That means that they will have time to deliver us both pre-endgame content with regular updates and satisfy hardcore raiders (but also casual players) by changing the previous content a little each time. Note that they say "an extended period of days, weeks, or months" when they talk about the raids, so that's another way of saying 'do not worry, raiders will be able to keep themselves busy with the content that's been released while we work on new content for casual players." Obviously resources will go to end-game content but if they can keep their promise, they won't need to work all the time on raids and when they release new raid-content, it will be sufficient for a while. EDIT: Oh look, now they love roleplayers aswell. God drat, they'll be all out of resources for new content if they continue loving every kind of player! Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:They are not promoting this game as a raiding-focussed MMORPG. It is available for the people that want to experience it. It will have little impact on other content. Except you and I both know this is bullshit. How can a company that is a fraction the size of Blizzard with an even smaller fraction of the budget do what they could not, produce high quality content for both the hardcore and casual crowd at a consistent pace. Of course in your mind providing 'content' for the casual crowd is probably adding in a new Daily Quest hub every 3 months that they can grind over and over for mediocre pallet swapped rewards. While the Hardcore deserve entire new raid dungeons with complex boss fights, all new loot tables with unique graphics and special rewards like rare mounts. That's what happened in Vanilla WoW and the hardcore crowd just couldn't understand why the more casual base was upset since both sides were getting new 'content'. The entire point of MMOs like this is to get cool loot to make your character stronger and look prettier. If all the best stuff comes from 40 man raids then that IS the focus of the endgame despite what the Devs or the proud 2% tell you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 18:58
|
|
|
Rylek posted:Except you and I both know this is bullshit. How can a company that is a fraction the size of Blizzard with an even smaller fraction of the budget do what they could not, produce high quality content for both the hardcore and casual crowd at a consistent pace. May I mention that I never experienced a raid and have always been a casual player myself? No I do not think that's what new content for the casual crowd is. I don't know if you've seen my edited post where I explained a bit more on how they plan on doing this. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:01
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:That means two things to me. A) Casual players will also have fresh content every week, but within the same 'dungeon'. A smart idea if they work it out properly. B) it allows them to give us fresh content without having to spend lots of hours of work that they could spend on genuine new content, like everyone desires. That means that they will have time to deliver us both pre-endgame content with regular updates and satisfy hardcore raiders (but also casual players) by changing the previous content a little each time. How did you interpret and read into that quote like that  They simply talked about variance with an instance so people have some change every time they run it.Do you work for Carbine or something and have insider knowledge?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:Note that they say "an extended period of days, weeks, or months" when they talk about the raids, so that's another way of saying 'do not worry, raiders will be able to keep themselves busy with the content that's been released while we work on new content for casual players." Obviously resources will go to end-game content but if they can keep their promise, they won't need to work all the time on raids and when they release new raid-content, it will be sufficient for a while. It really seems like you've run a business that has created and published MMO's before, and/or are an ex-employee and think that just because blizzard can't zerg it with billions of dollars that no one else ever can create a game that will cater to every crowd. Can you see the future?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:07
|
|
|
Rylek posted:The entire point of MMOs like this is to get cool loot to make your character stronger and look prettier. If all the best stuff comes from 40 man raids then that IS the focus of the endgame despite what the Devs or the proud 2% tell you. I sincerely hope they do not do this. Sure raiders can have their elitism but it remains bullshit that if you want to look cool and have powerful gear you are forced to raid and if you hate raiding then tough poo poo, go farm some dailies for a month. What MMOs need to do is introduce a stat on gear called a "Raid" stat similar to pvp resilience in WoW. The more of that stat you have the better you do in raids but your gear outside of raids is no better than everyone else who runs heroic dungeons or pvps regularly. This way you can have your progression in raids but the rewards you get don't stomp all over someone else's dick. If you want to raid so you can be more powerful outside of raids to show off to all the plebeians on the internet I suggest you go outside and get some friends or something because that is just sad. It basically comes down to the "privileged" few get to be more powerful because they are willing to put their dicks in a blender while most people are like gently caress that its a horrible concept and horrible activity to do so why the hell would I do it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
BadLlama posted:I sincerely hope they do not do this. Sure raiders can have their elitism but it remains bullshit that if you want to look cool and have powerful gear you are forced to raid and if you hate raiding then tough poo poo, go farm some dailies for a month. Agreed totally. Why don't devs do that "raid stat" thing? They think it's acceptable for PvP with resilience or whatever, why not for the elitist raid content? They get their magic number to make them hit giant 40 person dragons harder, and other people don't feel left out or dickstomped because they don't have hours a day to dedicate to videogames. It's a win-win.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:11
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:How did you interpret and read into that quote like that But they've talked about change that will keep us satisfied for days, weeks and even months. I'm believing them on their word here. None of us can possibly know what is true and what is not. That said, I just don't want to write off their ideas before I see wether they work or not. And no, I do not work for Carbine. sTIckHead, I can not. Can you? Also, raiders didn't want to get their gear because it had the best stats, but because it looked cool and because only a small amount of people had it. It was exclusive and it showed what you reached. That said, I wouldn't mind raids dropping skins at all. (At least, if it's a permanently item and you can always equip them on the next gear that you get.) Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:Agreed totally. Why don't devs do that "raid stat" thing? They think it's acceptable for PvP with resilience or whatever, why not for the elitist raid content? They get their magic number to make them hit giant 40 person dragons harder, and other people don't feel left out or dickstomped because they don't have hours a day to dedicate to videogames. It's a win-win. I still think the rewards for the raid content should be unique to the raid content. However, instead of making it so that ONLY the coolest stuff drops from raids is where they have their chance to impress. The gear/mounts/cool weapon effects i think could be unique to the avenue of game-play you used to get to them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:20
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:Agreed totally. Why don't devs do that "raid stat" thing? They think it's acceptable for PvP with resilience or whatever, why not for the elitist raid content? They get their magic number to make them hit giant 40 person dragons harder, and other people don't feel left out or dickstomped because they don't have hours a day to dedicate to videogames. It's a win-win. Rift has/had that (I imagine it's in the expansion as well). Casters and Melee needed a certain amount of something (I'm blanking on the names) before you could step foot into the raids. It was something like +hit or w/e. Without it, you couldn't hit enemies or effectively cast spells. Once you hit the max level, you had to go around and get gear (through a bunch of different, possible avenues) that had that stat. Each tier of raiding had a minimum needed amount. I don't think they were hardcoded into the game, but players determined the correct level. I had no issues with this setup. Doh004 fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:22
|
|
|
sTickHead posted:I still think the rewards for the raid content should be unique to the raid content. However, instead of making it so that ONLY the coolest stuff drops from raids is where they have their chance to impress. The gear/mounts/cool weapon effects i think could be unique to the avenue of game-play you used to get to them. Exactly, if they make it so every aspect of the game has its own 'cool gear' there is no problem. Cool gear should not be exclusively for raids, but it should be there. sTickHead posted:It really seems like you've run a business that has created and published MMO's before, and/or are an ex-employee and think that just because blizzard can't zerg it with billions of dollars that no one else ever can create a game that will cater to every crowd. Can you see the future? Also, I didn't read your post properly but all I can say is... I was being sarcastic about the resources and loving every kind of player thing. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:23
|
|
|
sTickHead posted:I still think the rewards for the raid content should be unique to the raid content. However, instead of making it so that ONLY the coolest stuff drops from raids is where they have their chance to impress. The gear/mounts/cool weapon effects i think could be unique to the avenue of game-play you used to get to them. Yep, raiding should not be the only way to get the coolest/best gear in the game. I can put in just as much time as a hardcore raider in a week, why should my time and effort not be rewarded with something awesome just because I decided to play the game differently?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
Grimby posted:Yep, raiding should not be the only way to get the coolest/best gear in the game. I can put in just as much time as a hardcore raider in a week, why should my time and effort not be rewarded with something awesome just because I decided to play the game differently? If this is the fear everyone had while discussing raiding with me, I do agree with this. There should be an option for everyone to require cool gear. If this is not the case it would suck, but the developer is very open towards feedback and listens to the community. At least, that's the feeling I get when reading their articles. VVVVV: Yes, I quoted a part from that article as well. It gives a good view on what raiding is about in WildStar and how it fits in the game. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
Gonna leave this here: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php Talks a bit about the raid design philosophy behind WildStar, maybe this can clear up some of the debate. Or maybe it'll make it even more chaotic. Either way 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:May I mention that I never experienced a raid myself? Flumbooze posted:Also, raiders didn't want to get their gear because it had the best stats, but because it looked cool and because only a small amount of people had it. It was exclusive and it showed what you reached. If you've never raided, how do you know what raiders want? You're talking an awful lot about something you said you've never done.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:39
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:If you've never raided, how do you know what raiders want? You're talking an awful lot about something you said you've never done. Because I've read a lot of things and I've seen a lot of fights about 'who gets the loot of the raid'. The latter is a problem they have to solve by the way. Just going to add this for everyone else: quote:The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance. But I'm a raider at heart, so I'm really looking forward to gifting you all with the most enjoyable wipes I can manage! Quoted from the raid-article. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
I've seen fans of this game telling developers that non-raid gear should never match ("Be clownsuits") because if non-raid gear looks good, what's the point of raiding? The one thing that does give me hope about how they are handling raids is that they are promising not to lock the storyline behind raids. This is a big problem with just about every other PVE MMO. I'm looking at you, last EQ2 expansion that requires you having raided EQ2 and EQ1 to fully understand what is going on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
Mormon Star Wars posted:I've seen fans of this game telling developers that non-raid gear should never match ("Be clownsuits") because if non-raid gear looks good, what's the point of raiding? So you have exclusive gear that people recognise as raiding gear. That way people know that you have done raiding and succeeded. However, this forces them to go for specific styles for each set of gear or at least have certain returning characteristics. I feel like gear rewards from raids in WildStar won't be as much to 'look cool' but rather to show your achievements. Or at least, that's what I hope it will be. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 20:13
|
|
|
e: Misquoted, whoops, didn't refresh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
Flumbooze posted:So you have exclusive gear that people recognise as raiding gear. That way people know that you have done raiding and succeeded. However, this forces them to go for specific styles for each set of gear or at least have certain returning characteristics. I feel like gear rewards from raids in WildStar won't be as much to 'look cool' but rather to show your achievements. Or at least, that's what I hope it will be. Speaking of, have they said anything about how costuming will work in this game yet? I'm really hoping to get appearance slots and not the annoying transferring thing from a number of other current MMOs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Speaking of, have they said anything about how costuming will work in this game yet? I'm really hoping to get appearance slots and not the annoying transferring thing from a number of other current MMOs. Every single MMO on the planet should just use DCUO's costuming mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 21:18
|
|
|
Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Speaking of, have they said anything about how costuming will work in this game yet? I'm really hoping to get appearance slots and not the annoying transferring thing from a number of other current MMOs. I can't recall anything being mentioned like that. I think it's a great suggestion thoug and whenever you get the chance you should ask them. (Or whoever else wants to.) I like the idea of replacing gear drops with costumes. Edit: Spoke to soon, but other than a confirmation there's no real information. http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_introduction_to_economy.php all the way at the bottom. Spider2414 fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Apr 25, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 21:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:55 |
|
|
Meh. I think that any gear-based MMO should follow DCUO's method, and assign styles to each piece of gear. Once you equip that piece and unlock the style, you can apply it to any item of that type. E.G. 1H Sword Styles can be applied to any 1H Sword, Helmet Styles to any Helmet, etc. I've always hated how gear-based MMOs end up having your character look like a hobo because none of your gear matches.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 23:26
|
|
