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Nate RFB posted:I would probably die of laughter if that twist were used. I think it would make too much sense though, and thus probably won't be used. 4.0 will just be 1.0 remastered, with the last 20 minutes being a recording of Anno cackling madly. Calling it now.
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Apr 29, 2013 16:35
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WitchFetish posted:Well, I didn't understand poo poo, but looking at the preview, I say I'm ready for more fanservice and EVA CQC. 1. It can be assumed that the skulls are either failed EVA remains, or the remains of the people who were killed during the events at the end of 2.0 (something about transcending into infinity and failing). 2. That's probably a result of her contact with the Angel that took control of Eva03 in 2.0. They had her under quarantine and probably didn't completely remove the mental contamination from being influenced by the Angel. 3. Curse of Eva. Translation = Fan Service (gently caress all the otakus) 4. Probably to keep him from doing any more damage. Shinji hosed up the world pretty badly during his berserk run. 5. I can only assume it was the same as the original series: unify humanity in a god like existence. 6. From Gendo's monologue, it can be assumed they're a mish-mash of both human technology and angel influence. Prototype transcendentals maybe, maybe they were the first to fuse both the fruits of life and knowledge. 7. He probably is. All while rolling around in piles of Yen.
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Apr 29, 2013 16:59
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House Louse posted:11th Angel is those artificial Angels, maybe? Those Mk. 04/Nemesis things were apparently created by SEELE to combat Wille and their Evas. So they're angel-derived like the Evas are, but not proper angels. There were apparently "supposed" to be twelve angels in Rebuild, as everyone except Gendo seems surprised when the 13th appears, including Kaworu himself. Presumably, the 11th was fought and destroyed, and the 12th was sealed into the Mk. 06, both during the time skip. Then everyone decided NERV was awful for some reason (Kaji's snooping again maybe?) and then we're in 3.0 where the 12th broke out and did... something to change Kaworu and Unit 13. Who knows for sure, that's just how I assume the angel thing went down. Judging from the preview, it looks like the enemy in Final is going to be Gendo and his apparently massive loving army of Evas, which would mirror EoE not having any angels but rather humans and their science gone mad doing the antagonizing.
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Apr 29, 2013 17:01
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I can see it now, Rebuild is going to end with Shinji shouting "No, you shut the gently caress up, Dad!" and breaking all of his toys.
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Apr 29, 2013 17:21
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Wade Wilson posted:I can see it now, Rebuild is going to end with Shinji shouting "No, you shut the gently caress up, Dad!" and breaking all of his toys. I'd be down with that if he was breaking all of Gendo's toys instead. 
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Apr 29, 2013 17:37
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I was listening to the 3.0 OST and realized that a whole ton of the choir parts are in English. Anyone take a look at the lyric sheets and glean any meaning out of them in relation to the story? EDIT: I just looked up each of the lyrics on http://evangelion.wikia.com/wiki/Music_from_Evangelion:_3.0_You_Can_%28Not%29_Redo Wow, yeah. This stuff is pretty drat epic. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 17:58
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Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. Like I don't even know what I'm looking at. 
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Apr 29, 2013 18:56
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. I really like those incredibly vague silhouettes down at the bottom.
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Apr 29, 2013 19:08
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. This is why the "too many Impacts, losing interest" thing doesn't really get to me. EoE was "this is the death of human logic;" Rebuild is about living in that environment after the fact. The apocalypse is the new normal. (Works as commentary on the genre, too!)
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Apr 29, 2013 19:16
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv.
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Apr 29, 2013 19:38
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. What's with the creepy teeth? The non-aging time skip was kind of interesting, at least to me, since I watched the TV series when I was 14, and that was nearly 14 years ago. I agree that Anno is speaking to the audience, but maybe not specifically to the otaku? Sort of a "hey you have the same hobbies as when you were a young teen, maybe that's something to think about?  "At the end of the movie, this was the thing pulled out of the ground: http://i.imgur.com/gFciX8h.jpg Some kind of moon chalice? I haven't seen the TV series since I originally watched it, so I was wondering if this was new to the rebuild.
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Apr 29, 2013 19:58
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Sindai posted:Wow, I totally missed that the canyon is lined with gigantic teeth when I watched.
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Apr 29, 2013 20:01
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. Those marks on the Moon look like the ones on the Black Moon in EOE, when it started weeping blood.
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Apr 29, 2013 20:19
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Possibly dumb theory here, but I noticed a little similarity. Gurren Lagann has a 4 act structure, indicated by the changes in the opening theme animations. Eva Rebuild is a 4 movie series. -The first eight episodes and the first film are a somewhat generic giant robot show/movie with pretty good production values and a compelling cast for those not familiar with its antecedents, that set up a lot of what is going to happen later. Doesn't stand on its own, and isn't as good as what follows it, but it necessary to allow the later events to happen. -The next eight (9-16) and second film are a kick-rear end overcoming of depression and learning to love another person interspersed with awesome robot battles, followed by a skippable recap episode. Compare Shinji/Rei with Simon/Nia: a dark haired young mecha pilot with self-esteem problems and who lives in the shadow of "real men" falls in love with the pale skinned clone daughter of a bearded evil guy who wants to control the world because he thinks he knows what's best for it. Said pilot tears the world apart to save her. -The next seven (17-23) and the third film are a time skip into a dark future where it turns out that burning passion, strength, self-confidence, and learning to love both yourself and others just aren't enough to sustain a society, and that in the end the events of the preceding two stories may have been meaningless in the face of what's coming next. Everything is dark and grim, and the protagonist is hated by nearly everyone for the society and immanent destruction that has resulted directly from his actions. -The last arc (24-27) is, well, amazing, and tells act 3 to go gently caress itself with a solid punch to the jaw and a rejection of depressive thinking, with characters learning to grow up and love themselves and forgive one another and actually deal with their problems rather than trying to stop the world based on what might happen if you take a risk or attempt change!  What will happen in the 4th Eva film?Now, I know Anno isn't directly working with Gainax anymore, we've yet to see the 4th film, and that GL can easily be seen as a reaction the original Eva TV and film series, but damned if they aren't matching up closely, in my head anyways. Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 20:29
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Rebuild is based on the Jo-ha-kyū structure. It's even in the Japanese titles. Specifically, the ha movement (3.0) details transgressions.
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Apr 29, 2013 20:35
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Shinji has the choice between accumulating all of mankind into a godlike hive-mind with no individuality (but also no suffering or fear), or going back. He almost commits to the former but realizes at the last moment that it's wrong and backs down. He goes back to being human, and therefore angry, terrified, hosed up, etc. Is he wrong or why does he think he is wrong? Every fantasy I have of the human race eventually leads to merging into one conciousness. I just can't think of any good reasons to reject such a beautiful notion.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:02
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You wouldn't be you anymore. It's functionally no different from death. It seems to be a common thread in anime (Ghost in the Shell touches on it as well) but to some people who put a high value on individualism it's an appalling idea. It's also predicated on the idea that there is only suffering and pain in life, and that whatever positives come out of an individual existence are outweighed to the point that they're not worth it. Now, to have a hivemind where there is no separation between individuals and no barriers or hunger or fear or lust is an interesting idea, but Evangelion specifically does not present that as an option. If Shinji chooses Instrumentality, all individual humans will die and a new entity will emerge in their place, including himself.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:08
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tooooooo bad posted:Stitched image from 3.33. Spoilers obv. Well, I have no idea what I'm looking at either .Do they stand at the "top" of the Nerv HQ, looking down? I was thinking that the pyramid at the top was the new HQ, but it's apparent that they still are in the old and beaten down HQ down in the canyon.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:17
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tsuki posted:At the end of the movie, this was the thing pulled out of the ground: http://i.imgur.com/gFciX8h.jpg
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Apr 29, 2013 21:21
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Khanstant posted:Is he wrong or why does he think he is wrong? Every fantasy I have of the human race eventually leads to merging into one conciousness. I just can't think of any good reasons to reject such a beautiful notion. It necessarily means extinguishing all individuality, which in the context of Evangelion is terrifying for almost everyone who faces it. For the few who embrace it it's a promise of being re-united with loved ones, realizing their secret desires, or escaping from pain -- but the actual Instrumentality sequence(s) make it clear that it doesn't deliver on any of those, it just erases their context in the same way death would. You have a field of infinite potential, but the only way to actually realize any of that potential is to establish limitations and boundaries and work within them. If you mean in real life, I just don't believe the universe is so convenient as to have a Nirvana or a universal source for humanity to "return" to. Life is almost by definition individual and interdependent and trying to erase either aspect seems, to me, anti-life. The Riddle of Feel posted:Now, to have a hivemind where there is no separation between individuals and no barriers or hunger or fear or lust is an interesting idea, but Evangelion specifically does not present that as an option. If Shinji chooses Instrumentality, all individual humans will die and a new entity will emerge in their place, including himself. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what EoE presents as an option. It's just that there's no distinction between "a hivemind where there is no separation between individuals and "a new entity, etc." Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 21:25
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Khanstant posted:Is he wrong or why does he think he is wrong? Every fantasy I have of the human race eventually leads to merging into one conciousness. I just can't think of any good reasons to reject such a beautiful notion. This is a serious question; I hope it doesn't seem rude. How much of Eva have you seen? Just the Rebuild films, or the original series and films too? This is a pretty major theme and there are spoilers for all the original incarnation here. Tuxedo Catfish posted:It necessarily means extinguishing all individuality, which in the context of Evangelion is terrifying for almost everyone who faces it. For the few who embrace it it's promise of being re-united with loved ones, realizing their secret desires, or escaping from pain -- but the actual Instrumentality sequence(s) make it clear that it doesn't deliver on any of those, it just erases their context in the same way death would. You have a field of infinite potential, but the only way to actually realize any of that potential is to establish limitations and boundaries and work within them. It also flat out lies, like Maya thinking Ritsuko needed her  quote:I'm pretty sure that's exactly what EoE presents as an option. It's just that there's no distinction between "a hivemind where there is no separation between individuals and "a new entity, etc." Humanity post-"successful" Instrumenality: a sea of LCL, contemplating its bellybutton. Forever.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:34
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The Riddle of Feel posted:You wouldn't be you anymore. It's functionally no different from death. It seems to be a common thread in anime (Ghost in the Shell touches on it as well) but to some people who put a high value on individualism it's an appalling idea. I see why their version of it seems so bleak. I imagine it less as death and more of an evolution. More in line with a super-organism type thing where all individuals share a collective "body" and have access to everything, everyone's memories, experiences, ideas, etc. Still, if I were in Shinji's place, I'd still opt for the new thing, but then again, I'm not Shinji. House Louse posted:This is a serious question; I hope it doesn't seem rude. How much of Eva have you seen? Just the Rebuild films, or the original series and films too? This is a pretty major theme and there are spoilers for all the original incarnation here. I saw the original series like 10 years ago, and I think both movies. I saw one of the rebuilds like a year ago or something. I know it is a major theme but I don't recall too much explanation going on for lots of things. Also, I saw it a decade ago. Still, I'm pro-LCL now, and I'll be pro-LCL tomorrow. Tuxedo Catfish posted:If you mean in real life, I just don't believe the universe is so convenient as to have a Nirvana or a universal source for humanity to "return" to. Life is almost by definition individual and interdependent and trying to erase either aspect seems, to me, anti-life. It always seemed to me that life was about survival and genetic survival. I don't think there's anything to return too,but where a species goes moving forward all seem like legitimate paths to take. IF a lifeform does a thing, that's what life does. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 21:48
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Stalins Moustache posted:Well, I have no idea what I'm looking at either No clue! i didn't get a good idea of where they were actually looking from. Aside from the crazy teeth and the blood-soaked moon just hanging out (is that the Earth's actual moon? not the black moon from EoE?) it's the bottom of the image that really gets me. It's like the perspective goes weird. Is the dark purple the inside of the "bowl" of a huge crater that the tall structure they're standing on is in the center of? And that weird patterned border above it...
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Apr 29, 2013 21:53
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Khanstant posted:I see why their version of it seems so bleak. I imagine it less as death and more of an evolution. More in line with a super-organism type thing where all individuals share a collective "body" and have access to everything, everyone's memories, experiences, ideas, etc.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:54
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Paracelsus posted:Do you really want everyone in existence to be aware of your every thought and to constantly judge you for them? Imagine the worst parts of high school, amplified by a billion or so. Forever. "If it's with you, I'd rather die!"
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Apr 29, 2013 21:55
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Paracelsus posted:Do you really want everyone in existence to be aware of your every thought and to constantly judge you for them? Imagine the worst parts of high school, amplified by a billion or so. Forever. It's a two-way street.
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Apr 29, 2013 21:57
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0 rows returned posted:It's a two-way street. It's the Internet, but in your head and you can't turn it off.
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Apr 29, 2013 22:04
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Khanstant posted:I see why their version of it seems so bleak. I imagine it less as death and more of an evolution. More in line with a super-organism type thing where all individuals share a collective "body" and have access to everything, everyone's memories, experiences, ideas, etc. I would not want an eternity when I am forever bonded to the dude who writes My Little Pony death-sex fanfiction at the cost of my own individuality. There's not really a more subtle way to put it.
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Apr 29, 2013 22:09
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Meme Emulator posted:Eva is one of the first anime series I ever got into, I saved my money to buy the overpriced VHS tapes and spent about a year collecting them all. Tell your dad that someone on the internet thinks that he's cool.
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Apr 29, 2013 22:18
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tsuki posted:
Cut to a shot of Space-Dog-God running across the cosmos to come get it and the delicious meaty treats inside.
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Apr 29, 2013 22:41
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Khanstant posted:I saw the original series like 10 years ago, and I think both movies. I saw one of the rebuilds like a year ago or something. I know it is a major theme but I don't recall too much explanation going on for lots of things. Also, I saw it a decade ago. Still, I'm pro-LCL now, and I'll be pro-LCL tomorrow. See well, the thing is you'll be LCL, and in turn you won't "be" anything. There won't be any idea of self left, it will just be a perpetual existence of stagnation, reaching a plateau of evolution in which everything stops dead in its tracks. Think for example the Anti-Spirals in Gurren Lagann. That to me doesn't seem like the natural progression of human evolution, it seems regressive if anything. Reverting to a primordial soup for the sake of preservation of the species makes sense if you're like, a bacteria or something, but to a regular human that thought is terrifying and probably worse than death.
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Apr 29, 2013 23:22
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HoneyBoy posted:See well, the thing is you'll be LCL, and in turn you won't "be" anything. There won't be any idea of self left, it will just be a perpetual existence of stagnation, reaching a plateau of evolution in which everything stops dead in its tracks. Think for example the Anti-Spirals in Gurren Lagann. That to me doesn't seem like the natural progression of human evolution, it seems regressive if anything. Reverting to a primordial soup for the sake of preservation of the species makes sense if you're like, a bacteria or something, but to a regular human that thought is terrifying and probably worse than death. I don't think they ever go into any details concerning the abilities of "Humanity" after Instrumentality. Other than describing what would happen to the individual after it takes place.
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Apr 29, 2013 23:42
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Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too.
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Apr 29, 2013 23:49
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SHISHKABOB posted:I don't think they ever go into any details concerning the abilities of "Humanity" after Instrumentality. Other than describing what would happen to the individual after it takes place. Why does it matter what abilities they have? I don't exist anymore and no one I had any connection to exists anymore, it's not like any of it's potential abilities benefit me in anyway. The idea that anyone would see it as the preferred outcome is a little shocking to me. All it is is suicide, the end of your consiousness to escape from pain.
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Apr 29, 2013 23:53
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too. I actually wanted less action sequences, and thought this was way better than the first two movies.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:10
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:18
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:27
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The Riddle of Feel posted:Rebuild is based on the Jo-ha-kyū structure. It's even in the Japanese titles. Sure, except for that 4th part stuck on the end there  I count 4 acts, for the same reason that Waiting for Godot is a two act play. Even if Anno's using the traditional structure, there are 4 discrete bits. Granted, Gurren Lagann does have its share of repetition and eternal return also...
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Apr 30, 2013 00:27
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cafel posted:Why does it matter what abilities they have? I don't exist anymore and no one I had any connection to exists anymore, it's not like any of it's potential abilities benefit me in anyway. I was just pointing out that we can't really say if it's a "regression" in evolution since we don't know exactly what happens after Instrumentality, other than what you've described.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:33
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Rebuild 3.33 is a movie made of episodes 20-24, with less bad stuff happening to Asuka and more timeskipping. There's the very beginning of EoE (not the hospital scene) at the very end, with Asuka filling in for Misato. The focus is obviously on episode 24, with the entire second act being about Kaworu. The timeskip is a flashy retake on Shinji's month missed to being inside of Eva-01, only there is no fanfare for him. There is only the blood of a whole lot of people. He is a stranger in a strange land; isolated by the problems and machinations of others. Misato's reaction to him is a more harsh version of the general not-giving-a-gently caress after Kaji died, but is in tune with her "us or them" mentality from when Kaworu bit it. Rei Q/Shiranami is straight up Rei III without the initial internal turmoil, as well as a starker reflection from the warmer Rei 2(.22). Rei Q herself has the existential confusion and despair of Rei III without a previous existence to draw from, which is arguably more terrifying. Instead of fear, she creates revulsion and obsession with the "proper" Rei, making a pretty blatant duality of Gendo and Shinji. The 0 Sync Rate moment was Asuka in 23, but it was also Shinji getting to sit and watch while Asuka got mindfucked. It's a stretch, but you can extrapolate the entire Unit 13 setup thing as a combination of Rei with Armisael and the Adam/Lilith switcheroo. Kaworu fills the exact same role he was in episode 24; the tragic, all-singing all-loving androgynous albino who gives Shinji that last cruel bit of hope. Since it's the part of the story a lot of Japanese people remember (apparently) it gets the most screentime. He also takes over for Misato and Kaji's attempts at shaping Shinji into something better; he even gets to show Shinji the skeletons in the closet. Unfortunately, Shinji's clinging to the past because it's all he has left; another parallel to Gendo. Ignoring the metatextual idea of Shinji/Anno being the creator/destroyer of anime and the folly of remaking something as big as Eva, there's a sense of the sickness of obsession with Shinji. That used to be Misato's thing, but she's too old for anime relevancy and it creates yet another parallel with Gendo. So yeah, this is the Shinji show, moreso than usual. Mari's there for levity, since everyone sucks a little harder than usual this time. She's also The Other, in the sense that she feels like she belongs in another anime. Like Asuka in the Action Arc did.
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