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wdarkk posted:In theory it'd be pretty easy to avoid most nodefucking as long as you're willing to agree to constraints like "all planets have at least two node connections" and "the graph is fully connected".
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Apr 18, 2013 11:53
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I just fiddled around with civilian colonies in SotS2 as Morrigi to test how they work. It turns out they don't. A civilian colony will have 10 000 civilian population that do not grow ever, but their imperial pop grows normally. This means their income is crap, and that doesn't change if you incorporate them, you are stuck with a lovely colony that produces gently caress all and costs 1-2 million to set up, plus you need diplomacy stations to incorporate them. They also won't build any defenses to defend themselves or even trade with you. Your stimulus is used to build brain-dead space pinátas who will not do anything. Seriously, the civ colony thing would've been the best thing if they built a trade station and a couple of freighters when they had completed the colony, and after that a couple of police cutters / system defense boats to help defend the system. It would've been absolutely perfect. I can never lead a cool space federation now.  Incorporating minor races seems to work, but I have no idea if you actually get any real bonuses. You do get the planet and the population grows normally, though. EDIT: gently caress I wasted way too many hours trying to figure out how the civilian economy works when it just doesn't. I hate myself now. Keisari fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Apr 18, 2013 |
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Apr 18, 2013 12:35
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Splicer posted:I thought all planets in SotS1 had three node connections? The problem is bottlenecks, where you have one set of stars connected to the map by only one nodeline, so if either of the connecting planets is well defended you're basically hosed. I could swear I saw a few with one. Anyway bottlenecks are pretty bad because I'm not sure how you'd test for that in anything better than polynomial time.
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Apr 18, 2013 16:49
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Bottlenecks are just poo poo you need to deal with as Humans. Don't want to deal with nodefuckery? Don't play Human.
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Apr 18, 2013 16:54
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Neruz posted:Bottlenecks are just poo poo you need to deal with as Humans. Don't want to deal with nodefuckery? Don't play Human. I can't tell if this was supposed to be a mecron parody post.
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Apr 18, 2013 18:13
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Keisari posted:I just fiddled around with civilian colonies in SotS2 as Morrigi to test how they work. It turns out they don't. A civilian colony will have 10 000 civilian population that do not grow ever, but their imperial pop grows normally. This means their income is crap, and that doesn't change if you incorporate them, you are stuck with a lovely colony that produces gently caress all and costs 1-2 million to set up, plus you need diplomacy stations to incorporate them. They also won't build any defenses to defend themselves or even trade with you. Your stimulus is used to build brain-dead space pinátas who will not do anything. I've traded with civilian colonies the last time I played, but that was a while ago so I dunno.
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Apr 18, 2013 18:18
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Taerkar posted:I've traded with civilian colonies the last time I played, but that was a while ago so I dunno. Hmmh yeah I recall them working before too. I certainly don't recall seeing their civilian populations frozen at 10 000 even after incorporate before. It looks like they broke them again then or something.
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Apr 18, 2013 18:20
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Taerkar posted:I've traded with civilian colonies the last time I played, but that was a while ago so I dunno. Fifty-fifty odds it was broken by a patch and they didn't notice.
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Apr 18, 2013 18:22
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Nephilm posted:I can't tell if this was supposed to be a mecron parody post. Half and half.
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Apr 18, 2013 18:43
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So what's the state of the game now? is it worth 20€ or is it on sale somewhere? I loved sots 1 but have been holding off the sequel for a long time now, need some good space-fighting stuff.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:42
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It's not worth 20 of your euro-pounds, but it is worth about £5. Wait for a steam sale, or Paradox bundle. It's still not properly finished, although it is possible to wrest a good game from it if you've got the time to put in.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:51
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Here's my take on Sots 2 as it stands: It plays like a 1.0 release in Singleplayer (like SOTS1 at release or maybe at the time of Born of Blood), and a .7 Beta in multiplayer. Multiplayer has a bunch of quirks that are annoying like crashes during combat and end turns, which force you to redo the 2nd player (whoever isn't hosting) turn each time that happens, and some of the turns are very fiddly and time consuming. So Multi could be fun but ends up annoying, and most of the patching effort seems focused on single player unfortunately. The other major problem is that the single player AI is kinda awful. If either multiplayer crashing was fixed or the singleplayer AI is improved, you'd have a playable multi or singleplayer game. The polish and clunky UI things are annoying but tolerable or at least not totally alien to the 4x genre. I would say it's a semi-promising, quite fiddly, and slowly improving slice of 4x pie. There is a real danger that this is as good as it's going to get, so please don't treat this as a work in progress. It's kinda a wreck that's already happened. If you really dig varied tactical combat it's probably worth checking out for one of those $5 or $7.50 sales they have constantly. Given that both the single player and multi still have at least one major bugbear left, I wouldn't pay the $20 until one (or hopefully both) of those issues is fixed.
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Apr 30, 2013 19:02
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Rakthar posted:Here's my take on Sots 2 as it stands: Aethernet posted:It's not worth 20 of your euro-pounds, but it is worth about £5. Wait for a steam sale, or Paradox bundle. It's still not properly finished, although it is possible to wrest a good game from it if you've got the time to put in. I added these to the OP to replace the old "state of the game now" as it was pretty old and in need of a little update.
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Apr 30, 2013 19:13
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I think those are far too many words embellishing "it's not currently playable and will never be; if you buy it's only to admire the trainwreck and figure out an ultimately broken and unfun game."
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Apr 30, 2013 20:36
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Rakthar posted:Here's my take on Sots 2 as it stands: It's important to emphasize how broken the single-player AI is. It does not function. It will bankrupt the gently caress out of itself and use turn 1 ship designs on turn 150 because it has absolutely no idea how to run an economy, do proper research, or prototype ships. The game is effectively unplayable in singleplayer unless you want to beat up on helpless, defenseless AI using turn 1 ships when you discover them and roll into them.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:58
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Kanos posted:It's important to emphasize how broken the single-player AI is. It does not function. It will bankrupt the gently caress out of itself and use turn 1 ship designs on turn 150 because it has absolutely no idea how to run an economy, do proper research, or prototype ships. The game is effectively unplayable in singleplayer unless you want to beat up on helpless, defenseless AI using turn 1 ships when you discover them and roll into them. This is a bit unfair; since the last couple of patches the AI has started deploying ships that take advantage of their tech and expanding more effectively. It's still not amazing, but it's a step in the right direction. To pull back from this praise, I present to you the latest mecron.txt from a thread in which yet another poor naive soul raises even the slightest criticism of the almighty Kerberos: Mecron posted:Sorry to be harsh buts there's a difference between playing pro ball and sitting around on the couch with your buddies imagining your opinion ranks. Never fear, lessons were learned but from your post, most of them you probably wouldn't understand.
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Apr 30, 2013 23:56
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Neruz posted:Bottlenecks are just poo poo you need to deal with as Humans. Don't want to deal with nodefuckery? Don't play Human. It only becomes a problem when a random event like the planet killer destroys the node completely and renders some chunk of the map abut of reach, or when all the lines are 30+LY long
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May 1, 2013 03:14
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Is SoTS 1 available for digital distribution anywhere? Steam and GOG don't seem to have it.
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May 1, 2013 07:10
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StashAugustine posted:Is SoTS 1 available for digital distribution anywhere? Steam and GOG don't seem to have it. Gamestop Now (used to be Impulse) has it.
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May 1, 2013 07:18
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StashAugustine posted:Is SoTS 1 available for digital distribution anywhere? Steam and GOG don't seem to have it. Steam still has it. Sword of the Stars: Complete Collection
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May 1, 2013 07:39
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I've actually had minimal problems playing this game. Of course, yes the AI isn't the greatest, but I have only had my Sots 2 crash probably around five or six times. Granted I made the glorious mistake of preordering this mess, and subsequently staves off playing it until four or five months ago.
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May 1, 2013 07:54
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:It only becomes a problem when a random event like the planet killer destroys the node completely and renders some chunk of the map abut of reach, or when all the lines are 30+LY long Had a game once where I teamed with the bugs for a hard-fought win. You know how your ally always breaks the alliance after the last enemy is defeated? Happened here, and the game didn't end... Because the Tarka we were fighting had an AI rebellion and while they glassed all the AI worlds, there were several worlds that had been cut off from nodelines by the planet killer that still had AI defense platforms, therefore there was still an 'active enemy'. That... was brutal. And after beating the Hivers I had to sublight forces for thirty-odd turns to finish off the AI defense platforms. That was actually a pretty awesome game.
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May 2, 2013 15:56
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Neruz posted:Bottlenecks are just poo poo you need to deal with as Humans. Don't want to deal with nodefuckery? Don't play Human.
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May 2, 2013 16:21
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I remember starting games as Humans in SotS 1 and being forced to research Node Focusing turn 1 if I wanted to get anywhere. SotS 2 not having random maps fixes that problem, although it would be nice to have random maps again.
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May 4, 2013 18:42
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Aethernet posted:To pull back from this praise, I present to you the latest mecron.txt from a thread in which yet another poor naive soul raises even the slightest criticism of the almighty Kerberos: That is pretty subdued for Mecron and the rest of Jonestown over there, even if it was also unintentionally hilarious for Mecron chiding anyone for professionalism with his behavior and releasing this flaming bag of crap. And this gem: quote:Hear, hear! Well said! Mecron is a master of Retort. (eyes tear up...) I myself and others have felt the lash of his wrath since early in SoTS1 days. He is quite right in defending a project he is justifiably proud of. Its like...never tell a mom her baby is not beautiful or you'll get more than Mecron ever dished out. And that ugly baby may well grow into a Charlize Theron or Joe Montana. There are ugly babies and some stay that way. You have to wait till they mature to know. SOTS2 is young...early teens, I'd guess. I just hope it lives long enough to get to where we are all happy...err...or happier. And, for what it is worth, Mecron and Castewarp ate plenty of crow in the early days of SOTS2 and they have made mighty efforts to fix things. They are undoubtably weary of the snapping snouts of surly players, justified or not. With all that said, yeah, SoTS2 needs more work. I am looking forward to playing it as it improves. Yeah, there were quite contrite during "launch".  Though I have a sick feeling that "eating crow" might have a different meaning over there. Also, it is hilarious that any criticism of the game gets a faster/harsher response than the spambots selling British kitchen stuff. Sinister_Beekeeper fucked around with this message at 22:31 on May 4, 2013 |
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May 4, 2013 22:25
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Sinister_Beekeeper posted:That is pretty subdued for Mecron and the rest of Jonestown over there, even if it was also unintentionally hilarious for Mecron chiding anyone for professionalism with his behavior and releasing this flaming bag of crap. Aha I see their still drinking the cool-aid over in mercon land, its like there's a derek smart virus infecting lovely space games. Some psych major should do a study on this.
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May 4, 2013 23:12
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Contrite? Castewar might've been, but Mecron basically went all "Due to entirely unspecified circumstances the code got blown away but we're going to get it fixed." That thread he did in the immediate aftermath was the closest to contrition, but there was never any real hint of humility to how he dealt with people. But hey, his echo chamber and his failure of a game. In the meantime we can all dream about a real MoO sequel.
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May 5, 2013 03:02
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Nalin posted:I remember starting games as Humans in SotS 1 and being forced to research Node Focusing turn 1 if I wanted to get anywhere. SotS 2 not having random maps fixes that problem, although it would be nice to have random maps again. Someone made a random map generator, it's floating around the internet somewhere.
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May 5, 2013 05:26
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Neruz posted:Someone made a random map generator, it's floating around the internet somewhere. There is a link for it in the OP.
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May 5, 2013 13:10
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Ugh. Finally decided to give this game another try, finally got to a stage where I felt comfortable with the lovely mechanics and could play around them, finally got to a stage where I could make Leviathans and bring hot laser death to my enemies. And I run smack into a corrupted savegame  I feel this thread needs an emote like  , only instead of "That's X-COM!", Mecron comes in from the side and then the emote crashes.
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May 12, 2013 20:36
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Don't worry you were about to run into the part where you realize the ai can't play anyway. Your leviathans were probably about to roll over three fleets of fusion missile cruisers and then exterminate planets from offscreen with their heavy missiles. It's pretty depressing.
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May 13, 2013 01:47
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For some reason I keep this game installed even though I haven't played it since the end of January. I guess I keep hoping for that magical patch that makes everything alright. Somebody hold me.
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May 13, 2013 02:57
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RandomBlue posted:For some reason I keep this game installed even though I haven't played it since the end of January. I guess I keep hoping for that magical patch that makes everything alright. Somebody hold me. You are all alone in a cold, unfeeling universe.  So how about the pit? is it getting any serious commitment for polish and is anyone playing it? Im curious but not curious enough to play.
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May 13, 2013 03:07
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Arglebargle III posted:Don't worry you were about to run into the part where you realize the ai can't play anyway. Your leviathans were probably about to roll over three fleets of fusion missile cruisers and then exterminate planets from offscreen with their heavy missiles. It's pretty depressing. Actually, the AI was teching up pretty well, and I even started seeing AI dreads. Mainly because I went into the tech tree and removed two zeros from the end of all the research costs. gently caress spending 20 turns researching X-ray lasers! It seems cheaper research can go a long way to fixing the AI. Of course, after this, I went back and removed the costs entirely. Leviathans for all! 
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May 13, 2013 07:17
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MadJackMcJack posted:I feel this thread needs an emote like Your wish is my command: 
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May 13, 2013 07:49
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What are the odds that eventually this game becomes completely abandoned and some intrepid modders fix everything out of the kindness of their hearts? I hear something almost like that sort of happened to MOO3.
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May 13, 2013 11:09
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Neruz posted:Your wish is my command: Mecron does not deserve the pixels used, but it's awsome nonetheless. 
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May 13, 2013 11:21
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The Sharmat posted:What are the odds that eventually this game becomes completely abandoned and some intrepid modders fix everything out of the kindness of their hearts? I hear something almost like that sort of happened to MOO3. This is assuming that the presence formally known as Mecron allows for it. Listen, and understand. Mecron is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you stop paying for shoddy products.
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May 13, 2013 11:45
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Neruz posted:Your wish is my command: This is so excellent.
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May 13, 2013 12:15
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MadJackMcJack posted:Actually, the AI was teching up pretty well, and I even started seeing AI dreads. Mainly because I went into the tech tree and removed two zeros from the end of all the research costs. gently caress spending 20 turns researching X-ray lasers! It seems cheaper research can go a long way to fixing the AI. Please don't try to trick me into playing this game again. The AI was still pretty braindead right?
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May 13, 2013 12:21
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