Kurieg posted:

You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry
When you use Indimidation to get your way you may use +Str to parley.

I'm Always Angry
Requires: You Wouldn't Like Me When I'm Angry
You can use "My willingness to leave" as leverage to parley.

_{I am not good at Dungeon World moves}

sentrygun posted:

It's actually a thing the Fighter has in the core book, but it's practically identical. Both trigger off of threats of violence, so they're more or less the same move.

quote:

Advanced Moves
Strong Constitution
When you challenge someone to a drinking contest, roll +Con. On a 10+, they reveal the truth behind a secret. On a 7-9 so do you!

Unstoppable
You're not going to be broken by something like mere mortal wounds. When the damage from an attack would ordinarily kill you, roll +Con. On a hit you stand back up, drenched in blood and at 1HP. On a 7-9 you only have a moment left to act before the exertion kills you.

You have failed me for the last time
No hireling will ever refuse an order. If you roll a 7-9 on order hireling, their serious demands will be limited to "let me live"

Maul
Conventional heavy armour is little protection from the strength of your blows. When you land an attack on thick armour, choose one:
* it caves, causing internal injuries
* it shatters, destroying that piece of armour

Massive
You ignore the two handed tag on ordinary weapons. Any large item you tear from the environment counts as a messy weapon.

Just a flesh wound
While you tell the tale behind a vicious scar, you can hold a non-hostile audience in rapture.

Bellow
When you roar or howl at someone nearby, roll +Con. On a hit, you gain their full attention. On a 10+, the force of your voice briefly stuns them.

Berserk
When you slice or whirl in a crowd, roll +Strength. On a 10+ your attacks carry through multiple enemies. On a 7-9 you lose control; the GM will choose an extra target nearby

sentrygun posted:

More importantly, why are enemies that you've forced back able to hit you? You're busting through a wall like the Kool-Aid man and sending them all on their asses, but they can hit you back?

Benly posted:

Also a good point, yeah. Maybe a 7-9 should also knock over or break something you'd rather not instead of leaving you open.

Golden Bee posted:

Not all enemies CAN be intimidated/use weapons, though!

madadric posted:

There's plenty of room for both types. The Giant is sort of a folk tale thing that's got a little magic, and the drawbacks of being big in a smallfolk world. The Behemoth feels more about being a big burly brawler throwing his (and everyone else's) weight around.

gnome7 posted:

Of course, I don't think that's a problem. The Brute should absolutely have access to the same move. It's fine if playbooks overlap on a couple of moves, just as long as it isn't all of the moves.

quote:

Intimidate
When you threaten someone with violence, roll +Str. On a 10+ they'll do as you ask. On a 7-9 they would, but you're not the biggest threat in the room...

RSIxidor posted:

How have you guys handled playing one-shots?

For instance, stuff that would come up in the end session move, could it occur earlier on to give a benefit?

For instance, if a bond were resolved in the middle of the session? Or if you defeat a notable monster at some point?

Just wondering how others have handled this.

RSIxidor posted:

How have you guys handled playing one-shots?

For instance, stuff that would come up in the end session move, could it occur earlier on to give a benefit?

For instance, if a bond were resolved in the middle of the session? Or if you defeat a notable monster at some point?

Just wondering how others have handled this.

The Supreme Court posted:

I love the idea, but I'm in two minds about the readiness mechanic. I get that it's meant to represent dwindling supplies/ increasing risk and it works well as this, but the problem with using it as both a cashable resource and as +rolls means that players are likely to be conservative in spending it to keep the bonus to rolling (especially as it's to Hack and Slash, the main offensive move in this game!). The reason a spending points system works with the Gladiator is because it's quickly spent and quickly replenished.

I'd separate readiness out; either have the Monster Hunter cash-in effects rely on it or use Tools of the Trade and Battle Ready based on a normal stat. I'd keep it for cashing in with Monster Hunter effects as that's thematically cool, works mechanically well as a move and is completely ripe for adding stuff to.

quote:

Tools of the Trade is good enough mechanically for several moves! Here's the current benefits:
* know the enemies weakness
* have the right weapon/ tool for it
* take +1 against them
* maximise damage roll
I'd be quite tempted to split this up into a couple of moves. Something like
Monster Knowledge
When you first meet an enemy monster you can ask what is this creature weak to? The GM will answer truthfully (or ask you to answer instead), but may ask you how you know this/ if you've ever encountered it before.
Tools of the Trade
You carry an arsenal of specialist monster-hunting tools – silver bolts, wooden stakes, lamp oil, highly specific poisons, and so on. When you rummage in your rucksack for the right weapon, roll 2d6+stat. On a 10+ you have exactly the right tool for the job. On a 7-9 you will have to improvise; describe your solution.

quote:

You've got really cool ideas, but a lot of the moves are pure mechanical bonuses, which I'm not really a fan of. For example:

Instead of removing the 7-9 result (which is often more fun), you could add:
When you roll 7-9 on parley, they insist you deal with a monster first/ the monster is really nasty/ they require some of your arsenal to fight the beast /they demand a grisly trophy of an equally dangerous animal as proof of your prowess.

quote:

Grisly Trophy is a great idea. I'd move it as one of the basic moves!
For advanced moves on this theme, you could have moves around fashioning weapons and armour from creature corpses? Grisly trophies could also be useful in moves involving reputation, intimidation, strange medicine ingredients.

RSIxidor posted:

Can anyone help me with this bit? It's for a compendium class based around icy abilities. Is this too strong for an extra class move from the CC? Does it work okay otherwise?

Wall of Ice (Cha)
When you summon a wall of ice, roll+Cha. The wall lasts long enough for you to get away or to prepare other defenses. *On a 10+, choose 2 fortifications from the following list. *On a 7-9, choose one fortification:
- The wall is tall enough that normal humans could not climb over it without tools.
- The wall is exceedingly cold, being near it for a duration or touching it at all will hurt.
- The wall cannot be broken with typical tools.
- The wall lasts twice as long as needed, allowing more time to escape or prepare defenses.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

For anyone interested, I've made a couple of edits to gnome's Improved Fighter which he agrees are a fairly good idea: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15337665/The%20Peerless%20Fighter.pdf

It's a host of minor changes:

BBLG is an advanced move, and Armor Mastery a starting one.

I'm Your Opponent got a cooler name, but I also stripped the trigger out of the first sentence - "your opponent is forced to acknowledge you" is something that should happen in the fiction, and making it a move is too 4E-ish.

Iron Hide/Steel Hide (the latter renamed to Diamond Skin) now give extra armour to your worn armour, specifically to allow those moves to increase Armor Mastery's effectiveness. As compensation, they now remove the weight from any armour you wear and any shield you wield respectively, freeing up ~4 Load for most Fighters.

Armored Perfection changes from +1 forward to deal your level in damage when you make your armour negate damage, because +1 forward is boring.

Evil Eye gets 3 hold on a 10+ instead of 2. Eye for Weaponry got a less awkward name. Superior Warrior has changed from "impress your enemy" to "your enemies" to make it make more sense (the guy you just stabbed does not need impressing, but being so good at stabbing him makes his buddies less likely to attack).

Starting gear has changed to give the Fighter scale armour and a shield to start with, again so that the Fighter can focus on Armor Mastery. As a result, the choose two section becomes choose one, with a choice between "I blew all my money on magic potions," "I am a serious adventurer with equipment and some spare cash" and "I am a travelling warrior who carries food, first aid and pipeleaf."

The idea behind the edit is to give the Fighter a clear role that isn't "the other class with the highest hit die and damage die." The Paladin has fancy divine stuff and the inquisitor angle, whereas the Fighter has their signature weapon, high armour and the means to make use of that armour in interesting ways.

The catch to this is that I'm wary the high armour + Armor Mastery might make things slightly too easy for the Fighter against mundane enemies. If anyone has a chance to take it out for a spin and lets me know, that would be appreciated.

Talkc posted:

Something along those lines would go a long way to making Armor Mastery a fun starting move. As it stands, its not fun, its not steeped in narrative, and honestly losing BBLG as a starter move for it neuters the fighter even more.

sentrygun posted:

This change also removes the Bow from Signature Weapon and removes the choice of Near range. Why?

sentrygun posted:

Iron Hide and Diamond Hide removing weight from your armor and shield seems kind of goofy, but more importantly they're giving you +2 and +4 armor if you have body armor and a shield, which is the default loadout. Either specify that it doesn't work on all sources of armor (you even state it removes weight from your shield in your changelog), or just remove that bit because it's weird and I thought it worked way better the old way.

sentrygun posted:

Frankly I don't get what you're going for with this. The Paladin and Fighter are plenty distinct as they are, and if removing Bend Bars and replacing it with Armor Mastery does anything it just makes them less distinct from each other. The Fighter's the brute who's really good at fighting and the Paladin is the defender of good who will stand in the way of harm for his allies. If you want to make them different, this is the complete opposite of what you should be doing.

Talkc posted:

This is not something i agree in. While i dont believe in everyone being a generalist, i do believe that people should be able to have a large variety of things their class and character can do.

The fighter needs a TON of work. I agree with this. But taking away the best move it has ( BBLG ) is not pushing it in any good direction.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Iron Hide makes armour you wear give you an additional +1 armour. A shield is not armour you wear, it is something you wield. This means leather/chain is 2 armour, scale is 3, plate is 4.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

The stock Fighter's shtick boils down to "good at hitting things, high HP," but the Paladin's shtick boils down to "good at hitting things, high HP, also gets a bunch of interesting divine options." The Paladin starts with higher armour and the ability to become immune to stuff via Quest, and can pick Bloody Aegis. The Paladin also gets to match the Fighter's damage-increasing moves one for one (except for Scent of Blood, but that is a terrible move).

Basically, other than liking the idea of the Fighter's Signature Weapon move or being of the opinion that people with swords should never be able to do anything a LARPer can't physically do, there's no reason to take a Fighter over a Paladin. The Paladin is more durable, does as much damage and gets a bunch of interesting options that let him do things other than be an HP sponge/hit monsters. While the Improved Fighter doesn't do much about that last element, the whole point is to fix the first two so that the Paladin isn't a better fighter than the Fighter.

Mikan posted:

Spending armor is in no way as interesting as Bend Bars Lift Gates. Pretty much everyone I've played Dungeon World with, or the folks I've introduced the game to, love Bend Bars Lift Gates and consider it an iconic part of the Fighter package.

sentrygun posted:

In your changenotes you talk about how it removes the weight from your shield as well, which is what had me confused. I assumed from that that your intent was for it to affect shields as well, as there's nothing that separates the weight removal from the armor granting in the text. If that's not the case it's fine, but it's still something you should clarify as there are, in fact, shields that you strap to your arm instead of holding them with your arm. Just state that your primary armor source, or in better words your 'body armor', gains the bonus.

sentrygun posted:

The Fighter should be the punchy guy, and if the Paladin's encroaching too far on that then that's more on the Paladin's fault. I really feel like the Paladin should have a d8 die at best and have Smite removed because they're weird things that suddenly make the Paladin about being a damage powerhouse instead of being the defender of good who works to protect and aid their allies. You're right that the Paladin seems to encroach a bit too much on the Fighter, but way to solve that isn't to make the Fighter encroach on the Paladin's thing.

Talkc posted:

When i first read Dungeon World, the very first move i latched onto was BBLG. Its in essence a move that is textbook "This is why DW is amazing".

Lemon Curdistan posted:

e; incidentally, before this spins off into 20+ posts of me responding to other posts again: you can pretend that my Improved Fighter variant is called the "Armsmaster Fighter" or something. It is a deliberate effort to build a Fighter who is defined by his gear and what he does with it, not by his ability to smash doors really well. The question I have isn't whether or not you think BBLG is core to the Fighter's identity, it's whether or not the Armsmaster Fighter is too good at taking damage.

Fenarisk posted:

sentrygun posted:

Muscle Mania is a strictly better H&S, or at least it is if you take the first 'On a hit' line. The two 'On a hit' lines conflict, and since a 7-9 is considered a hit you can choose to open yourself to their attack and take a benefit for free because you open yourself to attack anyways. I feel like a grapple-style move should be cool and manage to do crazy stuff without needing to include damage, kind of like the Initiate's Sublime Understanding.

quote:

Picking three on Snap Into It! is absolutely bonkers and is letting you do way too much with one success on a non-hold move. A 10+ should be good, but not "heal, temporarily ignore negatives against you, scare your enemies, and also make the party sandwiches" good.

quote:

Neither of the backgrounds grant a mechanical benefit. Ways you got where you are now are cool and all, but every other class in the game does that and gets something cool to do move-wise too.

Fenarisk posted:

Changed to:
When you grapple or pummel an enemy using your immense strength or bulk, roll +STR. On 10+ choose 3. ON a 7-9 choose 2.
*Deal your class damage
*Grapple the enemy fiercely, keeping them pinned or restrained
*Use your might to toss, flip, or knock the enemy down
*Prevent the enemy from attacking back

sentrygun posted:

This still allows you to beat out H&S outright by choosing deal damage and no retaliation on a 7-9. Looks like the PDF version put it at 2 and 1 though so that's better.

sentrygun posted:

Well, it depends on how long you're out and how capable you are of mending your armor. As a core move I feel like it should make it a lot more clear how long it takes and what it takes to fix your armor. It may be heavily fictional as you're not rolling checks to see if your Craft roll is high enough to beat a DC, but an Armsmaster will probably be fixing their armor a ton so it should be at least fairly well defined.

sentrygun posted:

but it seems like it does too much for a thing so central to the class.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

How so? Yeah, the idea is that it's core to the class and the Fighter should be able to use it all the time; it's pretty exciting to have the DM roll max damage on a big monster and just go "no, I take no damage from that." I'm not seeing how it does too much, though - it's a single move with a single effect. Or do you just mean it's too good?

Lemon Curdistan posted:

How so? Yeah, the idea is that it's core to the class and the Fighter should be able to use it all the time; it's pretty exciting to have the DM roll max damage on a big monster and just go "no, I take no damage from that." I'm not seeing how it does too much, though - it's a single move with a single effect. Or do you just mean it's too good?

Fenarisk posted:

Add me to the "too strong" bandwagon, at least in my opinion. I'd almost make it that if it's a shield it's broke and gone, or armor will take "a significant amount of time to repair by a skilled blacksmith". That way if the player uses it more often for little creatures who lower the AC you can say a day or so, if it takes the brunt of an ogre boss's pulverizing smash it could take multiple days. Plus you're limited by what the GM considers "skilled" given the fiction of what happened to the armor.

Fenarisk posted:

Oh man someone released a free brawler before I did. Some of the ideas are cool and similar, I'll see if I can get mine into final PDF form tonight.

quote:

Blessed Pox
When you pray to the dark gods to fill your body with fresh disease, name it and roll +Con. On a 10+ choose a boon and a symptom, 7-9 take a boon and two symptoms:
Boons: minor regeneration, lizard skin, permanent adrenaline, acid spit, bulging muscles
Symptoms: Weeping sores, hallucinations, blindness, spores, maggots

The Supreme Court posted:

Would you mind changing the name of yours back to brawler? I'd quite like to keep using Brute as a title and it'd avoid confusion, plus yours fits the crazy wrestler vibe much more.

Currently making a new weird class: the Afflicted (or something along those lines: pestilent, horseman, etc.), might end up folding it in to my freaky Witch Doctor. Main move:

Do the boons need specific mechanical uses? E.g. scaly skin: +1 armour? Thinking about making a tag system (like the weapons/ equipment tags) for diseases and potions etc, which would combine well with the witch doctor/ alchemist aspect.
Alternatively, I've been thinking about combining boons and symptoms. Something like spores (sprouting from the afflicted's back) could potentially be a freaky weapon.

I'd quite like the basis of the Afflicted to be this odd move about gaining new diseases with plenty of varied (and highly visible) symptoms, as I reckon the class could go quite cool directions: with moves based on
* using the diseases as weapons (potent toxins)
* infecting/ poisoning enemies with an in-body brewed cocktail of plagues
* hiding the awful symptoms while dealing with respectable people
* ignoring damage; this character is already a walking rotten corpse, a sword to the guts is only going to release more disease!