SplitSoul posted:I'd be interested in seeing how much House apologism and dumb Randroid libertarianism overlap. I'm a dumb Futurist who'll rant about the beauty of cities and technology at the drop of a hat, but I'm not a Randroid. Cities endure. Roman roads outlasted Roman civilization. Humanity's structures and works outlive humans, and are monuments to them. House is preserving that To quote a porn star writing in Vice, quote:When I look at Las Vegas, I see a concrete and flashing neon message to the universe that humanity won't settle for caves and foraging. Both the churches and casinos are decadent monuments in the desert saying we are so highly evolved that we can afford to devote large amounts of time to indulging ourselves or morally policing those who do. Our beliefs and the specifics of our rituals may differ, but at the end of the day, the instincts that drive us are very much alike. While House survives, while Vegas survives, something of that human spirit survives.
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May 12, 2013 14:38
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SplitSoul posted:I'd be interested in seeing how much House apologism and dumb Randroid libertarianism overlap. Me, I've always been suspicious of Legion apologies and latent psychopathy. Count Chocula posted:While House survives, while Vegas survives, something of that human spirit survives. I'd like to think that in the Wasteland, the human spirit endures more significantly in places where governance is practiced as a public matter, and not the private affair of a technocratic despot. House preserved a post card. It's rare and beautiful and I think it has a place in the post apocalyptic American west. But the longer it's run by a nutty, out-of-touch and ambivalent dictator, the further it deviates from human progress.
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May 12, 2013 15:04
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Thanqol posted:That has nothing to do with your arguments, which were: The Tsar has nothing to do with my arguments either. He's dead and never had to deal with a nuclear war. I also never said that morality doesn't matter, I said it's shaky. A society struggling to survive the repercussions of a nuclear war is likely to explore ways that are well beyond any kind of established ruleset. What the outcome of this might be is something we can't know for sure, we can merely guess.
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May 12, 2013 15:12
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Thanqol posted:I have a link to it in my bookmarks folder, it's that amazing. Is that supposed to be amazing because it's stupid? America is not beholden to lower class interests.
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May 12, 2013 15:20
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Police Automaton posted:In Fallout 1 the Brotherhood literally sends the player to his death just as a sort of joke. And when you come back from it they let you into the Bunker and give you all the information they have on the Super Mutants, as well as special weapons and armour. The Brotherhood just up and gives you some weapons and armour in 2 as well, by which I mean they leave them unattended in unlockable containers.
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May 12, 2013 16:20
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Is that supposed to be amazing because it's stupid? Yes 
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May 12, 2013 16:24
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There's a reason why  is an smilie. He's worse than Caesar, really.The thing about House is he's got his own sovereign nation, and so he's just trying to keep it working and stay alive when two expansionist powers start encroaching at the same time. Arguing that he has no right to New Vegas is more of an issue of preferring democracy over dictatorship than anything else. House has just as much "right" to New Vegas as Caesar has to his legion, and the only real claim the NCR can make is that they're just so great that their greatness justifies their conquest. It'd be like if America went and took away the Northern half of Mexico when it was still a monarchy. Oh wait. I mean, I can see where the discussion of rights would resemble Libertarian and Randian nonsense, but the key thing to remember is that this isn't a lonely individual trying to keep what's his out of the hands of the government, it's a match between sovereign nations, one of which just wants to conquer the other because it's in the way. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:06 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 16:48
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I think you've got the wrong link there.
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May 12, 2013 17:00
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Thanqol posted:That has nothing to do with your arguments, which were: Do you have any idea how much I'd like to play a spin-off series set in the former Soviet Union? Not like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Metro. A post-apocalyptic Future Russia, using their image of the future the way Fallout used the 50's idea of the future. MrL_JaKiri posted:You mean the city he saved, protects and runs? That city? That's not really a good claim to ownership. If I save your car from a group of vandals who killed you, does that mean I own it now? House's claim to legitimacy comes most from the fact that several major powers in the city (the Casinos) are happy with his rule, or at least not unhappy enough to want him out of the picture, until Caesar comes in and starts plotting with the Omertas. But even then, the only real challenges to his rule from within the city come from people fairly high up; the rank and file seem fairly content with the situation.
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May 12, 2013 17:15
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Speedball posted:
I'm sorry to interrupt the political debate, but this right here is cosplay done right. Dude really looks like he crawled straight out of the postapocalyptic Mojave.
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May 12, 2013 17:16
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Keeshhound posted:Go seek out the Brotherhood without Veronica and then tell me how much you want to be friends with them. I once did a playthrough where I went through Dead Money first then went to Hidden Valley without Veronica. That makes it the second collaring and based on what goes down in Dead Money, it doesn't make it much of a stretch for such a character to not even blink if one of the factions asks to wipe them out (if that character even waits that long).
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May 12, 2013 17:27
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In real life, I'd find someone like Mr. House to be greedy and highly unethical - his politics are very different to my own morals and beliefs. In the context of the Fallout world and New Vegas though, he's 100% the right choice. House isn't evil or spiteful like Moore or Caesar, everything he does, even the morally ambiguous stuff has a well thought out reason for it - remember, he didn't ruin his brother out of spite, but out did him after his brother cheated him. Blowing up the Brotherhood might seems cruel, but he explains it well - a group of violent, heavily armed fanatics running around isn't going to help anyone, and they're a danger to the citizens of Vegas. The ending slides only show the immediate outcome of the battle, not the long term outcome. House has dreamed big for everyone's sake, and it'll take time to get it all sorted out. And isn't murdering a helpless man and stealing his stuff so that you can rule a few casinos for a bit even more selfish? He's aggorant and needs the Courier to keep his human perspective, but the man really does love Vegas. René Auberjonois's voice acting really helps - his line "Vegas will be a shining beacon, leading mankind to the stars" is  He's a flawed character, but probably the most interesting in the game's story.
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May 12, 2013 17:48
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I love that it's been years and we're still doing this. That's a story.
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May 12, 2013 20:18
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OldMemes posted:House isn't evil or spiteful like Moore or Caesar, everything he does, even the morally ambiguous stuff has a well thought out reason for it EDIT: Okay, looked it up. Putting Primm - a town over which House has no jurisdiction and shows no interest in when it's overrun by bandits - in NCR control gets them the harshest taxes in the Mojave when House takes over. Convince The King not to have his street gang launch suicidal attacks at a superior army? House murders all of them. Nice guy. The Crotch fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 20:51
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Keeshhound posted:That's not really a good claim to ownership. If I save your car from a group of vandals who killed you, does that mean I own it now? House's claim to legitimacy comes most from the fact that several major powers in the city (the Casinos) are happy with his rule, or at least not unhappy enough to want him out of the picture, until Caesar comes in and starts plotting with the Omertas. But even then, the only real challenges to his rule from within the city come from people fairly high up; the rank and file seem fairly content with the situation. A car is a piece of property like a city is not. I think saving the city and its surroundings, clearing the area of raiders (let's be real here, those 'tribes' were psychotic murdering/stealing/kidnapping raiders), re-establishing some sort of system of government, and generally being capable of defending his claims, all qualify House as having a 'right' to rule there, at the very least as much as the NCR or Legion do. The de jure 'rulers' of the Mojave desert are dead, and they have been for hundreds of years by the time of New Vegas' events. No one has any better claim to the land than House does. The fact that most people living in Vegas seem to at worst be neutral to House and at best revere him as a techno-robot-god who protects them from the wastelands and is responsible for New Vegas in the first place is an added plus, governments only rule with the consent of the governed and so on. poo poo, the only reason Hoover Dam is still there to be fought over and Lake Meade has all that clean water in the first place is because of House. OldMemes posted:In the context of the Fallout world and New Vegas though, he's 100% the right choice. I just find his logic unassailable. I like the BoS, but he's right. They aren't the same chapter as the one in Fallout 3, these ones are violent techno-fetishists that don't really give a poo poo about the welfare of anyone else. He doesn't want you to wipe out the Boomers and they have arguably more firepower than the BoS. Caesar doesn't have a plan that I want to be a part of, and the NCR can only plan ahead as much as any democratic government can. House has calculations and poo poo, he's 10 moves ahead of everyone else. I mean he could be batshit or lying but he did have the foresight to save Vegas (as much as he could) and put a fuckoff giant robot army in an underground storage facility that could turn them all on with the right key 300 years later. He certainly doesn't seem to be off his rocker and actually has a pretty drat good grasp of events despite being immobile and relying on Securitrons for outside information. I don't necessarily like his style of rule (although to be honest a benevolent dictatorship situation with an AI at the reigns is a cool political idea to me), but he's also right in that he doesn't have any motivation to be a dick. He doesn't hate gays or ghouls or women, he just wants to make his city run well. \/\/\/ I agree... it's especially weird since if he wins and the NCR loses all it's influence in the area presumably he can just roll a Securitron over to the King and say 'Hey, the NCR is gone but you dudes better stay nonviolent and keep poo poo under control, understand?' Although maybe it's because he didn't feel comfortable having a faction so close that had previous ties with NCR and/or might work with enemies of his in the future (Primm just kind of gets boned though  ).e: on a side note I'm doing a play through with that robot race mod and it's fun working for House with a 'gently caress humans, robot supremacy' mentality. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 21:03
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The Crotch posted:Doesn't he completely gently caress over the Kings and the people of Primm if they have the audacity to be friendly towards the NCR? Like, absurdly disproportionate and punitive retribution for their "crimes"? You're right in that House is just being petty there. But that didn't fit with the impression I had of House's character from the rest of the game.
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May 12, 2013 21:07
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Moridin920 posted:A car is a piece of property like a city is not. I think saving the city and its surroundings, clearing the area of raiders (let's be real here, those 'tribes' were psychotic murdering/stealing/kidnapping raiders), re-establishing some sort of system of government, and generally being capable of defending his claims, all qualify House as having a 'right' to rule there, at the very least as much as the NCR or Legion do. I'm not saying his claim is illegitimate, I'm saying it's legitimate because the ruled accept it, not because of his protecting them. If you're going to say that him protecting Vegas is what secures his right to rule, then his allowing the NCR to fight the Legion for him means that they are now the legitimate rulers because it is they who are protecting the city, not him. It means that if they helped Goodsprings fight off the Powder Gangers, the Courier is now the ruler of Goodsprings. It would mean that by preventing Ulysses' attempt to nuke the Long 15 and Dry Wells, the Courier now owns those trade routes. House is a legitimate ruler because his constituents (the inhabitants of New Vegas, not Freeside) accept and even prefer life under his rule to life under anyone else. In fact, that makes his claim even more legitimate than NCR or Legion. Raygereio posted:I always felt those ending slides were a bit weird. Then you weren't paying attention. House sees people as objects; when they don't do what he wants, they need to be either discarded, or disciplined until their behavior pleases him.
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May 12, 2013 21:13
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Keeshhound posted:I'm not saying his claim is illegitimate, I'm saying it's legitimate because the ruled accept it, not because of his protecting them. If you're going to say that him protecting Vegas is what secures his right to rule, then his allowing the NCR to fight the Legion for him means that they are now the legitimate rulers because it is they who are protecting the city, not him. It means that if they helped Goodsprings fight off the Powder Gangers, the Courier is now the ruler of Goodsprings. It would mean that by preventing Ulysses' attempt to nuke the Long 15 and Dry Wells, the Courier now owns those trade routes. It depends on point of view. I, of course, agree with you, but if I were in 2300 Fallout world I might have the more medieval mentality of 'the ability to take and hold a piece of land means it's yours.' House allows the NCR to fight the Legion, and is very understandably worried about them turning around and saying 'well, this is ours now.' That's pretty much what he says when you ask him 'why are you worried about NCR?' If the courier helps Goodsprings, puts a wall around it, and shoots any Securitron, NCR troop, or Legionnaire that comes knocking, then yeah, she is the de facto ruler of Goodsprings. Same thing with the Long 15 and Dry Wells. Basically, it's not about just fighting off whoever is the threat, it's also about holding the place and having the manpower to meaningfully control the borders. According to 21st century political theory and morality, yes House is the legitimate ruler because the people that live there accept/want it. According to medieval/post-apocalyptic morality and politics, the consent of the governed doesn't really matter and you could make an argument that he is the legitimate ruler by right of conquest (and if anyone knocks him off the hill, then they're now the legit ruler). That's how it worked for a long time. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 21:20
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Keeshhound posted:Then you weren't paying attention. House sees people as objects; when they don't do what he wants, they need to be either discarded, or disciplined until their behavior pleases him.
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May 12, 2013 21:21
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Raygereio posted:The thing that didn't fit with me is that in those ending slides House is being petty and cruel for no real reason (at least none that I could spot). Imagine House sending a securitron to negotiate with them. He points out that he's in a position of overwhelming power, and it would be in their best interest to let him run the place. In House's mind it ought to already be a done deal. But of course, the Kings probably tell him to go gently caress himself in the most pugnacious posturing way imaginable. House sees two things- these people are irrational, and these people don't respect him (he probably has a pragmatic excuse for caring about respect, but the truth is it galls him when people don't appreciate what he stands for). The Kings are more trouble than they're worth in his mind. As long as they exist they'll keep causing trouble for him, and there's no getting through to them other than brute force. Of course, even brute force doesn't really get through to them, and they oppose him to the last man. The end, House has killed a bunch of good people. Imagine House taking this mentality towards... unionizers in his precious factories, or dissidents who object to any aspect of his rule. Edit: Incidentally, I feel the same about the Kings as I do about Caesar's Legion- they seemed kind of silly at first, like an obvious joke (and they kind of are), but underneath that hilarious style, they're a real group of people, with plausible motives and viewpoints that are independent from their joke aesthetic. Eiba fucked around with this message at 21:57 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 21:55
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New Vegas, the location in FONV, is an anachronism anyway. I really don't see the inherent value in preserving it for the sake of itself, like the way House is glorifying it. From a technology perspective, is there really that much there that doesn't exist in vaults spread all over the country? And New Vegas sucks for most residents anyway, most live out in the ruined outskirts as essentially farmer serfs with intermittent brownouts and water problems, under constant threat by drugged out raiders. It's all well and good House dazzles the Courier with this grand vision of the future but The Strip, his claim of human civilization and culture, is a militarized zone only accessible to the elite of the wastes. He doesn't make credible claims in regards to his vision given the current circumstances.
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May 12, 2013 22:11
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Moridin920 posted:According to 21st century political theory and morality, yes House is the legitimate ruler because the people that live there accept/want it. According to medieval/post-apocalyptic morality and politics, the consent of the governed doesn't really matter and you could make an argument that he is the legitimate ruler by right of conquest (and if anyone knocks him off the hill, then they're now the legit ruler). That's how it worked for a long time. What I'm trying to say is that while people in the Mojave might think that legitimacy comes from power, it still ultimately comes from the consent of the governed. The only faction with enough power to really seize control of New Vegas from House is Caesar; if the NCR tried it there would almost certainly be violent resistance (courtesy of the Kings, if nothing else). Part of what worries House is that if NCR secures the dam, beats back the Legion and starts bringing food to the people, they could sell themselves as better rulers of New Vegas and then he's out on his ear. It's not going to happen, because Moore and Kimball have diplomatic ability that rivals a drunken mirelurk, but the possibility is still there, and he wants to prevent it from happening. It's a major part of why he needs his securitron army up and running; they're powerful, but not enough to truly stop a popular uprising, especially if the NCR gets involved. But because they are such a powerful force, able to shred their way through the battle of Hoover Dam, he can claim that he/The Mojave threw out both the Legion and NCR, justifying their sovereignty. Power is important in Mojave politics, but House needs to be accepted as ruler by his people to truly stabilize his rule.
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May 12, 2013 22:22
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Eiba posted:Remember how the Kings were treating NCR immigrants? The threat of NCR's army didn't make them think twice, they're the Kings, and they're going to protect the people of Freeside, and bend their knee to no one. No matter how powerful and intimidating they are. In fact, the more intimidating and powerful, the more they'll spitefully thumb their nose, I imagine. How bothered about the Kings could House really be? He didn't deal with them prior to the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, despite being right on his doorstep the whole time. Nor does he deal with them if they continue to harass the NCR. The only time he comes down on them is if they refuse to be the enemy of his enemy. It's just vindictiveness and a petty desire to make examples of others who he feels wronged him in some small way.
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May 12, 2013 22:39
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Eiba posted:Remember how the Kings were treating NCR immigrants? The threat of NCR's army didn't make them think twice, they're the Kings, and they're going to protect the people of Freeside, and bend their knee to no one. No matter how powerful and intimidating they are. In fact, the more intimidating and powerful, the more they'll spitefully thumb their nose, I imagine. quote:Accusing The Kings of lying with a foreign invader for their newfound ties to the NCR, Mr. House punished them by ordering their forced removal. The Kings, defiant to the end, were destroyed to the last man by House's Securitrons. There's just no real reason for House to get rid of the Kings. They're even usefull to House as they keep Freeside from blowing up into complete anarchy. Removing the Kings would mean he'd have to spend resources himself to keep Freeside under control. And if the Kings end up hostile to the NCR we get this: quote:During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone. As for Primm: quote:Despite NCR's pledge to support Primm, they abandon the town after their loss to Mr. House. As repayment for their NCR loyalty, Mr. House sends Securitrons to Primm to "protect" it and collect heavy taxes from its citizens. I stand by what I said: those two slides just don't really fit with House's characterization from the rest of the game to me. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 00:02 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 23:51
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This thread is at it's best with Housechat  SplitSoul posted:I'd be interested in seeing how much House apologism and dumb Randroid libertarianism overlap. As probably the most prominent House apologist in this thread and someone who vehemently disagrees with any of Rand's bullshit, I can say eh, not so much. There are obvious similarities between House and, say, John Galt(or any Rand protagonist, they're all the same). Brilliant, ruthless captains of industry that wish everyone would gently caress off and leave them alone. The setting makes a big difference though; the 'self-made' men in Rand's novels (and the libertarians they inspire) just happen to think that things like taxes and welfare are thievery, whereas House really did build his own business empire, save Vegas from nuclear destruction, unite the tribes and (should the courier choose his path) fend off two invading armies. The difference is libertarians think that not only are the super-rich the real life Dagny Taggarts and John Galts of the world, but they are too, by virtue of just being so much more brilliant and reasonable than all the takers out there. I don't actually believe techno-wizard geniuses like House and Tony Stark exist because I'm not a literal child. Besides, libertarians wouldn't choose the House ending, they would go the Yes Man route, because clearly they're the only ones capable of making the right decisions Yasser Arafatwa posted:New Vegas, the location in FONV, is an anachronism anyway. I really don't see the inherent value in preserving it for the sake of itself, like the way House is glorifying it. From a technology perspective, is there really that much there that doesn't exist in vaults spread all over the country? And New Vegas sucks for most residents anyway, most live out in the ruined outskirts as essentially farmer serfs with intermittent brownouts and water problems, under constant threat by drugged out raiders. It's all well and good House dazzles the Courier with this grand vision of the future but The Strip, his claim of human civilization and culture, is a militarized zone only accessible to the elite of the wastes. He doesn't make credible claims in regards to his vision given the current circumstances. I think that's more a question of resources, though. The Strip is a tiny part of the city itself because he needed an area that could be managed with three-hundred securitrons and the Three Families, it's outright stated that he has plans for expansion after activating his 5,000-strong army and wrestling control of the Hoover Dam away from the NCR. The NCR's constant gently caress-ups across the Mojave are the perfect example of why you don't stretch yourself too thin. Keeshhound posted:Part of what worries House is that if NCR secures the dam, beats back the Legion and starts bringing food to the people, they could sell themselves as better rulers of New Vegas and then he's out on his ear. Actually I think the whole 'they are going to murder him at the first possible opportunity' would be more worrying, regardless of the will of the general public? Forget the fact that he believes in his plan, that comes second to the fact that it's the only possibility for his survival.
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May 13, 2013 01:00
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Wolfsheim posted:That's the thing, though: House recognizes this, and immediately recruits the courier into his plan. He basically hands you the Lucky 38 suite and encourages the courier to have at it, he never lies to or messes with the courier, you have to betray him. And really, any courier who doesn't realize what a sweet deal House is offering and chooses to kill him is a bit of a pissant Maybe the Courier wants what's best for the Mojave rather than tons of material possessions  Regarding House's "plans"--I wouldn't trust a drat thing he says seeing as he always has some sort of ulterior motive to everything he does. For example, he makes like he's totally on the NCR's side through this whole Hoover Dam ordeal and that he's not just going to stab them in the back and exploit the everloving gently caress out of them after the NCR finishes doing all his dirty work, so it's kinda hard for me to agree with the "House is doing the NCR a favor" crowd, and I certainly don't give a poo poo about the "but the NCR wants to kill the poor creepy billionaire!  " sentiment.
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May 13, 2013 02:05
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House is interesting and all, but IMO: -He's not nearly as forward-looking as he is sometimes made out to be. The casino families were directly crafted by Mr. House in the image of pre-war Vegas factions, and most of Mr. House's ideas seem to date from that time as well. -His attitude of strategic indifference toward the larger Mojave may prevent some of the NCR's heavy-handed mistakes, but it also isn't the ideal attitude toward a monster and raider infested wasteland in terms of general quality of life. Colonel Hsu notes that despite his distrust of the New Vegas falderal, he does have to protect the place; House is absent of such qualms (note Freeside.) -There is no way a two-hundred-year-old brain husk sealed underneath the earth is going to be a fully responsive agent for things outside of his plans. The electronic network is great, but I have doubts about Mr. House's ability to consistently respond to new ideas or unwanted changes in the Mojave situation, even if he is a mastermind. -Gambling isn't a very productive activity. You pay your money, and are obliged nothing in return. Yet this is Mr. House's entire revenue stream, and it depends on the NCR having enough caps to blow on a trip to Vegas to work.
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May 13, 2013 02:37
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Sheen Sheen posted:Maybe the Courier wants what's best for the Mojave rather than tons of material possessions So, House is a scumbag because he's working against the NCR, but the NCR working against House is fair game because he's creepy and rich?
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May 13, 2013 03:36
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Utgardaloki posted:So, House is a scumbag because he's working against the NCR, but the NCR working against House is fair game because he's creepy and rich? House is a scumbag for hundreds of reasons that have been discussed in this thread ad nauseam. And those reasons, plus the reasons why the NCR winning is a net positive, is why the NCR working against House is fair game.
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May 13, 2013 04:37
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Wolfsheim posted:This thread is at it's best with Housechat In defense of objectivists, while they might consider pre-war House a Randian hero, post-war House has set himself up as a despot. With a Securitron army completely obedient to the will of their leader, and ignoring the populace. Who has complete monopoly over all the industries in his territory. All in the name of the public good. That's pretty much about as far from what objectivists and libertarians believe in as one could possibly get. For all the NCR's faults, there is still a certain amount of checks and balances in place to force the politicians to try to keep the population happy. Even dictators like Kim Jong Un and Robert Mugabe have to keep their armies happy, or else worry about a coup, House doesn't even really that fig leaf, he just has to keep enough recharge stations around to kill any dissenters from his reign. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 08:10 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 04:55
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:New Vegas, the location in FONV, is an anachronism anyway. I really don't see the inherent value in preserving it for the sake of itself, like the way House is glorifying it.
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May 13, 2013 05:06
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side_burned posted:For some reason I wondered what house thought of New York City and how reacted to the people that liked NYC better than Vegas. How about Fallout: Atlantic City? It would be like New Vegas only everything would be cheaper and lower quality.
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May 13, 2013 05:10
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side_burned posted:For some reason I wondered what house thought of New York City and how reacted to the people that liked NYC better than Vegas. I suspect he dismissed their opinions with all the smug self-satisfaction that only he could muster. Wolfsheim posted:Actually I think the whole 'they are going to murder him at the first possible opportunity' would be more worrying, regardless of the will of the general public? Forget the fact that he believes in his plan, that comes second to the fact that it's the only possibility for his survival. Does he even know about that plan? He doesn't really strike me as the type who'd keep that to himself in conversations with the Courier; it seems like he'd want to drone on about how pathetic he found their insipid assassination plots to be.
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May 13, 2013 05:18
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Caufman posted:Me, I've always been suspicious of Legion apologies and latent psychopathy. I think we can all agree, that whatever ending a person prefers is a shameful window into the loathsome psychology of something more monster than man
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May 13, 2013 05:26
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StandardVC10 posted:-There is no way a two-hundred-year-old brain husk sealed underneath the earth is going to be a fully responsive agent for things outside of his plans. The electronic network is great, but I have doubts about Mr. House's ability to consistently respond to new ideas or unwanted changes in the Mojave situation, even if he is a mastermind. I dunno, after coming out of his coma he seemed to respond pretty rapidly when he saw the first NCR rangers scouting around; he set up the Three Families, renovated the Strip and had everything ready when they arrived in less than a decade. If anything, I'd say he's a lot more adaptable than the slow, lumbering NCR bureaucracy. quote:-Gambling isn't a very productive activity. You pay your money, and are obliged nothing in return. Yet this is Mr. House's entire revenue stream, and it depends on the NCR having enough caps to blow on a trip to Vegas to work. Eh, I had the feeling this was somewhat temporary until the securitron army was up and running. He even kind of vaguely mentions the gambling to be a means to an end but nowhere close to his endgame. I don't think he gets into his long-term goals more than that though, so a lot of it is speculation (though not nearly as much as Yes Man and the Legion endings, so eh). Sheen Sheen posted:House is a scumbag for hundreds of reasons that have been discussed in this thread ad nauseam. And those reasons, plus the reasons why the NCR winning is a net positive, is why the NCR working against House is fair game. I guess I missed these hundreds of reasons, but the two truly objectionable things that spring to mind are the possible endings where House murders the Kings, and taxes the poo poo out of Primm. Ironically, these are pretty close to two of the more 'default' NCR endings unless the courier intervenes. It's actually kind of interesting, if you just follow the NCR's orders for most of the game the ending is pretty dark; Kings at war or dead, Followers forced out, Khans literally put on a reservation. You have to essentially ignore everything Moore says to actually receive a good NCR ending, with House you just follow his orders and most of it works out. Keeshhound posted:I suspect he dismissed their opinions with all the smug self-satisfaction that only he could muster. I mean, this is just a given  quote:Does he even know about that plan? He doesn't really strike me as the type who'd keep that to himself in conversations with the Courier; it seems like he'd want to drone on about how pathetic he found their insipid assassination plots to be. He does, I believe it happens in the courier's first or second conversation with House when the courier can asks "You would go to war with the NCR?" and he responds with something like "The more prudent issue is that they would go to war with me, and only haven't done so thus far due to the impending Legion threat." Caufman posted:Me, I've always been suspicious of Legion apologies and latent psychopathy. Truly, the most moral ending for New Vegas is institutionalized rape camps and here's why:
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May 13, 2013 05:40
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Wolfsheim posted:He does, I believe it happens in the courier's first or second conversation with House when the courier can asks "You would go to war with the NCR?" and he responds with something like "The more prudent issue is that they would go to war with me, and only haven't done so thus far due to the impending Legion threat." I see what you meant now; I thought you were referring specifically to the assassination plot. I actually was referring to this when I said he needed to appear legitimate. House knows that NCR wants New Vegas, and while the Securitrons ensure that they can't attack him directly, he needs to make a decisive play at the dam that will stick in people's minds to make sure that NCR won't find many people willing to work with them to overthrow him either. If he just let NCR and Legion slug it out and then mopped up afterwards, he'd look like a weak opportunist, and there would probably be several people who think they could take over and do a better job if they just had the manpower (he's already had Benny and the Omertas start plotting under his nose). Cue an NCR-backed, popular uprising, and even though House probably figures he could put them down easily, dealing with a bunch of usurpers would waste time and resources. By ending the battle decisively, and on his terms, he presents himself as an unassailable superman, and solidifies his position. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 15:25 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 05:59
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My ending, was a Yes Man ending, and only because it means I can set up a system completely without corruption. I tell Yes Man what my idea of right and wrong is, what the crimes are, how decisions will be made, and then I leave. The Casinos pay their taxes which are used to get resources, all of the Mojave becomes under Yes Man rule, and people are treated with respect. The taxes of the rich are given as stipends to the poor. Everything is set up, after that I tell Yes Man to ignore any further instructions and I leave. Also, I wipe out the Brotherhood. gently caress'em.
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May 13, 2013 06:12
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Wolfsheim posted:I guess I missed these hundreds of reasons Obviously. Wolfsheim posted:It's actually kind of interesting, if you just follow the NCR's orders for most of the game the ending is pretty dark; Kings at war or dead, Followers forced out, Khans literally put on a reservation. You have to essentially ignore everything Moore says to actually receive a good NCR ending, with House you just follow his orders and most of it works out. If you consider "Robo-dictatorship run by a completely unaccountable deranged hermit who has cut himself off from humanity for several hundred years rather than a flawed-but-well-meaning democracy whose problems you can fix" to be "working out," then I guess you're right or whatever. I also think it's funny that House apologists keep mentioning Moore as the single most important reason why the NCR is bad, when in the end all she amounts to is a powerless mid-level bureaucrat who throws temper tantrums while more capable people get things done (also gently caress the Khans who are nothing more than Raider Scum).
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May 13, 2013 06:31
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Sheen Sheen posted:(also gently caress the Khans who are nothing more than Raider Scum). The same goes for the well dressed families, who are mobster scum.
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May 13, 2013 08:54
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I don't think the NCR is bad, but I do think getting humbled in the Mojave is the best outcome for them. Aside from my technophilia, part of the reason I support House is I'm for an independent New Vegas, but Yes Man never felt like anything but a failsafe - a way to complete the game if you piss off/kill everybody, or maybe worse, a way to imagine a Everything Perfect Forever ending.
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May 13, 2013 09:22
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