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Contra Calculus posted:You know, it's funny because during the course of the series, all Jaime does is get his rear end kicked repeatedly. Yet we're always told he's 'like the best fighter ever!' Or he was or some poo poo. I don't know. His arc resonates with show watchers for the same reason it does with book readers: redemption is a powerful theme almost anybody can relate to. When you figure out in book/season 2 that he isn't quite what he seems, he becomes fascinating in the same way Sandor or Bronn is - a bad (or call it roughly pragmatic) guy clearly at odds with the values of characters like Ned and Stannis, but who may be on to something - who is then humbled by a series of events and tries to become a better man. He stands up for himself well enough, keeping up with Brienne despite being bound and having been imprisoned for a year, but his story isn't about his skill in battle - it's about the less tangible qualities, the ones that make a true knight, and our watching a character grow into (and rediscover) those values. He still idolizes Arthur Dayne and Barristan Selmy, but not for their skill with a sword, and it doesn't really matter anymore that Loras has replaced him in the tournament field and Gregor (or Frankengregor) is Cersei's champion. Also it seems like a LOT of people are the "best swordsman" or an "awesome swordsman" in the books to such an extent that except when they directly fight each other, it's hard to tell what would happen. The Cleganes are monstrously powerful, Ned's renowned with that greatsword, Robert in his prime was a legend, Bronn's beaten pretty much everybody he's fought, Loras wins every tournament even if he's green to real combat, Jon demonstrates masterful skill for a teenager, Barristan Selmy's still got it at his age, Khal Drogo could basically only be killed by disease, even Syrio Forel beats the poo poo out of a bunch of Lannister men without real arms or armor. There's been no shortage of incredible warriors in the series, to such an extent that trying to quantify which of them is better almost becomes meaningless. At some point it stops even being a meaningful descriptor. And for the most part, the major characters have barely even fought each other so far. Baku fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 10:25
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For all we know, Ned is ungodly with Ice and killed Dayne, Hightower and Whent. I really hope we see what happened at the Tower of Joy one day.
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Jun 4, 2013 10:45
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Aurain posted:For all we know, Ned is ungodly with Ice and killed Dayne, Hightower and Whent. Pretty sure Howland was warging all over the place in that battle.
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Jun 4, 2013 10:55
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I just realized that if they play to the books when they marry Margery to Tommen it's going to be pretty creepy on TV to have her whispering sweet nothings in his ear to break Cersi's hold over him. The actor might be 13 at the oldest. Truly GRRM would be delighted.
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Jun 4, 2013 10:55
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The Mutato posted:Pretty sure Howland was warging all over the place in that battle. I see people saying this a lot, but where is it even said that Reed is a Warg at all, let alone powerful enough to use it in a sword fight.
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Jun 4, 2013 11:31
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I don't have any solid reason to believe this is the case, but I reckon that the Kingsguard and Stark followers beside Reed probably sacrificed themselves for the sake of Rhaegar's baby and entrusted Jon to Ned's care at Lyanna + Rhaegar's (maybe as a message left with Lyanna) request. I'd also like to think conversely Howland and Ned are just stone cold mother fuckers and ended up beating the three best knights in the kingdom though.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:06
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I always thought of it as "even 7 battle hardened northerners, fresh from campaign could only barely beat these 3 hard core mother fuckers".
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Jun 4, 2013 12:20
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Aurain posted:I'd also like to think conversely Howland and Ned are just stone cold mother fuckers and ended up beating the three best knights in the kingdom though. There's also the five or six other dudes who went with Howland and Ned that didn't survive.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:20
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Howland and the Crannogmen are known for using poisoned weapons, I don't really know why Howland had to Warg into people rather than just poison the poo poo out of them.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:23
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I just visited The GRRM's website for the first time in forever to see if he had an indignant post about finishing WoW whenever he gets around to it. When did he pull his site design out of the late '90s? My mind is blown.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:34
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I don't have the books in front of me, but didn't it say that Arthur Dayne was, like, way better than everyone else in that era? I've thought before on who the "best fighter" really is in the books, but I could never come up with anything conclusive, except that I thought Dayne was supposedly the greatest of them all. I could have read it wrong.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:20
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It took 7 dudes + Ned to take down Dayne. 6 died. Ned in his fat forties held his own against the (AGOT) best Jaime. Jaime and Brienne can wreck Loras, the current (ASOS/AFFC) "best." Barristan is the wild card because Ned and Jaime fear him, but Barristan was in awe of Dayne. So the best sword of recent history was Dayne, and, among the still living in Westeros, is Brienne.  I'm going to wedgie myself off a tall bridge now.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:44
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Don't forget Hot Pie. Son of a bitch is a god with a pastry knife.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:55
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factorialite posted:I don't have the books in front of me, but didn't it say that Arthur Dayne was, like, way better than everyone else in that era? I think a lot of what is supposed to be "the best" is coloured by the POV character's perceptions. Jaime thinks Dayne is the best because he knighted him in the middle of a battle against some hardcore bandits. It's like, there is no hard and fast power level ratings or whatever, but just people that distinguished themselves in prominent ways.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:56
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ASOIAF needs power levels and scouters.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:07
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:No worries. The fan girls still have Dinklage, and if they thought Robb was cute, wait til we get whichever smoldering Latin sex pots they cast for Oberyn and My Darkstar~ 
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Jun 4, 2013 14:16
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Catelyn Stark beat Brienne. The Freys beat Catelyn. Wyman Manderly is the greatest swordsman in the land.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:24
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Aurain posted:ASOIAF needs power levels and scouters. I would love dearly for Peter Dinklage to play Emperor Pilaf.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:33
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quote:DeepQantas wrote on Jun 4, 2013 03:52: Angry hate PM from an illiterate, because I dared to mention that unmentioned "things" were left out of the FIRST SEASON that would have been nice to see on screen. Hatred for the worst posters skyrocketing.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:34
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"Fog Tripper, please indulge my childish desire to pretend that the adaptation is actually original television and that the books are not actually real because you're all in on an elaborate ruse to discuss imaginary novels by discussing discarded elements of those fake novels solely to ruin the most important thing of my life, HBO's Game of Thrones. Also, you're stupid. Thank you."
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Jun 4, 2013 14:53
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factorialite posted:I don't have the books in front of me, but didn't it say that Arthur Dayne was, like, way better than everyone else in that era? Yeah Dayne is alone at first tier. Jaime, Syrio, Khal Drogo, Belwas and Barristan are second tier. 3rd tier is Ned, Brienne, Loras, Bronn, Lyn Corbray, Sandor, Gregor, Oberyn, Victarion(damage multiplier at sea bumps to 2nd tier)...basically every other badass in the books. 4th tier is anyone else holding a sword. 5th tier is Darkstar and Daaario.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:37
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Sandor and Bronn are clearly second tier. Unless you are going on style. 
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Jun 4, 2013 15:52
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What exactly makes Syrio better than people we know are exceptionally skilled fighters like Oberyn, Brienne, Loras, Bronn and the rest of your third tier when he got murdered by Meryn Trant, the least memorable of the Kingsguard? Yeah, he dealt with a bunch of Lannister guardsmen with a wooden sword, but his skill with that sword did nothing to stop Trant from splattering him.
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Jun 4, 2013 15:55
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He knows a cat when he sees one.
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Jun 4, 2013 16:00
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More reaction news, in Norwegian news: http://p3.no/filmpolitiet/2013/06/gently caress-you-hbo/
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Jun 4, 2013 16:04
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Aurain posted:What exactly makes Syrio better than people we know are exceptionally skilled fighters like Oberyn, Brienne, Loras, Bronn and the rest of your third tier when he got murdered by Meryn Trant, the least memorable of the Kingsguard? Show me the body.
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Jun 4, 2013 16:28
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uhhh as a professional show watcher i can tell you conclusively that syrio actually warged into trant and will kill joffery when joffery tries to execute arya and then he and arya will get married and live happily ever after because i am literally incapable of pattern recognition
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Jun 4, 2013 16:33
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Fog Tripper posted:Sandor and Bronn are clearly second tier. Unless you are going on style. OK Sandor in certain situations (vs Beric or Gregor) puts him into rage mode that would be equivalent to 2nd or maybe even first tier. But in everyday 1 vs 1 ability, he isn't a match for Jaime, that's stated in the books. Show Bronn could be 2nd tier, book Bronn is 3rd. Aurain posted:What exactly makes Syrio better than people we know are exceptionally skilled fighters like Oberyn, Brienne, Loras, Bronn and the rest of your third tier when he got murdered by Meryn Trant, the least memorable of the Kingsguard? Because any of the characters you mentioned would have fared much more poorly in that situation, even with real arms and armor. 
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Jun 4, 2013 16:41
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1stGear posted:uhhh as a professional show watcher i can tell you conclusively that syrio actually warged into trant and will kill joffery when joffery tries to execute arya and then he and arya will get married and live happily ever after because i am literally incapable of pattern recognition I call bullshit, you spelled too many names correctly. Fuckin' book reader. *spits* *whines* *spergs*
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Jun 4, 2013 16:46
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1stGear posted:uhhh as a professional show watcher i can tell you conclusively that syrio actually warged into trant and will kill joffery when joffery tries to execute arya and then he and arya will get married and live happily ever after because i am literally incapable of pattern recognition Is flat out telling people Syrio is confirmed dead by GRRM himself the kind of thing that sends them into a frothing rage at *spoilers* because the amount of "no guys jaqen is syrio here's proof" online is staggering. Now the whole "Jon Snow's real parents" thing has started amongst them and they are circle-jerking each others "amazing deductions" when that debate was ended by ADWD.
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Jun 4, 2013 17:02
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Fog Tripper posted:Sandor and Bronn are clearly second tier. Unless you are going on style. May as well be goony sperg about it now: God tier: Hodor and 1st tier: Arthur Dayne, Barristan, and Syrio 2nd tier: Jaime before losing his hand, Brienne, Victarion, Ned, Stannis, Drogo, Victarion, Bronn, Sandor, Oberyn, Gregor... Possibly Robb and/or Osha? [citation needed] 3rd tier: Jon, Asha, Arya, Loras, Kettlblacks, Grey Worm, Jorah, Meera, Ygritte, Sam, Ramsay 4th tier: Jaime after losing his hand 5th tier: everyone else I'm going to be programming the ASOIAF fighting game so this is the canon and definitive list. 
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Jun 4, 2013 17:04
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The best swordfighter in the thing is Kyle. Yeah, there's a reason you don't know who he is. No one survives to tell of his prowess 
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Jun 4, 2013 17:11
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pentyne posted:Is flat out telling people Syrio is confirmed dead by GRRM himself the kind of thing that sends them into a frothing rage at *spoilers* because the amount of "no guys jaqen is syrio here's proof" online is staggering.  THAT'S NOT IN THE SHOW IT IS OUTSIDE INFO gently caress YOU SPOILERS BOOKREADERS
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Jun 4, 2013 17:22
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pentyne posted:Is flat out telling people Syrio is confirmed dead by GRRM himself the kind of thing that sends them into a frothing rage at *spoilers* because the amount of "no guys jaqen is syrio here's proof" online is staggering. So much confusion from this post - did GRRM actually confirm that Syrio is dead? I assumed as much but never saw anything. And since when is Jon Snow's parentage settled in ADWD?
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Jun 4, 2013 17:24
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pentyne posted:Is flat out telling people Syrio is confirmed dead by GRRM himself the kind of thing that sends them into a frothing rage at *spoilers* because the amount of "no guys jaqen is syrio here's proof" online is staggering. I still don't believe they organically started discussing Jon's parentage. That's a lead on from a book reader trying to sneak in stuff. It annoys me that ~*~book reader's~*~ hide in those discussions and people don't know (or don't hate on them) because they don't have Wild Cards! Also, Rarity pretending he doesn't know what's coming in the show. latinotwink1997 fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 17:25
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I Own Soulz posted:I still don't believe they organically started discussing Jon's parentage. That's a lead on from a book reader trying to sneak in stuff. It annoys me that ~*~book reader's~*~ hide in those discussions and people don't know (or don't hate on them) because they don't have Wild Cards! Also, Rarity pretending he doesn't know what's coming in the show. It's easy enough for non-shitlords to talk about the show entirely from the show perspective. The problem is that you have to not be a broken shell capable of only mindless GURM rage.
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Jun 4, 2013 17:34
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I can talk about the show from the show perspective. "Man, there's a whole lot of loving going on for no reason. Welp, guess I'll pull out my dick or something. Oh, now everyone's dead and Kalisi still hasn't done gently caress-all, great." I love how show-only people seem to have no idea what Dany's name is 
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Jun 4, 2013 17:46
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pentyne posted:Is flat out telling people Syrio is confirmed dead by GRRM himself the kind of thing that sends them into a frothing rage at *spoilers* because the amount of "no guys jaqen is syrio here's proof" online is staggering. OB1Kenobi told Luke that his father was killed too. pentyne posted:
It was?
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Jun 4, 2013 17:55
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And he was right. From a certain point of view. (The point of view of a man who left his friend to die with no limbs in a volcano.)
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Jun 4, 2013 17:56
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The best swordfighter in the thing is Kyle. He's actually Tommen, who is actually a faceless man.
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Jun 4, 2013 17:58
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