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It's an entirely new game with all that stuff.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:01
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I have to say those proposed changes will certainly change up gameplay significantly. There's so many changes I'm not really sure how it will affect gameplay without seeing it. I suspect UWE doesn't really know either short of actually testing it. Exos are going to be really weak now early on but being able to get them with only 1 command station seems fair since Aliens could always get an Onos. I also like how Aliens can spawn eggs at hives now without a shift. I welcome that change.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:15
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You can test out all of these changes on the balance test mod. They don't mention some things like how they changed jetpack fuel usage/recharge.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:17
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Also, removing the automated armor repair from armories sounds like it's going to be a real pain. I hope people learn to sit loving still long enough to be welded when that's implemented. It also seems like this would clog up marine communication a bit more with people asking to be welded constantly. Perhaps if they also implemented a key to call for a weld as a non-exo marine, as long as it alerts other marines and not the commander.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:21
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Umbra before spores is an interesting lerk change that I think will make mid-game a whole lot more interesting. Usually when I get umbra there's a bunch of gorges and onos on the field and who gives a poo poo at that point? I'd rather be helping some skulks or a fade take out a phase gate than make the game go a little faster once it's already been won.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:37
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I hope this brings in some new people or makes the current players shut up a little. The earlier comments about the playerbase not being much smaller but definitely being more caustic are completely true in my experience. I got the game in the Christmas sale and just read about the mechanics and buildings on the wiki for about an hour before I started playing. That was all I needed because the players were friendly enough to teach me everything else and didn't make me feel terrible for not being perfect. There were a lot of other new players and the environment was much less strict, so it was just more fun in general. Yesterday a friend asked me if she should get NS2 or wait for Battlefield 4 and I had to say BF4. I was recommending this game to everyone five months ago, but since then I think a lot of its potential has been wasted by obnoxious people and patches that cater to the worst of them. I'm not done with it yet but I think some pretty serious changes need to happen to sustain it.
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Jun 16, 2013 04:52
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Holy poo poo, I'm excited to see what these changes bring to the game.
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Jun 16, 2013 06:39
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I've been waiting for BT to go 'live' for what feels like forever, I'm guessing that the new LUA interpreter has been something they've had planned for ages and now that it's all settled they want to go ahead with balance. The changelog doesn't mention that the movement code has been totally rewritten so that JP/skulk/lerk/fade all play quite differently now. Skulks can get up some serious speed now with the new "guys this isn't bunnyhopping I swear" movement, lerks are a bit less mobile (you loose more momentum when turning and generally need to flap more and glide less), and the fade is completely different with shadowstep being only for evasion in-combat and blink being more like it was in NS1.
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Jun 16, 2013 08:39
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I'm glad they took out Whip grenade toss as the game currently is, but really hope they can balance it back in. Maybe have it a mode that the whip could put in, like bombard. I don't know if like the Shade/Craig/Shift can always be built, though.
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Jun 16, 2013 09:02
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P.S. STILL COMPLETELY DEVOID OF MERIT
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That's a lot of marine buffs.  quote:- removed "no res while dead" rule Halle-loving-lujah. Merging Silence/Camo is also great, although Aura sounds pretty pointless and doesn't make going Shade first more appealing.
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Jun 16, 2013 10:25
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Aura sounds like the old Scent of Fear to me, which was a pretty useful upgrade
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Jun 16, 2013 10:36
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"Armouries no longer heal armour" is enough to negate a lot of the positive changes to Marines. It was tried before and made playing a marine painfully boring because you either died instantly (from having little to no armour after taking a hit earlier) or were constantly having to weld each other in a big welding circle jerk. No idea why its back.
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Jun 16, 2013 11:21
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Maybe you'll finally have a reason to build MACs now!
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Jun 16, 2013 14:12
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I played a few hours of the BT in May before I stopped playing. It didn't draw me in and the movement code was annoying. It's still NS2.
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Jun 16, 2013 15:53
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Supernorn posted:"Armouries no longer heal armour" is enough to negate a lot of the positive changes to Marines. It was tried before and made playing a marine painfully boring because you either died instantly (from having little to no armour after taking a hit earlier) or were constantly having to weld each other in a big welding circle jerk. No idea why its back. Its balanced a bit by the fact welders can be bought at game start, but yeah. I think a good middle group would be an armory upgrade to let it repair armor. Maybe take armory cost down to 7 or 8, and have armor repair be a 5-8 res upgrade, maybe have it auto researched for the first armory that's dropped.
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Jun 16, 2013 18:13
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Garfu posted:I played a few hours of the BT in May before I stopped playing. It didn't draw me in and the movement code was annoying. It's still NS2. Can you give us a little more detail than this, especially on the movement code? I was excited when I read the changes, it seemed like an interesting rebalance. Also, 5 res gorges with no upgrades dropping hydras all day every day.
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Jun 16, 2013 20:43
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colonp fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2013 21:34
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colonp posted:Skulks are slower, and I think have less acceleration, but can reach higher speeds with proper technique (sorta similar to bhopping but it's not bhopping and I can't figure out how it works). This makes them A LOT less fun for me, maybe just because I can't do it. Wait, skulks are slower than they were after the last change which slowed them down?
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Jun 16, 2013 21:50
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colonp fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Jun 16, 2013 23:12
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Wellthe changes sounded awesome at first but seems like everyone who tries it is unimpressed. I'll still reinstall and check em out myself though because it seems they are making an effort to shake up the stale game play and that has been my biggest complaint, boring static tech trees lead to boring static tactics.
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Jun 16, 2013 23:25
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Oh man I love this game. I've pumped 200 hours into NS2 and at least that many into NS1. Guess what? I still loving suck. In a straight up 1v1 dogfight I lose 80% of the time easily. Doesn't matter if I'm marine or skulk. Doesn't matter if I have 3/3 weapons and armor or all alien upgrades and they have nothing. I still always die at about the same rate. I think I'm slightly better at alien now though. So maybe I only die 75% of the time there. Yeah yeah I know "never go alone". But lets face it, that 1v1 dogfight scenario happens all the drat time in every game, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. With teammates around I do ok. I do well as support too like as a gorge or lerk(can't kill people with bite though) and I do great with a JP and GL or flamethrower or something. Its just the basic skulk vs marine that I suck at. If I ever find myself alone as a skulk and far from teammates, I run away from any and all marines and just try to kill an RT or something. When the marines come to stop me I run or hide, wait for them to leave, then go back and finish it off. I spend a lot of my time avoiding combat at all costs. If I find myself alone and far from teammates as a marine I consider myself a dead man and so I attempt to just rambo an RT or upgrade chamber or maybe stealth break a cyst chain or do something else really annoying like that. I only try and initiate a 1v1 encounter if I have a crazy advantage. Like if I have invisibility up and the marine is all alone and welding a power node totally unaware of me or something. But even with these advantages I lose far more often than I should. At least 3 times now I have snuck up on a marine with his welder out, positioned myself out of his vision like above and behind his head or something like that, and attacked from complete and total surprise. Each time I got at least 2 free direct hits on him before he knew I was even there. But nope, that's often not good enough for me to get the kill. Three times now when I've tried to do this the guy just pulled his gun out and blew me away instantly before I could finish him off. He doesn't even move away and dance around trying to avoid me, he just stands totally still, pulls out his gun and blows me away instantly, then goes back to welding. It's really embarrassing when that happens. I'm no better at marine. If I get in a 1v1 fight vs a skulk and I'm able to start shooting him at long range, I win maybe 30% of the time. If he closes the distance and gets in melee range before I can kill him then I'm pretty much toast. Me vs a skulk in melee range equals about a 10% survival rate for me. 3/3 upgrades raise that to maybe 15%. It's pretty pathetic. But that's what's great about this game. Even though I'm totally terrible at the death match part, I can still have tons of fun and be an actual asset to my team and help them win. I never really feel like I'm costing the team the game. Hell, I usually get in the top 25% as far as points go. I guess maybe this is because I tend to play on bigger pop servers. I would never even attempt a 6v6 or something like that. My horrible skills would totally cost my team the game with that few amount of players.
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Jun 16, 2013 23:49
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Well, if nothing else I love the no res while dead change. That is going to help me so much. I'm that guy who sometimes leads the pub server by five kills and has maybe five or six less deaths than I have kills. I play skulk and I die constantly but I almost always take at least one person with me and I have once or twice eaten three people solo. With this rez change I'm going to gorge constantly and throw up hydras and poo poo and then go die and skulk until my hydras die while saving for Onos. I'll probably be able to afford to keep hydras up at a base the entire game through several attacks while still going Onos in a reasonable timeframe. Suicide bile attacks for just 5-7 rez (adrenaline). Is there a hive restriction on upgrade levels now that you can and kinda have to build 3 of each structure eventually? Like you have to have the third hive before planting level 3 carapace?
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Jun 17, 2013 03:52
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Res while dead also means people aren't going to hang back and be useless in the first 4 minutes just so they can go lerk early.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:21
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Fallom posted:Res while dead also means people aren't going to hang back and be useless in the first 4 minutes just so they can go lerk early. Lies, they still need to protect that precious KDR.
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Jun 17, 2013 05:27
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Guesticles posted:Lies, they still need to protect that precious KDR. Still don't know why KDR needs to be down on the scoreboard. One of the ns1 builds had no kdr and the world didn't explode overnight....
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Jun 17, 2013 05:48
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Iirc the scoreboard was returned to "normal" because of complaints from the competitive community.
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Jun 17, 2013 06:34
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colonp posted:At one point blink had no cooldown and fading was so much fun, but that got changed recently. Why would they do this? "Guys people are having fun playing aliens bring out the kneecap-smashing hammer"
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Jun 17, 2013 09:48
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colonp fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2013 11:10
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This latest patch is beautiful, I cannot believe how silky smooth the game is now. I went from 12-15 fps to around 30-40. I can't believe I can play my favourite game with a modicum of skill now. Before I never used to understand why I died so often as a skulk; now I know. It's seriously like a new game for me, and this was a game I loved when it played like poo poo (let's not even talk about the beta). Bring on the balance patch!
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Jun 17, 2013 12:41
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edit: ^^^ I know! I actually put rich infestation back on! No longer bare minimum settings for me. I've actually had a lot of good experiences with other players in the last couple of days. For one thing, I've seen a lot of people being patient and even setting up an entire "tutorial" match to help groups of rookies learn the game. For another, we had a group of marines who didn't want to command so we started an impromptu rock-paper-scissors game to see who would do it (rifle beats pistol, pistol beats axe, axe beats rifle). I ran over to the contestants who were rapidly cycling through their weapons, aimed my pistol in the air, and told them to declare on my mark. Everything went smoothly and the loser went on to command the game. I love that kind of silliness and that whole group of people was just being super friendly and funny throughout. Now if only my couple hundred hours of gaming since I started in March would translate into not being terrible at this game.
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Jun 17, 2013 12:51
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A fun game I had a while back was when as Marines we got hammered back to Flight Control fairly early, so myself and a few other people started doing races from the little walkway bridge thing with the bottom of crevice as the finishing line. Aliens were considered hazards and also the starting pistol (the cue to start running was the first dead alien or marine after we were all at the starting gate).
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Jun 17, 2013 14:31
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No performance increase for me, but I have a pretty killer rig. The only thing getting better in my case is every other player.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:42
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Commander Keenan posted:No performance increase for me, but I have a pretty killer rig. The only thing getting better in my case is every other player. I noticed the same thing on an i7 3770k, 660 GTX ti, 8gb RAM. Or at least the performance increase is subtle for me.
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Jun 17, 2013 21:30
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Kerpal posted:I noticed the same thing on an i7 3770k, 660 GTX ti, 8gb RAM. Or at least the performance increase is subtle for me. Yep. The thing they have to tackle now is the map load time. That thing is brutal.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:26
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Kerpal posted:I noticed the same thing on an i7 3770k, 660 GTX ti, 8gb RAM. Or at least the performance increase is subtle for me. Obviously you're not going to see a big improvement to performance when you already have a killer rig. People that were previously bottle-necked by their CPU or GPU would see the biggest jump. quote:Yep. The thing they have to tackle now is the map load time. That thing is brutal. The initial load is so bad it makes me want to lose the will to live. I think it's literally 5 minutes long on my rig? You can tell they just made the game front load everything possible to stop the on-the-fly hitching problems. Granted after that the loads are a lot quicker but talk about a bad first impression.
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Jun 18, 2013 00:45
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Supernorn posted:The initial load is so bad it makes me want to lose the will to live. I think it's literally 5 minutes long on my rig? You can tell they just made the game front load everything possible to stop the on-the-fly hitching problems. Granted after that the loads are a lot quicker but talk about a bad first impression. Even with the long load times, I sometimes have to wait a minute or more in the server for my textures, HUD and map to finish loading. It's pretty irritating on servers that immediately assign you to a team since I'm stuck in the dark with no map.
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Jun 18, 2013 01:26
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I'm kind of surprised that NS2's comp scene never took off and is already where NS1s` is now. Even though I loved playing NS1 competitively (I was mostly a B-team or ringer since I sucked dick at anything except Lerk but I was a really good marine whore), I admit I never got into NS2 even I tried it a couple times and had some fun here and there--I just never felt the urge to play it. I attributed it to getting old and slower reflexes, but in retrospect it was probably a combination of horrible performance, bad hit reg, movement system is very janky and far less interesting than NS1, and just not really fun mechanics. I hope their new patch really shakes things up and fixes some of those issues as I'm willing to keep giving it a chance as long as they seem like they recognize they have a problem. I'm probably in the minority here, but I loved pubbing on NS1 CO_ servers and I kind of wish NS2 went full-bore expanding that mode instead of some weird hybrid. (Yeah yeah I know there's a mod for it, but it's still lacking and the reg was absolutely god awful on the server I played it so it left a bad taste in my mouth). Xaris fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jun 18, 2013 |
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Jun 18, 2013 04:14
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The biggest problem with NS2 since the start re: the comp scene (other than performance issues) has been that they added new stuff because it sounded like a cool idea (shadowstep, powernodes, infestation/cysts, alien comm) without the game actually being better off for it. Many of the changes in BT are just trying to fix the problems that were introduced by these new systems but it's taken about 6 months longer than it should have done. I really hope the game picks up some more popularity again because BT is a huge step in the right direction and the recent performance gains should be significant for many players.
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Jun 18, 2013 08:09
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There was a lot of reinventing the wheel early on, mostly for the sake of not wanting to cover the same ground with NS1. I remember some of the earlier builds, marines were completely incapable of building structures. It was an intentional gameplay decision and it felt like the devs didn't understand why people enjoyed the first game. I agree that the Alien Commander is one of the bigger culprits of this, it was a pretty unnecessary addition that wasn't any good for the majority of development, and even now it's not particularly engaging. Unlike the Marine Commander being vital to the success of your team, you can hop in and research a few things and then jump back out. I have the suspicion it was only added to balance out the generally asymmetrical gameplay of both teams.
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Jun 18, 2013 10:15
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Kerpal posted:I noticed the same thing on an i7 3770k, 660 GTX ti, 8gb RAM. Or at least the performance increase is subtle for me. Also you should be noticing late-game being smoother instead of a low fps slideshow.
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Jun 18, 2013 13:05
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