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As people in the Craigslist thread probably know, yesterday I bought a 1962 Studebaker Lark Daytona. The Lark To quote Wikipedia: "At the time the Lark was conceived, Studebaker-Packard Corporation was under a management contract with Curtiss-Wright Aircraft Company. Studebaker-Packard had been losing money for years when company president Harold E. Churchill came up with the idea of abandoning the full-size car market in favor of building a new compact car that he hoped would save the company." "The Lark was ingeniously designed around the core bodyshell of the full-sized 1953–1958 Studebakers. By reducing the front and rear overhangs and shortening the wheelbase ahead of the firewall, the car could still seat six people comfortably and hold a surprising amount of luggage. It was hoped that the vehicle would save America's oldest vehicle manufacturer when it was launched in the fall of 1958 as a 1959 model, much like the 1939 Studebaker Champion had saved the company in the years prior to World War II. In fact, it was the Champion which Churchill specifically took as his inspiration for the Lark." The Daytona was released in 1962, introducing bucket seats and a center console. And by bucket seats, I mean a bench seat cut in half, with a 4" wide bit down the middle. It's approved by Mr. Ed!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEfscN9Ppuc My Lark  I found this one in Oakland, listed for $5500. I went out, looked it over, took a test drive, and got it for $4700. It's got an inline-6 engine and a 3-speed automatic transmission. The inside is really quite nice. The carpeting has been redone--it's not original, but it's quite nice. I believe the seats have been dyed black, which seems to be rubbing off in a few places to reveal what looks like white-and-black vinyl underneath, but the seats are in excellent un-ripped condition. The knobs on the dash are in pretty good shape considering, and the gauges have recently been replaced so they're quite shiny. Apparently the radio works, but the PO disconnected it and wired in a modern stereo with CD player, thankfully discreetly placed under the passenger seat. (I've put a CD full of "Man... or Astro-Man?" albums in there, it's perfect).  This one really shows how the dye has rubbed off a bit:  The engine seems pretty nice. I don't know its history, but it starts up immediately (seriously might start quicker than my 2010 Honda Fit) and runs quite smoothly. It's tended to get the temperature gauge up near the top end when I drive it, and correspondingly the oil pressure gets low when things get hot. I'm thinking the radiator needs a new cap and a cleaning; the current cap is really old, corroded, and comes off with just a twist.  I'm already loving the poo poo out of this vehicle. I drove it home from Oakland on I-880 and Highway 84 (a windy road through the hills) and had a blast. I'm getting the hang of the brakes and the steering. Things What Need Doing The biggest issue with this car is rust. It's not falling to pieces, but underneath there is definitely some rust which I'll have to try scrubbing off and hitting with neutralizer. I live in a very desert climate, very hot and dry, so hopefully things won't get faster. There's a bit of a hole under the battery, for instance; I'll probably take it to one of the two body shops within 1/2 mile of my house and get them to weld something in. There's also the heat thing. Once I've driven a few miles, the heat gauge ends up between 75% and 100% and stays in that range the whole time; the oil pressure correspondingly drops as the temperature goes up. As I mentioned, the radiator needs a new cap and probably a cleaning. There's no shroud in there, so that's probably an option. The PO installed a hoodliner, which may or may not be holding heat in. I'm hoping it doesn't need a rebuild; while I don't mind doing a rebuild (this is a fun "play with old cars" thing anyway) I'd rather do it on my own time. I'd love to put in a manual transmission. It's got an automatic which works just fine, but I find manuals much more interesting. Needs new tires. It currently has bias-ply whitewall show tires. I'd rather put on a pair of decent radial all-weathers so I don't die in a light sprinkle. More Pictures! Honestly this doesn't have any Instagram filters, I just found a sweet place for a picture:    Who's that over there?  EDIT: I am an idiot who doesn't know how to set a thread icon, making this truly a poo poo post. EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: Somebody awesome changed the thread icon, thanks! Pham Nuwen fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 05:07
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That is hot poo poo right there.  Looks very S-Type Chrysler Valiant in it's styling.
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Jul 15, 2013 05:30
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My great grandpa used to say, "A Studebaker is a automobile, the rest are just cars." I really like your Daytona. I'd investigate the cooling system further to see what the issues are. It is also the middle of summer which is pretty hard on a old cars cooling system.
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Jul 15, 2013 05:46
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Looks like water pumps are available for those, so pretty much no matter what's wrong with the cooling system you should be able to sort it out. Does it cool better at high speeds? That could indicate that a shroud would help. But if it gets hotter the faster you drive it, either you have something gummed up, or possibly a bad water pump? Are all the belts in good shape?
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Jul 15, 2013 06:55
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If anything a good electric auxiliary fan would be awesome as well. But I imagine your rad is toast. Find a good radiator shop, that one can be rebuilt.
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Jul 15, 2013 12:18
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Very sweet Lark. Regarding the engine heat - I'd find some way to measure the actual operating temperature before doing too much to mitigate a possible hot running condition. Sounds like your gauge is calibrated to essentially "good/bad" or "0-100%", which doesn't mean much... Add in the possibility that it's not entirely accurate, and who knows what's going on. If the radiator cap is that loose, and the engine were truly running hot, I'd think you'd see some water/steam/scary stuff when the motor was hot? Run it, get it hot, and check it with an IR thermometer if you have one. Or buy a cheap add on temp gauge and slap it in there temporarily. Same with the oil pressure - there's a reason you see so many old cars with that little 2 or 3 gauge cluster hanging below the dash.. It's nice to know what's actually going on! You can always remove it once you're satisfied that it's borked, or not borked.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:16
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jhcain posted:Very sweet Lark. My temp gauge looks pretty much like this:  It pretty quickly gets to the second-to-last tick. Where should I aim the IR thermometer? The upper radiator hose? It's got an oil pressure gauge with numbers and all. I'll try to keep track of what it does today.
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Jul 15, 2013 16:37
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I'm so glad you bought this.  Looking forward to the thread!
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Jul 15, 2013 19:33
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If you do need a new radiator don't be shocked to find they are expensive. My GF's dad is a Studebaker guy and he is in the process of fixing his '60 Lark to give her, apparently the I6 radiator is pretty rare. It needing one of those and a carb tuning are the only things preventing it from being in our garage right now.
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Jul 15, 2013 20:47
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IF you need to pick up a radiator, I'd strongly suggest giving the folks at Be Cool a call. They not only have pretty sweet universal rads, they can custom build a new one based off of specs you provide. Plus they've been around for a while and lots of people use their stuff with no problem.
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Jul 15, 2013 21:36
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Well balls, first issue struck. I decided to drive it to work today, trying to work a can of Seafoam through the engine. It's only 4 miles or so. I came in, then drove us to lunch because co-workers wanted to see the car. As I was making the last turn into the parking lot, the engine shut off and I coasted into my parking spot. Further attempts to start it have been met with the engine spinning and occasionally coughing like it wants to start, but not actually catching. Hopefully I can get it going to get home tonight, but I'm actually not sure where to start. It's in a safe place right now if I can't get it running, but gently caress engine problems.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:44
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Pham Nuwen posted:Well balls, first issue struck. I decided to drive it to work today, trying to work a can of Seafoam through the engine. It's only 4 miles or so. Be careful and have a '60s mindset in operating this awesome car. You're dealing with a car that is half a century old and you do not know its entire history -- when was the carburetor rebuilt? Using what materials/gaskets/floats? Do you know that Seafoam won't attack or soften anything in there? Do you know whether or not Seafoam will knock some gunk loose and plug up the orifices? Cars were simpler in the '60s, but entirely mechanical and MUCH more temperamental than the appliances we drive now.
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Jul 15, 2013 22:47
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It lives! I went out again, kept cranking, gave it some gas, and it started up. Pretty weak at first, but I gave it some throttle and soon the oil pressure was up and it was idling fine. I killed it and re-started it, started up on the first crank this time. Vapor lock? Crud knocked out by seafoam? (I checked on the studebaker forums, couldn't find any indication that Seafoam is naughty for these engines) Only odd thing I noticed was that as I sat there in park, occasionally running up the RPMs, was that when I gave it a quick press of the pedal it would sometimes "quack". I had the hood up so I could hear things very well, it wasn't especially loud and it only seemed to happen when I gave it a quick pump of the gas pedal. Any guesses?
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Jul 15, 2013 23:32
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I would really recommend doing a carb rebuild unless the owner has documented proof it has been done in a while in the last 3 years or so. While your at it, new fuel filter as well. Next, I would rebuild the ignition. It will cost around 30 bucks or so with parts off rockauto and pretty much takes the guess work out of any issues. (assuming that it hasn't been converted to electronic) You will need a new set of points, condenser, rotor, cap, plugs and plug wires. Its cheap enough and eliminates any issues/guess work. You need to find a set of feeler gauges to set points, but its easy enough, there are plenty of how-to's online. They are mechanically simple units, but when something is just a little out of whack, it makes poo poo act retardedly strange. Top Tip  : Carry an extra set of points and a condenser with you. In a pinch, a matchbook cover and a screw driver will get you back on the road.Edit: I was just looking, it looks like your car came with the possibility of two different types of distributors, autolite and delco. Be careful which one you order, but otherwise you have SUPER common wear item parts. Also when it comes to oil, I am not to familiar with Studebaker engines, but I can recommend Rotella T as a safe bet. Yes the diesel oil. It contains lots of additives and detergents that old tech engines like. The Rover V8, BMW M30s, Porsche and alot of older low tech engine people run it. BrokenKnucklez fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 23:51
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BrokenKnucklez posted:I would really recommend doing a carb rebuild unless the owner has documented proof it has been done in a while in the last 3 years or so. While your at it, new fuel filter as well. This all sounds great. I've been trying to get my to-do list in order, and without much experience on these era of vehicles, I'm not sure what should be done or in what order. I made a rockauto order last night of some basic stuff (radiator cap, two thermostats [they had both 160 and 180 degree, ordered both to be safe], air filter) and the shop manual. Decided this morning that I should also get a new temperature sender, so I guess it's already time to cook up a new shopping list!
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Jul 15, 2013 23:56
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Also when it comes to oil, I am not to familiar with Studebaker engines, but I can recommend Rotella T as a safe bet. Absolutely yes on this car. It has the same high pressure shear surfaces as our old junk, so it needs the same elevated ZDDP levels to coat and protect them from
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Jul 16, 2013 00:07
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Motronic posted:Absolutely yes on this car. It has the same high pressure shear surfaces as our old junk, so it needs the same elevated ZDDP levels to coat and protect them from Ok, I had just bought some regular 10W-30, I'll return that and try to pick up a jug of Rotella 10W-30. If they have it in 30W as recommended by the owner's manual, should I get that instead? I saw mention elsewhere of "Engine Restore", didn't see any counter-indications on the Studebaker forums, just some "can't hurt, hasn't ruined my engine" responses. Have any of you tried it? Is it worth a shot? Or is it just bullshit snake-oil?
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Jul 16, 2013 00:21
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Pham Nuwen posted:Ok, I had just bought some regular 10W-30, I'll return that and try to pick up a jug of Rotella 10W-30. If they have it in 30W as recommended by the owner's manual, should I get that instead? It might help out some, but I imagine its just mostly snake oil. They don't normally stock it in 30W (I don't think it exists) So go with 15W-40. It will be perfectly fine for summer driving, and you will need to do something a little less thick for the winter.
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Jul 16, 2013 00:29
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BrokenKnucklez posted:It might help out some, but I imagine its just mostly snake oil. They don't normally stock it in 30W (I don't think it exists) So go with 15W-40. It will be perfectly fine for summer driving, and you will need to do something a little less thick for the winter. Ok, so screw the snake-oil thing, I'm a bit suspicious of miracle additives anyway. I'm pretty sure I saw 30W diesel oil in the shop, but that owner's manual was written 50 years ago so if you recommend Rotella 15W-40, I'll do that.
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Jul 16, 2013 00:36
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Yeah, in most cases you can disregard any recommendation for a single-weight oil over a multi-viscosity oil if that recommendation predates multi-viscosity. The performance of 10w30 and SAE30 are going to be nearly identical when hot. The difference is that the 10w30 will flow a lot better when cold and cause a lot less startup damage.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:06
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Coming back to your low oil pressure, I would imagine your engine has some blow by (unburned gasoline getting mixed with the oil) and causing your oil to get pretty thin. I would change your boil first before you drive it any more, just to be safe. You could be in for a rebuild (possibly, do a compression check - there's a good YouTube video some one posted in the stupid question thread) bug if your compression is decent, a good seafoam job might bring back a little loss compression. Run your check and bring back the numbers. I think auto zone rents em.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:07
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Pham Nuwen posted:Ok, I had just bought some regular 10W-30, I'll return that and try to pick up a jug of Rotella 10W-30. If they have it in 30W as recommended by the owner's manual, should I get that instead? Yes, you want Rotella T 10w30. The reason the manual calls for straight 30 weight is because either there was no multigrade oil available at the time of writing or it was new and crappy. As mentioned the multigrade stuff will help you on cold starts plus the additive package will do a superior job on thermal breakdown, shear, cleaning, and fuel contamination. It's far superior to straight 30 weight. The recommendation for "Engine Restore" may come form people who are deluded enough to run straight 30 weight in their cars still. Yes, it is available. I use it. IN MY MOWER. It has no detergents or additives of any kind and is specifically labeled as such:  This is what goes in your landscaper-grade Kholer Magnum 20 powered 52" Scag walk behind mower because you know that some additives in regular motor oil build up and screw with things in this type of engine because of low oil pressure and temperatures when you only run it for an hour and a half a week instead of 6 days a week for 6 to 8 hours. It is a poor choice for any relatively modern-design car motor given the available choices today.
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Jul 16, 2013 01:26
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The new challenge: where the hell is the oil filter? The manual shows it on the other side of the engine from the carburetor, I can't find it any drat place. Googling, it was apparently optional on some of the engines! You're supposed to change the oil every 1000 miles in that case. I'll try to confirm this but drat... at least the Rotella oil was pretty cheap. There just aren't many places under the car for it to be, so maybe that's what I'm dealing with.
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Jul 16, 2013 02:58
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Right rear corner, under the aircleaner/behind the exhaust downpipe.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:25
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Pham Nuwen posted:Only odd thing I noticed was that as I sat there in park, occasionally running up the RPMs, was that when I gave it a quick press of the pedal it would sometimes "quack". I had the hood up so I could hear things very well, it wasn't especially loud and it only seemed to happen when I gave it a quick pump of the gas pedal. Any guesses? This is old, but anyway: It's probably your alternator belt squeaking trying to keep up. Is the belt tension adequate? The rule of thumb I was taught in high school is that there should be about one inch of deflection per one foot of span, as you're pushing on the belt with your thumb.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:50
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Bucephalus posted:Right rear corner, under the aircleaner/behind the exhaust downpipe. Do you have a diagram? I swear I was all over that engine and couldn't find the drat thing.
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Jul 16, 2013 03:57
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Nope, just a GIS:  
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Jul 16, 2013 04:08
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I'll check for the oil filter tomorrow when it's light again. If there actually is one, well, I'll drive for a while, then change the oil again and get the filter this time. After changing the oil, I started the engine again (fired up immediately) and took it around the block. As I came back into my driveway and started pulling in, the engine started running slower and quieter, seeming to sputter a bit, and the "AMP" light came on, then the engine died. As best I can tell, this is the same thing that happened this afternoon. With uninformed speculation, I'm thinking it may be one of these: 1. Dying alternator or intermittent connection somewhere in the wiring? 2. Gunk in the carburetor occasionally blocking off the flow of fuel. I figure the electrical system should be pretty straightforward to check, and I need to clean the carburetor anyway. Any more thoughts on what might be up?
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Jul 16, 2013 05:55
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Yeah check the battery for resting voltage, then ditto for the alternator once it's running. Also check the cables running to the starter + alt. Do a voltage drop test to see if there's any resistance on the alternator wire, red probe on the alternator terminal, black on battery positive, should read less than .1-.4V. Also, check the condition of the drive belt, it may be old and starting to slip.
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Jul 16, 2013 06:05
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Just don't do anything drastic. 
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Jul 16, 2013 06:20
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God drat is that a gorgeous car.
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Jul 16, 2013 07:17
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The Studebaker forumites think it's a carburetor problem. Once the shop manual shows up, I guess I'll get to learn how to clean a carb! $55 for a rebuild kit seems steep but god knows how old the rubber in there is, so I guess I should order one? I've just put in an order at rockauto for a bunch of new electrical stuff (points, condenser, distributor cap and rotor) and a belt (mine seems a bit slippy). Should be fun! Actually I'm wondering now, given that the belt is a little slippy, I wonder if at idle it's slipping on the generator and making it stop generating enough to lose ignition.
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Jul 17, 2013 07:16
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Pham Nuwen posted:The Studebaker forumites think it's a carburetor problem. Once the shop manual shows up, I guess I'll get to learn how to clean a carb! $55 for a rebuild kit seems steep but god knows how old the rubber in there is, so I guess I should order one? Probably not, these older cars don't have much in the way of electronics in them so they'll run the ignition for a very long time off of the battery. I've driven home with a nonfunctional alternator in my old Chevy (it actually had an internal short, so it was worse than dead) and that was over half an hour. I had aftermarket electronic ignition, though.
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Jul 17, 2013 07:21
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FWIW a generator isn't putting out much at low speed/idle any ways. This is the time to seriously consider how original you want the car. An alternator will make life a MILLION times easier and the output is always so much higher.
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Jul 17, 2013 12:21
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A chevy straight 6 will make your life a million times better. You only bought one 2 year too old and made in the wrong country.
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Jul 17, 2013 13:45
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BrokenKnucklez posted:FWIW a generator isn't putting out much at low speed/idle any ways. This, a carb rebuild and a electronic ignition upgrade will take the car from a "hope it gets home" to a "lets go for a weekend drive on the coast" type of car.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:25
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BrokenKnucklez posted:FWIW a generator isn't putting out much at low speed/idle any ways. This. If you want a driver, an aftermarket modern carb, electronic ignition, and an alternator would increase drivability and reliability by leaps and bounds.
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Jul 17, 2013 14:43
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Pham Nuwen posted:$55 for a rebuild kit seems steep but god knows how old the rubber in there is, so I guess I should order one? Absolutely you should order one. Who know the last time it was rebuilt and supposedly the new kits are using slightly different materials that don't turn to mush with ethanol fuel. And feel lucky you have one carb. $55 is about what one kit costs for my Merc outboard. It has 3 carbs. 
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Jul 17, 2013 15:33
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Did this car originally have a 6 volt electrical system? Wouldn't it be a huge pain in the rear end to switch to an alternator if so? Perhaps you could install a regulator so that you could install a normal 12 volt alternator but still keep the original 6 volt electrical system. Anyway, awesome car and I look forward to following this thread.
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Jul 17, 2013 17:06
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Did this car originally have a 6 volt electrical system? Wouldn't it be a huge pain in the rear end to switch to an alternator if so? Perhaps you could install a regulator so that you could install a normal 12 volt alternator but still keep the original 6 volt electrical system. Idea which is probably terrible: Hook the alternator up to 2 6-volt batteries wired in series and run split electrical systems like some semis do with 12V. Wire both together to run a modern starter, tap off just one to run the stock electrical system and the other for a bitchin' stereo system!
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Jul 17, 2013 18:29
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