|
RagnarokAngel posted:It was not the first civ to do that. Seoul was a city-state I believe, and Jakarta definitely was. I think that Civ V uses city-states mostly as a way of having a gameplay mechanic for countries that never become great powers. So lots of city-states are just major cities from nations that wouldn't make sense for a full-out faction (Canada, for instance), and global politics become more realistic when (numerically) most states aren't huge and powerful.
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 05:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 10:03 |
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Don't worry about expanding early. Taking Transvaal for their diamond mines is good. But your main advantage is that you've only got one state so you can very quickly ramp up your literacy and max out your research and get way ahead in tech. Focus on prestige and industry techs - you have coal and iron mines so you can easily make to secondary power status. Then when 1880 rolls around you can get a head start in colonization and block the UK and other powers from taking a fairly hefty portion of the continent. So are you meaning that because I have only one state, I can encourage clergy/clerks for tech on basically my whole country? Because otherwise I don't see how Oranje is any better than anyone else, since you start with like 6% literacy which is pitiful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 07:32
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Don't worry about expanding early. Taking Transvaal for their diamond mines is good. But your main advantage is that you've only got one state so you can very quickly ramp up your literacy and max out your research and get way ahead in tech. Focus on prestige and industry techs - you have coal and iron mines so you can easily make to secondary power status. Then when 1880 rolls around you can get a head start in colonization and block the UK and other powers from taking a fairly hefty portion of the continent. Its really hard to compete with the UK unless you expand to a coast and build a navy. And then you have to grapple with hordes of non accepted low literacy pops. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 07:59
|
|
|
DStecks posted:This is going to sound racist as hell, but what is it with Poles and strategy games? You don't see anybody else losing their loving minds over how/if their country exists as a faction. Is there just a really big strategy game fanbase in Poland? Oh come on, pretty much everyone does that, its not limited to Poland.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 08:07
|
|
|
There are a lot of historical reasons for nationalism to run strong in parts of eastern Europe and the Balkans so it only makes sense that some of that shines though when talking about historical or quasi-historical games like Paradox's or Civilization. While the worst nationalistic posts come from those regions, you still see it every now and again from other places in the world. From Americans being angry about the names of provinces in the middle of nowhere to British people getting mad about the way people pronounce their city names. 
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 08:22
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There are a lot of historical reasons for nationalism to run strong in parts of eastern Europe and the Balkans so it only makes sense that some of that shines though when talking about historical or quasi-historical games like Paradox's or Civilization. While the worst nationalistic posts come from those regions, you still see it every now and again from other places in the world. From Americans being angry about the names of provinces in the middle of nowhere to British people getting mad about the way people pronounce their city names. I don't think it's really this clear cut. It's just a matter of perception. You don't converse with umpteen different Serbians or Poles on a daily basis, so when you see the one loudmouth guy on a forum somewhere it's easy to go 'oh man those Serbs'. Iwanow, who kind of spawned this tangent when I mentioned him, isn't even 'going nuts' about the lack of a dev diary. It's more like he's jokingly teasing about it, and I thought the whole situation was a little funny. I mean you do run across crazies who want to string up anyone different from them and wave their country's flag while they do it, but you can hear about 900 people like that by flipping to any conservative talk radio show in the U.S. at any given time too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 08:46
|
|
|
I have had a lot of fun playing around with the "Shattered" start in CK2+ and Project Balance where every county starts independent. Is it possible to have or is there already some way to have this start for vanilla game? My multiplayer buddy isn't warming up very well to the idea of big mods so it would be nice to have something little to spice up our gaming sessions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 09:02
|
|
|
Having interacted with Iwanow (insomuch as he was in the same EU3 game and TS chat as myself) I can say, without much doubt, the man is probably entirely sincere and is most certainly insane. Goddamn lunatic would literally not shut up about his breakfast for three hours!
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 09:03
|
|
|
Given that most of the 20th Century consisted of people trying to wipe out Polish nationalism and that Poland didn't exist at all in the 19th Century, it's pretty understandable that Polish people might have developed a certain sensitivity over seeing their existence whitewashed from history. e: likewise for other Eastern European states, particularly the Balkans. Everyone has crazy nationalists, but if people seem particularly nationalistic then there's probably some recent historic trauma that explains it all. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 09:39
|
|
|
podcat posted:Oh come on, pretty much everyone does that, its not limited to Poland. Imagine if Poland was a real diplomatic battleground, where the states in the region were always trying to swing Poland towards their interests and away from the others, or even outright taking the crown, while whoever is king of Poland would be trying to make his heir king and hopefully turn the kingdom into a hereditary one eventually.* A centralized Poland under a strong king would be a major upset to the political order in the region, which I think would be cool. Just defining Poland as the-state-that-gets-partitioned isn't fun for anyone. That said, partition should of course be part of the possibilities for Poland, and it would be cool if there were variation of this based on the states involved and why it was triggered. Stuff like Russia taking a major chunk of Poland-Lithuania's eastern provinces as a compromise with the new king of Poland, the ruler of Austria, for example. *Some sort of influence system of sorts, where different levels of influence allow you to do different things. Something like this: Royal Authority For whoever is ruling Poland currently, its all about getting your influence high enough to turn the kingdom hereditary, which eliminates this system. Even ensuring your next heirs succession will cost you though, so if you're not sure you can amass enough influence before you die then you have to take the hit. Low levels of influence increase the power point cost of various actions, to simulate the difficulty of getting poo poo done in the Sejm.* You use Diplomatic and Administrative Points to increase your influence. *Alternatively, if it's balanced right, having to use both Diplomatic and Administrative Points to fight off your neighbors influence will do this on its own. Buffer State For everyone not ruling Poland, having a high influence benefits you in different ways. Firstly, it's a limiter to royal authority in Poland, hopefully preventing it from becoming hereditary. Secondly, higher levels prevent Poland from taking offensive actions against you. Thirdly, high influence might allow your ruler to be chosen as the king. You use Diplomatic Points to increase your influence. Constitution & Partition Over time, the diplomatic struggles in Poland are also going to cause a ticker to go up, representing the Polish nobility realizing that this poo poo can't go on. If it reaches its limit, the Poles begin writing a constitution to fix all this poo poo, which will take some years. Upon the adaptation of the constitution, some sort of system for a possible partition of Poland goes into effect. If we imagine the overall system already had a special interface window, similar to the HRE one, with decision for both the king and whoever has influence in Poland, the decisions to suggest a partition could exist here. With a time limit of course. If the time limit expires, Poland can simply turn the whole system off, and become a state in equal standing to its neighbors. Wouldn't such a system be a bit more interesting than Poland just being a big blob in Eastern Europe that's slowly gobbled up by its neighbors? Yes, it might seem like a lot of effort for a single state, but the system would offer additional gameplay for about half of Europe. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 10:14
|
|
|
More videos! Time lapse of an observe game (France is doing great not!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF337DKa6d0 Mamluks and Ottomans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQIpjWu33I Part 8 of the England LP (France is doing great oh god why do you keep joining that Austria-Hungary war?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4zrImhY_k I know it's only 3 more weeks but god drat, just give us the drat game Johan!
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:10
|
|
|
Hazamuth posted:I have had a lot of fun playing around with the "Shattered" start in CK2+ and Project Balance where every county starts independent. Is it possible to have or is there already some way to have this start for vanilla game? My multiplayer buddy isn't warming up very well to the idea of big mods so it would be nice to have something little to spice up our gaming sessions. See these posts in the CK2 thread here, here and here. If you want I can finish tweaking my version and upload it. There are one or two things I want to fix first, though, but it's already fixed a lot of the bugs that I mention in those posts. Note that some dynasties' trees are really hosed up, and that's not a bug I can easily fix because there's so many of them. But not every dynasty is dead, so there's no shortage of possibilities for people to play still.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:19
|
|
|
Anyway, to try to fix the derail I caused, reading that LP was a huge help in getting into the game. I've tried a few games of EU3 now, but since I'm still learning, and have a tendency to not go with easy choices, it tends to be a game of "What's going to gently caress me this time?" A couple of Venice games died early due to not realizing that small states often have big allies, and that I need allies of my own. My most successful Venice game eventually got doomed when I bit off more than I could chew in an invasion of Granada (provoking the wrath of Morocco), followed by not waiting nearly long enough to begin my next campaign, eventually bankrupting me; at which point I called it quits. My next game was Ethiopia, which was pretty drat successful until it turned into an abject clusterfuck. My problems started when I annexed my neighbour in Somalia, I began getting fierce nationalist rebels which would never cease for the rest of the game, even after I released that neighbour as a vassal. Then my king died, and I had a massive succession crisis which caused the country to collapse; and the pretender uprisings never stopped. I ultimately wound up writing off my southern provinces as pretender controlled, since their armies were literally impossible to finish off; I was eventually killing <100 soldiers per combat. If rebels rose in the north, I simply corralled them south behind my wall of armies. Then I had another succession crisis. And a simultaneous invasion from Yemen and Oman. At that point I gave up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
Huh, Wallachia actually managed not to get eaten by the Ottomans. Is Romania a formable nation in EU3? That seems like a nice challenging but not impossible goal. Honestly, a list of formable unhistorical nations would be nice. I love cultural unions, drat it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
The handsoff game is great, the AI still spectacularly fails in some cases (Poland and Lithuania being utterly incapable of beating rebels still, OPM Novgorod and Byzantium for 200 years, France looking like the HRE and France itself having like 3 provinces) but hey the OE does great in Asia, Muscovy goes eastward a long way, no British Finland or Spanish Anatolia, and almost no snaking. Wiz mentioned on the official forums that he's still working on the AI for now and he specifically pointed out OPM Novgorod as something that he really wants to 'fix' so the AI will likely see even greater improvements.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:21
|
|
|
Rejected Fate posted:Is Romania a formable nation in EU3? Yes, it was, although the Golden Horde eating you instantly would make it pretty drat impossible in EU3:DW.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:23
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:The handsoff game is great, the AI still spectacularly fails in some cases (Poland and Lithuania being utterly incapable of beating rebels still, OPM Novgorod and Byzantium for 200 years, France looking like the HRE and France itself having like 3 provinces) but hey the OE does great in Asia, Muscovy goes eastward a long way, no British Finland or Spanish Anatolia, and almost no snaking. Wiz mentioned on the official forums that he's still working on the AI for now and he specifically pointed out OPM Novgorod as something that he really wants to 'fix' so the AI will likely see even greater improvements.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:47
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:The handsoff game is great, the AI still spectacularly fails in some cases (Poland and Lithuania being utterly incapable of beating rebels still, OPM Novgorod and Byzantium for 200 years, France looking like the HRE and France itself having like 3 provinces) but hey the OE does great in Asia, Muscovy goes eastward a long way, no British Finland or Spanish Anatolia, and almost no snaking. Wiz mentioned on the official forums that he's still working on the AI for now and he specifically pointed out OPM Novgorod as something that he really wants to 'fix' so the AI will likely see even greater improvements. The AI is already considerably improved from a month ago. I just can't go into specifics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 15:55
|
|
|
I see it still takes the Ottomans forever to take Constantinople, although at least they actually take it now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 16:09
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:The hand-off between the hungarians and the austrians in the face of the ottomans is still really lackluster. That, and the Burgundian succession. I realize it's a sandbox game, but as it stands, neither of those events are even remotely possible, let alone plausible. I'd like to see those addressed in EU4 or in some expansion. It might be neat for a more powerful co-religionist neighbour to be able to partition a weaker co-religionist neighbour that is getting overrun by a mutual religious enemy: Austria could take over any parts of Hungary they can get their hands on (and thus enter into war with the OE) if the OE is winning a religious war against Hungary; the OE could take over any parts of Algeria that they could get their hands on if it's being overrun by Spain or France, etc. I'd love to see this kind of thing too but it's definitely too far from the sandbox-style gameplay that Paradox seems to be going for now. I'd be perfectly happy to have it nearly impossible to take provinces from fellow Catholics without the Pope getting involved, for example. Wiz posted:The AI is already considerably improved from a month ago. I just can't go into specifics. Good news! Wiz fixer of games 2013
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 16:15
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:The handsoff game is great, the AI still spectacularly fails in some cases (Poland and Lithuania being utterly incapable of beating rebels still, OPM Novgorod and Byzantium for 200 years, France looking like the HRE and France itself having like 3 provinces) but hey the OE does great in Asia, Muscovy goes eastward a long way, no British Finland or Spanish Anatolia, and almost no snaking. Wiz mentioned on the official forums that he's still working on the AI for now and he specifically pointed out OPM Novgorod as something that he really wants to 'fix' so the AI will likely see even greater improvements. Yeah, I feel very middling about it too. Netherlands formed, sweet, Austria (almost) got Bohemia, but they kinda ignored Hungary unfortunately, I don't mind a Burgundy-France so long as it would actually finish Francing it up(seriously, the releaseable vassals thing is kind of silly. There should be an event at least for France where if they diploannex their vassals, the old core is removed or something), and Britain just goes overseas because "gently caress this noise". Some awesome things, some unfortunate things.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 16:30
|
|
|
Beamed posted:Yeah, I feel very middling about it too. Netherlands formed, sweet, Austria (almost) got Bohemia, but they kinda ignored Hungary unfortunately, I don't mind a Burgundy-France so long as it would actually finish Francing it up(seriously, the releaseable vassals thing is kind of silly. There should be an event at least for France where if they diploannex their vassals, the old core is removed or something), and Britain just goes overseas because "gently caress this noise". Some awesome things, some unfortunate things. You really should not look at one game and assume that is the only way things can happen, nor do we want every game to develop the same way no matter how historical it is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:26
|
|
|
Vodos posted:Part 8 of the England LP (France is doing great oh god why do you keep joining that Austria-Hungary war?) Woah. The AI can offer to sell you provinces. Although I assume you still can't exploit them by offering to buy them. That's really cool. EDIT: It looks like Portugal sold the province it got off France to England, Austria sold theirs to the little French vassal state, and Denmark sold theirs back to France. That's really awesome. The AI must assessing if wants/can keep a province and selling it off if not. That is astoundingly cool. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:33
|
|
|
I remember there being a playable open beta of CK2 shortly before the actual release. Is there going to be the same thing for EU4?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:36
|
|
|
Kersch posted:I remember there being a playable open beta of CK2 shortly before the actual release. Is there going to be the same thing for EU4? There was a demo. I think that's what you're thinking of. I hope they do a EU4 demo, but it's getting awful close to release.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:38
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:Woah. The AI can offer to sell you provinces. Although I assume you still can't exploit them by offering to buy them. That's really cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
If I could make any request at all for the next CK2 patch, I would ask that the developers please allow us to use the "debug <events>" cheat that shows the event number tooltip when you hover your mouse over it, and the debug event logger cheat that outputs a log of game events. That way, it'd be so much easier for us modders to track down events and other things when our mods (inevitably) crash during gameplay.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
There's something stupid going on; I'm playing as Ethiopia again, now dealing with some one-off pretender rebels I got from a slider shift. I'm following them, and consistently winning battles, but I never inflict any casualties, so the sons of bitches just march to a different province and the whole thing becomes a scene from Benny loving Hill. It's ridiculous! Is this a glitch, or some intended behaviour I'm not aware of?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Wiz posted:You really should not look at one game and assume that is the only way things can happen, nor do we want every game to develop the same way no matter how historical it is. I know, I'm just observing how that particular game went. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:47
|
|
|
Wiz posted:You really should not look at one game and assume that is the only way things can happen, nor do we want every game to develop the same way no matter how historical it is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
Fintilgin posted:Woah. The AI can offer to sell you provinces. Although I assume you still can't exploit them by offering to buy them. That's really cool. Yep, the AI will sell provinces it has no possible use for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
I just hope Spain doesn't conquer North Africa forever and always, the Ottomans actually regularly Ottoman it up and we don't have Steppe Snakes. That'd be a drat good start.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:56
|
|
|
Hazamuth posted:I have had a lot of fun playing around with the "Shattered" start in CK2+ and Project Balance where every county starts independent. Is it possible to have or is there already some way to have this start for vanilla game? My multiplayer buddy isn't warming up very well to the idea of big mods so it would be nice to have something little to spice up our gaming sessions. There is, it was just talked about in the CK2 thread a day or two ago. Link is here. Just be aware however, if you're going to play it with regular un-modded CK2, pagans are stupidly powerful. Free unlimited conquest CB on all of your neighbors means that you very quickly end up with a snowball where you have 4 provinces and your neighbors still have a single one. Your conquests are basically limited by how long it takes to ship your armies around.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
Vodos posted:More videos! That was strangely soothing to watch, especially with the music. Is it me or did they re-record part of the soundtrack?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 19:26
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:This is true, but since those were sticking points in EU3 we're on the lookout for those in EU4. It's not that Burgundy must die, or that Austria must inherit Hungary and Bohemia - it's more that the engine should allow for certain types of monarchies (of which Burgundy is an example) to disintegrate and be inherited by neighbours, or that it should allow prestigious and powerful countries (like Austria) to sieze the territory of their losing neighbours to keep it from falling into the hands of religious enemies, or something like that. It would be nice for the mechanics to be fairly generic; I could see a "low coherence monarchy" mechanic working for Poland and Burgundy, where Poland's chronically low coherence causes its territory to regularly break off in little chunks, and Burgundy's extremely low coherence causes the monarchy to simply evaporate once the king dies. Basically, a limited dynastic system is really what's required to model the situation in Burgundy. What you would need to do would be something like this: 1: Dynasties are defined with main and sub branches. 2. They're all ranked, with the main branch of course being #1. 3. If a hereditary country* has its local dynasty die out, the country is inherited/put into a personal union with the country of the same dynasty with the highest prestige. Depending on country rank, this might switch the personal union around from how it would have been in EU3. (So a small German county would not inherit Denmark, but instead Denmark would inherit it for example.) 4. If the entire dynasty dies out, the top dynasty inherits their stuff. If that was the main line, the former #2 becomes the main line. 5. Some sort of compromise system, if the inheritance is going to upset the balance of power. Mods managed to do something like that in EU3, so it should be possible. *As opposed to the elective monarchies that are still kicking around in some number at the start of the game as I recall.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 19:32
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Burgundy wasn't even a monarchy though, it was the personal possessions of the ruler of the Duchy of Burgundy, but the dukes was still subordinate to France. (Not to mention a junior branch of the French royal family.) The king of France was the rightful heir to the French territories at least, it had nothing to do with the Burgundian realm being "low coherence" or anything. Even if Charles the Bold had somehow managed to be recognized as king, had he died before managing to create a male heir, the King of France would just become the King of France & Burgundy. Though of course pressing that claim would probably see an intervention, which might end up with the dissolution of the kingdom and a partition pretty similar to the one in history. (Assuming the Habsburgs still marry Mary.) Well yeah, but I wanted to dodge out on modeling dynastic stuff for the EU series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 19:34
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:Well yeah, but I wanted to dodge out on modeling dynastic stuff for the EU series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:18
|
|
|
In terms of IRL history, how close was "Germany" to forming prior to the 19th Century? Is the ability to unite Germany in EU3 as much of a pipe-dream as the ability to reconstitute Byzantium in Victoria 2? Also, what was the actual historical deal between Burgundy and France? I never even heard of Burgundy (except maybe as a geographic location) before EU3, but apparently Burgundy was strong enough to have stood up to France for a while and is represented in EU3 as a really strong land power. What's the context?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:I just hope Spain doesn't conquer North Africa forever and always, the Ottomans actually regularly Ottoman it up and we don't have Steppe Snakes. That'd be a drat good start. Also if Muslim Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, and (sometimes) Hungary would be less common, I would be pretty happy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 10:03 |
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:In terms of IRL history, how close was "Germany" to forming prior to the 19th Century? Is the ability to unite Germany in EU3 as much of a pipe-dream as the ability to reconstitute Byzantium in Victoria 2?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2013 20:50
|
|