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Darth Walrus posted:And you think that fascist propaganda doesn't treat The Jewish Conspiracy as an actual, really bad threat? I mean, I get that this show probably isn't fascist (the depiction of women as something other than baby-factories for the glorious Aryan master race is a bit of a hint), but that's a really bad counterargument. My point was that "The Jewish Conspiracy" didn't actually eat people.
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Jul 28, 2013 17:43
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
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Jul 28, 2013 18:07
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Pththya-lyi posted:I believe that all Aberrant Titans are secretly humans, and its their human intelligence that drives them to do stuff other than wander around and eat humans. I also think that Annie is the Female Titan and that she killed Sawney and Bean to preserve the Titans' secrets and continue to survive.  I'm still curious about the wall drawings in ED 2, especially the first and final one with the picture of two human sides facing off with men on horseback and cannons. Can't make out the banners on each side but there must be some major significance to it - we're seeing one side? The other developed Titans and won? Maybe the Titan technology was in that yellow box-thing in the middle of the battlefield? Then in the next montage, there's a sea with 2 layers of walled human habitation on one side; ships sailing towards them and a mountainous island in the sea itself; and humans battling and running from Titans on the other side, with cannons and a stronghold. Next, a scene with a cannon-guarded wall, soldiers in yellow/orange uniforms fighting Titans outside with what appears to be 3D motion gear, and on the far side, a captured Titan being transported by horses toward another inhabited walled area. Finally, a picture of huge dark totem-like figures and small white figures with wings reaching out their arms/swords towards their torsos/strange dot-and-box symbols - perhaps the ancient way to slay Titans? My random speculation is that there was an Old World which humans inhabited originally, then they crossed the sea and discovered Titans, but established a beachhead. (This doesn't explain the 2 layers of wall on the old world side, though.) Then in the new land, while fighting against the Titans, they split into 2 factions, discovered some secret to Titanhood, fought over it, then the victors crushed the losers with the Titan technology and sent them holing up in the 3-walled human colony of the show - maybe they brought the technology back to the old world to do this. The 3DMG is the resistance evolved to the Titan onslaught, albeit woefully insufficient, and Eren's dad's crew had obtained Titan technology - a blood serum made from a human-Titan or something - and was working for some faction to use it, but they're not the only ones who have it. So I'm guessing that we'll see the opposing side at some point, or at least their agents among this group of humanity.
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Jul 28, 2013 18:19
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other people posted:shonen stuff You know, I started watching this with my boyfriend because of all the talk about how this wasn't a shonen, that it was really dark and brutal, but from everything I've seen this is just an unusually gory shonen show (falling into the same category, as, say, Fullmetal Alchemist). This isn't necessary a bad thing; I'm really enjoying this show despite its faults. It's just disingenuous to build it up as something it isn't. The initial, most obvious shonen indicator is that pretty much everyone in the cast is a teenager. Everyone in the graduating class is 15, and I even read one age chart that said Levi was 17? There are adult characters, but they're relatively minor compared to the main cast (of kids). The least obvious part is (possible minor manga spoilers, tagging just in case) every major character in the story (with the exclusion of Levi) is part of the same graduating class, even to the point of being ridiculous. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the perspective in which Attack on Titan is told is the same sort of perspective that would appeal to Japanese middle school/high school students, that of you and your friends in your class and everyone else is irrelevant to your story.
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Jul 28, 2013 18:24
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NeilPerry posted:I had read the manga up to this point and I liked the style but all that bluntness is destroyed by (dramatic) anime speeches, unnecessary (and dramatic) internal monologues and all those other typical anime bullshit attempts at sentimentality. Srice posted:Combine that with rather shonen-y attempts to be emotional (I can understand the characters themselves mourning Marco, but as a viewer, he was an incredibly minor character who died like 4-5 episodes ago. I couldn't even tell you what his personality was) and it becomes tiring. suztan posted:You know, I started watching this with my boyfriend because of all the talk about how this wasn't a shonen, that it was really dark and brutal, but from everything I've seen this is just an unusually gory shonen show (falling into the same category, as, say, Fullmetal Alchemist).
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Jul 28, 2013 18:33
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It's a very well made shounen show. And the mix of horror, hope and comedy is nearly perfect.
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Jul 28, 2013 18:36
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suztan posted:You know, I started watching this with my boyfriend because of all the talk about how this wasn't a shonen, that it was really dark and brutal, but from everything I've seen this is just an unusually gory shonen show (falling into the same category, as, say, Fullmetal Alchemist). This isn't necessary a bad thing; I'm really enjoying this show despite its faults. It's just disingenuous to build it up as something it isn't. Not to disagree with your points, but Isayama mentioned at a fan signing event that Erwin is in his mid to late thirties, and Levi and Hanji are both in their thirties as well, with the latter being a couple of years younger than the former. But yes, the main cast besides them is all in their teens pretty much.
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Jul 28, 2013 18:46
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I don't see where everyone is saying the show drags so much. The only episodes I think could be comfortably condensed are 10-11, which were boring, but still a fairly minor sin compared to most shonen
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Jul 28, 2013 19:08
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Honestly it was made much worse by the week long wait between episodes. It's probably not as bad if you just started watching.
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Jul 28, 2013 19:19
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suztan posted:You know, I started watching this with my boyfriend because of all the talk about how this wasn't a shonen, that it was really dark and brutal, but from everything I've seen this is just an unusually gory shonen show (falling into the same category, as, say, Fullmetal Alchemist). This isn't necessary a bad thing; I'm really enjoying this show despite its faults. It's just disingenuous to build it up as something it isn't. Yeah, absolutely. Before it aired the show was hyped up as something where important characters frequently die. That hasn't really been the case. The most important death has been Eren's mom in the first episode, and it's hardly uncommon for a parent to be dead in a shonen series. The rest have been nameless mooks or characters who were just barely important enough to get a name before dying. I can't see Eren/Mikasa/Armin biting it anytime soon, and they haven't done a lot with most of the side characters; if they were to die it wouldn't be a big deal to me because the show hasn't been doing much with them (of the rest of the top 10 trainees, Jean is the only one to have gotten any sort of character development). I think a better way to sell this would have been saying that it's a shonen series with a grim setting. There's nothing wrong with that sort of thing and it's a lot better than selling the show as something it's not. re: pacing - Even some of the more action-heavy episodes have parts where the pacing suffers due to overexplaining things, such as the episode where Eren transformed to block a cannonball. It's the nature of the shonen anime beast, I suppose. e: VVV Heck, looking it up, it even runs in a shonen magazine, Bessatsu Shonen Magazine. And the creator originally pitched the series to Shonen Jump. Srice fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 20:02
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Srice posted:Yeah, absolutely. Before it aired the show was hyped up as something where important characters frequently die. That hasn't really been the case. The most important death has been Eren's mom in the first episode, and it's hardly uncommon for a parent to be dead in a shonen series. The rest have been nameless mooks or characters who were just barely important enough to get a name before dying. Ah, then my observation wasn't wrong. I also kept hearing about how un-anime this series was only for it to turn out very generic in execution. Nevertheless, I can enjoy this anime as a above-average shounen anime, but that's not how it was sold to me. EDIT: I just could do without explanation for absolutely everything. Especially things like that tiny part where some guy explains everyone's personal quirks and personality. I want to find that out for myself, through their actions. It's probably the worst thing about anime these days. NeilPerry fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 28, 2013 |
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Jul 28, 2013 20:10
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Srice posted:I know it's kinda silly to complain about shonen-esque dramatic speeches in a shonen anime, but they really clash with the tone the show is trying to set. I haven't read the manga but I imagine it's more bearable there as you can gloss over said speeches. With the anime you're forced to sit through them for several minutes instead of quickly reading it. From what I remember off the top of my head, half (or more?) of the stuff specifically added to the anime has been various shounen speeches. Srice posted:Before it aired the show was hyped up as something where important characters frequently die. That hasn't really been the case. Some of the hype has been pretty ridiculously overblown. It's too bad, it raised the expectations too high for some people. Going into this semi-blind would be much better.
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Jul 28, 2013 21:13
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I hope this isn't a repost, but I went through the backlog and couldn't find it, so here goes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTURHxDRTCo
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Jul 28, 2013 22:14
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darkgray posted:I hope this isn't a repost, but I went through the backlog and couldn't find it, so here goes. So it's Dustforce: The Anime?
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Jul 28, 2013 22:24
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So, as I finally get ready to actually start watching this and seeing what the hype's all about - is there a dub out, or is it subs all the way?
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Jul 28, 2013 22:50
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It hasn't even finished airing in Japan yet, so a dub is a long way off.
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Jul 28, 2013 22:57
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darkgray posted:I hope this isn't a repost, but I went through the backlog and couldn't find it, so here goes. Okay i'm literally in tears here. Spiritus Nox posted:So, as I finally get ready to actually start watching this and seeing what the hype's all about - is there a dub out, or is it subs all the way? Long long ways out.
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Jul 28, 2013 22:57
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Sakurazuka posted:It hasn't even finished airing in Japan yet, so a dub is a long way off. Ok, thanks. I'll just start with what's on Crunchyroll, then. Looking forward to it.
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Jul 28, 2013 22:58
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I don't really know how anime production works. 24 episodes is all the episodes this, and most shows, get right? As opposed to being decided based on popularity after the run?
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Jul 29, 2013 00:20
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I don't really know how anime production works. 24 episodes is all the episodes this, and most shows, get right? As opposed to being decided based on popularity after the run?
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Jul 29, 2013 00:27
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NeilPerry posted:I'm not getting into this at all. Everything except the giants themselves and the general concept is just outright cringeworthy. I just got to Mikasa's "I'm much stronger than all of you" speech and I can't take any of this serious anymore. I had read the manga up to this point and I liked the style but all that bluntness is destroyed by (dramatic) anime speeches, unnecessary (and dramatic) internal monologues and all those other typical anime bullshit attempts at sentimentality. Maybe I'm getting too old for this. Even though I've been watching the anime and enjoying it enough to at least continue watching it, I do agree that there are way too many dramatic internal monologues and what have you. The show could/should be moving much faster than it is, but it seems like it's going at a rate of about 1 chapter per episode. A faster pace without as many anime-ish melodramatic moments would do wonders for it.
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Jul 29, 2013 00:30
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I don't really know how anime production works. 24 episodes is all the episodes this, and most shows, get right? As opposed to being decided based on popularity after the run? Yeah, it's generally 12ish or 24ish episodes with any new season being announced sometime after the initial run is done airing, probably after they see how many DVD/blurays they sold. I'm not sure what, if anything, gets a show put into the category of something like One Piece with it's zillion episodes to match it's zillion volumes. Insane sales numbers maybe?
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Jul 29, 2013 00:30
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a kitten posted:Yeah, it's generally 12ish or 24ish episodes with any new season being announced sometime after the initial run is done airing, probably after they see how many DVD/blurays they sold. I'm not sure what, if anything, gets a show put into the category of something like One Piece with it's zillion episodes to match it's zillion volumes. Insane sales numbers maybe? Huh, alright. While I'm not going to spoil anything in this thread, If this season ends when I think it does, it's going to....definitely spur some people to read the manga, at the very least.
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Jul 29, 2013 00:36
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Srice posted:Yeah, absolutely. Before it aired the show was hyped up as something where important characters frequently die. That hasn't really been the case. The most important death has been Eren's mom in the first episode, and it's hardly uncommon for a parent to be dead in a shonen series. The rest have been nameless mooks or characters who were just barely important enough to get a name before dying. That's really weird that you mention that, because I almost feel like there have been more character deaths, even though looking back on it the only meaningful character death (that wasn't critical for setting up the Hero's Journey, Eren's mom) was Marco, but it was only meaningful in the context of Jean's character development. He didn't even get named until after he died. I would say that, even though a lot of people die, no characters die. NeilPerry posted:Ah, then my observation wasn't wrong. I also kept hearing about how un-anime this series was only for it to turn out very generic in execution. Nevertheless, I can enjoy this anime as a above-average shounen anime, but that's not how it was sold to me. Yeah, I heard that too. I don't know how someone could think that, seeing as this is being directed by the same guy who directed the Death Note adaptation, which could also be considered "un-anime" by the same metric that Titan is, but Death Note was still pretty "anime". The notion of whether something is "anime" or "un-anime" is vague and completely subjective, and it suggests that there is some unspoken requirement that all anime must be light and fluffy and harmless, which has never been the case, even before grimdark anime reached mainstream appeal with NGE, and it also assumes that grimdark brutal stuff is inherently better, than, say, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (which, by the way, had at least double the meaningful character deaths by about this time in its run). If JJBA had more blood and gore, would that be all it took to make it "un-anime"? Perhaps some people were worried that the shounen classification would turn people off, and so they felt that they needed to distance it from shounen as much as possible. Who even knows anyway, just enjoy your Chinese boy cartoons, folks. V  V
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Jul 29, 2013 00:43
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Ytlaya posted:Even though I've been watching the anime and enjoying it enough to at least continue watching it, I do agree that there are way too many dramatic internal monologues and what have you. The show could/should be moving much faster than it is, but it seems like it's going at a rate of about 1 chapter per episode. A faster pace without as many anime-ish melodramatic moments would do wonders for it. One chapter per episode isn't bad considering the chapters are ~45 pages compared to weekly chapters which are ~15 pages which absolutely kill One Piece's adaption atm. suztan posted:That's really weird that you mention that, because I almost feel like there have been more character deaths, even though looking back on it the only meaningful character death (that wasn't critical for setting up the Hero's Journey, Eren's mom) was Marco, but it was only meaningful in the context of Jean's character development. He didn't even get named until after he died. I would say that, even though a lot of people die, no characters die. I'm pretty sure Marco was introduced with the rest of the cast during the introductions at bootcamp.
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Jul 29, 2013 00:43
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a kitten posted:Yeah, it's generally 12ish or 24ish episodes with any new season being announced sometime after the initial run is done airing, probably after they see how many DVD/blurays they sold. I'm not sure what, if anything, gets a show put into the category of something like One Piece with it's zillion episodes to match it's zillion volumes. Insane sales numbers maybe? One Piece actually doesn't sell much in the way of DVDs/Blu-rays, but it airs at a sane time where the target audience (kids/teens) can actually watch it when it airs. With that sort of show ratings can actually matter, so between that plus all the merchandise sales the home video stuff is just money on the side. A nice bonus, but something that doesn't matter to them. Attack on Titan, on the other hand, airs at like 2 AM. The airing is considered an advertisement for the DVDs/Blu-rays (and the manga as well). Most stuff that gets a zillion episodes do so because they feel it has some sort of mainstream appeal. Shonen Jump stuff is a common choice, for example. And those zillion episode shows tend to air in the middle of the day instead of hella late at night. suztan posted:That's really weird that you mention that, because I almost feel like there have been more character deaths, even though looking back on it the only meaningful character death (that wasn't critical for setting up the Hero's Journey, Eren's mom) was Marco, but it was only meaningful in the context of Jean's character development. He didn't even get named until after he died. I would say that, even though a lot of people die, no characters die. Yeah that's a good way of putting it. I guess it's something a lot of people didn't want to specify because "lots of unimportant people die" is a thing that happens in plenty of shonen anime. Even DBZ would do that just to establish someone as a threat
Srice fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 00:46
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suztan posted:If JJBA had more blood and gore, would that be all it took to make it "un-anime"? Perhaps some people were worried that the shounen classification would turn people off, and so they felt that they needed to distance it from shounen as much as possible. JoJo's had people getting their arms and feet sliced off, people getting beaten to a bloody pulp, and people getting impaled on iron bars, though? I mean Attack on Titan's way more bloody but JoJo's is still pretty drat bloody!
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Jul 29, 2013 00:50
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TheKingofSprings posted:JoJo's had people getting their arms and feet sliced off, people getting beaten to a bloody pulp, and people getting impaled on iron bars, though? True, but Attack on Titan has the main character standing in the stomach of a titan surrounded by his masticated and half digested comrades, so...
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Jul 29, 2013 01:02
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TheKingofSprings posted:I mean Attack on Titan's way more bloody but JoJo's is still pretty drat bloody! But JoJo's is both in setting and presentation a lot more goofy. That's not a bad thing. JoJo's being so unabashedly goofy is one of the reasons I love it as much as I do. It's just that things being generally more silly makes even the gore aspects of it carry some of that tone. Titan on the other hand has a grimmer overall tone, so the gore feels generally darker even if it wasn't the horrible evisceration when a guy gets eaten. suztan posted:That's really weird that you mention that, because I almost feel like there have been more character deaths, even though looking back on it the only meaningful character death (that wasn't critical for setting up the Hero's Journey, Eren's mom) was Marco, but it was only meaningful in the context of Jean's character development. He didn't even get named until after he died. I would say that, even though a lot of people die, no characters die. I'm willing to give that death a little more weight than just that because it's half about Jean and half about developing the world itself, and not being named is part of that. Marco wasn't a hugely important character, but he was one of those secondary characters you sort of take for granted. He didn't have a funny, exploitable gimmick like what makes Sasha so popular, so he was less in the focus, but he was the sort of character you assume will always be around. Him dying with no fanfare or attention is how Jean develops, but it's also about showing us that thing simple things we would take for granted can be snatched away at any time, and that this is a world where you can die and no one will even notice unless you're particularly lucky. There's also that people die and it's permanent , but that might be less ubiquitous than high profile shonen has lead me to believe it is. The other shonen problems, like unnecessarily long monologues because natural character development is hard or we did natural character development but don't trust you to understand it, I do see. Mikasa's berserk rage against titans during the first Trost run was actually pretty nice until Armin started internal monologuing at the audience what it was supposed to mean.
onepixeljumpman fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 01:20
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onepixeljumpman posted:There's also that people die and it's permanent Eren "died" and came back, though. There is certainly more of a sense that death is permanent than you get in One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tail, or Dragon Ball. (Ironically enough, Naruto actually started as the kind of series where death was permanent; that changed near the end of Part 1.) On the other hand, Hunter X Hunter permanently kills off secondary characters every so often, and the aforementioned Jojo's Bizarre Adventure kills off a ton of major characters.
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Jul 29, 2013 01:37
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onepixeljumpman posted:Him dying with no fanfare or attention is how Jean develops, but it's also about showing us that thing simple things we would take for granted can be snatched away at any time, and that this is a world where you can die and no one will even notice unless you're particularly lucky. But we already got that several times before; first with Eren's mom, obviously, but many, many other unnamed secondary training graduates were unceremoniously separated with body parts. We already got the point that this is a cruel uncaring world (  ). Really the Marco scene made me wonder if I accidentally skipped an episode where Marco was introduced, not feel sad at pointless death.
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Jul 29, 2013 01:42
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So, I watched the first 5 episodes (and the first part of 6 until the Colossal Titan disappeared), and I have to say I'm buying into this pretty well so far. I really like the design of the titans, they're really unsettling (the way that one broke Eren's mom's back before eating her  ), and the 3d movement gear grapple hooks are really loving rad. I do hope they handle running alongside an ongoing manga well, though. I'd hate for it to either get an abrupt and unsatisfying ending or wander on into infinity ala a million Shounen series.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:19
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Total episode count has been confirmed as 25 (not counting episode 13.5 which was 100% recap). Which is good because I think if they had to run any longer the animators would start dropping like flies.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:28
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Srice posted:Total episode count has been confirmed as 25 (not counting episode 13.5 which was 100% recap). I take that to mean the animation has thus far remained loving amazing? Also, how often are new episodes released, and how many do we have right now? Crunchyroll's at 17, but I seem to remember it can take them some time to get episodes across the pond. VVV ...oh. 
Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 02:42
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Spiritus Nox posted:I take that to mean the animation has thus far remained loving amazing? No, it means the animators are struggling to make deadlines due to poor planning.
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Jul 29, 2013 02:50
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Silver2195 posted:No, it means the animators are struggling to make deadlines due to poor planning. Yeah, those early episodes look pretty great but after a little while they start cutting more corners on the action, there's more offmodel shots, and they recap much more often, that sort of thing. Anyways, it airs weekly and Crunchyroll gets it up shortly after each new episode so we're caught up with Japan. Srice fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jul 29, 2013 |
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Jul 29, 2013 02:58
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Paracelsus posted:A season is 12-13 episodes, and some series are planned out as 2-season series, but it's common for a show that's an adaptation of an existing work to only plan to do part of that work in its initial run and keep going in subsequent seasons if the promotional effect of the show is significant enough to warrant it. A season is not necessarily 12-13 episodes. That is commonly the case with anime, but it's not a rule.
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Jul 29, 2013 03:04
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One last thing I was wondering - has the show had any major divergences from the manga yet? Note that I haven't read the manga yet, so please don't spoil me.
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Jul 29, 2013 05:20
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Spiritus Nox posted:One last thing I was wondering - has the show had any major divergences from the manga yet? Note that I haven't read the manga yet, so please don't spoil me. Minor things were added and changed, mostly a couple of small speech additions and the shifting of when we see a couple of events, but it's looking so far like it follows it pretty closely.
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Jul 29, 2013 05:28
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TheKingofSprings posted:Minor things were added and changed, mostly a couple of small speech additions and the shifting of when we see a couple of events, but it's looking so far like it follows it pretty closely. Hm. Good to know. Thanks.
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Jul 29, 2013 05:31
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