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I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone posting all those cool lore tidbits. I backed this game, but know absolutely nothing about Shadowrun aside from... Well... Cyberware? So all those posts make awesome reading. Time to see if I can find a sourcebook to read like a novel now.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:32
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Aries posted:So, for the Emerald City Ripper: edit: I found out what's up with the million nuyen you get promised. You can ask him about it at the end, and he gives you your payment after "deductions" - 350,000 in damages, 325,000 in matrix upgrades, 300,000 in death benefits for dead security, 10,000 in recruiting costs for new security. Net payment, 15,000. If you get the payment up to 1.5 mil, then the deductions also somehow manage to be half a million higher in total as well. Boo, Mr. Telestrian. Boo. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 08:35
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USMC_Karl posted:I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone posting all those cool lore tidbits. I backed this game, but know absolutely nothing about Shadowrun aside from... Well... Cyberware? So all those posts make awesome reading. Time to see if I can find a sourcebook to read like a novel now. Many of the Shadowrun sourcebooks are really great reads. In the meantime, this doesn't have quite as much kick as the official materials but it will let you catch up on the setting a bit: http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
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Jul 31, 2013 08:39
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Strudel Man posted:You can use it on the puppets to free them. How do you trigger that dialogue? I would have been marginally happier with being screwed by an elf as opposed to seemingly forgetting about my pay. It would have totally fit the setting. Although, he's really being quite reasonable, considering how badly we wrecked his place.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:43
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Lurdiak posted:I'm gonna assume the earning rates and prices in this game aren't really representative, since I sure wasn't saving much money to buy luxuries like "food" by spending all my cash on desperately needed medkits, runners, and upgrades in my first two playthroughs. I know a Shadowrunner's life is pretty much living from run to run, but drat. In PnP you pay X nuyen a month for your lifestyle, which decides if you're squatting in a sewer tunnel or living the highlife in your downtime.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:51
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Lurdiak posted:How do you trigger that dialogue? I would have been marginally happier with being screwed by an elf as opposed to seemingly forgetting about my pay. It would have totally fit the setting. Although, he's really being quite reasonable, considering how badly we wrecked his place. Obviously, you also need to have gotten him to actually offer you the million, too.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:52
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USMC_Karl posted:I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone posting all those cool lore tidbits. I backed this game, but know absolutely nothing about Shadowrun aside from... Well... Cyberware? So all those posts make awesome reading. Time to see if I can find a sourcebook to read like a novel now. Did you check out the free primer Harebrained Schemes put out to introduce people to the world of Shadowrun? It's not as amazing as some of the sourcebooks or novels (from the former I definitely recommend Bug City as kind of a follow up to the game's themes and events, from the latter 2XS (and anything else Nigel Findley wrote) and Burning Bright) but it's free and readily available. Apparently some company is (was?) also selling sourcebooks as PDFs now.
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Jul 31, 2013 08:59
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USMC_Karl posted:I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone posting all those cool lore tidbits. I backed this game, but know absolutely nothing about Shadowrun aside from... Well... Cyberware? So all those posts make awesome reading. Time to see if I can find a sourcebook to read like a novel now. The lore's my favourite part, to the extent that I read the sourcebooks for fun. I've just finished revisiting the Tir Tairngire sourcebook as it happens. Nice to see Marie-Louise has done good for herself, she's head of the Biotechnology division of her father's corp circa 2054. Going by your avatar and big red text, you might want to dig up some of the stuff about the Kingdom of Hawai'i.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:01
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Wyld Karde posted:Nice to see Marie-Louise has done good for herself, she's head of the Biotechnology division of her father's corp circa 2054. But its 2054 in the game. 
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Jul 31, 2013 09:03
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Galaga Galaxian posted:But its 2054 in the game. Maybe this game takes place at the beginning of 2054?
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Jul 31, 2013 09:04
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Maybe daddy felt that putting her to work in an important position (she's basically answerable only to him) would distract her from her recent trauma? Or it could just be a case of playing a bit fast and loose with established canon to better serve the story. Maybe in the SR:R timeline Marie-Louise doesn't take up the job for another few years yet.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:07
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TerryLennox posted:Had Ehran shown up in the regular campaign and met Harlequin, you would have gotten a fight that would be optional boss worthy. Lore: Ehran and Harlequin apprenticed under the same teacher, learned science, fencing and such. Later on, they fought and IIRC Harlequin ended up cutting one of Erhan's ears off which made him the jester's mortal enemy. They fought another duel even later on and Harlequin won again so he kidnapped/claimed-as-bondswoman Erhan's daughter, Frosty. In their later years they ended up becoming friendly enough not kill each other on sight and Ehran never told Frosty that he was her father. Well, I'm not so sure. The way I read that adventure where all that goes down, it seemed more like their own way of getting in touch with each other again, and just keeping up appearances and renewing their friendship (also I seem to recall Harlequin let Ehran wound him to make things even in their second fight). Then again it's been years since I read all that.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:09
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As I recall, the Harlequin campaign which covers Harlequin's formal duel with Ehran was a year or two before the date of SR:R, so by this time the disupute is over as Harlequin has demonstrated his power of Ehran's past, present, future, spiritual and physical self, his hates and his loves (The immortal elves like to be thorough). If they'd met in game I'd expect Harlequin to make a few jokes at Ehran's expense perhaps, and for Ehran to be rather short with Harlequin, but I doubt very much that they'd be going for each other's throats. Especially not in the face of the unexpected early arrival of the invidae.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:16
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I have to admit, I don't really like Harlequin. The whole...everything about him feels kind of forced.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:21
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I think the key to Harlequin is his sense of mockery. He's been around since the fourth world, he knows all the power brokers and the closets where their skeletons and dirty laundry are kept. He's smart enough not to openly threaten anyone, but he's not afraid to make a jibe just to prick their sense of pomposity. Of course, given his tragic early life, that mockery extends to himself as well. "I was once like you, wielding great power and trying to hold the world safe in my grasp. Look what happened." Hence the face paint and exagerrated mannerisms, he's sending himself up as well as those around him. His is the laughter of one who laughs because he chooses not to weep.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:27
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Strudel Man posted:I have to admit, I don't really like Harlequin. The whole...everything about him feels kind of forced. But Shadowrun itself is an unbelievably cheesy kitchen sink of late'80s / early '90s science fiction and D&D, where Japan imposed its currency on the world and people wear biker jackets and hacking is computer wizardry and The Man is keeping you down. So you know, Harlequin's just part of the whole schtick.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:27
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Yeah, but I like most of the schtick. Harlequin just doesn't feel like he fits, or like anything remotely genuine. It's one thing for people to get all glammed up in bouffant hairstyles and goth makeup in preparation for their assault on a corporate HQ, since that's the style of the times. But nothing about Harlequin actually fits into that. He's an immortal elf who dresses like a medieval jester who everyone takes super seriously when he's dripping clown facepaint all over the God-King-CEO's desk. He could fit into something, but he feels utterly bizarre and out of place in Shadowrun. At some point, I just have to think that one of the transcendent beings he pals around with would give him a little nudge and say like, "C'mon, buddy. Give it a rest."
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Jul 31, 2013 09:36
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NihilCredo posted:He's definitely a very late-'80s / early '90s / Neil Gaiman idea of a "cool" character, so it's inevitable that he feels really cheesy and forced in 2013. I think that's unfair to Neil Gaiman. He's a bit closer to some horrible clown amalgam of John Constantine and loving Elminster, for my money. I just don't see anything likeable about the guy, and while I've not read much material with him in it, I can see why some people were dismayed when the kickstarter updates promised he'd appear. His appearance in the game is... fine, I suppose, although Jake returning would have been far more interesting, no matter how gimped he is. But as a character, he's garbage. Much like Elminster, he feels like a character that's practically a self-insert and gets shoved into lots of important stuff only because his creator thinks he's so cool. And he has that insufferable "oh I'm so above these dreary proceedings" attitude that implies he's secretly so important that everyone puts up with him and thus you should think he's cool, but it doesn't really work. It just makes everyone who tolerates him seem like an idiot. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 09:40
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Strudel Man posted:You can use it on the puppets to free them. If you aren't greedy up until the very end (as in, act like you just want to save the world), you can make the same amount of money you would get if Sam hadn't stiffed you if that's what you ask for your reward. Possibly after asking for a certain badge.
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Jul 31, 2013 09:43
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I don't think he's a self-insert, if only because there's almost nothing about him that actually comes across as a 'self.' He's a big misshapen sack of stylistic flair without really any kind of a core humanity.Lurdiak posted:And he has that insufferable "oh I'm so above these dreary proceedings" attitude that implies he's secretly so important that everyone puts up with him and thus you should think he's cool, but it doesn't really work. evilmiera posted:If you aren't greedy up until the very end (as in, act like you just want to save the world), you can make the same amount of money you would get if Sam hadn't stiffed you if that's what you ask for your reward. Possibly after asking for a certain badge. edit: Actually, looking at that conversation in the editor, it doesn't look like you even get the 15,000 from your million minus deductions. You can give him your credstick to accept the payment, but it doesn't actually add anything. Double boo. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 09:45
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I would invent a time machine to retroactively become an English teacher of whoever wrote Life on a Limb, and flunk them out of the class. Or beat some literary sense into them, whichever.  e: Or a teacher of any of the Humanities, because  some of this dialogue.
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Jul 31, 2013 10:31
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Protagorean posted:I would invent a time machine to retroactively become an English teacher of whoever wrote Life on a Limb, and flunk them out of the class. Or beat some literary sense into them, whichever. I was already being put off playing it by the reports of the kitchen-sink approach to incidental dialogue and just overwhelming the player with stuff, but having seen the screenshot which manages to combine racism and textbook Gamer Sexism with just flat-out bad writing, I'm fairly sure I'm never going to go near it.
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Jul 31, 2013 11:07
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John Charity Spring posted:I was already being put off playing it by the reports of the kitchen-sink approach to incidental dialogue and just overwhelming the player with stuff, but having seen the screenshot which manages to combine racism and textbook Gamer Sexism with just flat-out bad writing, I'm fairly sure I'm never going to go near it. Quality right here   He is also an asian. You must be close friends. It really sucks rear end because the whole thing feels like it has a lot of promise, but god almighty this writing, not only how oddly bigoted it flies into out of nowhere, but just how alien it feels sometimes as well. Thanks Life on a Limb, the (Sexually Transmitted Disease) bracket next to STD in a random sentence was super helpful, I'm sure that'll educate someone, somewhere who doesn't know what an STD is. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 11:26
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Strudel Man posted:I don't think he's a self-insert, if only because there's almost nothing about him that actually comes across as a 'self.' He's a big misshapen sack of stylistic flair without really any kind of a core humanity. Odd, I distinctly remember the 100k being added. You sure you didn't ask for money earlier on?
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Jul 31, 2013 11:40
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Yardbomb posted:Quality right here Not a fan of the full-out swearing either. Fictional swearing can be grating but it seems pretty well established that in Shadowrun - at least in Seattle 'American English' - no-one says poo poo or gently caress.
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Jul 31, 2013 11:50
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So about how long is the main campaign?
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Jul 31, 2013 11:52
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JohnsonsJohnson posted:So about how long is the main campaign? In terms of hours? I'd give it 10 to 16 depending on difficulty.
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Jul 31, 2013 11:57
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John Charity Spring posted:Not a fan of the full-out swearing either. Fictional swearing can be grating but it seems pretty well established that in Shadowrun - at least in Seattle 'American English' - no-one says poo poo or gently caress. Unless it's Shadowrun 4E where, for a brief moment, they decided that even in the far cyberfuture of 2070 it was highly unlikely the word "gently caress" would suddenly have gone out of fashion. But hey, he used "slitch" so immersion preserved.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:00
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John Charity Spring posted:Not a fan of the full-out swearing either. Fictional swearing can be grating but it seems pretty well established that in Shadowrun - at least in Seattle 'American English' - no-one says poo poo or gently caress. Yeah, that actually bugged me a teeny bit even in the main story where they slip that rare once or twice. Not so much the swearing part, but if you're dedicated to making a big ambitious thing for Shadowrun, which is gonna try to include a lot of the lore bits, then try to at least get the language and setting's slang right.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:01
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I have a few questions about Shadowrun metaphysics, specifically about ghosts. Do they exist? Is it a semi-regular thing that if someone dies they can show back up as a ghost? Do ghosts from before the awakening of magic exist? What kind of powers do Shadowrun ghosts have? Can they function as poltergeists or possess people? Can ghosts possess computers? If you have a shitload of cyberware and an essence of 1, can you still show up as a ghost? Any difference between ghosts in Europe and Asia (ie hungry dead)? Are ghosts considered spirits and thus can mages/shamen do whatever they want with them? Is there a Hell or Hades-like plane that ghosts go to? If there is a sourcebook that I should pick up, I'm all ears.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:12
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Well, there's a ghost in the bar... he only shows himself to runners of a certain quality, though. 
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Jul 31, 2013 12:20
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I'm not sure if it's been covered to the level of detail you're asking, but yes there are ghosts in Shadowrun. Or possibly astral beings who could be mistaken for ghosts. The Shatterglades in Chicago spring to mind. When the Sears Tower was brought down by racists looking to pin the blame on metahumans it levelled several blocks of the city, which to this day remain haunted by what appear to be the spirits of those unjustly killed in this monstrous act. Remaining in the area with your sanity intact is no mean feat. During the Bug City breakout when the hive under the Chicago Universal Brotherhood chapter went into full Queen eruption mode and the city was sealed off by the military, the Shatterglades was one of the few places where the bugs didn't have free reign. They just didn't want to go there. So on the one hand, if you're one of the poor slots trapped inside the wall then this is one of the few places you can sack down without worrying about something eating your head before morning. If only it weren't for those sanity eroding spirits, whatever they actually are. As for ghosts possessing people, I'd like to draw your attention to the Shedim.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:25
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Helical Nightmares posted:I have a few questions about Shadowrun metaphysics, specifically about ghosts. There's no real afterlife unless you count wherever on the Astral plane that souls or spirits torn from the real world might go. Or at the very least, none is spoken of in any detail. Far as anyone knows, ghosts or the spirits who fake them didn't exist before the Awakening, at least not in that Age on the physical plane. There's mention somewhere I think of Lone Star hiring a mage to talk at a recently deceased person to see what they might impart, but I'm not so certain about that.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:41
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The short version is ghosts exist in Shadowrun but they aren't really all that exciting, they're basically just "psychic echoes." Some magical traditions that conjure Spirits of Man claim that those spirits are the spirits of the departed but this isn't anything objectively true, that's just what that magical tradition believes and since tradition does shape one's magic then their spirits may actually resemble ghosts of the departed being called up to perform services, but that doesn't mean those traditions actually have a hotline to the afterlife. And in point of fact there is no verifiable afterlife. Do people go someplace when they die? Nobody knows but don't worry, you'll find out for yourself sooner or later. Recent editions of the game don't seem to list ghosts in their paracritter chapter, or at least I'm not finding them. So back we go to the hallowed days of 2nd Edition, when guns had their own concealment ratings and "wi-fi" was a thing nobody had heard of yet. quote:Ghosts There's more, it goes on for a bit. tl'dr, you have specters and apparitions. Apparitions are essentially illusions. They can affect the senses, they're visible and frequently audible, but can't really affect the living world any. Generally these are assumed to be the product of a gruesome death and they spend most of their time reliving their actions prior to their last moments and/or trying to communicate with the living. Specters are more independent in action, can actually affect the living world...including hurting people...and display more of a personality which feeds the argument that they're actually the souls of the departed, but not to any verifiable degree. Specters can have all sorts of motivations, from imparting information to revenge to protecting their family or a place...basically whatever. A dude's essence has nothing to do with their chances of coming back as a ghost. As far as powers go they don't seem to be able to possess people but can compel them to do things like recreating the spirits' last actions, use psychokinesis to huck stuff, cause supernatural fear, paralyze with a touch, but the entry says these are all "unverified" which is RPG code for "do whatever you want, man." It mentions that magicians can "exorcise" them using banishment as if they were spirits but I don't think you can summon them directly per the rules...but Shadowrun's fiction and its rules have never been 100% eye to eye so I'd peg it as a maybe. There's also a tidbit about ghostly evidence not being admissible in a court of law but how an occult detective used help from a serial killer's victim's ghost to find tangible evidence that led to the killer's conviction. e; also to be extra pedantic, it's actually the Shattergraves in Chicago, not the Shatterglades. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jul 31, 2013 |
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Jul 31, 2013 12:45
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Anyone having a problem with skills unlocked on your character sheet not showing up in combat? edit: specifically seems to affect skills above level 6.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:56
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Aries posted:Anyone having a problem with skills unlocked on your character sheet not showing up in combat? Are you using pistols? Revolvers aren't compatible with most of the pistol skills for some reason.
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Jul 31, 2013 12:58
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Comrade Question posted:Are you using pistols? Revolvers aren't compatible with most of the pistol skills for some reason. That's because most of the high end pistol skills involve the sort of rapid firing cycle you'd only get from an automatic. Revolvers get a higher rate of damage to compensate. If you're a dedicated pistolier, pack both and switch accordingly.
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Jul 31, 2013 13:01
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Thanks a lot for all your responses guys. Looks like there is some narrative flexibility.
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Jul 31, 2013 13:11
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John Charity Spring posted:Not a fan of the full-out swearing either. Fictional swearing can be grating but it seems pretty well established that in Shadowrun - at least in Seattle 'American English' - no-one says poo poo or gently caress. I always found the Shadowrun "bad words" to be pretty stupid. It's one thing if you have new words that make sense along with modern slang, but when you replace gently caress with frak or frag, you're really destroying linguistic suspension of disbelief. We've been saying gently caress for what, six hundred or so years? I don't think it's ever gonna go out of style. Someone else mentioned that 4E switched to irl swearing and I think this is one of the many things 4E did right. Nobody's gonna just up and decide that "rear end is so 2020, let's all start saying hoop instead for some unfathomable reason."
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Jul 31, 2013 13:21
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I think the best solution to the slang problem is to simply have them coexist together. I mean, people say things like "fragging" or "frigging" or "flipping" in real life along with "gently caress," but gently caress is in no way going to just up and vanish because magic came back. "gently caress" is the simple machine of profanity, it's always going to be with us. Dunno what the deal with "hoop" is though, that's just dumb.
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Jul 31, 2013 13:27
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