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legendsuper posted:If Saionji's not the killer, she has at least something big to hide. Saionji definitely isn't the killer. If she was, the player would be the one coming to that conclusion and making the accusation. Instead, we're having the accusation fed to us by somebody else, which means we're going to have to disprove it before long. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 20:14
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I reckon Kuzuryuu did do it, and Peko is simply wrong/ignorant. He's just lapping it up and letting the girls accuse each other.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:14
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orenronen posted:Do you know that Saionji did today? Typo here - should say "what Saionji did".
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Aug 14, 2013 20:15
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As Peko mentioned, Kuzuryuu's too obvious a suspect. If she just let them accuse him, there's a good chance that someone would wonder why he didn't seem to even try to hide the fact that he's a culprit, which could lead them to discuss it until they realized he's so obvious because he's a red herring. If Saionji's suspected first, then even if Kuzuryuu's gets suspected, she could justify his obviousness by saying it was because he was just that bad at framing Saionji and not because someone wanted to frame him. This works even if Kuzuryuu isn't an accomplice. Also, thanks to DR1 Ch. 2, we know there needs to be four people who realized Koizumi was dead when the body announcement went off, the culprit and three witnesses. We know Souda was the last witness, and it's a fair bet to guess that Saionji and Kuzuryuu were two of the other three, but who was the fourth, and why would they hide their involvement? CandyCrazy fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 20:19
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Apollove posted:Yeah you see there's something bothering me about that. If Peko did indeed kill Koizumi, why would she try and shift attention away off of Kuzuryuu? Like, wouldn't it make more sense to get kuzuryuu pinned down so that she'd go free? I think there's something here we're missing, her actions aren't making sense. If it was her, she probably saw Saioniji there, or maybe she found clues to such during the investigation; there being more evidence to it (and taking a more subtle approach than pointing at whoever is the most likely suspect at the time in a "oh well that makes sense, let's say it's that guy, just don't point at me!" way) would help her case and draw attention away from her. Of course it could also be that she isn't the killer, and instead just, well, like I said, found some evidence suggesting it being her (plus things like her always hanging out with the victim, and maybe just not liking Saioniji), and so came up with her own theory.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:19
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Opposing Farce posted:Saionji definitely isn't the killer. If she was, the player would be the one coming to that conclusion and making the accusation. Instead, we're having the accusation fed to us by somebody else, which means we're going to have to disprove it before long.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:30
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CandyCrazy posted:
If I remember in DR1, only 2 people had to discover a body for the announcement to go off. It's 3 people in this game, probably for this case too. Still not quite sure if I want to suspect Peko yet. It doesn't seem very smart to bring up the logical trap against Kuzuryuu just to accuse someone else when everyone coulda just accused him and get away with it. I wonder if this would be a weird double reversal and Kuzuryuu actually did do it. That'd be an interesting twist, dunno if it'll be that way though.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:32
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CandyCrazy posted:Thanks to DR1 Ch. 2, we know there needs to be four people who realized Koizumi was dead when the body announcement went off, We know nothing of the sort. There's no indication one way or the other of if the culprit counts towards the three people limit; chapter 2 of DR1's has no indication either, since Mondo's "discovery" was after the announcement. It was Togami, Naegi and Ishimaru who were the first three to find Chihiro.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:33
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I'm not saying the culprit counts toward the Dead Body Announcement. In fact, I'm arguing the exact opposite, that they don't count toward it. That's why I'm saying that there has to be a minimum of four people that know there's a victim instead of three, unless the culprit doesn't even realize they killed someone, or in Sakura's case, was the victim themself. In DR1 Ch.2, there were four people who knew Chihiro was dead before the announcement went off. Togami, Naegi and Ishimaru, who found the body before Monobear announced it, and Mondo, because he's the one who killed the kid in the first place. He wouldn't need to go back to the crime scene to know that. Now revisiting the crime scene is a whole other matter, but that wouldn't be necessary for what I'm arguing, since I doubt anyone went back to the beach house after leaving. CandyCrazy fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 20:42
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Man, I really hope that little poo poo is the killer so Monobear can off her. I should feel bad about wanting a little girl dead but she just gets on my nerves. I actually think we should not discount Saionji as the killer just because we were not the ones suggesting her. Somebody else will most likely be the prime suspect before we know who really was the culprit, but I would not be surprised if we find out Saionji really is the killer.
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Aug 14, 2013 20:56
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Apollove posted:Yeah you see there's something bothering me about that. If Peko did indeed kill Koizumi, why would she try and shift attention away off of Kuzuryuu? Like, wouldn't it make more sense to get kuzuryuu pinned down so that she'd go free? I think there's something here we're missing, her actions aren't making sense. fake edit: beaten to this point, kinda. She's shifting it off Kuzuryuu to seem "helpful", but more importantly because there's not a whole lot of evidence against him, and there's more against Saionji. Between the letter, the footprints, and the gummy (some of this evidence is likely placed by Peko), that's a lot of clues to suggest Saionji and it'd make perfect sense for Peko to try and convince everyone that Saionji is the culprit. If she kept pushing for Kuzuryuu in the beginning then people would bring up inconsistencies, or the other evidence that points to Saionji, or a different culprit. Then Peko would appear suspicious for going after him. Ramengank fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 21:01
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Warmal posted:I still am not sure who the culprit is, but some of this seems pretty obvious. Okay, I can buy that the killer framed Saionji and made it look like someone was framing Kuzuryuu (who'd expect a double frame job!), but if Saionji was framed, how were the footprints faked?
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Aug 14, 2013 21:20
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I don't think the footprints are faked. She still hasn't said that she was there, she still denying any involvement at all. Actually, there still hasn't been a definitive killer of E-ko either now that I think of it. They only suggested That Kuzuryuu/F-suke did it. It still could've been someone else there too.
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Aug 14, 2013 21:40
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Okay, I can buy that the killer framed Saionji and made it look like someone was framing Kuzuryuu (who'd expect a double frame job!), but if Saionji was framed, how were the footprints faked? I don't think they were faked. Saionji was indeed at the beach house that day, and fell into the trap the true kill laid for her. Why she hasn't been truthful thus far has me at a loss though.
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Aug 14, 2013 21:41
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I suspect that Saionji was there, because she has an excuse for the footprints, instead of outright denying them like the letter, so she knows the footprints are authentic.
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Aug 14, 2013 21:45
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Saionji must have a reason for lying about the footprints. Maybe something happened at the beachhouse between her and Koizumi she doesn't want the others to know?
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Aug 14, 2013 21:52
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I'd been thinking about this for a while, but I just realized while looking through the previous evidence than it couldn't have been Saionji in the closet.quote:Evidence Bullet Get posted: The gummy found in the closet was lemon-flavored, which aren't in the package. Saionji was obviously there to talk to Koizumi about something (maybe to discuss their involvement in Twilight Syndrome?) but she wasn't hiding to startle her. My bet is that Koizumi finally told her off for being such an awful person and that's why she ran off crying.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:22
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Sweet Earthbound reference, Gundam.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:24
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I just read through Dangan Ronpa LP 1 and 2 and I just wanted to thank you for translating. Oh and Saionji totally didn't do it. Maybe our SHSL gangster is behind this?
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Aug 14, 2013 22:29
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tentawesome posted:Gummy-stuff Yeah, we figured that out when they made a point of telling us that she only eats the gummies in a certain set.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:30
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Welp, it's gotta be Peko now. Not only that, it seems like she has an interest in protecting Kuryuzuu, or she'd have let them continue talking him up as a suspect. But here we see the somewhat elegant frame job on Saonji, how it basically has to be a frame-up given how Peko's theory contradicts several pieces of evidence (the body being moved, the gummi not being one of Saonji's flavors, the letter not conforming at all to Saonji's style). And Peko having all this ready to go seems to suggest she's the one that did the frame-up at least. And why would she unless she's the true killer? I have an idea what her motive might be, but it's a huge stretch, and besides, motive doesn't matter.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:34
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Torrannor posted:Man, I really hope that little poo poo is the killer so Monobear can off her. I should feel bad about wanting a little girl dead but she just gets on my nerves. Saionji's one of my favorite characters so far, just because she isn't even trying to hide who she is. Besides, I'm seriously doubting her being the killer. I'm sure she was at the beach house due to her footprints and all, although she was probably shoved in the closet or something; whether it be conscious or unconscious, like Hinata pointed out she could use as her "hiding" place.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:34
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I don't think it's going to be the actual Kirakira-chan. We had a famous serial killer in the last one and I doubt they would use the same plot device twice. Unless they're expecting us to think that. Then it could definitely be the same thing again. After all, it would be what we least expect. Really enjoyed the Phoenix Wright reference, by the way.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:42
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CandyCrazy posted:More importantly though, Phoenix Wright reference. Indeed.  Peko sounds suspicious, but as others have said, it would be pretty stupid of her to shift blame when it's not even on her in the first place. If it really is Sonia as the murderer, this Kirakira talk in the next update should pin her down.
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Aug 14, 2013 22:59
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Suspicious Cook posted:Indeed. Not necessarily. Perhaps Peko just knew that it would be too easy to poke holes in Kuzuryuu as the culprit theory and thought it was best to push it to the one she framed before everyone else had a chance to think about the clues and notice certain things (such as the water bottles in the trash).
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Aug 14, 2013 23:13
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CandyCrazy posted:Speaking of Ibuki, Gundam may be my favorite character, but she's the one I want to make it to the final trial. She's so hyper and energetic, every reaction is a blast to listen to. Well, my meta-senses are telling me that her personality is an obfuscating cover for a far higher level of intelligence than she wants to let on. At this point, my odds on her are: 80% becoming a murderer, 15% surviving to the end, 5% becoming a murder victim. She's just way too upbeat and representative of a hopeful future to not be horribly subverted. Apollove posted:Yeah you see there's something bothering me about that. If Peko did indeed kill Koizumi, why would she try and shift attention away off of Kuzuryuu? Like, wouldn't it make more sense to get kuzuryuu pinned down so that she'd go free? I think there's something here we're missing, her actions aren't making sense. Actually, it does make a lot of sense. Saionji was clearly being set-up from the very beginning and what's the best way to frame someone? Make it look like they were trying to frame someone else. By redirecting suspiscion from Kuzuryuu to Saionji, she makes herself look as though she's trying to accuse the 'right' person, which is the attitude that someone trying not to get themselves executed for voting for the 'wrong' culprit should be taking. It's a clever gambit to use on people who aren't thinking more than one gambit ahead. Using the meta-logic that someone who has remained in the back-ground, or at least the mid-ground, up to a point who suddenly comes to the fore-ground and begins trying to take control of the conversation is very likely to be the culprit directing suspicion towards someone else (it was at the point when Celes began accusing 'Justice-Robo' i.e. Hagakure, when my suspicions about Celes being the culprit went from 70% to 100%), I'm 95% certain the Peko is the culprit now. She's pushing hard on the gummi issue, which by this point I'm certain that most of us are certain is a red herring, and those who push red herrings, well... My only doubts are about how she managed to get out the window by herself, when Saionji had originally set-up her meeting with Koizumi for, and how the KiraKira mask play into things. Having said that, they are large enough doubts to push my doubt margin from 1% to 5%.
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Aug 14, 2013 23:18
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If Peko is the culprit and wants to protect Kuzuryuu then why the hell would she shift the blame to Sanoji instead of admitting she did it? If everyone voted for Saionni Kuzuryuu would die. If she had done it on behalf of Kuzuryuu she'd be admitting to it right now.
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Aug 14, 2013 23:22
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Who What Now posted:If Peko is the culprit and wants to protect Kuzuryuu then why the hell would she shift the blame to Sanoji instead of admitting she did it? If everyone voted for Saionni Kuzuryuu would die. If she had done it on behalf of Kuzuryuu she'd be admitting to it right now. I think another thing is, if Kuzuryuu asked Peko to kill Koizumi, why not just admit from the start that she did it? Especially when suspicion was heavily favoring him as the murderer.
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Aug 14, 2013 23:29
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Exactly. Whatever motive for the murder, it was purely selfish. Another thing I thought of; what if Saionji tried to frame herself by leaving a gummi she didn't eat, giving her a false flag that she could deny? It's a longshot, but not outside the realm of possibility. -EDIT- Made myself more clear. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Aug 14, 2013 |
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Aug 14, 2013 23:36
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That makes sense. So Peko's moving suspicion to Saonji because she believes Saonji's a better patsy than Kuryuzuu, and besides, she went to all this trouble to frame her.
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Aug 15, 2013 00:38
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Wait... are there two framejobs going on here simultaneously? Saionji's obviously been set up by someone, but Kuzuryuu's status as a suspect hasn't been completely wiped clean, either. I'm not even sure if he didn't kill his sister's killer pre-DR2, for that matter, but it feels like the fall-out from playing the video game has to figure into things and it's been implied he beat the game before anybody else.
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Aug 15, 2013 02:27
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Bisensual posted:I don't think it's going to be the actual Kirakira-chan. We had a famous serial killer in the last one and I doubt they would use the same plot device twice. Unless they're expecting us to think that. Then it could definitely be the same thing again. After all, it would be what we least expect. Also sort of meta, but I also think it'd be really cool to subvert the "serial killer among us" trope from the first game in a way people may not expect. DR1: In the second case it's revealed that a serial killer is among the students, but she never kills while in the school so she lasts until the very end. DR2: In the second case it's revealed that a serial killer is among the students, bu - oh, she killed someone? Yeah, she gets executed for it at the end of the case.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:09
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TKMobile posted:Wait... are there two framejobs going on here simultaneously? Saionji's obviously been set up by someone, but Kuzuryuu's status as a suspect hasn't been completely wiped clean, either. I'm not even sure if he didn't kill his sister's killer pre-DR2, for that matter, but it feels like the fall-out from playing the video game has to figure into things and it's been implied he beat the game before anybody else. Kuzuryuu's "framejob" isn't so much framing as it is a Monobear-given motive for murder - the Twilight Syndrome game. There's literally no evidence placing him at or near the murder scene except for Hinata and Souda's early sighting of him. Saionji, on the other hand, was clearly framed on purpose by somebody who intended her to take the fall. Peko is quickly becoming more and more suspicious simply because she's pushing way too hard for Saionji to be the culprit, even though she's previously been a fairly reserved character. orenronen posted:
Foreshadowing for a future killer?
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Aug 15, 2013 04:10
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S...Somehow, I...I think I can understand her.
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Apollo Justice posted:I don't think they were faked. Saionji was indeed at the beach house that day, and fell into the trap the true kill laid for her. Why she hasn't been truthful thus far has me at a loss though. Because she's a spiteful little poo poo would be my main guess, frankly. At this point I personally discount Saionji, Kuzuryuu, and Pekoyama as viable suspects. That leaves me at a loss for who it actually is, though, aside from the off chance it's Sonia trying to stir up KiraKira business.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:21
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timpanihilistic posted:Also sort of meta, but I also think it'd be really cool to subvert the "serial killer among us" trope from the first game in a way people may not expect. This wouldn't surprise me really. DR2 has been throwing you familiar looking elements like Togami, and Komaeda, messing around with your expectations. After mentioning Genocider Syo and the new serial killer, Kira-kira, they must be planning to change things up.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:23
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Argh, the suspicion continues to mount against Peko. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any discussion on KiraKira, which is pretty much the deciding factor here. I'm all but ready to write this one off as Peko being the murderer, though.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:24
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Usually when someone starts acting like this, they're the killer. Sayonara, Peko. You were one of the more unremarkable characters. Maybe you'll change that before your execution!
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Aug 15, 2013 04:34
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Honestly, I think Peko is the most suspicious now, but with Mikan talking about understanding the feelings of a killer, I get the urge to create a theory where she's the culprit for this case. To start with, we've been basically ignoring the possibility that she and Ibuki could be the culprits, since they showed up together before the beach party. But when I went to look back at it, Mikan had a really odd line that I don't think was ever explained. This is when Hinata and Naegi are chatting with Kuzuryuu outside, and Ibuki and Mikan show up:orenronen posted:
What was she going on about here? Is she directing this at Kuzuryuu? Could it have something to do with the content of the game? It's not explicitly stated that F-suke killed E-ko in the game, what if somehow Ibuki and Mikan's characters (A-ko and C-ko, I think?) were the actual killers, and planned on killing D-ko next? There's been talk of needing an accomplice to get through the window to the beach house, perhaps these two worked together? The killer was in her swimsuit, killed Koizumi, washed off with the water bottles, planted the evidence to frame Saionji, then changed into her regular clothes somewhere outside the beach house, then walked together to the meeting with her accomplice. Afterwards, Mikan "finds" the letter on Koizumi's body, when she actually planted it all along. Not sure where the mask fits in - maybe Mikan herself is Kirakira-chan? Honestly, this is a stretch, but I think we've been a bit too hasty in looking away from these two.
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Aug 15, 2013 04:42
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I won't let you get away this time!!
Waaaaaah! I got too nervous again and said something weird!
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Captain Oblivious posted:Usually when someone starts acting like this, they're the killer. Or Togami after a rousing game of "Move the Corpse".
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Aug 15, 2013 04:44
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The killer has to be female to keep parity. If three men died it wouldn't be balanced. Now excuse me while I brush my teeth exactly one hundred times on a side.
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