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FoolyCharged posted:kind of like squadsight and gunslinger? No, not in the slightest. Snapshot + Squadsight would allow you to move and shoot at infinite range and use Double Tap or ITZ at the same time. Gunslinger obviously doesn't do all that.
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Sep 8, 2013 23:10
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They could have made it so you could only use Squadsight if you didn't move that turn
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Sep 8, 2013 23:19
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FoolyCharged posted:kind of like squadsight and gunslinger? Wait, you can squad sight with a pistol? I should stop taking DGG 
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Sep 8, 2013 23:29
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quiggy posted:Wait, you can squad sight with a pistol? I should stop taking DGG No, but Gunslinger on a Plasma Pistol gives you the same damage as an LPR for when you need to move, plus the Plasma Sniper Rifle for when you don't.
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Sep 8, 2013 23:37
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The point I was trying to make was that currently snipers being able to fulfill a unique role, while still having what functions as a superior assault rifle with gunslinger makes them rather overpowered. Yes, I do realize that squadsight + snapshot could be abused worse, but it would at least lock the sniper into a long range role with limited close range options, and the aiming penalty on snapshot would make sense. Granted my stance largely revolves around the premise of "that's squadsight's fault", but I feel that 90% of people who play the game would agree that squadsight is a balance nightmare.
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Sep 8, 2013 23:46
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quiggy posted:Wait, you can squad sight with a pistol? I should stop taking DGG You do get squad sight range on pistol overwatch.
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Sep 8, 2013 23:54
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Lima posted:No, not in the slightest.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:47
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Can't you savescum in I/I anyway by turning off autosave and saving at set intervals during the mission?
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Sep 9, 2013 00:48
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Lady Naga posted:Can't you savescum in I/I anyway by turning off autosave and saving at set intervals during the mission? Presuming you mean I/I as 'ironman impossible' then no, because you're not turning off the autosave on ironman. That's kind of the point of ironman.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:54
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Coolguye posted:Presuming you mean I/I as 'ironman impossible' then no, because you're not turning off the autosave on ironman. That's kind of the point of ironman. But you can.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:58
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Lady Naga posted:But you can. You can turn off the option but last I checked it doesn't modify the semantics of the ironman mode at all. It has been a long time since I started a game of that so it's possible I am remembering incorrectly. But I'd be surprised.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:00
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Coolguye posted:You are making no sense whatsoever. The late game is relatively simple pretty much no matter what you do, as long as you get there with a strong XCOM base. Did you mean the early game? Because if so then building so many satellites and then not using them is provably making your early game harder. Build order is completely irrelevant. The early game, as you just found out, is too much of a crap shoot to say "queue a satellite on the 10th. Build a first uplink on the 14th." and so forth because there's zero guarantee that you're going to have enough resources to get it done. A lot of the interim building is dependent, too. Having steam somewhere in the first two levels completely changes optimal movements. You have enough uplink space for 4 extra satellites in the first month. Shut your drat cakehole if you don't know what you're talking about.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:42
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Knuc If U Buck posted:You have enough uplink space for 4 extra satellites in the first month. Shut your drat cakehole if you don't know what you're talking about. Oh whoops, sorry, too used to Long War, which reduces a sat uplink to 1 satellite per installation instead of 2. Perhaps you could explain, precisely, what you're doing that's any different from just straight beelining satellites like everyone else who plays the game, though? I'd also appreciate it if you bothered clarifying if you're building for the early or late game, since that is still really confusing.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:48
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Knuc If U Buck posted:You have enough uplink space for 4 extra satellites in the first month. Shut your drat cakehole if you don't know what you're talking about. Do you mean the second month? Because I've never been able to get out more than one extra satellite and maybe an uplink in the first month. If there's a way to get four satellites in the first month, I'd really like to know how!
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Sep 9, 2013 01:50
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Hellburger99 posted:Do you mean the second month? Because I've never been able to get out more than one extra satellite and maybe an uplink in the first month. If there's a way to get four satellites in the first month, I'd really like to know how! basically it amounts to pawn everything from your first ufo and hope it shows up fast enough to get construction on an uplink started in time.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:54
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Coolguye posted:Oh whoops, sorry, too used to Long War, which reduces a sat uplink to 1 satellite per installation instead of 2. How does Long War change the game? Maybe I should try that and pretend I'm playing for the first time again. I never said I was doing anything different, just trying to figure out an optimal build for the first month or 2 to make the later game easier. I didn't think it would be such a controversial question. FoolyCharged posted:basically it amounts to pawn everything from your first ufo and hope it shows up fast enough to get construction on an uplink started in time. Pretty much this. I still don't know how I should prioritise research or anything, aside from "research lasers, use the arc gun to steal some plasma stuff, Ghost armour is good". Also, is 4 sats enough to give me breathing space after the first month or should I be pushing for more? I just want to make the late game as easy as possible and I don't mind making the early game hard/reliant on lucky rng rolls.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:04
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Knuc If U Buck posted:How does Long War change the game? Maybe I should try that and pretend I'm playing for the first time again. I never said I was doing anything different, just trying to figure out an optimal build for the first month or 2 to make the later game easier. I didn't think it would be such a controversial question. quote:Pretty much this. I still don't know how I should prioritise research or anything, aside from "research lasers, use the arc gun to steal some plasma stuff, Ghost armour is good". Also, is 4 sats enough to give me breathing space after the first month or should I be pushing for more? I just want to make the late game as easy as possible and I don't mind making the early game hard/reliant on lucky rng rolls.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:20
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The late game is going to be a cakewalk no matter what you do, unless you do something dumb like not training up a b-team and then losing your a-team at some point. Rush lasers to make terror missions manageable, then rush alien capture to get to the base (and associated panic reduction) quickly, and after that who really cares. The only real concession to the late game you should be making is not selling weapon fragments.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:33
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I'm starting a new game and I'm limiting myself to 1 squad sight sniper, 1 heavy per mission and no ghost armor. My first 8 promotions included 5 heavies. Well played, XCOM.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:20
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So semantics aside about the "right" way to play a game, what is required in Xcom if I don't want to make the game completely unwinnable no matter what I do? Spoiler free if possible, but I really don't want to sink hours in to a game and find out that I'm hosed because I didn't train for laser weapons or something like that.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:27
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Blast of Confetti posted:So semantics aside about the "right" way to play a game, what is required in Xcom if I don't want to make the game completely unwinnable no matter what I do? Spoiler free if possible, but I really don't want to sink hours in to a game and find out that I'm hosed because I didn't train for laser weapons or something like that. Oh, and get squadsight on your sniper. You'll appreciate it.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:31
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Ravenfood posted:If you're playing on classic or below, as long as you're doing something you're probably okay. On normal, this is definitely true. I ended up skipping lasers and going straight to LPRs by accident on my classic first run, and while I lost a few countries, it turned out okay. End result: research stuff, kill stuff, don't sweat losing countries. Starting with lasers is a very strong start, though. Alright, cool. Not going to bother with anything tougher than normal until a few play throughs.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:40
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I don't even think it's even possible to lose on Normal unless you like, just press random buttons and click on things with no thought behind them. There's (almost?) never a situation where you cannot recover from on normal. I've never even tried Easy but I assume at some point aliens start shooting each other.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:43
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I try to talk everyone I can into playing on Classic at minimum. The way the game cheats in your favour on Normal is really coddling; the risk inherent in Classic is just a lot more satisfying because you end up with these totally kick-rear end emergent gameplay tales about how awesome it was when your star sniper just barely made it to the evac point after that dumbass rookie panicked and shot the VIP. Whereas on Normal mostly you just shoot aliens and they die. This is exactly the turnaround in opinion a friend of mine in my workplace had; he thought the game was fun but a bit easy on Normal, then took a shot at Classic after he found out it was the difficulty the game was designed for.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:46
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I/C game with not created equally, get out of the first mission and the promotions are assigned. To nobody's surprise the soldier with the worst aim gets to be a sniper! Fast forward a couple of months. My well outfitted squad are mostly Lieutenants with laser weapons and Carapace/Skeleton armor and had just destroyed a Cyberdisk, a drone and squad of Mutons without a scratch. Suddenly a lone, stray drone wanders into view and fires a bolt at my assault, shaving off a single point of health out of 16. OH GOD, GET ME OUTTA HERE!! I get to watch as my whole squad descends into panic and makes this the bloodiest mission so far thanks to that loving drone. Why am I having so many  moments today?
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Sep 9, 2013 04:14
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khwarezm posted:Fast forward a couple of months. My well outfitted squad are mostly Lieutenants with laser weapons and Carapace/Skeleton armor and had just destroyed a Cyberdisk, a drone and squad of Mutons without a scratch. Suddenly a lone, stray drone wanders into view and fires a bolt at my assault, shaving off a single point of health out of 16.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:34
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Ravenfood posted:Hell, that's nothing. Its the 3x Cyberdiscs all activating at once that are killing me right now. Those fuckers take no damage from anything. One infantry I had once critted a Muton for 22 with a laser rifle. He does 4 if he crits against a Cyberdisc. All my rocketeers are in the hospital, because "Rapid Recovery" seem to mean that getting shot up makes you heal in 25 days instead of 27, which is hardly worth the 300 (discounted price) I payed for it. Gah. I'm getting there. I could take on two Cyberdiscs at once without a Rocketeer, but 3 is too much for me. Its not that they don't end up dying, its that the game has basically set the AI to always use grenades. Not bunching up doesn't help. The game is smart enough to realize that guaranteed damage for a not-insignificant amount that destroys cover is basically far better than any shot you could possibly make, so always chucks one. Yeah Long War is mostly good. The changes they made to alien movement often lead to really intense battles where just as you're finishing off one pack of aliens the next one shows up and you fight at the limit of what you can handle for the entire mission, but then just as often you wake four packs of five Mutons and Berserkers right at the start and you realize there's no clever new battle AI - it's just random. I save scum the more egregious instances of that but I've mostly been able to work around it, accepting any result that isn't an instant mission wipe. The increased hospital time and tiredness mechanic works pretty well as long as you understand it from the start and immediately plan for at least three rotating squads. I played my first game through to September to get a handle on the changes and now I'm up to November in my new game. The second time around I was starved for alloys for a couple of months longer than the first so I wasn't able to field Carapace or Skeleton as soon as I researched them, and as a result I had noticeably more multiple-KIA missions (and more hospital stays) during that period. I like that you're extremely cash-limited early on as it forces you to make difficult choices about what items to buy, but that disappears around six months in and the much greater limiting factor becomes alloys and especially weapon fragments. The increased game length and the variance of enemy types in the missions are the best parts about the mod. The way the difficulty ramps up (on Normal) feels really finely tuned, but again it's probably just random. I'm enjoying the balance between regular missions where you take a mix of vets and rookies, and the large UFO landings where you want your A-team; both types can be difficult and the pure cakewalks of vanilla are rarer. I don't like the new interceptor game, I know you're not expected to be able to shoot down the larger UFOs but the effort it takes to even down a single medium UFO is too much. I didn't want to buy the incredibly expensive fighter upgrade project but Firestorms are so crazy expensive in materials that I'll probably have to. One thing I overlooked is how the alien base attacks work; you now have to launch satellites over lost countries to access the base mission and make the Skeleton Key available to build. I'll be doing my first base mission in late November and I hope it rewards a huge amount of alloys and elerium because I only have two Titan Armors and no Archangel yet, and I'm facing down Heavy Floater packs (along with the massively spongy Berserkers). Regarding those Cyberdisks, I was sure when I first encountered them that my lasers were doing the full 5-6 damage, but now every hit is more like 2 or 3 and they don't appear to have any damage reduction ability in the overview. I guess it just doesn't show up, like with SHIVs (which are better in this mod but still not worth the investment).
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Sep 9, 2013 05:37
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necrobobsledder posted:You don't know how the guy suffered that one point of damage. If the laser hit and cauterized my dick, I think whatever training and experience I had would quickly become negligible. It depends, really. If EW is installed when my dick gets blasted off, I'd just get a bigger, stronger, robotic dick. Or maybe we'd smear some of that meld on there and I'd grow a tentacle. Despite the moral struggle between man and machine, it's a win-win situation for the common man. I'm really hoping that EW captures that, somehow.
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Sep 9, 2013 06:09
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Kalko posted:Yeah Long War is mostly good. The changes they made to alien movement often lead to really intense battles where just as you're finishing off one pack of aliens the next one shows up and you fight at the limit of what you can handle for the entire mission, but then just as often you wake four packs of five Mutons and Berserkers right at the start and you realize there's no clever new battle AI - it's just random. I save scum the more egregious instances of that but I've mostly been able to work around it, accepting any result that isn't an instant mission wipe. I kinda hosed myself in my Long War game because I started by getting full satellite coverage in Europe, only to discover that the third workshop and satellite uplink require 30 engineers. I haven't gotten any Engineers as rewards from missions and I don't get any at the end of each month because Europe, so I'm stuck. I finally managed to get a single satellite up in Asia so I guess I'll have to survive like 10 months to build more workshops and engineers.
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Sep 9, 2013 15:11
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Kalko posted:Yeah Long War is mostly good. The changes they made to alien movement often lead to really intense battles where just as you're finishing off one pack of aliens the next one shows up and you fight at the limit of what you can handle for the entire mission, but then just as often you wake four packs of five Mutons and Berserkers right at the start and you realize there's no clever new battle AI - it's just random. I save scum the more egregious instances of that but I've mostly been able to work around it, accepting any result that isn't an instant mission wipe. Also, I don't know how people are able to fly through LW so fast, I'm still on my 1.92 game in October because 12 missions/month makes stuff drag. edit: vvvvv Okay, double-tap at Lieutenant, a -5 aim penalty when using the LMG, and very poor aim growth. Compare that to an Infantry, which starts with Bulletstorm and goes from there. While I'd probably take an LMG on an infantry if I could, Gunner's aim growth is just frustrating. Its hilarious when something runs into the line of sight of my overwatching sentinel, opportunist infantry, only, to then get hit by a regular shot and then a rapid fire as soon as its my turn. poo poo melts, but so does my ammo capacity. Rocketeers, by contrast, barely have to deal with the aim, since they get enough rockets to be throwing them around almost every turn. Gunners can be useful, but infantry fills the "wall of lead" role much better. I just don't see a space on my lineup for one, unless I have to, and, admittedly, I often do. With them getting HEAT rounds, they're useful against Cyberdiscs, I suppose, but only as a backup when my rocketeer is down. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 15:29
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Ravenfood posted:You know what Gunners need? The ability to provide the Shredder debuff on targets. Because right now Gunners feel pretty weak, even though I love suppression, especially since Infantry are strong, reliable performers, Medics with Combat Smoke are amazing, and a rocketeer is mandatory. Having another way to get that Shredder debuff on targets would go a long way towards requiring you to bring a rocketeer along. Hell, I'm feeling disappointed by the main rockets now, and somewhat regretting taking the Rocketeer perk at major. If I had to pick between another rocket and another shredder round, I know which one I'd take. We'll see how that changes once the Blaster Bombs I'm researching finish, though. 1.92 Gunners are amazing. They get Double Tap at Lt. in 2.x they are still not bad. The LMG is a solid weapon, and tends to kill very effectively because of the higher damage output. I agree that it's hard to promote them over Rocketeers though.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:25
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Finally got around to playing this game after getting it cheap off amazon. Started on Classic. poo poo was tough and I was losing alot of countries, so it looked like an impossibility so I restarted on Normal. It's kinda simple after Classic. Well it was until I reached the Slingshot battleship mission. Got my best crew wiped out by a sectopod. Think I'll finish the game in Normal just to get an idea of the enemies and tech. Then give beating Classic another go.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:08
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Blast of Confetti posted:So semantics aside about the "right" way to play a game, what is required in Xcom if I don't want to make the game completely unwinnable no matter what I do? Spoiler free if possible, but I really don't want to sink hours in to a game and find out that I'm hosed because I didn't train for laser weapons or something like that. Basically, satellites are your priority. On Normal difficulty, the panic management is so simple that the only way to really screw this up is just by not freaking building any satellites. I suppose not building satellites would also make you perpetually poor, bringing about the possibility that you can't advance quickly enough in technology and equipment to keep up with late-game enemies. Build satellites. On the OTS, squad size upgrades are first priority. While experience upgrades, willpower upgrades, and the "less likely to die when shot in face" upgrade are nice, troops are expendable and you have plenty of time to get a barracks full of colonels. Willpower isn't really that important. Do that, and things will come. Technology will research, you get better weapons, shoot more bads. Skeleton armor is way better than carapace. Try and capture aliens when possible, their interrogations are helpful and you get to keep their stuff. Try not to get flanked, that's when the critical hits start coming and that's how troopers die. Know when a mission has gone tits up, get to the evac site and bail. The consequences are not that dire. (unless it keeps happening) You don't need every nation to stay in the project, although it's certainly possible to win on Normal or Classic without losing any. South America and Europe's bonuses aren't that good. Don't play on normal difficulty for too long. It teaches you bad habits. You shouldn't be spending several turns trading shots from cover with aliens. On higher difficulties, they are better at this than you are. Normal difficulty also does not teach you proper fear of Thin Men. Thin Men are assholes.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:18
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Iron Will is most definitely an important upgrade, but it's the least important of the OTS upgrades simply because it's pretty much your heads up to start training a new A-Team, leaving your current lineup to be your solid B-Team. So don't ignore that, or you'll have inferior soldiers when psi rolls around. Mind control is still a horrifying thing in this game. Also, gently caress Thin Men.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:39
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3rd mission with long run on classic ironman. It's the hell-train station and, on turn 4, 12 sectiods came into view. 
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Sep 10, 2013 04:28
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amanasleep posted:1.92 Gunners are amazing. They get Double Tap at Lt. I'm playing LW 2.0 and mostly use them for suppression and holo-targeting because you can't rely on their aim. I built one Heavy Laser and just cycle it between my few Gunners whenever they're not in hospital. I don't really like the rocket mechanics in LW; if vanilla's 90% miss rate was too reliable then LW's scatter thing goes too far in the other direction. I just started fighting Elite Mutons in Nov and they seem to only come in packs of five, and they regenerate five HP per turn (yes, really). So far the only way I've been able to handle them is with double Rocketeer squads, but their terrible aim doesn't really work in these life or death situations so my casualty rate is increasing steadily. I have a really solid pool of soldiers but only just got my second Colonel (a double-tap Sniper, which should help) and my equipment is still severely bottle-necked by alloys and Elerium. I'm using plasma rifles from captured Mutons and I've researched the plasma sniper but can't build any yet. I've only got two suits of Titan and now one Archangel, but the rest of the squad is still wearing Skeleton. If I'd done an alien base a few months ago I think I'd be in a much better situation equipment-wise, and while I kinda like the challenge of being under-equipped I'm starting to think I'm only a few dead veterans away from an unrecoverable cascade of mission failures. Still, it's fun.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:41
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Kalko posted:I'm playing LW 2.0 and mostly use them for suppression and holo-targeting because you can't rely on their aim. I built one Heavy Laser and just cycle it between my few Gunners whenever they're not in hospital. I don't really like the rocket mechanics in LW; if vanilla's 90% miss rate was too reliable then LW's scatter thing goes too far in the other direction. I just started fighting Elite Mutons in Nov and they seem to only come in packs of five, and they regenerate five HP per turn (yes, really). So far the only way I've been able to handle them is with double Rocketeer squads, but their terrible aim doesn't really work in these life or death situations so my casualty rate is increasing steadily. I'm in June on my 2.1 Normal run and I just started to see Plasma Rifle Mutons. I went for infrastructure with a Europe start and it's about to pay off with my fourth uplink and satellite coverage on Africa. Not sure if I could get away with that on classic. In any event I'm not having trouble beating missions yet, but I'm light on Snipers and Rocketeers, so I may have trouble when Cyberdiscs start showing up. I'm hoping I can stun a Floater soon so I can get Armored Fighters or else I'm pretty sure I will start falling behind on UFO shootdowns. Snipers really are essential despite the efforts of this mod to make other classes stronger. Squad Sight Flush is pretty awesome. But I think that Infantry is the bad rear end front line soldier. If you have 4 of these you can deal with any terror mission. I'm having a pretty good time with it. It is a bit of a grind. I would prefer to have slightly fewer missions. Aside from that it is massively better than vanilla.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:11
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Sonofabtich just lost my only trained up sniper. Two loving sectopods. I have no snipers past squaddie now.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:12
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amanasleep posted:I'm in June on my 2.1 Normal run and I just started to see Plasma Rifle Mutons. I went for infrastructure with a Europe start and it's about to pay off with my fourth uplink and satellite coverage on Africa. Not sure if I could get away with that on classic. In any event I'm not having trouble beating missions yet, but I'm light on Snipers and Rocketeers, so I may have trouble when Cyberdiscs start showing up. I'm hoping I can stun a Floater soon so I can get Armored Fighters or else I'm pretty sure I will start falling behind on UFO shootdowns. I started in Europe as well and also claimed Africa first for a big cash boost in the early game. I'm wondering if it was a mistake to hold off for so long on the upgraded fighters. I'm in mid-Nov and I still rarely shoot down medium UFOs and I only have a token interceptor on two continents to engage them just to avoid the panic increase. Do the aliens get stronger due to escaped UFOs? I don't remember the list but I know failed missions contribute towards that. The main downside to not shooting down all the UFOs you can is the materials you lose out on, but I still think it's the weakest part of the mod because I swear half the time I try to shoot down a UFO I waste all three powerups on my first interceptor and then the second one can't reach it before it flies away. Class shortages seem to run in streaks in the two games I've played. In my first game I couldn't find any Rocketeers for months while in my current one I went through a long streak of losing Medics on missions to the most random poo poo you could possibly imagine. I'm doing pretty well on all classes now, though my Assaults usually don't make it past Lieutenant (I'm pretty careful but I'm not going to extraordinary lengths like I did with my I/I runs). My casualty rate tends to increase whenever I first start using Arc Throwers, and while rookies are cheap it's still slightly painful to churn through so many. I have three veteran Engineers now and I take one to each mission on the off chance a capture opportunity presents itself. My first Colonel is an Infantry and you're right, they're the best and most reliable source of non-Sniper damage. I'm not sure if the mod changes the sub-class stat progression but I have a few mid-level Scouts and Medics with 90+ aim, which is great when you absolutely must land a shot.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:41
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Marenghi posted:Started on Classic. poo poo was tough and I was losing alot of countries, so it looked like an impossibility so I restarted on Normal. It's kinda simple after Classic. Well it was until I reached the Slingshot battleship mission. Got my best crew wiped out by a sectopod. I finally started my 2nd ever game (First was back at release. both Classic) and I figured I may as well try Slingshot for something besides hats. First mission was ok. It's weird to have a random criminal as the highest ranking Xcom soldier though. 2nd mission was a pain because I thought activating things would give me more time, like on bomb missions, but that was not the case. Is there something in the UI I am missing that lets you know when a countdown is extendable vs absolute? Early Muton capture nicely coincided with getting South America covered though, so my crew is rocking lasers and light plasma now. Although I'm not sure about taking out a Battleship at this stage, seems like a pretty big jump. I also hosed up and lost the USA and my satellite there, kept looking in engineering to build interceptors and then researching flight/power tech to unlock them. Shortly after losing the USA I remember you build the drat things via the hanger. Whups Also also hosed up a little on my first terror mission. Forgot about delayed zombification and parked my Assault next to a dead civvie who then woke up and punched her for 9 of her 10 HP.
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Sep 10, 2013 11:08
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