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AASman posted:You had to find ammo and silencers for it and you could only carry a limited supply so you had to use it wisely. It also wouldn't hold up in a fire fight. It also brought non-lethal stealth to the series which I love. In MGS2 and 3 at least, it was more balanced. MGS4 and Peace Walker you could just purchase as much ammo as you want or have you R&D unit give you a bunch. I really think on higher difficulties like hard and extreme waking up from a tranq should get you caution mode same as a knockout. 3 introduced consumable suppressors, but again, unless you were being willfully careless with the Mk2, you would have suppressors and darts aplenty. 4 was just a return to MGS2's status quo on the dart tip. The tranq gun didn't introduce non-lethal(technically less-lethal; non-lethal force is a myth) gameplay to the series, it was always there. In MGS1, you could neutralize a guard without killing him by sneaking up on him and choking him unconscious, or punch-punch-kicking him a couple of times. You can also do this in MGS2, MGS3(Greatly expanded here), MGS4(Expanded even further here), and Peace Walker. The only thing you couldn't do with the CQC/Proto-CQC mechanics was less-lethal neutralize bosses, which doesn't mean a drat anyhow because even if you tranq them out they still die anyway. Python for Portable Ops was the only example of the tranq gun actually working within the plot on a boss. Anyhow, the point is that the tranq gun is easy mode. You can do a less-lethal run without it, it just requires a lot more thought and effort because you have to close the distance and knock guards out with chokeholds and melee. If adding an element to the game diminishes it by making it easier to solve a problem by means other than pure stealth, then the tranq gun is the ultimate downfall of the series because it offers the conceit of claiming stealth when you're actually just running and gunning with no penalties and a feel-good "That guy you just domed with your pistol isn't actually dead!" mask on top. I respect the introduction of the tranq gun to the series, and I understand what Kojima was trying to do with it. I have no problem with it, because the player can decide on whether or not to use it, but if someone is going to point at a mechanic added after MGS1 and talk about how it compromises or casualises the games mechanics, they have to start with the tranq gun. All I'm trying to say is, unless the inclusion of a new gameplay element forces the player to play the game a certain way, there's nothing wrong with including it. People often knock MGS4 on account of its switch to a more organic control setup on the account of making direct combat too seductive an option, but the player isn't obligated to gun their way through the game. Tranqing through the game is still perfectly viable(More so, actually), and the expanded CQC mechanics meant you could do a non-lethal run without the tranq gun. Ghosting through the game without neutralizing guards was still completely viable too. It's what I've always loved about MGS games that so many other stealth games missed for such a long time; the ability to play the game however you want. You can play the games like a ghost, you can be the Predator, you can play it like John Matrix. Meanwhile, other stealth games like Splinter Cell had detection limits("Trigger three alerts and I'll abort this mission Sam!") and inexplicably poor weapons mechanics(Sam Fisher is a SEAL turned super black-ops ninja, but he can't hit a target across a room with his FS2000), all designed to railroad you into playing the game only in the way the developers thought it should be played. The freedom Metal Gear games give you when it comes to how to play them is one of their greatest assets. Each game adds a new element without mandating its use. MGS2 added the tranq gun and first person view(For all weapons, no just the sniper rifle), which you could use or ignore as you wished. MGS3 added a larger arsenal and the camo system, but the player got to decide whether or not they wanted to use those guns and whether or not the wanted to change their camo every time they moved or to just set it to a pattern they liked and stick with it for the rest of the game. 4 revamped the controls and added a lot of guns and tech, but you could still sneak through without using any of it. One of my favorite things about 4 was that there were so many options that you could put together gimmicks for chapters or even entire playthroughs. You could do a late Cold War spec-ops run(SOCOM-SD, 870, M4 without suppressor), a Vietnam era spec-ops loadout(1911, Mac-10, M4. No attachments, no sound suppressors{The Mk2 from MGS3 was actually Vietnam era suppressed pistol that was issued, except in 9mm NATO}), and any other number of combinations. If Kojima and crew can keep adding new mechanics while still allowing players to enjoy the game however they want, I'm happy. *edit* I had completely forgotten about how Peace Walker had combined the deteriorating suppressors with only having one per mission. While I was writing this post, I had a nagging thought in the back of my head remembering having problems keeping the tranq gun fed but couldn't place it till now. I was remembering always running out of suppressor on the Mk2 on the later vehicle boss missions. Only having one suppressor that would wear out from use was a great mechanic. That was a very cool concept, one that might work in MGS5 depending on how they're doing the mission structuring. Strayer fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 18:11
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I just hope Sutherland sings an English cover of Love Deterrence.
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Sep 12, 2013 18:13
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AASman posted:
I know that, I'm talking about reader-side interpretation. The author is dead and so on.
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Sep 12, 2013 18:15
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Strayer posted:The tranq gun didn't introduce non-lethal(technically less-lethal; non-lethal force is a myth) gameplay to the series, it was always there. In MGS1, you could neutralize a guard without killing him by sneaking up on him and choking him unconscious, or punch-punch-kicking him a couple of times. You cannot complete MGS1 non-lethally. When you "choke" the guards, you're breaking their necks. You can hear a pretty gross crunching sound as you complete the action. You also have the boss fights (including the two elevator battles with guards) wherein you must kill to complete them. That said, I agree with the sentiment of your post. The more things Snake can do in the game, the more fun the player can have. If an ice cream stand has 10 flavours and you always get chocolate, it doesn't ruin your experience if they add 5 new flavours. It means there's more to choose from if for some reason you don't feel like your favourite. Hell, last time I played MGS4 I re-imagined Snake as a wizard. I wore the Altair outfit and used the Mantis/Sorrow dolls, Petrol Bomb, WP Grenade, and Railgun. (Switching to other items only temporarily if needed.) It was something silly and fun, but didn't take away from my usual experience. I will still go back to Octocamo, M4, Operator, Stun Knife and Smoke Grenades because it feels right.
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Sep 12, 2013 18:38
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I thought I had mentioned the forced combat sections of MGS1. Slipped my mind, I guess. You can choke the guards unconscious without killing them, though. Takes six taps on the square button I think, and it takes either eight or nine taps to break their necks. If you just knock them out, you'll drop them to the ground and they'll have the three stars floating over their heads. Unless I am horribly misremembering. I distinctly remember being able to knock dudes out by choking them in MGS1, but I'm having a hard time finding confirmation online.
Strayer fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 18:44
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I've never played through a Metal Gear game without reverting to stealth eventually. Actually that goes for pretty much any game where stealth is an option. I've started playthroughs of each MGS with the aim to screw alerts and kill everyone but sooner or later I was in a box and tranqing guards. Stealth's in my blood I guess. I also tried that approach with my second playgthroughs of both Far Cry 3 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution but again went back to stealth fairly soon. Just can't help it. I think Skyrim might be the only game where I've taken a head-on approach with a character even though stealth was an option, though generally when there's a character class available, I always go for the thief/rogue/scout or whatever relies on long range and hiding.
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Sep 12, 2013 18:45
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Strayer posted:I thought I had mentioned the forced combat sections of MGS1. Slipped my mind, I guess. You can choke the guards unconscious without killing them, though. Takes six taps on the square button I think, and it takes either eight or nine taps to break their necks. If you just knock them out, you'll drop them to the ground and they'll have the three stars floating over their heads. Unless I am horribly misremembering. I distinctly remember being able to knock dudes out by choking them in MGS1, but I'm having a hard time finding confirmation online. You're correct, however the "stun" in MGS1 only lasted a few seconds. Didn't matter if you used a stun grenade, kicks/punches or a choke-hold. I never played Twin Snakes, so maybe it was more effective there. The only time it was really necessary to stun guards was the staircase ascension. Otherwise, flipping guards as you ran past them was pretty much the best non-lethal method of progressing through MGS1.
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Sep 12, 2013 20:07
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Harlock posted:POOPS is my favorite Metal Gear acronym. Mine too. As far as I can tell, "Rageaholic Monkey" started that by calling it PoOps. Then "second-hand smegma" called it POOPS and the rest is history.
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Sep 12, 2013 23:09
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This is why Snake is like an action figure for me. The sheer number of ways I can play the game and the level of interactivity are my favorite things about MGS.
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Sep 12, 2013 23:27
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Fat Turkey posted:I was gonna come here to ask if, having played all the numbered MGSs, whether I was going to have to play Peace Walker to appreciate MGS5, but looks like I'm not the first and the answer is 'Yes do it'. Wasn't going to buy the Legacy or the HD games as I already own 2 and 3. Will a Let's Play not do? If you watch an LP of Peace Walker make sure it's Chip Cheezum's. His LP goes super in depth with the mechanics and covers all the extra story codecs and things. http://chipandironicus.com/videos/mgspw/
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Sep 12, 2013 23:39
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For some reason, the last Zadornov mission isn't unlocking. I've found him six times, my intel is over level 40, I have at least one extra plant (I think I have six?), and ZEKE is complete with a railgun, but I'm still not getting the call to say that Kaz doesn't know where he is. Should I just grind until it triggers? Can I replay mission to add to the trigger, or does it only count first time completion of a mission towards the internal timer? I've even checked Extra Ops 1 to make sure I didn't skip the cutscene, and he's not there.
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Sep 13, 2013 00:09
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Maybe you need to work on your aim first.
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Sep 13, 2013 00:22
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OldMemes posted:For some reason, the last Zadornov mission isn't unlocking. I've found him six times, my intel is over level 40, I have at least one extra plant (I think I have six?), and ZEKE is complete with a railgun, but I'm still not getting the call to say that Kaz doesn't know where he is. Should I just grind until it triggers? Can I replay mission to add to the trigger, or does it only count first time completion of a mission towards the internal timer? I've even checked Extra Ops 1 to make sure I didn't skip the cutscene, and he's not there. Make sure ZEKE isn't on an Outer Ops team. That's usually what's happened in this situation.
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Sep 13, 2013 00:34
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I like the addition of tranq guns, more weapons and options that the games have these days. The pure sneaking of MGS1 is amazing, but you can still do it in the new ones if you like. The most fun I've had with 3 was a hard mode knife only run in which I only donned a shirt if absolutely necessary (as in I was struggling to maintain my manly stamina).
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Sep 13, 2013 01:40
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:I like the addition of tranq guns, more weapons and options that the games have these days. The pure sneaking of MGS1 is amazing, but you can still do it in the new ones if you like. The most fun I've had with 3 was a hard mode knife only run in which I only donned a shirt if absolutely necessary (as in I was struggling to maintain my manly stamina). The best way to play 3 is Naked camo, USA face paint, cigar and M63 machine gun firing at all times, Snake becomes a screaming machine of death. 
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Sep 13, 2013 01:58
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Charging through the mountain area in MGS3 smoking a cigar, bandana flapping in the breeze, shirtless and screaming with the M63 destroying all and sundry is one of my favourite video game memories.
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Sep 13, 2013 02:03
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:Charging through the mountain area in MGS3 smoking a cigar, bandana flapping in the breeze, shirtless and screaming with the M63 destroying all and sundry is one of my favourite video game memories. Stopping only to take a break by firing an ever bigger gun into some helicopters later on.
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Sep 13, 2013 05:44
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J Bjelke-Postersen posted:Charging through the mountain area in MGS3 smoking a cigar, bandana flapping in the breeze, shirtless and screaming with the M63 destroying all and sundry is one of my favourite video game memories. Rambo Gear Solid: Action Action ACTION
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Sep 13, 2013 06:30
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OldMemes posted:For some reason, the last Zadornov mission isn't unlocking. Seconding Ximum's suggestion. When you do get the call for the last search mission, remember to select a good cutscene camo. Playing the Zadornov missions (all at night) with the Sneaking suit, the FAL, NVGs, binos, and yellow smoke grenades replicates the GZ trailer experience fairly well. You can also encounter soldiers in equipment suspiciously similar to the XOF if you trigger an alert in Aldea de los Despiertos. (where Chico was first held captive) I suspect that Skull Face is Zadornov. It feels as though the Peace Walker mission was reconnaissance before the raid with his troops. Kojima mentioned that he brought back a character that died, and we know fake death pills work. I wonder just how short a time passes between Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes. I thought I'd also mention this: While I personally don't see any problem with PW discussion here, (because it's the closest drat thing we have to a MGSV prologue in the meantime) Novolin's thread for the HD Collection is still open. There are some gameplay experts in that thread. Spalec posted:The best way to play 3 is Naked camo, USA face paint, cigar and M63 machine gun firing at all times, Snake becomes a screaming machine of death. edit: If POOPS were canon, could "V has come to" mean Viper? (aka Gene) Could he have survived? mortalwombat fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 07:55
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mortalwombat posted:I suspect that Skull Face is Zadornov. It feels as though the Peace Walker mission was reconnaissance before the raid with his troops. Kojima mentioned that he brought back a character that died, and we know fake death pills work. I wonder just how short a time passes between Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes.
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Sep 13, 2013 09:40
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Ken-ichiro Imaizumi (@Ken1555) posted:TGS: Hideo Kojima to show new MGSV gameplay footage. I would like to mention a few small pieces of information for use as speculation-fuel. When we first saw Snake's new red hand, some people thought it might be Zadornov's prosthetic hand that Snake had obtained at the end of PW. This was disregarded by those who pointed out that Zadornov's was a right hand and Snake's is a left. When watching the Red Band E3 trailer (during the part where Snake helps Miller across the deck of what looks like Mother Base) I noticed that all the fingers are the same length. The 'pinky' finger is most noticeable. It could very well be Zadornov's hand, re-purposed by Huey and/or the R&D team. Another interesting thing is in regards to Ocelot's lines in the Afghanistan portion of the trailer. His face is either coverered, or away from the audience, for almost all of the spoken lines in the trailer. Everything before the line "I expect you'll become quite familiar with those binoculars as you plan your next move" could very well be from a different segment of the game. I think that those lines would best fit into their meeting during the hospital escape. Ocelot wouldn't say "he's in Afghanistan" if they were also in Afghanistan. The final thing I'd like to point out is that during Ocelot's character clip "A Rival living a Lie", he can be clearly seen mouthing his line from earlier in the trailer "and let the legend come back to life!" He is even making the same hand gesture. The shot was just the same moment from a different angle, right? No. They not only changed the camera angle, but relocated Ocelot's model. The shadows that cross his face and body after dismounting the horse to send Snake off are not present in the character clip. The reason I feel these things are worth mentioning is that we can now confirm that not everything in the trailers can be taken at absolute face value. The GDC presentation showed how easily assets can be modified if necessary. --- As I update and expand the OP over the next few weeks, I'm considering adding a section in the secondary OP to compile user's predictions with links to the relevant posts. (For example, the David Bowie theory proposed by "Monster w21 Faces" in previous MGS threads.) If you have a speculation that you'd like added to the list, let me know. If I add a post of yours to the list and you'd like to opt out, let me know that too. After release, we can vote on the best / most accurate predictions and I'll award Platinum/Archives/No-Ads or something (TBD) to the winners.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:21
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mortalwombat posted:Everything before the line "I expect you'll become quite familiar with those binoculars as you plan your next move" could very well be from a different segment of the game.
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Sep 18, 2013 20:09
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mortalwombat posted:This was re-tweeted by Kojima. It also seems that the Japanese VO version of the E3 trailer will be released (in Red Band and Green Band) and it will reveal the Japanese VA for Ocelot. Kojima Producer, Ken-ichiro Imzaisumi has been tweeting a link to the TGS MGSV live stream that will be present tonight (9/18 7:50 PM Central): http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv152213777 Not sure if you need to register but I did just in case. He also said that a recording of it will be available later on the Konami Youtube this week. He also mentioned that the 21st has a different "demo" from the 19th's (tonight's) presentation. mortalwombat posted:They not only changed the camera angle, but relocated Ocelot's model. The shadows that cross his face and body after dismounting the horse to send Snake off are not present in the character clip.
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Sep 18, 2013 22:54
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nosebro posted:Could be something to do with the day-night cycle and the lightsource being in a different position when they have the "zoomed in" clip. I'm pretty sure he was moved forward, considering the placement of the stone structure behind him. nosebro posted:Kojima Producer, Ken-ichiro Imzaisumi has been tweeting a link to the TGS MGSV live stream that will be present tonight (9/18 7:50 PM Central): http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv152213777 The MGS presentation starts in two and a half hours. mortalwombat fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 02:04
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mortalwombat posted:I'm pretty sure he was moved forward, considering the placement of the stone structure behind him. I was just about to edit my post, it has this link saying "13:00 [Japanese words I can't copy and paste] ~ METAL GEAR SOLID Ⅴ THE PHANTOM PAIN" so it might not be for two and a half hours, assuming that means it'll come on 13:00 in Tokyo's timezone. Here's what it links too, saying the event times near the bottom: http://www.jp.playstation.com/tgs2013/event/ All the producer linked was the site and, considering I can't read Japanese, I got confused. Enjoy the soft techno over the Playstation TGS floor for now, I guess. Edit: IGNlive is streaming it at 9:00pm PT. trash lord fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 02:32
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Stream is now on. edit: One Play Ota-Kon? What?
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Sep 19, 2013 05:05
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Ekusukariba posted:Ground Zeroes is I believe fairly soon after Peace walker, like a few weeks maybe? As for Zadornov being Skull Face, its unlikely since He's KGB and Skull Face is working for Cipher, among other reasons like his body being left at Mother base, his right hand looks natural and not prosthetic, and given the short time between games its unlikely that he could have been horribly disfigured then had the wounds healed leaving behind older looking scars As far as I can tell Ground Zeroes takes place several years after Peace Walker and The Phantom Pain is ten years after that.
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Sep 19, 2013 05:57
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thekimjong-illest posted:As far as I can tell Ground Zeroes takes place several days after Peace Walker and The Phantom Pain is ten years after that. Fixed for you.
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Sep 19, 2013 06:08
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SgtSteel91 posted:Fixed for you. That does actually make more sense now that I think about it.
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Sep 19, 2013 06:10
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Well, they explicitly said Big Boss's coma was for nine years and that The Phantom Pain took place in 1984. Either it has been a year since the ending of Peace Walker or it was in the ending months of 1975 when it ended. I remember one of Paz's tapes saying something about it being summer before it ended, though. Also, apparently there was a line from Big Boss added to the Japanese Red Band trailer. After Ocelot says there's going to be a new weapon, Big Boss says, "既存の核兵器じゃないってことか" which would be something like, "Do you mean not an existing nuclear weapon?" Not much, but it at least confirms that line was stated to Big Boss. And the TGS performance confirmed that !'s still exist. That's the real selling point to me. trash lord fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 06:56
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Video of the demo showed at TGS today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41j9s2SEatk
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Sep 19, 2013 07:20
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Looks like Ground Zeroes is the prologue mission and not a separate game.
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Sep 19, 2013 07:35
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SgtSteel91 posted:Looks like Ground Zeroes is the prologue mission and not a separate game. I'm weirdly disappointed that it isn't a DLC or smaller release thing (which was suggested in the old thread) just because now I have to wait longer for new MGS.
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Sep 19, 2013 07:44
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So what the hell is "Diamond Dogs" then?
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Sep 19, 2013 07:46
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Speedball posted:So what the hell is "Diamond Dogs" then? The post-MSF merc group that Big Boss operates.
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Sep 19, 2013 07:48
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Those crosshairs are hideous.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:34
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blackguy32 posted:Those crosshairs are hideous. I thought it might show the tranquilliser's drop-off, but they didn't use it on any enemies far away, so it's hard to tell. It would make sense to include drop-off, since they're much larger and slower than bullets, plus it would balance one of the most broken items in the series.
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Sep 19, 2013 22:12
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mortalwombat posted:You cannot complete MGS1 non-lethally. When you "choke" the guards, you're breaking their necks. You can hear a pretty gross crunching sound as you complete the action. You also have the boss fights (including the two elevator battles with guards) wherein you must kill to complete them. That's only if you mash []. You can press it steadily and knock them out. I agree with your overall sentiment, though. E: Whoops. Mentioned. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 23:00
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That looks sick!! Exclamation marks are in!!! The slo-mo thing is a little unclear to me. If a dude spots you you can press L1 and the camera will re-orient towards him and you have a second to try and shoot him, right? But what happened the second time, when he threw the tranq'd guy at the other guy? Also, did the commentators say anything about how tagging works? Are enemies automatically tagged when you look at them for a little bit or is there something else you have to do? I'm psyched
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Sep 19, 2013 23:42
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So GZ/TPP is essentially the equivalent of Tanker/Plant from MGS2.
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Sep 19, 2013 23:43
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