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whatupdet posted:Oops, I didn't realize that was bad as I've been near full capacity for quite some time now. I'll pick up the Samsung 840 Pro 128GB as per the OP and sell the 60GB. Edit: I edited the OP to make it more clear that the 840 Pro is a high-end drive and not what most people should be buying. Alereon fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 17, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 20:40
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I have a Samsung 840 Evo 750Gb (very satisfied with it so far, by the way) and it looks like Samsung Magician recommends an over provision of 10% to be left as free space. Not like I'll be filling up the drive anytime soon but it contrasts with all the suggestions I've read previously that recommend 20% to be left over. Does the size of non-partitioned space depend on a percentage of total drive space, or on an absolute amount (in which case 10% of a bigger drive would make more sense, I suppose)?
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Sep 17, 2013 21:10
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10% of 750GB is a lot, so I'm not too surprised. It depends on what the drive does with that extra slack space, really.
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Sep 17, 2013 21:47
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Alereon posted:A 128GB 840 Pro is probably a poor choice. For that money you could almost get a decent 256GB drive, and the capacity and performance boost from doubling the capacity is much more noticeable than getting a super expensive drive. Samsung drives also suffer in performance more than others when full or heavily loaded.
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Sep 17, 2013 21:52
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So how do I know when a drive is reaching the end of it's writable life or if it's starting to degrade in that direction?
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Sep 17, 2013 22:20
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AlternateAccount posted:So how do I know when a drive is reaching the end of it's writable life or if it's starting to degrade in that direction? Depends on the drive but the Intel and Samsung software will give you a report on the drive health, I am not sure about the others.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:27
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AlternateAccount posted:So how do I know when a drive is reaching the end of it's writable life or if it's starting to degrade in that direction? Run the portable version of CrystalDiskInfo and look at the percentage of health remaining. It'll also actually tell you the program and erase fail counts, if those start to go up, that's a good indicator for when it's reached the end. Disclaimer: If your SSD is lovely, the health indicator may not be relevant at all. My dad had an OCZ Petrol  and it did just what you'd expect, while the indicator still showed 70%. (After only a month while my Samsung 830 has been at 100% for over a year now.)Because my dad was being an idiot and insisted it was a hardware problem with the laptop, he had sold the laptop, but kept the bad drive. I eventually convinced him to get rid of it by lying to him and saying that the CDI indicator started at 0% for SSDs and tracked wear. The store that sold him that drive also bought it.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:40
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^^^^ Seconding Crystaldisk, easy and free tool. However, for most SSDs the easy "good, caution, bad" indicator is based only off the _reported life remaining_ value from the ssd. If there were a bunch of reallocation events that would be a bad sign, so you might want to look at those in the detail list. Also while SSDs are probably a bit more predictable than HDs, SMART is overall famously bad at predicting failure. So don't skimp on the backups just because crystaldisk says 100% good. whatupdet posted:My bad, I just read the entire OP and have narrowed it down to the recommended $160 Mushkin Enhanced Chronos 240GB or the $193 Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe 240GB.
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Sep 17, 2013 23:08
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Thanks, I just finished browsing a few different sites (Newegg, NCIX, Canada computers) and I can't find the Deluxe any cheaper than $190 so I'll save myself $30.
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Sep 17, 2013 23:29
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whatupdet posted:Thanks, I just finished browsing a few different sites (Newegg, NCIX, Canada computers) and I can't find the Deluxe any cheaper than $190 so I'll save myself $30. Edit: Hah sorry, my brain stopped working when you said you were looking at Newegg. Alereon fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 17, 2013 23:46
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whatupdet posted:Thanks, I just finished browsing a few different sites (Newegg, NCIX, Canada computers) and I can't find the Deluxe any cheaper than $190 so I'll save myself $30. What you should be doing is checking the Canadian site for PC Part Picker. I don't know if it indexes stores that PC Part Picker doesn't, but it can't hurt to give shopbot.ca a try either.
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Sep 18, 2013 00:02
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Xenomorph posted:Anyone have SandForce 2281 firmware changelog? Patriot is still at 5.0.2, but you can PM them through the forum and twist their arm for 5.0.4 Is it possible to flash OWC firmware, or whoever has released the latest, to the other manufacturers drives?
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Sep 18, 2013 00:04
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Kachunkachunk posted:10% of 750GB is a lot, so I'm not too surprised. It depends on what the drive does with that extra slack space, really. I think the recommendation should be something along the lines of "largest single contiguous file you will ever deal with (probably 8-10gb, even for BF3 patch updates which regularly clock in at about 4.4gb) plus 10%... so about 11GB, which is about 10% of a formatted 128GB SSD. 20GB is probably pushing it, most home drives, especially bigger ones, don't have all that much churn on them. Maybe what, 60GB a week? A month? That's a lot of HD 3D horse porn you're downloading there, buddy.
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Sep 18, 2013 00:34
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This image, from IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, via AnandTech, is what the percentages for overprovisioning are based on: Note that the graph starts at 10% extra space; most consumer drives ship with only ~7% overprovisioning. Fill up a consumer drive to 90% then have your regular OS/page file random writes, and you will get insane write amplification. The link to the paper itself is broken, so I can't tell you why write amplification can go below one, there. If I had to guess, they're probably using a slightly different measure, like instead of amp factor = NAND writes/host writes, which is what people usually mean (and therefore 1.0 = zero write amplification and values less than 1 refer to real-time deduplication), they might do amp factor = (NAND writes - host writes)/host writes, which starts from zero write amp at 0 and goes up from there (dedup would be negative, and 1.0 would be 100% write amplification, or 2.0 on the first scale). I also can't tell you any details about the drive they used, other than this was a 2009 paper, and at the time TRIM was brand new and the hot new drive was the Intel X25-E, the first SSD to not go COMPLETELY to poo poo after all the NAND was written once. The difference between the blue line and the green line is roughly the same difference as almost filling a drive, and almost filling a drive you set aside 20% extra space on.
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Sep 18, 2013 01:08
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If I was going to pick between the Mushkin Enchanced Chrono Deluxe and the Samsung Evo, both 240-ish gig, any opinions which one I should go for? They're about the same price now. I know the mushkin has been around a little while and is proven, whereas the Evo is pretty new but I haven't heard anything bad about it. I can't decide!
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Sep 18, 2013 01:46
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I'm fixing to pull the trigger on a Chrono Deluxe this evening, for my MBP. Anyone knowledgeable about the Mushkin Enhanced ecosystem: what's the difference between MKNSSDCR480GB-DX and MKNSSDCG480GB-DX? Just form factor and price? One says 2.5", the other 1.8". (P.S. I am a little stupid, sorry.)
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Sep 18, 2013 02:18
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A Proper Uppercut posted:If I was going to pick between the Mushkin Enchanced Chrono Deluxe and the Samsung Evo, both 240-ish gig, any opinions which one I should go for? They're about the same price now. I know the mushkin has been around a little while and is proven, whereas the Evo is pretty new but I haven't heard anything bad about it. I can't decide!
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Sep 18, 2013 02:46
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Alereon posted:The Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe 240GB is $174.99 at Newegg, the 7mm version is $5 cheaper. unpronounceable posted:What you should be doing is checking the Canadian site for PC Part Picker. I don't know if it indexes stores that PC Part Picker doesn't, but it can't hurt to give shopbot.ca a try either.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:56
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A quick follow up, once I get the Mushkin Enhanced Chrono 240GB I'm going to do a fresh install of Windows 7 HP64, will I need to or should I update the firmware? If so, can I do that after the OS install?
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Sep 18, 2013 18:53
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whatupdet posted:A quick follow up, once I get the Mushkin Enhanced Chrono 240GB I'm going to do a fresh install of Windows 7 HP64, will I need to or should I update the firmware? If so, can I do that after the OS install? You can do it anytime. It might be at the newest version but you at least could check it out.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:57
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Thanks. In the few years I've had my Corsair I've never once thought about checking for a firmware upgrade, I never think of the less obvious updates.
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Sep 18, 2013 19:03
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Factory Factory posted:The link to the paper itself is broken, so I can't tell you why write amplification can go below one, there. I don't think it accounts for the controller compressing data, so with decent compression you can get below 1.
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Sep 19, 2013 08:19
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Factory Factory posted:This image, from IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, via AnandTech, is what the percentages for overprovisioning are based on: This is the paper you're looking for: http://dmclab.hanyang.ac.kr/wikidata/ssd/2012_ssd_seminar/add_articles/write-ampl.pdf The reason numbers go down to zero is because that variable is the "write amplification factor", which is 1 less than the write amplification. That graph itself depicts the behavior of a naive implementation of SSD firmware. It's from 2009, and maybe the firmware looked like that in practice at the time. The firmware has improved since then. I can definitely say it's improved since 2010, anyway. A lot of tricks you'd do to get good performance on SSDs back then (if you're making a filesystem or database) are no longer applicable. Attached is another graph from the same paper, showing the hypothetical performance of a different algorithm that takes advantage of situations where most data is static.
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Sep 19, 2013 10:16
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shrughes posted:This is the paper you're looking for: http://dmclab.hanyang.ac.kr/wikidata/ssd/2012_ssd_seminar/add_articles/write-ampl.pdf The reason why I didn't use that graph, which AnandTech also quoted, was because it assumed you had different pools of spare blocks for static data and dynamic data. That is, that you essentially put the static data and the dynamic data on different SSDs, because no modern SSDs implement anything like that.
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Sep 19, 2013 15:38
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It's mid-september, as the OP suggests. I apologize for not reading the thread, but holy hell, that's going to take a while. So I'll just ask: Is everyone still skeptical about the Samsung 840 EVO? The Samsung 840 Pro 256GB will cost me $300, while I can get the Samsung 840 EVO 250GB for $224 edit: VVV That one I really should have seen. Thanks! Stein Rockon fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 18:10
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Located only a few posts up.A Proper Uppercut posted:If I was going to pick between the Mushkin Enchanced Chrono Deluxe and the Samsung Evo, both 240-ish gig, any opinions which one I should go for? Alereon posted:At this point if I was buying I'd go with the Samsung 840 Evo, but I'm fine with needing to apply a firmware update down the line. If TRIM might not be enabled or you might have to run the drive more than 75% full a Sandforce drive is probably a better choice, but overall the 840 Evo is the perfect desktop SSD.
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Sep 19, 2013 18:47
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Factory Factory posted:The reason why I didn't use that graph, which AnandTech also quoted, was because it assumed you had different pools of spare blocks for static data and dynamic data. That is, that you essentially put the static data and the dynamic data on different SSDs, because no modern SSDs implement anything like that. Why do you believe this? Taking advantage of static data is exactly what you'd want to do when garbage collecting. I have implemented log-structured on-disk garbage collection myself in a commercial product, and we care about young vs. old data when collecting. It's a natural thing to do that vastly improves performance and it defies belief that the people writing SSD firmware wouldn't pay attention to this. Edit: I just read the paper closely. That graph indeed depicts the performance of an ultra-naive algorithm. In fact it's worse than what I expected. shrughes fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 03:42
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I made a number of updates to the OP, I still need to work on the recommendation sections but I updated the lists. Most noticeable is that the Samsung 840 EVO is now the default recommendation, with a note about its maturity. I also promoted the SanDisk Extreme II to "great high-end drive" status, as I haven't seen any reports of issues. I'm even more pessimistic about the Crucial M500, as it doesn't seem like it will ever be price-competitive with the much faster Samsung 840 EVO, and I'm not sure if I will ever trust firmware reliability even compared to the less mature EVO. I'm not as concerned about longevity on 120GB Samsung 840 Evos as I was/am on the 120GB 840 non-Pro. The SLC caching should reduce write amplification and the number of cycles the TLC memory actually has to endure, as will RAPID mode if enabled. The march of time has also reduced the chances of drives finding their way into misconfigured systems without working TRIM or with misaligned partitions. Alereon fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 21:41
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My Chronos Extreme Pepper Steak is on the truck for delivery today. (EXCITED HANDJIVE SMILEY.)
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Sep 20, 2013 23:10
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I got a Sandisk Extreme II immediately after they came out for $195 so I figure I got a good deal compared to the Samsung 840 Pro. I have had absolutely no problems with this drive which is nice. I guess I do miss the Samsung toolkit, you could for instance schedule a trim pass on an XP system. The Sandisk one is pretty sad compared.
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Sep 20, 2013 23:56
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Alereon posted:I'm not as concerned about longevity on 120GB Samsung 840 Evos as I was/am on the 120GB 840 non-Pro. The SLC caching should reduce write amplification and the number of cycles the TLC memory actually has to endure, as will RAPID mode if enabled. The march of time has also reduced the chances of drives finding their way into misconfigured systems without working TRIM or with misaligned partitions. Wait, so enabling RAPID mode increases the drive's longevity? I've completely ignored it ever since installation barbecue I thought it would shorten lifespan; could you explain a bit how it works a little (I'm illiterate to SSD stuff thus far)? Haeleus fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 04:39
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Haeleus posted:Wait, so enabling RAPID mode increases the drive's longevity? I've completely ignored it ever since installation barbecue I thought it would shorten lifespan; could you explain a bit how it works a little (I'm illiterate to SSD stuff thus far)? Alereon fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 05:33
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I should be getting my new 240GB SSD drive by Tuesday/Wednesday, is there any reason to keep my older 60GB SSD? Debating if I should sell it or keep it but I can't think of any reason to hold onto a 60GB hard drive.
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Sep 21, 2013 20:00
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If you put it into a USB3 enclosure it's theoretically a larger USB stick with up to 200 MB/s transfer rate. Probably not essential to most people, but i've gotten some use out of my old one. What do tiny used SSDs with depleted write levels even sell for these days?
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Sep 21, 2013 20:07
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Probably not much, thanks.
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Sep 21, 2013 20:52
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Alereon posted:Make 100% certain the drive is connected to an Intel SATA port. If that doesn't help, the standard fix is to boot the system, enter BIOS setup, let it sit for ~20 minutes, then exit setup and reboot. If the drive detects, update the firmware to the latest version. If not, RMA it. After I got home I called Mushkin for an RMA and a cross shipment. Mushkin charges extra for cross shipping, and they only ship cross-shipments via Fedex ground. I think both of those things are pretty lovely, considering that the drive only lasted 8 hours or so before flaking out, so I ask 'Brianna' for her manager. Brianna says she doesn't know her manager's extension, so she can't transfer me to him; also she can't waive the fees or ship any faster. I hang up with them without setting up the RMA. So, I check the forums, let it sit at the BIOS screen for a while, rebooted, and it came up. I updated the firmware and all seemed fine until yesterday when it again wouldn't be detected by the BIOS. At this point, I am going to have to eat the $50 RMA fee, send it back to NCIX and pick a different brand. Further research on the issue finds posts on the Mushkin forums, where it appears to be a common problem. http://poweredbymushkin.com/forum/mushkin-solid-state-drives I suggest that the Mushkin Chronos Deluxe be dropped from the 'good mid-range drives' category.
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Sep 21, 2013 21:24
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echo465 posted:Following up on this. Again, this is on a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 480GB drive. What is a cross shipment and why do you need one?
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Sep 21, 2013 22:11
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echo465 posted:At this point, I am going to have to eat the $50 RMA fee, send it back to NCIX and pick a different brand. I don't see any evidence that Mushkin drives are problematic. Mushkin drives sell in pretty high volume and have a lot of happy purchasers in this thread, and the Mushkin support forum you linked seems to show that. Look at the post dates there, those are VERY infrequent complaints for the number of drives Mushkin sells. It seems like support could be more responsive and it would be nicer if they had more generous RMA policies, but they are also a value-focused manufacturer. voltron posted:What is a cross shipment and why do you need one? Alereon fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 22:21
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To offer an opposing view, my Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe, 480GB, is cloned, installed, TRIM-enabled and working quite happily. Just realised I no longer need my Sudden Motion Sensor and disabled that, too. Quick technical note for users of OSX Lion or Mountain Lion: Lion and Mountain Lion have a hidden "Recovery" partition on the main startup disk. If you are planning to clone your existing drive to your new SSD (for example by using Carbon Copy Cloner), be aware that when the "Recovery" partition is cloned, it will use any and all unallocated space on your drive. So you might think you're doing everything right: create 2 partitions, one 80% of the size of the SSD, and one, unallocated, at 20% of the drive space... only to find that after cloning you now have a giant 'Recovery' partition! I got around this by creating 3 partitions: one HFS+ at 20% of the size, labeled "Freespace"; one 2GB unallocated, and one the remainder of the space for my main startup disk. The Recovery partition happily gulps up the 2GB unallocated, leaving you with 2 visible partitions. Clone onto the larger one, then you can swap your drives. You can then either delete the "Freespace" partition, or leave it allocated and use /etc/fstab to set the "Freespace" partition not to mount at boot. Oh, also, if you're using Time Machine you may have to re-associate your backups. (This has been another episode of Things Everyone Already Knew But ChickenOfTomorrow Said Anyway.) ChickenOfTomorrow fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Sep 22, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 23:59
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Latitude E4300, clean installing Vista Business SP2 x64, 120GB Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe MX... should I provision total space minus 20%, or more/less aggressive? They probably will not see much adding/removing of files beyond Word docs, some light duty picture taking, etc.
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Sep 22, 2013 02:40
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