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THE PWNER posted:I find this hard to believe, I've seen maybe 3 dragoons out of a hundred DF groups.  We're not all playing on the same server.I definitely see lots of PLD, WAR, DRG, WHM and BLM. I thought lots of goons were going SCH which seemed odd but I haven't actually seen so many of those at max, maybe people change their minds and go SMN instead  I mean they're the same thing.
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Oct 1, 2013 15:43
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The Chairman posted:Summary of Yoshi-P's post about server transfers. How are login queues on Excalibur during prime time? Has anyone noticed issues?
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Oct 1, 2013 15:45
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mrwuss posted:I see at least two in every 8 man and most times we get one in 4 mans. You see more drg as you do harder stuff because all the good players are past that content. Eventually hm Garuda will be nothing but drg.
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Oct 1, 2013 15:47
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xZAOx posted:How are login queues on Excalibur during prime time? Has anyone noticed issues? Sometimes you have to wait a minute to log in
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Oct 1, 2013 15:48
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I was kind of peeved at how many quests open up to you at 49 when you don't even need the exp anymore. That could have come in real handy at 46 when you left us high and dry for exp SE!
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Oct 1, 2013 15:48
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Zaphod42 posted:
For the purposes of DF, we are! Anecdotal evidence is quite anecdotal though.
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Oct 1, 2013 15:52
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Tried grabbing a PUG for Toto-Rak last night before maintenance on my Conjurer. Of course, being about an hour before maintenance we simply had to try and do it as fast as we could. I politely informed the tank that hey, I can sleep things if you mark them, so please do. He proceeded to pull a group of all of two mobs, one of which made a bee-line for our Arcanist. Sure hope those guys managed to find another healer.
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Oct 1, 2013 15:56
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notZaar posted:I was kind of peeved at how many quests open up to you at 49 when you don't even need the exp anymore. That could have come in real handy at 46 when you left us high and dry for exp SE! I keep hearing about this, but I never really went through that on my way to 50, from 49 to 50 I just did the story line. Maybe you're not doing all the mid 40 areas?
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Oct 1, 2013 15:59
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xZAOx posted:How are login queues on Excalibur during prime time? Has anyone noticed issues? I once waited a whole 2 minutes.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:03
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Oh thank god, I lost a bunch of stuff from my HDD but the character settings weren't one of them. That would have sent me over the goddamn edge if I'd had to remake everything.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:25
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poptart_fairy posted:Oh thank god, I lost a bunch of stuff from my HDD but the character settings weren't one of them. That would have sent me over the goddamn edge if I'd had to remake everything. I seriously copy mine to dropbox daily.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:26
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I once waited a whole 2 minutes. That's bullshit. Spit in Yoshi's eye for me please.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:26
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There's always a dragoon in my parties. It's me. My friends so complain that every dragoon they party with seems to have no clue what they're doing, so maybe the huntard comparison is true.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:31
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The only really bad group I've had was a Cape Westwind group where a DRG kept running up and engaging the boss before the group was ready causing a couple of wipes before half the group quit.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:37
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Nebilim posted:The only really bad group I've had was a Cape Westwind group where a DRG kept running up and engaging the boss before the group was ready causing a couple of wipes before half the group quit. Do you play on a Japanese server by any chance?
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Oct 1, 2013 16:56
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Trying to decide between Monk and Bard as my next class. Is losing Greased Lightning stacks while dodging red circles a big problem? Seems like bard or dragoon would be much more effective if so.
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Oct 1, 2013 16:59
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Coach Sport posted:Trying to decide between Monk and Bard as my next class. Is losing Greased Lightning stacks while dodging red circles a big problem? Seems like bard or dragoon would be much more effective if so. Despite this Monks seem to be doing fine. Their damage is probably scaled with losing their buffs in mind, you can play smart and still do a bunch of damage.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:07
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messagemode1 posted:There's always a dragoon in my parties. When tanking and I see monks and dragoons just standing behind a mob I'm sigh a little at the missed DPS and then am just glad that they're behind the mob.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:13
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 I'm a dragoon. This is the rotation for a dragoon. This does not include any abilities that are off the GCD. It gets a bit crazy at times. With the jumps and off the gcd buffs, you get this: Heavy Thrust---Internal Release---Fracture---Blood for Blood---Phlebotomize---Power Surge---Impulse Drive---Jump---Disembowel---Leg Sweep---Chaos Thrust---True Thrust---Vorpal Thrust---Life Surge---Full Thrust---Heavy Thrust---Fracture---Phlebotomize---True Thrust---Leg Sweep---Vorpal Thrust---Full Thrust---Impulse Drive---Disembowel---Chaos Thrust---Heavy Thrust---Fracture---Jump---Phlebotomize---True Thrust---Leg Sweep---Vorpal Thrust---Full Thrust---True Thrust---Vorpal Thrust---Full Thrust Hurray for a 36 hit rotation, and don't forget you have to be behind the target for Impulse Drive, and flanking the target for Heavy Thrust. It's a bitch, but burning an hour or two practicing this helps. If you want to see if a dragoon is bad or not, just go into an ifrit fight and look and see if he's disemboweling (it's a white-ish debuff). I got my info from: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/79042-Dragoons-A-Rotation-Reborn
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Oct 1, 2013 17:19
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Aug posted:
Holy poo poo.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:22
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Highly deceiving rotation image. All you have to do is keep buffs up, keep dots up, and 123. That's all those rotations are saying to do.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:27
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Agraya posted:Highly deceiving rotation image. All you have to do is keep buffs up, keep dots up, and 123. That's all those rotations are saying to do. This. Rotations are really an outdated concept for most mmos.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:29
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Kinda reminded me of playing my shadow priest in WoW. You could've tried to make a "pretend you're standing still" rotation image that would be complex as hell - but really it was always just a priority list of keeping dots up and using your nukes (and later consuming your orbs or whatever). Whenever you had time to cast, you just hit the priority list. It was fun at least.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:31
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Some people really love their lists.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:33
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:When tanking and I see monks and dragoons just standing behind a mob I'm sigh a little at the missed DPS and then am just glad that they're behind the mob. As a pugilist I want to be mostly beside a mob, not behind it. (Bootshine has a buff from behind - it automatically crits - but the side ones are more important, so if I was only going to do one it would be side.) Does this change?
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Oct 1, 2013 17:33
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Prism posted:As a pugilist I want to be mostly beside a mob, not behind it. (Bootshine has a buff from behind - it automatically crits - but the side ones are more important, so if I was only going to do one it would be side.) Does this change? I'm not super familiar with either class I just know that they have shifting positional requirements. As a tank I would prefer that someone was doing the best DPS they are able but would much rather they pay attention to mechanics and threat.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:37
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THE PWNER posted:For the purposes of DF, we are! Anecdotal evidence is quite anecdotal though. DF was split up even more into smaller groups.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:40
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That image reminded me of a WoW screenshot that was posted on SA a while ago where a Death Knight had his entire rotation laid out on keys 1 through =. So he'd have multiple buttons with the same ability, but he could just go 1234567890-= and repeat for his optimal rotation.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:43
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Pfft, dragoon rotation. Check out Monks, scrub.
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Oct 1, 2013 17:52
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Prism posted:As a pugilist I want to be mostly beside a mob, not behind it. (Bootshine has a buff from behind - it automatically crits - but the side ones are more important, so if I was only going to do one it would be side.) Does this change? The back combo is really underpowered and you should basically be spamming Impulse Drive from DRG while using the flank combo to keep your buffs/debuffs up. It's pretty dumb!
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Oct 1, 2013 17:54
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Terper posted:Pfft, dragoon rotation. Check out Monks, scrub. That's a direct rip of the feral druid rotation from vanilla/bc WoW and it makes me unreasonably upset that someone took it for ffxiv
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Oct 1, 2013 18:01
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Francis posted:The back combo is really underpowered and you should basically be spamming Impulse Drive from DRG while using the flank combo to keep your buffs/debuffs up. It's pretty dumb! I've heard this before, but I only took pugilist to 12 for cross class skills, so I'm not sure I understand. Why is impulse drive something that monks take? Isn't it the (fairly weak potency, on GCD) attack that requires you to be behind the target, the start for the disembowel combo? Is your highest damage literally just "get flank buffs, spam impulse drive from behind until you have to start refreshing buffs"? Doublestep posted:That's a direct rip of the feral druid rotation from vanilla/bc WoW and it makes me unreasonably upset that someone took it for ffxiv Yeah, I'm pretty sure that came from a reddit post that credited it as the FFXIV version of that image. It's not literally exactly the same either, the druid one is more involved and has "teabag dead people" instead of "/sit on dead people". What's the big deal 
Coeurl Marx fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 18:04
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Agraya posted:Highly deceiving rotation image. All you have to do is keep buffs up, keep dots up, and 123. That's all those rotations are saying to do. I'm just trying to point out that it isn't as simple as some of the other classes. The impulse drive - disembowel (debuff) - chaos thrust (DoT) combo requires you to be behind the target for the impulse hit. The disembowel debuff (10% piercing resistance lost) is the second hit of that combo. So if you impulse drive, and it doesn't register as being behind the target, the disembowel hit doesn't apply the debuff, nor does chaos thrust apply the DoT, and you have to start over. It also takes a moment for the game to register if you did it right or not. This leaves you with about a half a second to judge whether you need to impulse drive again or not. The dragoon jumps also lock you into an action for a second which means you have to think about the fight before you jump. I'm not unhappy with the class either, you just have to work your rear end off to do mediocre damage at best.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:12
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Prism posted:As a pugilist I want to be mostly beside a mob, not behind it. (Bootshine has a buff from behind - it automatically crits - but the side ones are more important, so if I was only going to do one it would be side.) Does this change? Here's a video where this monk pulls some pretty good DPS by using the Flank rotations only. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDqzSBUhKY
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Oct 1, 2013 18:19
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Why is it that everyone seems to want to make Dragoons more complicated than they really are? All it is is the 123 combo, using your cooldowns together, and reapplying buffs/dots when they need to be. The only thing you need to think about is when its safe to use your jumps. It shouldn't be some long rotation that you need to practice all it takes is for you to be aware. As to Dragoon damage I remain pretty competitive in my Coil group even with foes requiem being used, I don't really trust parsers yet for real numbers the the trends are pretty consistently close together.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:27
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A lot of that dragoon stuff could be summarized by making it into a 1-2-3 priority list (nice thing about DRG DoTs, as an aside, is that they all do good up-front damage too): 1. Buff + DoT "combo": Heavy Thrust -> Fracture -> Phlebotomize 2. Debuff + DoT combo: Impulse Drive -> Disembowel -> Chaos Thrust 3. Direct-damage combo: True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust 4. Work in off-GCD abilities where sensible (this is hand-waving a lot). For monks, each of our stances has its own priority list within the bigger priority list: 1. Obtain/maintain Greased Lightning by 1-2-3 comboing; only use other GCD moves if Greased Lightning timer is safe. 2. If enemy will live long enough, maintain Touch of Death (30 sec). (Trivial up-front damage, DoT has to play out to justify its use.) 3. Maintain Fracture (18 sec). (Up-front damage is decent enough that even a few DoT ticks justify it.) 4. Work in off-GCD abilities where sensible (this is also hand-waving a lot). Combo 1 (fresh pull, no stance buff): 1. Dragon Kick (flank) if flank accessible. 2. Bootshine otherwise. Combo 1 (when comboing): 1. Dragon Kick (pref. flank) to maintain debuff (15 sec, can be refreshed by other monks). 2. Dragon Kick (flank) if flank accessible and either a. rear inaccessible or b. Internal Release is active. 3. Bootshine (pref. rear) otherwise. Combo 2: 1. One Ilm Punch if enemy has a buff both dispellable and dispel-worthy. (This tends not to actually happen in practice.) 2. Twin Snakes (pref. flank) to maintain buff (12 sec). 3. True Strike (pref. rear) otherwise. Combo 3: 1. Snap Punch (pref. flank) if Internal Release is active. 2. Demolish to maintain DoT (18 sec) if enemy will live long enough (no up-front damage at all). 3. Snap Punch (pref. flank) otherwise. All of the above is assuming single-target for both jobs. On Impulse Drive as a monk: In theory, you could set it and work it into the overall priority list. Both Fracture (100 + 20*6 = 220 total potency of which 100 can crit) and Touch of Death (20 + 25*10 = 270 total potency of which 20 can crit) are more total potency than Impulse Drive (180 from rear, all of which can crit), so you'd favor the DoTs over it for anything with a lot of health left but might favor it over DoTs under Internal Release or for nearly dead enemies. In practice, though, the game doesn't really have Patchwerk fights, and half the time as a monk you're doing your standard combos just to get your Greased Lightning going again, grumbling resentfully all the while at the DPS jobs that are faster at going 0-60. Working in other stuff is a luxury only once you're happily comboing at GL3, and the only reason you'd use DoTs before GL3 is because they're DoTs and benefit from being used sooner rather than later. (I haven't actually done the math out to figure out whether it's better to beeline GL3, then apply DoTs, or apply DoTs early even though they get less GL damage boost and delay getting GL3.) So in the real world, while you could optimize things a bit by working in Impulse Drive once you're happily comboing a single stationary target (with no positional woes) at GL3, it's rare that you'll actually meet all the little tick-marks for "Impulse Drive is worth using". Particularly considering that maintaining your buffs, debuffs, and DoTs is a bigger DPS increase than using a 180 potency ability instead of a 130 potency autocrit (basically 195 potency), a 140 or 150 potency ability depending on which combo 2 you're on, or a different 180 potency ability. Personally, I'd rather have my last two cross-class buttons (after the obvious Fracture, Invigorate, and Blood for Blood) go to defensive oh-poo poo abilities. TL;DR: It's a lot of situational-ness and a lot of PITA factor for what would at best be a pretty marginal improvement compared to the alternatives. Now if we could cross-class some 300 potency ability to work in, I might be singing a different tune. Vil fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 18:42
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Ruder posted:I've heard this before, but I only took pugilist to 12 for cross class skills, so I'm not sure I understand. Why is impulse drive something that monks take? Isn't it the (fairly weak potency, on GCD) attack that requires you to be behind the target, the start for the disembowel combo? Is your highest damage literally just "get flank buffs, spam impulse drive from behind until you have to start refreshing buffs"? Impulse Drive's 'fairly weak potency' of 180 is the highest monks can get. Bootshine's autocrit makes it slightly stronger, but at the cost of the DK debuff. True Strike is worthless. The Lazy Monk rotation is still very close, and definitely more consistent on a fight with moderate movement and target switching (anything like HM Ifrit/Garuda and you're screwed regardless). On something that's basically a striking dummy, though, you get more damage out of Impulse Drive than you do refreshing your buffs early. Monk is the only class where skill speed isn't total garbage, so that's cool. edit: Defensive oh-poo poo abilities? Bloodbath and Keen Flurry are both pretty awful. The question is whether it's worth the time practicing and mastering the rotation for the minor, situational DPS increase, not whether you can fit it into your build. Francis fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 1, 2013 |
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Oct 1, 2013 18:46
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KillTrash posted:Here's a video where this monk pulls some pretty good DPS by using the Flank rotations only.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:47
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ilifinicus posted:This person is doing barely above 200 DPS in this video, the parser is wrong. How does the parser randomly give him more damage? Does it report some things twice or something? I thought it's only bad with activity time and not picking some things up.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:56
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Francis posted:edit: Defensive oh-poo poo abilities? Bloodbath and Keen Flurry are both pretty awful. The question is whether it's worth the time practicing and mastering the rotation for the minor, situational DPS increase, not whether you can fit it into your build. Fair enough, they are both pretty awful. That said, apparently you agree that the increase is both minor and situational, and also that it's a more-than-minor increase to the PITA factor. Remember that a human is not a computer, and a 98% optimal rotation that can be pulled off 100% of the time is better than a 100% optimal rotation that makes things confusing enough that it's only pulled off, say, 90% of the time. Especially since in monk's case, the cost of a timing blunder could very well be GL3 falling off, and at that point you've easily lost whatever benefits you might have gained. If you like doing it and are practiced enough to do it consistently and blunder-free (while still being able to focus on the general flow of combat and things to react to, rather than tunnel-visioning your complex rotation), more power to you. I'm a terrible horrible bad player, and as far as I'm concerned, the reward doesn't justify either the risk of lost GL3 or the general PITA factor.
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Oct 1, 2013 18:58
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