|
DangerKat posted:If only, Doltos, if only I hate being wrong about QB prospects. I'm usually dead on and the only blatant ones I've missed so far are Matt Ryan and Bradford. drat Ryan for being a frat boy and making me see red instead of the good QB. Edit oh and Ponder but that was because arguing that Ponder is a good QB is fun
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
Doltos posted:I hate being wrong about QB prospects. I'm usually dead on and the only blatant ones I've missed so far are Matt Ryan and Bradford. drat Ryan for being a frat boy and making me see red instead of the good QB.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:24
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:After thinking about it more though, it's not as though the Jags are an old team with a short window. If they take Clowney this year and a quarterback next year, they'll still have a young core to build around. Possibly, though I imagine the front office impetus will be to get a QB in this next draft no matter what. They went 2-14 last season and are running the risk of a 0-1 win season this year, and the face of that gigantic pile of failure is Gabbert (and to a slightly lesser extent, Henne). Henne's contract is up after this season anyway, and it's hard to figure they'll resign him even backup money considering how little an improvement he is over Gabbert. They have to put someone new at QB this off season, so unless they aggressively pursue Cutler or manage to land someone of at least Schaub-level ability via free agency, that 1st round pick will be a quarterback. (Not that I would be opposed to taking Clowney instead, because that defense needs almost as much help as the offense, but I think they're going to feel forced into taking Bridgewater or Mariota or whomever just because of how terrible that position has been for three seasons running now.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
Here are some dumb bold QB predictions: + careers: Bridgewater, Mariota, Hundley, Manziel, Mathews, Price, Mannion, Keeton - careers: Boyd, McCarron, Murray, Morris, Mettenberger, Fales, Nova, Renner, Carr Logan Thomas will be converted to TE, Braxton Miller will be converted to WR
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:41
|
|
|
pangstrom posted:I know this is basically impossible and if you're even a third right you get full credit, but how would you rate/rank some of the QBs (individually) in this class? Rank them or predict their bust/success? With a straight rank right now I have: 1. Bridgewater 2. Mariota 3. Hundley 4. Carr 5. Boyd If I had to guess, one of Hundley, Manziel, or Mariota will go back for another season, with probably only Mariota coming out this year. If that is the case, I'd move up McCarron and Mettenberger, although they're both probably muddled with Petty, Bortles, and Fales.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:47
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:Here are some dumb bold QB predictions: Ah I like that. Mine would be: + careers: Bridgewater, Murray, Carr, Hundley, Mariota, McCarron, Bortles - careers: Boyd (times ten), Manziel, Petty, Mettenberger, Fales, Nova (times 50), Morris Logan Thomas will be converted to TE, Braxton Miller will be converted to WR, neither will stick on a team. I'd also like to think Renner will have a magical career and Bortles will be the next Tom Brady. In reality I think the only QB we'll care about in 5 years is Bridgewater and an overrated Mariota. Carr will find some odd success as a Case Keenum type story while Hundley and Manziel will be murdered Pat White sytle. Petty will drink himself into several DUIs followed by extensive pill abuse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 15:52
|
|
|
Prozach posted:As someone who grew up less than 15 miles from where he lived, who watched him play all throughout high school, who watched him struggle to do anything worthwhile in college, and who never understood why Mel Kiper was fascinated with him going back to when he was projected 1st overall at the beginning of the 2010-11 season, I am still shocked that Jake Locker isn't the one who ended up becoming Blaine Gabbert from that draft class. He hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire either, but I remember a Redskins fan in that draft thread toxxing himself by saying that he would mail his poo poo to Dan Snyder if the Redskins took him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:00
|
|
|
Bortles! He's definitely staying another year though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:13
|
|
|
Ozu posted:Bortles! He's definitely staying another year though. The rest of the UCF offensive weapons are all juniors so I dunno. I feel like they might stick around for another season but I don't know why Bortles would want to test the even tougher QB pool next year when he could be a third rounder this year.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I hate being wrong about QB prospects. I'm usually dead on and the only blatant ones I've missed so far are Matt Ryan and Bradford. drat Ryan for being a frat boy and making me see red instead of the good QB. Can you post some of your previous stuff on quarterbacks so we can compare? I like reading those things, just like Bewbies posted, and not many people have access to it like you two
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:18
|
|
|
Ozu posted:Yeah Gabbert was definitely high on the draft board, enough so that Tennessee taking Locker over him was a pretty decent surprise. I cannot possibly stress enough how glad I am this didn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:23
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:If he pans out, and if he doesn't get injured. That said if Bridgewater was on the board I'd take him over Clowney, but he's the only QB in the draft I'd say that about. After Teddy it's a big clump of relatively equivalent prospects that just have different sets of limitations. Granted I'm fully aware that toothy fucker Spielman will take a QB no matter what so this is all moot. Doltos posted:I don't think Clowney is generational. This is mainly because Mario Williams was bigger, faster, and stronger, and he wasn't generational either. *fart*
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 16:54
|
|
|
He may not be generational but most people would enjoy having Mario on their team.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 17:03
|
|
|
Gendo posted:I think you underrate the impact an elite defensive end can have on a defense. I want Minnesota to restock the line this year with a pass rushing end and a disruptive nose tackle. Being able to generate pressure with your front four masks a lot of ills at the second level, and there's a lot of work to be done back there yet. Just look at what Mike Zimmer can do with the Bengals' d-line and a secondary that's relying heavily on Adam Jones, Terrence Newman and signing Chris Crocker off the street as a free agent mid season every year.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 17:21
|
|
|
Gendo posted:I think you underrate the impact an elite defensive end can have on a defense. I want Minnesota to restock the line this year with a pass rushing end and a disruptive nose tackle. Being able to generate pressure with your front four masks a lot of ills at the second level, and there's a lot of work to be done back there yet. Having watched the entirety of DeMarcus Ware's career, you need more than an elite pass rusher (whether it be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB). One alone is not going to cover for a weak secondary, as evidenced by Dallas' defense the past few seasons. Last year when we got several games out of Ware, Anthony Spencer and Jason Hatcher together the secondary was still weak and gave up a lot of yards. Besides, isn't Jared Allen a counterexample himself? He's a borderline HoF talent and it's not like Minnesota has had great defenses during his time there. Elite pass rushers are important pieces but you need more than one great player on a defense. Clowney can be a good pick for Minnesota, but expecting a dramatic turnaround simply because you've added him seems a little premature.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
Crazy Larry posted:Just look at what Mike Zimmer can do with the Bengals' d-line and a secondary that's relying heavily on Adam Jones, Terrence Newman and signing Chris Crocker off the street as a free agent mid season every year. The Bengals case has a lot to do with individual coaching over scheme, if that makes sense. Like Zimmer isn't using fancy coverages or anything to hide Newman, but rather Newman has played his position better than he ever has under Zimmer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 17:37
|
|
|
Goetta posted:The Bengals case has a lot to do with individual coaching over scheme, if that makes sense. Like Zimmer isn't using fancy coverages or anything to hide Newman, but rather Newman has played his position better than he ever has under Zimmer. Well, my point was more to do with the fact that outside of the stacked defensive line the Bengals defense is relying on a lot of guys who are regarded as cast offs, over the hill, or disappointments. Though I guess that doesn't necessarily prove that they're untalented rather than Cincy just having a really good defensive coaching staff all around.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 17:59
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Having watched the entirety of DeMarcus Ware's career, you need more than an elite pass rusher (whether it be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB). One alone is not going to cover for a weak secondary, as evidenced by Dallas' defense the past few seasons. Last year when we got several games out of Ware, Anthony Spencer and Jason Hatcher together the secondary was still weak and gave up a lot of yards. Even in 2009 the Vikings defense, while great against the run, was only mediocre against the past and they actually had the league's worst pass defense in 2011/2012 by DVOA. It's difficult to think that a DE is going to change things when their secondary is so bad. I think the Cowboys analogy is pretty appropriate, though Dallas had a better secondary still.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
Gendo posted:*fart* I'm going off of the rating system that Bewbies has for terminology which I think is a pretty accurate assessment. Clowney will suffer from the same problems Williams did coming into the league, mainly AAA DOLFAN posted:Can you post some of your previous stuff on quarterbacks so we can compare? I like reading those things, just like Bewbies posted, and not many people have access to it like you two I'm actually interested in my own statement because I'm not quite positive if posting history would back it up. I would like to start doing write ups like bewbies if people don't mind text walls.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I'm going off of the rating system that Bewbies has for terminology which I think is a pretty accurate assessment. Clowney will suffer from the same problems Williams did coming into the league, mainly You should do it, there's no point to having a draft thread if Bewbies is the only one who's going to contribute. Daltos posted:Also gently caress it, I got all day and nothing to do so here's some pros and cons of the top QBs with highlights. in response to a question someone had about rg3 posted:I haven't watched him yet this year so I'm going only off of the highlights I see on youtube.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 18:23
|
|
|
Rap posted:It's all still up in the air, but if Clowney proves himself absolutely incredible at DE then you just take him and take a QB in round 2. And sign Jason Campbell or Matt Schaub or Josh Freeman or whoever hits the market that year. I don't think trading down is a wise option, it's hard to get a fair return for it. Yeah, if Cutler and/or Schaub hit the open market this offseason (which I don't think they will, but hell it's all hypothetical at this point) Jacksonville signs one of them, takes Clowney and then they've improved massively at two positions without having to walk the tightrope of developing a QB prospect. Then they can take one of the midround guys if they're especially enamored with a particular guy with rough edges and bring him along slowly, or wait.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 19:42
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I'm going off of the rating system that Bewbies has for terminology which I think is a pretty accurate assessment. Clowney will suffer from the same problems Williams did coming into the league, mainly Anyways. I'm 99% sure the VIkings are going to draft Johnny Manziel. Then maybe I can finally just quit sports and move onto something else unproductive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:11
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:You should do it, there's no point to having a draft thread if Bewbies is the only one who's going to contribute. I use the word very too much. I'll do a write up on the QBs soon then.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:22
|
|
|
Gendo posted:Ugh Daltos. You could take up curling. There's a curling club downtown, right across the street from a pretty awesome Russian restaurant. Fill your days with borscht and sweeping.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
Doltos posted:I'm going off of the rating system that Bewbies has for terminology which I think is a pretty accurate assessment. Clowney will suffer from the same problems Williams did coming into the league, mainly If there is one thing we seem to eat up its draft prospect stuff. I'd vote do it
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Gendo posted:Ugh Daltos. Perfect. Pick him up in the 4th, and make him sit on the bench and bulk up until Freeman is like 30. Then see if he understands passing schemes enough to win the starting job. I'd love to see him go to a good situation where they let him grow up a bit on the bench before they start beating his body into nothing. Like how Reggie Bush should have been brought up. What'll really happen is somebody is going to draft Manziel in the second, and start him way too early. Tamba Hali could put him in a wheelchair right now. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
Why does Manziel being six feet tall also make him glass? Dude led the SEC in rushing, he is really good at avoiding/minimizing hits from various large scary men. I realize I am an Aggie homer, but it's not like I don't think he's a risk. But if he busts it will be because he chucks the ball off his back foot into triple coverage too many times, not because he will explode after his first sack.
Elotana fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 31, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:42
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Having watched the entirety of DeMarcus Ware's career, you need more than an elite pass rusher (whether it be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB). One alone is not going to cover for a weak secondary, as evidenced by Dallas' defense the past few seasons. Last year when we got several games out of Ware, Anthony Spencer and Jason Hatcher together the secondary was still weak and gave up a lot of yards. "Quick turnaround" shouldn't be the draft strategy of a team facing a glaring talent gap like Minnesota or Jacksonville. Draft picks shouldn't be valued based on their potential to turn around an entire offense or defense on its own. Only a few rare quarterbacks have that ability, and its extremely unlikely Bridgewater is on that level. Of course you need more than one great player on a defense, but you have to start adding those players at some point. Plus, even if Clowney is the only worthwhile player on Minnesota, he WILL make the rest of the team better. Taking a guy like Clowney forces teams to double team him, making the rest of the line far more likely to pressure the quarterback and opening holes for linebackers. If the linebackers and linemen are poo poo players, this won't have a huge impact, but that's a separate issue. If you want to see what impact a dominant DE can have on a team, look to Carolina with Julius Peppers. Hell, look what Detroit's defense has turned into with Suh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:44
|
|
|
Elotana posted:Why does Manziel being six feet tall also make him glass? Dude led the SEC in rushing, he is really good at avoiding/minimizing hits. I realize I am an Aggie homer, but it's not like I don't think he's a risk. But if he busts it will be because he chucks the ball off his back foot into triple coverage too many times, not because he will explode after his first sack. Dude, he's like, 180 pounds. He looks like a stick figure. I don't think he gets up from hits like this, that every dual threat QB can get hit with at any time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yrcES2vL0 Plus he's what, 21? Most QB's don't start until they are 24 at the youngest, and with his size, I wouldn't doubt it if he's 26 before he'd really start to show his potential and look serviceable. He needs to put on weight, get practice and preseason time, and get some experience with a team while keeping his head down.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:53
|
|
|
Emanuel Collective posted:"Quick turnaround" shouldn't be the draft strategy of a team facing a glaring talent gap like Minnesota or Jacksonville. Draft picks shouldn't be valued based on their potential to turn around an entire offense or defense on its own. I agree, but I think the conclusion you should draw from this line of reasoning is not that "Clowney is a guy you can build around" (he is), but rather that the Vikings have enough needs that their goal should be trading down to improve the number of picks they have.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:54
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Having watched the entirety of DeMarcus Ware's career, you need more than an elite pass rusher (whether it be a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB). One alone is not going to cover for a weak secondary, as evidenced by Dallas' defense the past few seasons. Last year when we got several games out of Ware, Anthony Spencer and Jason Hatcher together the secondary was still weak and gave up a lot of yards. The Giants won a Superbowl on the back of a great defensive line and not much else 6 years ago. And Eli bullshit
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Quarterbacks This is nine weeks into the NCAAF season assuming the current prospects will all declare: Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville, 1st #2 rated prospect coming into Louisville. Good height (6'3) for his position but a little thin. Took some big hits in his career. Smart player, makes the correct reads and makes snap decisions. Could use work on the deep ball. Gets comparisons to Russell Wilson due to the release. Steps into his throws and makes his release point a bit lower than ideal. Not terribly mobile but can move well in the pocket. Probably the #1 pick but is getting discounted due to his competition. Looked mortal against stouter defenses in UCF and Rutgers, although still played well. Similar player: Drew Brees Marcus Mariota, Oregon, 1st Tall and strong QB. Exceptional athlete. Called a system QB but the system wouldn't run well without him. Excels against tougher competition. Oregon is running everyone out of the building this year, including Hundley led Bruins. Incredible arm strength with a quick release. Terrible footwork and spotty accuracy will hurt him. Throws too much while shuffling his feet and is prone to ill advised throws. Similar player: Colin Kaepernick Brett Hundley, UCLA, 1st-2nd Two sport athlete with false measurements. Seems smaller than his listed height (6'3) and weight (220). Strong arm and accurate. Makes bad decisions though, has more picks than most of the other top rated QBs in this draft. Can pull it down and move. Rumors about his involvement with JayZ's agency might propel him to declare early (Redshirt sophomore). Similar player: Ryan Tannehill Derek Carr, Fresno State, 1st-2nd From the illustrious Carr bloodlines. Followed his brother to Fresno State and is rivaling his production there. Named his son Dallas. Strong arm with decent mechanics in a vertical passing system. Strong junior year continues with an undefeated season so far. Makes bad decisions when his WRs don't have the sideline. Smaller than Bridgewater and Hundley, will need to put on weight. Similar player: Christian Ponder Tajh Boyd, Clemson, 1st-2nd Incredibly hyped coming into the season but nearly fell flat on his face at Georgia. Coaches remarked that Boyd nearly cost the game due to his inability to translate calls from the sideline. Huge arm. Exceptional athlete than can make frozen rope passes on the move. Sticks it out in the pocket and can take hits due to his frame. Short, though (6'1). Likes to run more than throw and will duck into a hit rather than moving away from it in the pocket. I yell that he's stupid a lot when I watch Clemson games. Similar player: Russell Wilson Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M, 1st-2nd One of the most exciting college football players to ever play the sport. Magical things happen when he touches the ball. Completed a pass to Mike Evans earlier this year that went for 37 total yards for a gain of 17 yards after a seven second scramble. Great athlete that can deliver strikes and outrun defenders. Small, tiny frame will get him pummeled into a red smear in the NFL. Throws awkward open shoulder passes and across his body. Has happy feet. Well known character issues. Similar player: If Tony Romo and Denard Robinson had a love child Aaron Murray, Georgia, 2nd Accomplished starter playing for an injury ravaged team. Exceptionally strong arm for a short QB. Undersized, can't scramble either. Known as a team leader and captain. Impressive touch on short passes, accuracy non existent on deep balls. Three year starter against elite competition, plays well in tough games. Similar player: Matt Barkley Zach Mettenberger, LSU, 2nd-3rd Huge QB with a big arm. Good pocket presence. Has the benefit of playing on a strong team with two draft-worthy WRs. JUCO transfer, led his community college to a national championship berth. Makes bad decisions. Could use a lot of schooling. Les Miles likes to produce poison pill QBs. Similar player: Ben Roethlisberger Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech, 2nd-3rd Elite athlete. Huge. Sucks at QB. Can't throw a ball worth a poo poo. Former TE, converted when he came to the Hokies. Scouts have been looking for him to improve for years now and he's only getting worse. Ranked high because someone will turn him into a TE again and you can't pass up on a 6'6 250 lbs dude who runs a 4.6. Similar player: If Jimmy Graham was a QB Stephen Morris, Miami, 3rd Decent sized QB with a decent arm. Has the athleticism to pull it down and run. Often chooses to do so when there's pressure in his face. Good touch on short routes, could improve intermediate. Panics and throws INTs. Miami is 7-0 so he's getting spotlight and performing decently. Got abused by North Carolina's pass rush. Similar player: Kirk Cousins AJ McCarron, Alabama, 3rd Has just the most terrible tattoo to ever grace a college athlete, which is an accomplishment in its own right. It makes the next point kind of null and void. Smart. Good arm, good accuracy. Can't throw the deep ball. Compact throwing motion and gets it out quick. Trained to be a game manager and is excelling in that role. Can tuck and run it. Good sized, could put on a few more pounds. Similar player: Chad Pennington. Others David Fales, San Jose State, 3rd-5th Good arm, good accuracy. Can't run. San Jose State's passing attack highlights quick dart throws with not a lot of other reads. Benefits greatly from this. Braxton Miller, Ohio State, 3rd-5th Destroys slow Big Ten defenses with his speed. Not a QB at the next level. Can't hit the broadside of the barn. Bryce Petty, Baylor, 3rd-5th Four year junior, might go back another year and try to make a crack at the first round. Has the face of a 45 year old alcoholic. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois, 4th-6th Shorter but stout. Good accuracy and can move. Plays against weak FBS competition. Kind of an underwhelming arm. His uncle is on the township committee for my town. Keith Price, Washington, 5th-7th Tiny. Good game manager. Slow for a small guy. Can put the ball where it needs to go. Bryn Renner, North Carolina, 5th-7th Good athlete. Lacking the team that made him a name last year. Plays baseball as well. Kind of underwhelming package with sub-par arm strength.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:32
|
|
|
Derek Carr has a kid already? drat that's Missouri as hell get him on the Chiefs
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:35
|
|
|
Stephen Morris decent arm? Uh, he might have the biggest arm in all of college football. He just has absolute poo poo for accuracy. Edit: I feel bad for whichever team draft Tahj Boyd, especially in the first two rounds.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:40
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Has just the most terrible tattoo to ever grace a college athlete How is it possible to have a worse tattoo than Bray?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:43
|
|
|
Which of those QBs pass the Parcells test besides McCarron?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:43
|
|
|
Elotana posted:Why does Manziel being six feet tall also make him glass? Dude led the SEC in rushing, he is really good at avoiding/minimizing hits from various large scary men. You mean except for the times he runs directly into defenders and gets completely blown up and injured.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:51
|
|
|
DupaDupa posted:How is it possible to have a worse tattoo than Bray?   Judge for yourself TheChirurgeon posted:Which of those QBs pass the Parcells test besides McCarron? Murray and Carr I believe.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 21:52
|
|
|
Ungratek posted:The Giants won a Superbowl on the back of a great defensive line and not much else 6 years ago. And Eli bullshit And they had more than one good player on defense. Like I've said repeatedly, Clowney will need supporting help so it's unwise to expect that he alone is going to transform the Jaguars/Vikings defense. I don't think I've said that Jacksonville should reach for a quarterback instead of taking Clowney. I merely stated that it would be better for them to trade down if they got a monster haul in return (multiple firsts, a second plus something else). That value is probably more than just adding Clowney himself. There have been studies that conclude that no particular team is better or worse at drafting; they more or less hit on the same number of players. There is a noticeable drop-off in talent after the third round, so maximizing your picks in the first three rounds appears to be the optimal strategy for drafting. The GM also has the benefit of being relatively new at the position, and works with an owner who is comfortable tanking in the near term. So he should not be fearing his job, but instead be comfortable making trades to maximize their returns because rookies are more valuable to them than practically any other team. If Clowney is the #1 prospect and there are no good trade offers, Jacksonville would not be unwise to select him over a quarterback. Just don't expect him to dramatically change their defense Day 1.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 22:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
Dusseldorf posted:You mean except for the times he runs directly into defenders and gets completely blown up and injured. Elotana fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Oct 31, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2013 22:58
|
|