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Segmentation Fault posted:Those people are chronically wrong. Because reasons! But not really. I'm not sure what's better about Doom 1. The pathetically easy enemies and lack of danger? Excessive forced trips into damage sectors? Bizarre and random level design? Being first? eta: The only way I could see it being an even remotely reasonable argument is if you only counted Knee Deep in the Dead, which is definitely good, but you also have to deal with The Shores of Hell, which sucks. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 19:21
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RyokoTK posted:Bizarre and random level design? 
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Nov 7, 2013 19:28
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You know, Doom 2's concept of "Downtown" might be a bunch of big bland square buildings arranged in a square, but at least I can correlate the level title with the level itself (also the game is called Hell on Earth).
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Nov 7, 2013 19:31
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Map packs that name their levels after actual places, instead of mysterious, ominous phrases, or nebulous concepts, can eat my rear end.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:32
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I find D2TWID goes well with this Inverted Music WAD that came out a couple of weeks ago. It takes the normal Doom and Doom II music and changes all the notes - low becomes high and vice versa.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:32
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Zero Star posted:I find D2TWID goes well with this Inverted Music WAD that came out a couple of weeks ago. It takes the normal Doom and Doom II music and changes all the notes - low becomes high and vice versa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6VZE9WC2kM It's like falling into the world's most horrifying carnival.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:38
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Third Episode MAP21: Solitude MAP22: Despair MAP23: Anger MAP24: Hatred MAP25: Envy MAP26: Fear MAP27: Terror MAP28: Run From It MAP29: Hell on Earth MAP30: Fire and Ice God bless Scythe.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:40
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RyokoTK posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6VZE9WC2kM This is terrifying
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Nov 7, 2013 19:49
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Map packs that name their levels after actual places, instead of mysterious, ominous phrases, or nebulous concepts, can eat my rear end. You're right, the Marathon games have much better level titles than the Doom games.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:56
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Oh god what have I started  I was mostly being facetious. I like Doom II, but I feel its only saving grace is the increased monster diversity. I find most of the maps just terrible. RyokoTK posted:You know, Doom 2's concept of "Downtown" might be a bunch of big bland square buildings arranged in a square, but at least I can correlate the level title with the level itself (also the game is called Hell on Earth). I suppose I can appreciate this, even if I find it difficult to identify with. I guess if I feel like being immersed in a game world Doom is one of the last games I would turn to. I'm more than willing to suspend belief if it means having way fewer open levels littered with giant rectangles.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:58
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My problem is more that Doom's level design is very random and nonsensical; most of the levels don't really have a "form" you can associate with them, or some kind of core component that makes one map distinct from another. At least with Doom 2, I can think of any two levels and how they're definitely different. There's usually a combination of setting choices, texturing decisions, and enemy usage or compositions that make each level have a distinct challenge. Even Doom 2's weird levels (like Monster Condo or Gotcha!) are miles ahead of horseshit like Limbo or Deimos Lab.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:08
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Why is it called a 'hangar', you can't land a spaceship on a lake of acid
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Nov 7, 2013 20:12
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Just gonna pour some gas on this sparking argument and say that, especially in comparison to the better level packs available now, there's not much reason to play either Doom or Doom 2's vanilla sets. Neither have aged particularly well, and it's clear that iD were still learning the ropes and refining their tools through the whole process.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:12
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I dunno, the nonsensical level design of Doom I&II is part of the games' charm, as far as I'm concerned. 
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Nov 7, 2013 20:14
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Dominic White posted:Just gonna pour some gas on this sparking argument and say that, especially in comparison to the better level packs available now, there's not much reason to play either Doom or Doom 2's vanilla sets. Neither have aged particularly well, and it's clear that iD were still learning the ropes and refining their tools through the whole process. They were also made in the early 1990s. I think this is what made DTWID (the first one) really good. It's like, let's take 20 years of mapping skill and level design knowledge and make a game like Doom 1 with the design conventions that modern day Doom fans are used to. DTWID is really good. D2TWID is not very good, at least to me, and in reality the first time I played one of the earlier release candidates I thought it was a subtle "Doom 2 sucks!" dig because the early levels in particular are really, really boring, bland, and under-thought. MAP05 is called The Boiler and has several extended sequences of forced running through damage sectors, which is absolutely the PYF Thing Dragging Doom 1 Down. It improves in the middle but it doesn't really feel right to me, whereas DTWID was executed really well.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:17
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Doom 2 has better balanced gameplay, counterbalanced by absolutely awful maps. Doom 1's map quality takes a nosedive after episode 1 and it gets really loving tiresome killing poo poo with the regular shotgun.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:30
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Zero Star posted:Why is it called a 'hangar', you can't land a spaceship on a lake of acid Obviously the "Hangar" portion of Hangar resides behind the door you entered the map from, geez. Doomguy was probably stuck with "watch the landing craft" duty up until the moment everyone else died, so that's where the expansive, properly-scaled and immaculately-detailed landing bay would be.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:30
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Doom 2 has better balanced gameplay, counterbalanced by absolutely awful maps. Doom 1's map quality takes a nosedive after episode 1 and it gets really loving tiresome killing poo poo with the regular shotgun. Inferno's maps are as good, if not better, than Knee-Deep in the Dead's maps  I will admit that The Shores of Hell and Thy Flesh Consumed are sub-par, but I do tend to enjoy them more than a majority of Doom II's levels. Then again, I generally like Thy Flesh Consumed overall, which is often derided.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:36
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e: I'm done derailing about Doom vs Doom 2.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:39
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RyokoTK posted:e: I'm done derailing about Doom vs Doom 2. I don't think its a derail to talk about classic fps games in the classic fps games thread. Inferno has some great maps but its visually so much messier than kditd
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Nov 7, 2013 20:48
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Map packs that name their levels after actual places, instead of mysterious, ominous phrases, or nebulous concepts, can eat my rear end. Duke Nukem 3D: Duke it Out in DC
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Nov 7, 2013 20:49
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Doom 2's city levels are so boring and bad I haven't finished the game yet. Doom 1 has that one level that literally hurt my eyes and wasn't much fun to play. I can't remember what map it was though, I thought it was House of Pain, but I guess it wasn't? I think it was in Inferno.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:55
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Who cares about Doom II's base maps, come on.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:55
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catlord posted:Doom 2's city levels are so boring and bad I haven't finished the game yet. Doom 1 has that one level that literally hurt my eyes and wasn't much fun to play. I can't remember what map it was though, I thought it was House of Pain, but I guess it wasn't? I think it was in Inferno. You're probably talking about Mt. Erebus on another note, am I the only one who prefers the episodic format in doom 1 over Doom II's?
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Nov 7, 2013 21:04
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NoodleBox posted:You're probably talking about Mt. Erebus I'm back and forth on it. The thing I hate about most wads is that first level where you only get the boring, weak guns and fight only boring, weak enemies. I don't need another refresher course where I use my pistol and chainsaw against a couple dozen imps, right?
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Nov 7, 2013 21:06
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NoodleBox posted:You're probably talking about Mt. Erebus Yup, that is indeed the one. gently caress Mt. Erebus.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:09
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OK, D2TWID is officially a great WAD. Sure, it starts off slow, but the final boss battle is epic and makes ingenious use of the enemy AI (the only way out of the red key room is to wait for a monster to come and open the door from the outside), and MAP32 is a one-on-one battle against the Dopefish in an 8-bit underwater-themed maze.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:40
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I used to defend Doom 2's map design, and then I eventually realized I was doing it entirely for the sake of Tricks and Traps. I love that map.  Some of the city levels, though. Jesus. Downtown stopped a Brutal Doom run me and my friends were doing because the map is so dull.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:44
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RyokoTK posted:You're right, the Marathon games have much better level titles than the Doom games. This better not be sarcasm because for my money there are few level names as classic as "Eat It, Vid Boi," "You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time!," and "(The Big Floaty) Thing What Kicks (Our Asses)"
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Nov 7, 2013 22:19
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"If I Had A Rocket Launcher I'd Make Somebody Pay" is the best level name anywhere ever.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:25
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Who cares about deetootwid when a much better addon was released recently? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0AdWBmiQY Vintage graphics with modern game design sensibilities. Best of both worlds.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:59
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haveblue posted:"If I Had A Rocket Launcher I'd Make Somebody Pay" is the best level name anywhere ever. I had to go back and listen to that song because the only line I remembered was "If I had a rocket launcher, some son of a bitch would die." So, are there any upcoming mods you guys are looking forward to? I found this, and I started wondering if there was anything else that people were looking forward to.
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Nov 7, 2013 23:04
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Cat Mattress posted:Who cares about deetootwid when a much better addon was released recently? "Chubzdoomer 1 day ago in reply to joyrock Must be why everyone but you seems to be getting a real kick out of it. I'm going to do you, me, and everyone else a favor and block your little prissy rear end. Have a nice day!"  Is this an Arthmoor mod.
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Nov 7, 2013 23:08
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Going through more Doom-but-on-the-Amiga games, Gloom's "STAY ALERT! WATCH OUT FOR AGGRO SKINHEADS!" is the best level name. They also make you appreciate how much Doom got right in terms of level design.
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Nov 7, 2013 23:12
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DoombatINC posted:This better not be sarcasm because for my money there are few level names as classic as "Eat It, Vid Boi," "You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time!," and "(The Big Floaty) Thing What Kicks (Our Asses)" It is absolutely not sarcasm, they are my favorite games ever.
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Nov 8, 2013 03:49
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Speaking of FPSs on systems that shouldn't handle them there's this little indie Gameboy styel game called Boom, iirc it's actually a real rom, I could be misremembering though http://gamejolt.com/games/shooter/boom/652/
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Nov 8, 2013 04:07
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RyokoTK posted:It is absolutely not sarcasm, they are my favorite games ever. I figured, but in a heated "what Doom game has the least worst levels" conversation emotions can run wild and it can be hard to distinguish sincerity
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Nov 8, 2013 04:11
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ChickenHeart posted:Obviously the "Hangar" portion of Hangar resides behind the door you entered the map from, geez. Doomguy was probably stuck with "watch the landing craft" duty up until the moment everyone else died, so that's where the expansive, properly-scaled and immaculately-detailed landing bay would be. That's literally Doom's story. DoomGuy was stuck with guard duty on the landing craft (probably because he was shipped off to Mars after assaulting his superior officer and they wanted to give him the crap duty) and after listening to everyone die on his radio he decided "welp I don't know how to fly this thing, let's go get killed sooner rather than later." So the start of Hangar is actually him leaving the hangar and seeing the first of his dead comrades.
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Nov 8, 2013 04:14
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Reive posted:Speaking of FPSs on systems that shouldn't handle them there's this little indie Gameboy styel game called Boom, iirc it's actually a real rom, I could be misremembering though An FPS for the actual Game Boy, released in 1991, and capable of up to 16 simultaneous players when you chained together 4 of the 4 player multitaps for the link cables: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZq31JUYf8M
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Nov 8, 2013 04:55
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Edit: ^^ Holy poo poo, I remember that. I was on a plane once, when I was really young, and there was a kid next to me with a Gameboy who let me play it and that was the game. I'm trying to get Metropolitan Mayhem for Duke3D running. I sorta can, but there's these weird bits with transparency, where transparent bits, like around enemies, or bloody footprints, show through the level and show the skybox. I'm not certain if I'm installing the mod wrong or what, it's been a while since I've installed a mod on eDuke. You have to rename the .CON file in the folder, right? If I don't do that, the mod won't run. I'd think it'd be a graphics settings options, but when I play the standard game it doesn't do it.
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Nov 8, 2013 05:25
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