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ShaqDiesel posted:If Ned warged into a bird he would have immediately flown back to the red keep to be eaten. Presumably by Ser Pounce.
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Nov 11, 2013 20:57
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zocio posted:What is the general consensus on how Howland saved Ned? It happened in the Tower of Joy, so we have no idea really. Little Howland saving Ned using creepy crannog magic and then disappearing into his castle because he's trapped in Arthur Dayne's body is my theory though. Ned telling Ashara the freaky defiling business is what made her commit suicide/embrace the Seven as Septa Lemore. Also Ramsay Bolton is the new Night's King, on the subject of batshit theories I believe.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:02
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TJO posted:It happened in the Tower of Joy, so we have no idea really. Little Howland saving Ned using creepy crannog magic and then disappearing into his castle because he's trapped in Arthur Dayne's body is my theory though. Ned telling Ashara the freaky defiling business is what made her commit suicide/embrace the Seven as Septa Lemore. Maybe the realization that a little crannogman with a net bested the sword of the morning is what made her suicidal/religious. What I'm saying is that the other guys convinced me.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:26
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TJO posted:
I mean this is a little less batshit than some of the others considering Ramsay is all but a monster anyways.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:50
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I feel like Ramsay would have to improve his morals somewhat to qualify for Night King.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:15
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CapnAndy posted:I feel like Ramsay would have to improve his morals somewhat to qualify for Night King. I doubt he could ever be any sort of king. Title perhaps, but he's such a psycho that someone else would be ruling for him while he was doing... well all the stuff that he does. GRRM, please kill Ramsay. Seriously, he won't be missed.
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Nov 11, 2013 22:54
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The Night's King wasn't really a king either.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:00
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Friendly Factory posted:The Night's King wasn't really a king either. Admittedly I don't remember much about that one. Guess I have to hit the wiki to find out.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:10
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Yureina posted:GRRM, please kill Ramsay. Seriously, he won't be missed. Don't worry Sansa has that sorted, Tumblr is certain of this. Corny posted:I mean this is a little less batshit than some of the others considering Ramsay is all but a monster anyways. He's also a monster that is one of the only cruel-for-the-sake-of-cruel characters and lots of his content has references to being an ice-beast.
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Nov 11, 2013 23:56
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Went to a panel discussion last night with George Martin, Lena Headey and Michelle Fairley which was quite interesting. Lena said they'd basically just finished filming season 4 a couple of weeks ago, and that the Purple Wedding was one of the last things they filmed (same as last season where the Red Wedding was the last sequence to be shot). Michelle didn't give much away, but she'd fairly clearly been around the set so I'd be surprised if Lady Stoneheart isn't in this season. George cracked a joke about taking a decade to finish the next two books, but then said he was committed to finishing them before the TV show caught up. Although he originally said "last two books", then corrected himself to "next two books" and said he was hoping to tie everything together in them. So he's already assuming he won't finish in seven  He also dropped a very tantalising hint about book 6 - after speaking for a while about how dark lords with dark minions spreading evil didn't make for a very compelling story, someone asked that if that was the case, why did he include the Others which are pretty much exactly that? "Well, we haven't met them yet. *silence*" Maybe not news to some of you, but I definitely found it interesting!
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Nov 12, 2013 00:39
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Thanks for the trip report. GRRM in the past has said making it seven books would work well with the Faith of the Seven/Seven Kingdoms mythos, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up turning it into "Making the Eight." Either way, I don't expect to ever see the completion.  I think Michelle admitting to hanging around the set is very promising news, at least. Edit: Lena's stuff may have finished filming a few weeks ago, but I believe they only wrapped up shooting a day or so ago. Still exciting... c'mon April, hurry up and get here!
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Nov 12, 2013 01:23
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I find myself suddenly thinking about Varamyr Sixskins with sympathy. Dude must have taken no end of poo poo before he picked up those last two animals.
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Nov 12, 2013 01:35
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With all the POV characters I just can't see this series being able to wrap things up in seven books. Maybe if book five could have been trimmed like it should have and gotten the whole book fit in. But at this point there's going to have to be another one.
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Nov 12, 2013 04:37
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webmeister posted:
He's also teased that the Winds of Winter will take readers further north than ever before. I would imagine this will likely occur via a Bran POV as Martin has stated he will not add new POV characters. Of course those words could be wind.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:02
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Well, you go south long enough, you'll wind up in the north. Sam the Slayer returns 
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Nov 12, 2013 05:13
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I should say as well, that although we give GRRM a lot of poo poo for being a perverted old imminent heart attack, he actually came across on stage as a very intelligent, well read and very thoughtful person. I'm sure he'd answered most of the questions hundreds of times before, but he spoke well, cracked great jokes, and never sounded irritated. Except for when an audience member asked him whether the Piper(?) from Dunk & Egg was gay - "yes *eyeroll*" was the answer if anyone's wondering. Lena and Michelle were hilarious, and it's actually scary how similar Michelle looks and sounds to Catelyn Stark.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:13
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webmeister posted:I should say as well, that although we give GRRM a lot of poo poo for being a perverted old imminent heart attack, he actually came across on stage as a very intelligent, well read and very thoughtful person. I'm sure he'd answered most of the questions hundreds of times before, but he spoke well, cracked great jokes, and never sounded irritated. Except for when an audience member asked him whether the Piper(?) from Dunk & Egg was gay - "yes *eyeroll*" was the answer if anyone's wondering. George RR Martin has been a 100% cool dude in every interview I've seen him in. He doesn't deserve any of the hate he get's in this thread. Come at me haters 
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Nov 12, 2013 05:46
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Jedit posted:I find myself suddenly thinking about Varamyr Sixskins with sympathy. Dude must have taken no end of poo poo before he picked up those last two animals. Back then he was 'the beast with four backs'.
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Nov 12, 2013 05:59
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Kawalimus posted:With all the POV characters I just can't see this series being able to wrap things up in seven books. Maybe if book five could have been trimmed like it should have and gotten the whole book fit in. But at this point there's going to have to be another one. GRRM is going to take an axe to the number of POV characters in TWOW, mark my words. We have twenty of them by the end of ADWD (including Jon). By the end of TWOW, I definitely think we will losing five of them. Probably more. I also think we'll start losing POVs for reasons other than death. Some characters will just naturally cease to be relevant (e.g. Arianne is only important so long as Aegon is a part of the story), but he could also use the unique narrative style to play with our expectations and further develop the story. For example, Dany will soon have Tyrion and Barristan watching her every movement. If he started gradually phasing out Dany's chapters in favor of theirs, we would just naturally assume that GRRM is developing Dany from an objective perspective. In actuality, it would be to hide Dany's increasingly fragmented mental state as she succumbs to madness. It would be much more compelling to see Dany burn her way west and declare war on Aegon from the view of her concerned attendants without getting confirmation that she is in fact batshit crazy. webmeister posted:Except for when an audience member asked him whether the Piper(?) from Dunk & Egg was gay - "yes *eyeroll*" was the answer if anyone's wondering. Do you mean John the Fiddler (Daemon II Blackfyre)? Cause that's a pretty notable confirmation. There were a lot of hints but it was never confirmed in-story and I don't think GRRM's ever confirmed it elsewhere either.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:04
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In It For The Tank posted:GRRM is going to take an axe to the number of POV characters in TWOW, mark my words. We have twenty of them by the end of ADWD (including Jon). By the end of TWOW, I definitely think we will losing five of them. Probably more. At the very least you're going to see a lot of POVs come together so that even though there's 20 of them you have 4-5 in one place so it moves the story along anyway no matter who is narrating the chapter.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:06
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Yea there are a bunch of pathways that are bound to join up soon, I'm sure he's going to kill a few because he's GRRM but I suspect most of the refining will come from just people meeting up and travelling together.
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Nov 12, 2013 06:11
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In It For The Tank posted:Do you mean John the Fiddler (Daemon II Blackfyre)? Cause that's a pretty notable confirmation. There were a lot of hints but it was never confirmed in-story and I don't think GRRM's ever confirmed it elsewhere either. That was probably it (I've never read Dunk & Egg), so unless there's another suspected-to-be-gay character with a musician kind of name, take it as a confirmation
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Nov 12, 2013 07:23
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The cranogmen were the ones giving Victorian so much trouble, right? Howland probably just filled the Kingsguard outside the Tower of Joy with poo poo arrows and picked them off while they were dying of fever.
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Nov 12, 2013 08:39
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Well wait, how do we know that Daenerys is going mad? I must have missed that.
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Nov 12, 2013 09:43
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Not really. She does some cruel poo poo, but it's almost expected considering the situations she finds herself in. I think most people just think it would be a nice character arc for her to completely snap and go full Targ crazybones.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:09
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Well wait, how do we know that Daenerys is going mad? I must have missed that. She goes through the whole of the last book making sacrifices and compromises to do the best she can for 'her people'. Then by the end has decided that she hates making compromises to do that, so instead she's just going to gently caress up anybody in her way and drat the consequences. That's the impression I got from the very interesting Dany link in the OP.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:29
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She endangers herself to stop Drogon from tearing poo poo up, I don't think that demonstrates Dany has officially lost her mind. It's a bit of a Dragon ex machina and there isn't any real resolution, which is of course a big surprise given how elegantly ADWD wraps up most story lines.
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Nov 12, 2013 10:48
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Dany: - is in denial about her father's sins and shuts down Barristan any time he tries to tell her about it - is the very defintion of the path to hell is paved with good intentions - launches a moral crusade on an entire culture without considering the ramifications and after disregarding all counsel, triggering famine, disease and civil war in the region - has likely killed more people than she has saved - regularly converses with a phantom that only she can see and trusts its advice without confirmation of its existence - believes herself to be immune to being burned even after she is burned - believes herself to be immune to sickness even after getting sick - orders the slaughter of an entire class of people, sparing only those 12 and under (gently caress all the 13 year old nobles I suppose) - authorizes the torture of innocent people - executes 163 random people as retribution for a crime many of them may not have even played a role in - confronted an enraged dragon armed only with a whip - on a whim, decides to play queen to a nation of people to whom she has no relation after wrecking their lives and destroying their infrastructure - demands power despite her inability to rule - despite her anti-slavery crusade, she forces ex-nobles to work in debt bondage by digging ditches outside Meereen - infatuated with a man who betrayed his comrades and presented their severed heads to her as a gift - has a self-deluded sense of grandeur, venerates the Targaryen bloodline and has adopted Viserys' rhetoric - fails to realize that the hypocrisy regarding her claim to Westeros after she rules against a woman in Meereen whose circumstances mirror her own - has become increasingly paranoid as a result of frequent betrayals - on the subject, Dany has experienced significant trauma in her formative years, so madness is not exactly unexpected (Aerys II was sane at first too) - recently resolved to be more vicious and cruel after talking to some grass - her next step appears to be unleashing fiery hell upon Khal Jhaqo and all those like him (even though her beloved first husband was no doubt guilty of many of the same crimes), and then burning Meereen to the ground - in the future, she stands to confront a pretender who is threatening to steal her birthright and will actively wage war upon him. Said pretender will be popular with the masses, who will no doubt resent Dany fiercely for (eventually) feeding him to her dragons. How will Dany feel after her life's ambition is made hollow by circumstances outside her control? Note: this isn't supposed to be proof per se, more like it's establishing a general trend with her character. If you review her actions in the context that 'hey maybe she's a little bit loving crazy' it starts to make a lot of sense. Basically it would be cool as poo poo and would go a long way to justifying Dany as a character. Build up a savior figure and turn them into a villain. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 10:49
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In It For The Tank posted:- regularly converses with a phantom that only she can see and trusts its advice without confirmation of its existence Her ADWD appearance could be a hallucination, only in the sense that there are no witnesses. But she's an already magical character, and there is an easier explanation right there: she mentions that "the glass candles are burning", and Marwyn said that glass candles had the power of long-range communication (and he implied that he used his candle for scrying himself).
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Nov 12, 2013 11:25
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In It For The Tank posted:Basically it would be cool as poo poo and would go a long way to justifying Dany as a character. Build up a savior figure and turn them into a villain.
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Nov 12, 2013 11:37
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Well wait, how do we know that Daenerys is going mad? I must have missed that. In addition to what's been posted above, there's also that whole conversation about "every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin" - and that Dany's coin hasn't finished flipping.
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Nov 12, 2013 11:38
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NihilCredo posted:Quaithe exists and several people other than Dany have seen her and talked to her (unless you assume Dany hallucinated Jorah and the bloodrider's words as well). I know, I'm referring to her appearances in ASOS and ADWD when she appears supernaturally (thus phantom). On all three occasions Quaithe shows up where she shouldn't, Dany is either on the cusp of sleep or in the middle of a hallucinogenic vision quest. The point is that Dany doesn't understand who Quaithe is (never seen her face) or how she is speaking to her, yet talks to her and trusts her anyway. If nothing else, Dany should be instantly on guard since all of the previous sorcerors that she has interacted with (MMD, the Undying) have been hostile and tried to harm her. Nevertheless she accepts Quaithe's prophecies and lets them guide her actions (and fuel her paranoia). Dany doesn't know what a glass candle is, so to her Quaithe is just a shadowbinder who likes dropping in from time to time to cryptically warn her about things. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Nov 12, 2013 |
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Nov 12, 2013 11:46
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Personally, I look forward the most to the new doomed prologue and epilogue POV characters. It'll be a delightful way of demonstrating just where in the world poo poo is currently getting real. Bowen Marsh prologue POV or bust
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Nov 12, 2013 11:52
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In It For The Tank posted:- fails to realize that the hypocrisy regarding her claim to Westeros after she rules against a woman in Meereen whose circumstances mirror her own There's also the bit where she asks for some satin pillows to sit on, as she finds the stone seat she's been using for a throne too hard. Which of course, runs counter to the often stated purpose of the iron throne as an intentionally uncomfortable seat from which to rule.
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Nov 12, 2013 12:02
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NihilCredo posted:Her ADWD appearance could be a hallucination, only in the sense that there are no witnesses. But she's an already magical character, and there is an easier explanation right there: she mentions that "the glass candles are burning", and Marwyn said that glass candles had the power of long-range communication (and he implied that he used his candle for scrying himself). Targ madness turns out to be the equivalent of too many people having your phone number with no way to unplug it.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:12
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Maarak posted:Targ madness turns out to be the equivalent of too many people having your phone number with no way to unplug it. After 30 calls a week from those fake computer support scammers I want to burn them all alive, so I can't but agree with you.
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Nov 12, 2013 13:30
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Hang on, what was the woman in Meereen with similar circumstances to Dany? It's been forever since I read the book so I don't remember that but it sounds interesting.
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Nov 12, 2013 14:51
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grundin posted:There's also the bit where she asks for some satin pillows to sit on, as she finds the stone seat she's been using for a throne too hard. Which of course, runs counter to the often stated purpose of the iron throne as an intentionally uncomfortable seat from which to rule.
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Nov 12, 2013 17:41
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redcheval posted:Hang on, what was the woman in Meereen with similar circumstances to Dany? It's been forever since I read the book so I don't remember that but it sounds interesting. It's only a small paragraph from when she is giving audiences. A noble woman had fled Meereen before/during the siege and when she came back afterwards she found that her house had been overtaken by a bunch of former slaves who had also taken possession of her jewelry and clothes. Dany ruled that she should get the jewelry back but that she forfeited the house when she fled. Which is pretty hypocritical considering that Dany herself is always harping how the iron throne is hers by rights even though she hasn't set foot on Westeros since they fled from there (nor any Targ for that matter).
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Nov 12, 2013 18:15
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Perestroika posted:(nor any Targ for that matter). There was a Targ in the Westeros for almost all of her exile!
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Nov 12, 2013 18:23
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