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Timeless Appeal posted:revolutionary, but Robin potentially is. It's like half a second of screen time, but I really liked how Gordan-Levitt played it disgusted and frustrated that he reflexively killed those two guys by the dock and throws his gun away. He really sold that he was unhappy with killing them beyond just the purely tactical "I could have learned more" reason.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:01
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Danger posted:It's a line of criticism that was established in the first film (Ra's noting Tom Wayne's failure to act, pleading with Bruce to make an ethical commitment). To quote a famous Jeff Daniel's impersonator: I have to get off when you start getting into arguing ethical and philosophical viewpoints. Personally I think Ra's was full of poo poo.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:01
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Darko posted:...and as we see in TDKR, not just that - criminals go to jail, and the key is thrown away and they are forgotten, which causes the public to feel at peace for a number of years. He and Gordon take that to the extreme that the public demands (because in TDK, they feel the public is stupid and must be coddled in that way). Contrast Batman's "the people are ready to believe in good" with Man Of Steel's "I believe in the people".
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Nov 12, 2013 21:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:It's not about coddling, it's about who the people follow. Harvey Dent represents a democratically elected leader functioning in a Republic. Batman represents a leader who puts himself in power and acts on his own morality with no obligation to any agreed upon standards for governance nor the interest of the people. Batman chooses the former, and he's technically right. The problem is that just like Thomas Wayne who is essentially an ideal moral capitalist, Dent's death instead becomes a symbol of fear and therefore tyranny. There's a bit more to it than that. The three movies are about symbols, and trusting in said symbols. - It all starts in Begins, where the League attempts to destroy Gotham as they feel that it is a symbol of decadence, and Thomas Wayne stops said destruction by being a symbol of lawful good within the city. - The League's corruption of Gotham is enough to make the city entirely corrupt and kill Thomas (and Martha), but not destroy it, so they attempt to do so with grand, immediate designs. - Bruce figures the only way to stop this is to escalate and become such a great symbol of fear that it will stymy all of this. - Bruce doing this causes other elements within the city to also become symbols - The Joker becoming one of chaos to show that the city (and people) really are corrupt and will inevitably destroy themselves - Meanwhile Batman attempts to save the city by using lawful good Harvey in the same way as his father to bring the city up - The Joker messes this up by showing that even someone that is that -good- can be corrupted, and ruins Harvey - Bruce and Gordon cover this up, making Harvey a FAKE symbol for good, and using this power to put criminals away indefinitely - This causes years of relative peace, but all based on a false symbol - Bane shows up as a revolutionary and exposes the lies, causing the city to turn on itself and basically starts what the League attempted at the end of Begins - Of course Bane as a symbol of "the people" was false since he still handled control over to a 1%er with even worse daddy issues than Bruce (Talia) - Bruce fails completely, takes a mythological journey through Hades and rises again, reborn as someone who is worthy of being a symbol, embracing the light and working with the lawful entities of the city (the police) to take down those elements - He also realizes that Batman is stupid and can't exist anymore as-is, so he retires that symbol at it's height, and at the only time it is brought to the light in that manner The movies seem to be showing a "be careful in who you take as an idol, as many are false." Where I don't agree with SMG's reading is that a big part of Bane's presentation is that while he was initially presented as a true revolutionary, the "twist" reveal is that he was actually an extension of the rich establishment (Talia) as well, and just another tool used to manipulate the masses, and thus no different than Bruce/Harvey/Gordon at the end of TDK. It took a complete rebirth/change of what Batman meant as a symbol, and embracing being out in the open, that finally "fixed" the city. edit: Also, note that part of Batman's rebirth included being removed from the establishment (losing all of his status and money) after Talia, and by extension, Bane, was given complete control of it. Batman became "the people" for-real, while Bane was just faking it.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:20
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Rhyno posted:That clip is still amazing after watching it 4 times. It blows my mind how different Evans looks these days. That dude really grew into his features, he really is Captain America. I tell people all the time how disappointing it was for me when he was cast in FF originally. All I could think was "welp, there goes the best actor for a good Cap movie". I thought for sure he wouldn't have the chance at playing Cap. Lo and behold! Seriously, he was the best choice for Cap.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:47
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Colonel Whitey posted:I have to get off when you start getting into arguing ethical and philosophical viewpoints. Personally I think Ra's was full of poo poo. That's unfortunate, as it's sort of implicit to discussing the film. Ra's took the right steps in the wrong direction.
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Nov 12, 2013 21:53
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Danger posted:That's unfortunate, as it's sort of implicit to discussing the film. Ra's took the right steps in the wrong direction. I'm all for discussing what's shown in the film and how the film is presented but too often these discussions spiral into personal politics and Zizek quotes and I'm not really interested in that.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:03
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Frequent Whedon collaborator (including director/co-writer of Cabin in the Woods) Drew Goddard is writing the Daredevil series on Netflix.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:06
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Urdnot Fire posted:Frequent Whedon collaborator (including director/co-writer of Cabin in the Woods) Drew Goddard is writing the Daredevil series on Netflix. I know a lot of people here hated Cabin in the Woods, but I for one consider this a good sign.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:13
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Darko posted:Where I don't agree with SMG's reading is that a big part of Bane's presentation is that while he was initially presented as a true revolutionary, the "twist" reveal is that he was actually an extension of the rich establishment (Talia) as well, and just another tool used to manipulate the masses, and thus no different than Bruce/Harvey/Gordon at the end of TDK. Talia isn't simply a rich person but a person who acts as something of a subversive parody of Wayne. She becomes the liberal capitalist philanthopist figure as a mask, so that the decadent rich and revolting poor alike will be blamed for the catastrophic destruction of the city. This was the original plan in Batman begins as well: have the poors go crazy and turn against the liberal rich who tolerated them - ultimately promoting fascism. However, the message of Bane is that the performed ethical mask is his true self, and the reveal of his 'mere humanity' is a self-betrayal. Revolutionary Bane is the true Bane.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:15
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Colonel Whitey posted:I'm all for discussing what's shown in the film and how the film is presented but too often these discussions spiral into personal politics and Zizek quotes and I'm not really interested in that. This is a pretty good criticism of CineD as a whole.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:16
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Urdnot Fire posted:Frequent Whedon collaborator (including director/co-writer of Cabin in the Woods) Drew Goddard is writing the Daredevil series on Netflix. Well that's one good thing, now let's get a lead actor so I can start actually getting hyped for this.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:19
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I know a lot of people here hated Cabin in the Woods, but I for one consider this a good sign. I don't like Whedon, but I loved Cabin in the Woods. I really dig the idea of having Netflix exclusive superhero shows if that means they'll be of the same caliber as House of Cards. Wish DC would consider doing the same for some of their properties.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:However, the message of Bane is that the performed ethical mask is his true self, and the reveal of his 'mere humanity' is a self-betrayal. Revolutionary Bane is the true Bane. What from the movie demonstrates this? This is a worthwhile interpretation, but I don't remember anything suggesting the self-betrayal you mention.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:However, the message of Bane is that the performed ethical mask is his true self, and the reveal of his 'mere humanity' is a self-betrayal. Revolutionary Bane is the true Bane. Yeah I don't see this reading either. He has no other motivation beyond serving Talia's desires. She wants Gotham to burn and so Bane takes the mantle of Liberator in Talia's facade.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:31
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He and Batman are "brothers", it seems sensible that his convictions ultimately amount to the same thing as Bruce's.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:32
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Sprecherscrow posted:What from the movie demonstrates this? This is a worthwhile interpretation, but I don't remember anything suggesting the self-betrayal you mention. The whole movie: Revolutionary Bane is a cool dude who stands for real truth and justice. Human Bane is a loser who goes out like a punk. It's important not to get caught up in his 'deep' inner motivations, and to look at what he accomplishes.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:34
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teagone posted:I don't like Whedon, but I loved Cabin in the Woods. I really dig the idea of having Netflix exclusive superhero shows if that means they'll be of the same caliber as House of Cards. Wish DC would consider doing the same for some of their properties. I'm still a bit apprehensive, but then again I've long said that my ideal film version of Daredevil would basically be Homicide: Life on the Streets with costumes and martial arts fights, so I don't see why the TV show format couldn't work.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:37
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I'm still a bit apprehensive, but then again I've long said that my ideal film version of Daredevil would basically be Homicide: Life on the Streets with costumes and martial arts fights, so I don't see why the TV show format couldn't work. I think the ideal film Daredevil would be a distinctly American counterpart to District B13.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:42
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Has Feige or anyone said definitively whether or not the four Netflix shows will be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? As petty as this is to say, I'd be less inclined to watch them if they're not.
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Nov 12, 2013 22:46
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I know a lot of people here hated Cabin in the Woods, but I for one consider this a good sign. Cabin in the Woods owns, yay, we agree on something. 
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Nov 12, 2013 23:25
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Neowyrm posted:Has Feige or anyone said definitively whether or not the four Netflix shows will be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? I'd honestly be surprised if they weren't.
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Nov 13, 2013 00:01
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Urdnot Fire posted:Frequent Whedon collaborator (including director/co-writer of Cabin in the Woods) Drew Goddard is writing the Daredevil series on Netflix. It seems it's just negotiations, they could go nowhere (though I doubt it). I haven't seen Cabin in the Woods, but his previous TV experience doesn't seem like "edgy street vigilante" to me. Still, I hope he does a good job, at least he seems like a fan.
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Nov 13, 2013 00:42
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radlum posted:It seems it's just negotiations, they could go nowhere (though I doubt it). I haven't seen Cabin in the Woods, but his previous TV experience doesn't seem like "edgy street vigilante" to me. Still, I hope he does a good job, at least he seems like a fan. He wrote for Angel and that is what that show was.
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Nov 13, 2013 00:44
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Did he write the episode of Angel where Angel basically fought Girl Daredevil?
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Nov 13, 2013 01:14
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greatn posted:Did he write the episode of Angel where Angel basically fought Girl Daredevil? "Blind Date", and no.
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Nov 13, 2013 02:52
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I finally watched The Wolverine. Surprised by how much I liked it. Also surprised that it was rated PG-13 -- I counted three F-bombs and some really awesomely gory violence. It blows my mind they were able to get away with all that -- it sincerely felt like an R-rated movie to me.
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Nov 13, 2013 03:58
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mfaley posted:I finally watched The Wolverine. Surprised by how much I liked it. Also surprised that it was rated PG-13 -- I counted three F-bombs and some really awesomely gory violence. It blows my mind they were able to get away with all that -- it sincerely felt like an R-rated movie to me. Are you sure you didn't watch the extended cut?
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Nov 13, 2013 04:22
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It would have had to been, you aren't allowed to have more than one "gently caress" in a PG-13 film, unless that's changed recently.
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Nov 13, 2013 04:31
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jivjov posted:It would have had to been, you aren't allowed to have more than one "gently caress" in a PG-13 film, unless that's changed recently. This is not a hard rule, nor has it ever been. The general idea is that the MPAA considers "gently caress" in a sexual context more objectionable than in a non-sexual context. So three "gently caress you"s is more acceptable than three "I hosed her"s.
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Nov 13, 2013 04:35
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I wanna see John Waters cast as Dr. Strange.
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Nov 13, 2013 04:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The whole movie: Revolutionary Bane is a cool dude who stands for real truth and justice. Human Bane is a loser who goes out like a punk. Human Bane goes out like a punk because "The Legend of Bane" turns out to have been a lie. The symbol turned out to be a mere man, in contrast to what happens to Batman at the end. Legend Bane, the Bane who rose from the Pit, was never real, and the Legend is actually Talia, who replaces Bane and is then chased around by Batman and dies almost exactly like his father Legend Ra's al Ghul (except that, this time, instead of Batman killing Ra's while lying to himself that he didn't, he just kills her). Also, Revolutionary Bane was never a cool dude who stood for real truth and justice. He was an outsider pretending to stand for a people he never knew or was a part of, an external force occupying and 'liberating' an angry Gotham that immediately embraced any form of revolt for the long-desired catharsis of toppling an unjust and corrupt system. He exploited real and deserved anger, but then armed a group of people to police the enemies of 'the revolution' while agreeing to live off of the scraps of the USA's table.
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Nov 13, 2013 05:44
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jivjov posted:It would have had to been, you aren't allowed to have more than one "gently caress" in a PG-13 film, unless that's changed recently. It's never been 100% true, that I know of. (Though it did make for a great joke in the movie Student Bodies.) Hell, the American President had 3 uses of the work "gently caress" in it back in 1995, and it was rated PG-13.
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Nov 13, 2013 15:07
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Gatts posted:I wanna see John Waters cast as Dr. Strange. "Mm, you're saying these hosts of Hoggoth are huge whores? Perfect." "No no, hoary. Y'know, like old." "Silver foxes? Even better."
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Nov 13, 2013 15:28
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Lobok posted:"Mm, you're saying these hosts of Hoggoth are huge whores? Perfect." Hahaha, yessssss...come on, it'd be great.
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Nov 13, 2013 16:40
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Just cause Vincent Price is dead doesn't mean he shouldn't be Dr. Strange. Perhaps you're leaning towards John Waters because he modeled his look after him?
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Nov 13, 2013 17:07
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Daniel Day Lewis for Dr. Strange, if only for the absolutely terrifying experience that would result during filming.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:07
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greatn posted:Just cause Vincent Price is dead doesn't mean he shouldn't be Dr. Strange. Exactly. I had Price in mind but...yeah. Jamesman posted:Daniel Day Lewis for Dr. Strange, if only for the absolutely terrifying experience that would result during filming. I think I'd enjoy seeing a documentary on Daniel Day Lewis' process and method acting on set. He'd probably actually open a portal to some dimension and act so hard he'd fix whatever mess came through.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:10
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Jamesman posted:Daniel Day Lewis for Dr. Strange, if only for the absolutely terrifying experience that would result during filming. Thanks for ruining the inevitable casting that won't live up to this.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:10
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Jamesman posted:Daniel Day Lewis for Dr. Strange, if only for the absolutely terrifying experience that would result during filming. Method acting so good he'll actually use real sorcery on set and freak everyone out.
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Nov 13, 2013 17:13
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