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The key to any good redemption story is having something tragic happen TO a character that wakes them up. The governors wake up was mass killing other people. He just, got depressed after? That was his rock bottom, feeling sad after murdering his army? It's like the writers skipped the part where he's captured by cannibals and has his foot eaten off, and went straight to him transforming into an entirely different character. Force feeding a redemption story on an already poorly managed character just sucks. They should have cut their losses. Him coming hat in hand to the prison and getting pushed in the mud by rick is going to be dumb. Almost as dumb as if he uses the family as "live bait" to try to attack the prison again. This season has some of the best episodes. I hope the gov dies real soon before he poisons the rest of the season. gently caress. I hate how that character is acted so much.
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Nov 19, 2013 13:44
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Iowa Snow King posted:I think the implication is that some zombies retain enough instinct or memory to "go back" to their routine, sort of like Morgan's wife from the pilot. I know but everyone's dressed for work/church/whatever so whenever they went for coffee, that's where they instantly died. It's only a minor nitpick and doesn't matter but I like it better when the show takes that extra step to figure out consequences of human behavior and where zombies would be, like the gas station trio who committed suicide together, than when they just say "this is just a regular nursing home but instead of people, there are zombies where people would be."
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Nov 19, 2013 13:53
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So has anyone talked about the rats yet? I think we can safely assume it's not a Governor prank now. Maybe Martinez, in his new role as wandering masterless Samurai, embraced the life of a post-apocalyptic prankster?
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Nov 19, 2013 14:19
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That DICK! posted:So has anyone talked about the rats yet? I think we can safely assume it's not a Governor prank now.
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Nov 19, 2013 14:26
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happyhippy posted:Surprised they didn't hole up in the van and The Gov went out to find a vehicle for them. They obviously could sleep there safely, had food, why the gently caress get out and walk when he's the only one with experience out in the wild. I know it would use up extra fuel, but it baffles me how no-one goes out with two cars at a time in groups. The last thing you want to do is be stuck on foot, so if I was going on a decent length trip it would be two cars all the time. edit: Also I want to see them tie a bunch of walkers to the outside of a bus to act as camouflage.
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Nov 19, 2013 14:35
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euphronius posted:Given another chance, Jean Valjean like, Jean Valjean stole a loaf of bread to feed his sisters starving child. Unless there's some crazy version of Les Miserables where Jean Valjean was a murderous general who ran bloodsport, pillaged and murdered dozens of innocent people, sexually harassed people, and fed people to undead monsters that I haven't seen. In fact that would be a pretty badass version, it would explain why he's suddenly okay with/good at shooting people at the barricades when he's supposed to be all christian. Now that I think about it, why did Valjean need redeeming again? Anyway I think it's a bit unrealistic of people in this thread to say that the governor can't be redeemed without some bad poo poo happening to him like getting half-eaten by cannibals. In the real world people can change without some weird trauma spurring it on. That kind of character development is actually pretty cliche and quite unrealistic in my eyes. The key to the governors semi-redemption is self-awareness, he was extremely deluded, believing that he MUST be doing the right thing because look at woodbury, it's the post-apocalypse version of heaven (if you don't count the zombie fights) and then the next thing you know the last few people still with him abandon him in the night and suddenly he's just alone with his thoughts and all he can really do is think about what he's done and who he is. Everything he did all that horrible poo poo for is gone, including his zombie daughter. That's enough to make him realistically have a moment of self-evaluation. euphronius posted:Notice his daughter made him the white King. Are you saying his daughter is some kind of racist?
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Nov 19, 2013 14:46
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Ug. I just heard that this episode is straight out of the tie in novels. Sounds like they're going to swing back around to the comic book after all. Lily is the key. Now whatever warm feelings I had about her and the non-governor characters is gone. Ug Now my only hope is that they rush through this and wrap it up by the mid season. But that is a scant hope Double ug: please don't call what he did to Maggie "sexual harassment". Jesus Christ Marie, he didn't smack her on the rear end at the end of the staff meeting. rypakal fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 14:53
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Valjean also stole the silver from the church. The loaf of bread was was legally condemned him. Stealing the silver was far worse. But obviously they aren't exact analogs and I never said that. The Governor doesn't even speak French! euphronius fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 15:05
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Once again I really loved the episode, the trend is I like all episodes where some exploration is done and where they show how civilization has crumbled. No-one yet has mentioned the writings on the wall, which are very similar to post disaster landmarks where people write down stuff for their lost relatives. Also right before the group of zombies noticed the Gov's happy family, I believe they were staring at some Zombie-distracting device. It even had some provocative text on it. Can anyone confirm (with a screenshot if possible)? Also, Season 4 really has shown the coolest zombies so far: -Beartrap Walker -Intubiter -Bathtub Zombie -Grandma Skin-Eater Their props department sure merits some credit.
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Nov 19, 2013 15:07
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Evernoob posted:
 Looks like just a broken sign bearing the episode's title, "Live Bait"
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Nov 19, 2013 15:27
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MassiveTrauma posted:
They were clearly headed to the pay pond. Why didn't the gov simply teach the women-folk the hobo-shrug move?
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Nov 19, 2013 15:30
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They have shown the episode's title on-screen multiple times so far. Is this something they do every episode and I missed it, or is it random?
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Nov 19, 2013 15:47
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Baldbeard posted:This season has some of the best episodes. I hope the gov dies real soon before he poisons the rest of the season. gently caress. I hate how that character is acted so much. The whole governor sideplot pretty much defused any sort of tension built up by the first few episodes and also doesn't match the tone of the show.
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Nov 19, 2013 15:48
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The tension was defused at the end of the previous episode. Do you guys even watch the show.
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Nov 19, 2013 15:54
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rypakal posted:Double ug: please don't call what he did to Maggie "sexual harassment". Jesus Christ Marie, he didn't smack her on the rear end at the end of the staff meeting. Well originally I had 'rape' in the post but the definition of rape is penetration, and he didn't penetrate anything. I dunno what else to call it. If I had to come up with something I'd call it psycho-sexual torture, but that doesn't really roll off the tongue and to me it also makes it sound like some sort of weird telekinetic rape. rypakal posted:Ug. I just heard that this episode is straight out of the tie in novels. Sounds like they're going to swing back around to the comic book after all. Lily is the key. Now whatever warm feelings I had about her and the non-governor characters is gone. Ug So wait, you had positive feelings before, but then when you found out that it tied into the comic's canon suddenly you hate it? What kind of sense does that make? Are you some kind of crazy reverse hipster or something? Also, the tie-in this is from is set BEFORE Woodbury was established, so I'm assuming they're doing the usual 'let's take some character names from the comics and then just make up our own stuff' shenanigans. I mean have you read the comics/tie in novels? Because if you had you'd know that this really does not tie into it at all. PootieTang fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 15:56
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etalian posted:The whole governor sideplot pretty much defused any sort of tension built up by the first few episodes and also doesn't match the tone of the show. What the should have done was a hitchhiker prequel sideplot. Or a Morgan sideplot. Or any number of things occurring sideplot-wise with anyone else that I actually give a drat about.
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Nov 19, 2013 15:58
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Also almost every drama does this all the time, they follow up a series of tense episodes with a quieter episode in order to let the audience process and to allow them to begin building tension anew. You can't ratchet up tension forever, there are narrative limits to this sort of thing. There's a reason they had to constantly introduce new super sayain states in DBZ after. Remember the cautionary tale of Dragonball Z!
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Nov 19, 2013 15:59
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zoux posted:Also almost every drama does this all the time, they follow up a series of tense episodes with a quieter episode in order to let the audience process and to allow them to begin building tension anew. You can't ratchet up tension forever, there are narrative limits to this sort of thing. There's a reason they had to constantly introduce new super sayain states in DBZ after. Dragonball Z was loving awesome  Then again that's because it was aimed at kids and I was a kid when I saw it. Maybe some of the chronic complainers should try DBZ instead, there aren't as many 'boring' talie parts in that :V
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Nov 19, 2013 16:03
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etalian posted:The whole governor sideplot pretty much defused any sort of tension built up by the first few episodes and also doesn't match the tone of the show. Everything is relative so trying to keep a constantly upwards trajectory means that drama has to be blown out of proportion and that doesn't make for a great show generally, take a step back and taking a breath means you can make another push without having to worry about it falling flat in comparison to last week. e: whelp, comfortably beaten to this point.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:07
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PootieTang posted:Well originally I had 'rape' in the post but the definition of rape is penetration, and he didn't penetrate anything. I dunno what else to call it. If I had to come up with something I'd call it psycho-sexual torture, but that doesn't really roll off the tongue and to me it also makes it sound like some sort of weird telekinetic rape. Sexual torture, or if you're feeling charitable, sexual assault. But sexual torture works. I said in previous posts that I would have really liked this episode if it didn't have the Governor in it. I was interested in the character development of the other people. But now that I know what will happen to them, that's gone. If that turns out not to be the case I will be super delighted. But anything from those awful novels is a negative in my estimation. quote:Running through the back alleys they discover an apartment building occupied by the Chalmers family, comprised of ailing father David and his daughters, Tara and April Chalmers. The two groups bond into the autumn, clearing biters from the rest of the apartment building, reinforcing it, gathering supplies, and trying to live normal lives. David dies from lung cancer during this period and turns into a walker, but Philip manages to kill him before he can bite Tara. Ending the quote there because there's a spoiler in the rest of the sentence. Yes they've adapted the story for how it appears in the show (his daughter is already dead, so they just gave this family a replacement daughter). Combined with using the name "Lilly" it seems almost certain where they are going with this. What I thought was a ridiculous idea (they are literally rebooting the story of the Governor because they didn't like how he was handled last season) now seems perfectly plausible. The Governor is the least interesting character Robert Kirkman has ever created, and he won't loving stop writing about him. It fills me with internet rage.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:18
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rypakal posted:Sexual torture, or if you're feeling charitable, sexual assault. But sexual torture works. Keep reading the comics, Kirkman can do worse. Anyway, I thought the episode was boring, but not in a second half of season 3 kind of boring, just plain old boring TV, but good ideas behind that. I would like to see the Governor "redeemed" but still untrustworthy, like Ben in Lost. I hope they don't kill his new family just to make him even more evil than before.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:53
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Oh man stop reminding me they should've cast Michael Emerson as the Gov.
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Nov 19, 2013 16:55
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I think that not seeing the Governor at the logical end of his bullshit and not seeing the moments where we're asked whether or not he's the same guy and will go back and murder the entire family really is a big part of people not watching the show. The governor from last season was written super lovely. He was clearly bad from the beginning. But, if the episode on Sunday accomplishes anything I think it does a decent soft reboot of him to make him compelling. I don't think he's a cuddly new guy, and in fact I'm pretty sure there's going to be a third(!!!) assault on the prison. I think that the frustration and fury at the failure of the last assault played out naturally here. He's a supremely evil man who lost his ability to make his evil wide ranging and permanent. I feel like the last episode hit a lot of correct notes while avoiding worse ones and am willing to give Gimple and whoever the benefit of the doubt here. PootieTang posted:Well originally I had 'rape' in the post but the definition of rape is penetration, and he didn't penetrate anything. lol
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Nov 19, 2013 16:57
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etalian posted:The whole governor sideplot pretty much defused any sort of tension built up by the first few episodes and also doesn't match the tone of the show. Sidestepping the whole tension issue, I thought this episode was well in line tonally with the rest of the show*. What do you think was off about it? * except for the badass posing in burning Woodbury, that was loving hilarious verybad fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 17:09
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Look, we always get on people in the show for knowing poo poo about zombies, but here see it happens irl too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZClSxVU-xM
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Nov 19, 2013 17:09
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That's not a joke, that's actually the definition.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:13
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zoux posted:Look, we always get on people in the show for knowing poo poo about zombies, but here see it happens irl too
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Nov 19, 2013 17:23
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drat Darabont is still pretty bitter about the whole thingquote:Have you kept up with the show since your departure? Fans of Kirkman's comics haven't particularly enjoyed its direction since you left.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:34
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I think its too much of a reach to say the governer can be redeemed at all. They need to kill him and be done with it. He should never have been a "thing". Also someone mentioned Morgan side plot-now THAT would be a story of redemption. He has gone all vigilante since his wife and kid are gone and obviously felt there was nothing to live for but kill zombies. Having HIM find his humanity and wander the roads would be interesting and character building. But no, we have cliche evil villain finds his soul when he finds some girls. Whatever, just be done with him. Someone mentioned Ramirez....he's the same way. Lets kill people just to kill people because I'm a bad rear end and I'M IN CHARGE. Since he and the black dude abandoned the governor you'd think they may have changed their ways as far as being shitheels, and I'll be very disappointed if they do not. That isn't how people work "Oh we went full fascist last time and it didnt' work out, so lets do it again just on our own". Yeah no, especially after the murdering of the innocents. Which is why the poisoning the prison thing doesn't make sense either.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:35
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euphronius posted:Notice his daughter made him the white King.
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Nov 19, 2013 17:52
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What was the whole story with Darabont leaving? I kind of thought that was super weird because it's like wait your budget is 3.4 million for 6 episodes..but the second season is 13 episodes long and they want a budget of 2.8 million. Yeah, I still don't get that and kind of side a little bit with AMC.
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Nov 19, 2013 18:29
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euphronius posted:Notice his daughter made him the white King. It'd make little sense to draw on the black one with a black marker, but hey, whatevs Evernoob posted:
Yes, we did, way back when the show started because that's where the Governor got his new alias from SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 19, 2013 |
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Nov 19, 2013 20:54
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Speaking of the Gov's alias, what the hell was up with that? Why were those barn people so obsessed with Brian Heriot? I mean, his name was written on that barn like 12 times, half the time not even in conjunction with anything. Not even 'Brian Heriot wuz here' or something, just "Brian Heriot".
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Nov 19, 2013 21:12
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Theglavwen posted:Speaking of the Gov's alias, what the hell was up with that? Why were those barn people so obsessed with Brian Heriot? I mean, his name was written on that barn like 12 times, half the time not even in conjunction with anything. Not even 'Brian Heriot wuz here' or something, just "Brian Heriot". They really, really wanted you to notice where his fake name came from.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:15
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Someone at work wondered if that was his real name all along and Phillip was made up. Our post-  world.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:22
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Brian and Philip are headmates.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:23
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Bedurndurn posted:They really, really wanted you to notice where his fake name came from. People still missed it. Rewatch needed.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:23
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but why is he named brian though and who let the zombies into the prison and who is that Rick character anyways has he always been there?
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Nov 19, 2013 21:25
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It would not make any thematic sense for the Gov's daughter to think he was the black king. Also I suppose yes the black marker wouldn't show up.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:31
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The worst part about the governor is that he sounds exactly like Johnny Bravo to me and I can never unhear it. Some people I've talked to don't hear it at all though so maybe that's just me.
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Nov 19, 2013 21:33
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