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Grozz Nuy posted:This line of discussion creates a fun game! It's worth pointing out that the reason Stafford has attempted so many passes is that before this season the Lions had 0 running game and an atrocious o-line and no one who can catch the ball besides Calvin Johnson. Even this year the WRs/TEs besides Megatron are comically inept. I think it's very hard to judge him as a QB even now, having one transcendent talent that lets him get away with insane decisions and a bunch of garbage that drops perfect throws is a very bizarre mix.
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Dec 7, 2013 05:23
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Grozz also said Stafford gets to play with the top WR in the NFL unlike Schaub, and I'm like, uhhhh is Andre Johnson chopped liver or something
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Dec 7, 2013 05:26
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Every report that I can find online has Teddy Bridgewater as either the #1 or #2 overall prospect. It's not we're settling for Geno Smith at #1 here...he's an elite prospect in his own right. "STRENGTHS: Shows very good weight distribution and passing mechanics. Steps into the face of pressure and delivers, showing admirable toughness on each snap to bounce back after big hits. Smooth mobility to extend and move the pocket with the quickness to pick up yards with his legs if needed. Impressive accuracy and touch on throws to all levels of the field. Quick and efficient movements in his technique and does an excellent job with fakes, selling and focusing on the details. He is poised and with very good footwork in the pocket. Mature and grounded individual who obviously loves football. Sharp-witted and retains information extremely well. Makes it look easy on the field and appears to "get it," elevating the play of those around him. WEAKNESSES: Although quick, Bridgewater has a lower than ideal release point with the ball shooting passed his ear. Some durability concerns after all the hits he has taken over his career, specifically to his wrist and ankle. Room to improve his touch and ball placement on downfield throws. Strong performances in big games including against Florida in the Sugar Bowl following the 2012 season, but played mediocre talent on a weekly basis in the American Athletic Conference. COMPARES TO: Taller Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks - NFL analysts often say that if Russell Wilson was 3-4 inches taller, he would have been a first round pick. Well, that might hold true with Bridgewater who is a similar prospect as Wilson (smart, athletic, mature, accurate) except he is taller with more prototypical height for the NFL." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1825122/teddy-bridgewater
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Dec 7, 2013 05:28
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Bridgewater's completion percentage has never been lower than 64.5% and this year, at the end of the year it's 70%. His lowest YPA was 7.19 and this year it's 9.22. He's got a solid arm, acceptable size, and runs a pro style offense. He's significantly better than Geno as a prospect. He'd have been the third QB in the Luck/RG3 year but he's still awesome.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:00
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 I wouldn't compare him to Wilson except taller; Bridgewater looks like a stiff wind would knock him over compared to Wilson.
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Dec 7, 2013 06:24
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Parmesan Basil posted:Lots of quality QB names on that list Pretty strong refute to the good QB name theory. It appears it may work in college, but if Colt McCoy, Landry Jones, Kliff Kingsbury, Chase Holbrook, and even Brady Quinn can't make it in the NFL then names have no power.
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Dec 7, 2013 13:36
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Nix declared. Kind of had a down year but still the best DT talent in the draft. I'm worried about the meniscus tear though, since he was unbelievably fast for a guy with his build, which made him kinda special.
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Dec 7, 2013 16:53
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So I'm hoping this is the year the Bears finally draft a backup running back (probably later in the draft) instead of handing a sizable contract to a vet who turns out to suck (see Bush, Michael; Barber, Marion; Taylor, Chester; Jones, Kevin.) Where do you guys think Andre Williams and/or Carlos Hyde end up going? I think either of those guys could fill the short-yardage-hammer role that the Bears need to complement Forte, and if we could get one of them in the 3rd round or so, I'd pull the trigger immediately. I like Williams a lot more as a pure runner, but he might be gone earlier in the draft, and it doesn't hurt that Hyde is pretty good catching the ball.
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Dec 7, 2013 17:02
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I'd take Clowney over a Stafford pretty handily.Marquis de Pyro posted:It's worth pointing out that the reason Stafford has attempted so many passes is that before this season the Lions had 0 running game and an atrocious o-line and no one who can catch the ball besides Calvin Johnson. Even this year the WRs/TEs besides Megatron are comically inept.
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Dec 7, 2013 18:07
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INSPECTAH DECK posted:I'd take Clowney over a Stafford pretty handily. Al Davis?
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Dec 7, 2013 18:34
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Quest For Glory II posted:Grozz also said Stafford gets to play with the top WR in the NFL unlike Schaub, and I'm like, uhhhh is Andre Johnson chopped liver or something Andre Johnson is really good but Megatron is nearly uncoverable. I think it's fair to say that there's a reasonably substantial gap there.
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Dec 7, 2013 19:17
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Kirios posted:Every report that I can find online has Teddy Bridgewater as either the #1 or #2 overall prospect. It's not we're settling for Geno Smith at #1 here...he's an elite prospect in his own right. Most rankings through around or a little before this time last year had Geno Smith at similar heights, and Bridgewater's stock is taking the same late season dip that Smith's did last year (just pulling from one random place, he's dipped to 8 on ESPN's consensus Scouts Inc. board and 4th on Kiper's), even showing guys like Bortles and Carr and even Manziel ranking ahead of him in some circles. It's starting to look like that while this is a very deep QB class, perhaps comparable to 2011 in that respect, Bridgewater very well may not be The Guy depending on how the postseason process shakes out, and it may ultimately shake out that none of them are worthy of consideration ahead of Clowney, Matthews, Barr, etc. eta: Oh I mentally blocked out the McCarron boomlet too. A lot of competition up there at the top QB spots! oldfan fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 19:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:Is it too early to start talking about future superstars John O'Korn and Deonte Greenberry? It's never too early When was the last time Houston got a four star recruit before Greenberry?
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Dec 7, 2013 20:05
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Jimmy Garoppolo is playing on ESPN3 right now, if you want to see the great unknown in action
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Dec 7, 2013 20:09
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INSPECTAH DECK posted:I'd take Clowney over a Stafford pretty handily. I think the point was that the o-line couldn't run block for poo poo. And they weren't nearly as good in pass protection as they are this year.
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Dec 7, 2013 20:22
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Who's more valuable to the Lions: Stafford or Suh?
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Dec 7, 2013 20:27
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Grozz Nuy posted:Andre Johnson is really good but Megatron is nearly uncoverable. I think it's fair to say that there's a reasonably substantial gap there.
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Dec 7, 2013 20:32
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Quest For Glory II posted:They're both hall of fame receivers and Andre Johnson for a long time was as dominant a player as Megatron. Yeah, in his prime he was completely nuts. When people talk about how unstoppable Josh Gordon has been this season, a lot of them are comparing him to an early-career Andre Johnson.
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Dec 7, 2013 20:40
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SlipUp posted:Who's more valuable to the Lions: Stafford or Suh? Stafford without a doubt.
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Dec 7, 2013 20:51
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I still don't know that Andre isn't in his prime, I just think Schaub loving sucked this year. Last year Andre had 112 catches for 1600 yards, #2 behind Megatron. Even in a down year for him this year, he's still going to finish with 110+ catches for 1500+ yards, #2 in the league. The only thing that has really impacted his career are the injuries. But they haven't broken his body down so he may continue to produce for a long time to come. In just a couple of years he'll pass Randy Moss and TO and be #2 all time in receiving yards behind Jerry Rice. Barring a catastrophic injury, that is definitely going to happen, because he's only 3,403 yards away and he's averaged 95 yards per game since 2007. That's across 7 fuckin seasons. Calvin Johnson's hit that average across 6 seasons so far. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 20:54
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I don't know if we're replacing Stafford with Shaun Hill or a generic replacement in this scenario, but the gap between Stafford and Hill is a lot less than you'd think assuming Hill hasn't deteriorated significantly since his last significant time in 2010.
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Dec 7, 2013 21:00
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Quest For Glory II posted:I still don't know that Andre isn't in his prime, I just think Schaub loving sucked this year. Last year Andre had 112 catches for 1600 yards, #2 behind Megatron. Even in a down year for him this year, he's still going to finish with 110+ catches for 1500+ yards, #2 in the league. The only thing that has really impacted his career are the injuries. But they haven't broken his body down so he may continue to produce for a long time to come. Well, I think he's a different receiver now than he used to be. I don't watch a ton of Texans games, but he seems like a really big Reggie Wayne: one of those guys who's lost a little bit of the speed he used to have, but made up for it by getting really savvy over the years at getting separation and making contested catches. But yeah, even if he's not physically in his prime any more, he's one of the 3 or 4 best receivers in the NFL. If Bridgewater ends up on a team with Andre, plus Hopkins and a decent o-line, he could be productive in a hurry. Having a receiver who you can just hurl a jump ball to even when he's covered is a huge thing for a young QB: look at what it did for Stafford, and for Cutler when he was in Denver.
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Dec 7, 2013 21:05
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There's a kind of odd thing where people know Andre is good, but then that knowledge sort of recedes into a fog and they forget just how good he is. This season Dre: 95 rec, 1277 yards, 13.4 ypc, 98.2 ypg, 5 TD Megatron: 72 rec, 1299 yards, 18 ypc, 118 ypg, 12 TD AJ has had Schaub, Yates, and Keenum throwing to him and hasn't shown signs of stopping what he does. All 5 of his TD catches this season are from Keenum. Andre is #15 all time in receptions and rising. He's #17 in receiving yards. #2 in rec yards per game. Injuries and bad QBs and poor coaching and lovely seasons haven't slowed him down. Edit: I guess what I'm saying is motherfuckers act like they forgot about Dre. Arschlochkind fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Dec 7, 2013 |
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Dec 7, 2013 21:08
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Arschlochkind posted:Edit: I guess what I'm saying is motherfuckers act like they forgot about Dre. PFF has him as the #2 wideout in the league this year, too.
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Dec 7, 2013 21:43
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jeffersonlives posted:I don't know if we're replacing Stafford with Shaun Hill or a generic replacement in this scenario, but the gap between Stafford and Hill is a lot less than you'd think assuming Hill hasn't deteriorated significantly since his last significant time in 2010. I hate it when people make this claim. Hill is exactly what you want from your backup; someone that can come in and not-lose the game for you, and even make some plays to win if necessary, while the starter is down. But as much as people play the "Well all Stafford does is throw it to Calvin Johnson, he's not that good card," that is EXACTLY what Shaun Hill does- come in and chuck it to Calvin every single time. Stafford makes multiple reads now (didn't used to) and is capable of taking what the defense gives him instead of just defaulting to Big Play CJ, which Hill never really did when he got PT. Your wording is vague (gap is smaller than people think), but the difference between Hill and Stafford is huge. I can usually tell when to start ignoring friends' opinions on football - it's when they mention "IT'S TIME TO BRING IN SHAUN HILL!" This is NEVER the right option unless Stafford is legitimately hurt and trying to play through it. Even if you think Shaun Hill is smarter, or if you're of the opinion that you want him to come in and chuck the ball to Calvin more than Stafford is, at the very least you're losing 20 yards of air travel capability if you pull Stafford for Hill. Say what you will about his decision making, but his cannon is unbelievable. And there's no way Hill is getting any kind of practice with the first team. *I do love that Hill looks like a fat out of shape guy that just drank a couple of beers, put on a uniform and said "PUT ME IN COACH." I heart Shaun Hill.
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Dec 7, 2013 22:11
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Brian Fellows posted:I hate it when people make this claim. Hill is exactly what you want from your backup; someone that can come in and not-lose the game for you, and even make some plays to win if necessary, while the starter is down. But as much as people play the "Well all Stafford does is throw it to Calvin Johnson, he's not that good card," that is EXACTLY what Shaun Hill does- come in and chuck it to Calvin every single time. Stafford makes multiple reads now (didn't used to) and is capable of taking what the defense gives him instead of just defaulting to Big Play CJ, which Hill never really did when he got PT. Stafford's a good quarterback and he's better than Shaun Hill, but that's not the discussion. Shaun Hill is also putting up really pretty counting stats in that Lions offense, not quite as pretty for various reasons that are the basic reasons why Stafford is better than Hill to begin with, but he's a capable passer who probably should have been an eight or ten year starter had he gotten cleaner breaks instead of getting stuck in that dreaded "you're about the 20th or 25th best quarterback in the league and no longer a prospect so nobody actually wants to play you" area. Case in point: Shaun Hill's 2010 prorated to a full season is about 4200 yards and 25 touchdowns. That isn't quite what Stafford does over a full season and it doesn't mean that Shaun Hill's a better player than Stafford - he's not, Stafford is able to maintain similar to a bit better rates at higher usage because he's a more gifted passer - but the concept that every team that doesn't have a Designated Franchise Quarterback is consigned to running out Geno Smith and Blaine Gabbert type atrocities is silly. Some teams choose to run out really bad, sub-replacement level quarterbacks because of poor team design or sunk draft costs that the GM or coach won't admit or whatever. Shaun Hill is just fine and he won't cripple your offense and those sorts of things. So yes if all else was equal, I'd at least think about taking Suh and Shaun Hill over Stafford and Andre Fluellen, and if I was convinced about Suh's consistency in the run game and makeup it would probably be a stronger lean in that direction. I don't think it's an obvious answer to take Stafford just because he's the quarterback and you just always take the quarterback, all of this is about asset allocation and relative importance and replacement quality and all of those stupid things.
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Dec 7, 2013 22:46
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TheChirurgeon posted:Is it too early to start talking about future superstars John O'Korn and Deonte Greenberry? Not too early for Greenberry, that kid's a stud on the field. And maybe off the field, I don't know.
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Dec 8, 2013 01:42
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Man, that argument looked a hell of a lot stupider when I was confusing Shaun Hill with Shaun King.
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Dec 8, 2013 02:45
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Wanvig posted:Not too early for Greenberry, that kid's a stud on the field. And maybe off the field, I don't know. Greenberry figured out a lot in the offseason. He expected to come in and dominate everyone and when that didn't happen he had to reevaluate. He's gotten his ego in check and it's obviously helped. He's a cool guy off the field though. He's had dinner at my house a couple of times and he's always very polite.
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Dec 8, 2013 03:45
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Daric posted:Greenberry figured out a lot in the offseason. He expected to come in and dominate everyone and when that didn't happen he had to reevaluate. He's gotten his ego in check and it's obviously helped. He's a cool guy off the field though. He's had dinner at my house a couple of times and he's always very polite. Since it looks like you're in the know (more so than me, at least) any idea how his ankles/feet are doing? I heard on the radio he had both ankles taped during the Cincy game, and then he sat out the SMU game. Also, do you need a new best friend or anything? Where can I send my resume?
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Dec 8, 2013 05:07
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Wanvig posted:Since it looks like you're in the know (more so than me, at least) any idea how his ankles/feet are doing? I heard on the radio he had both ankles taped during the Cincy game, and then he sat out the SMU game. My sister is a sports management major and she became friends with Trevon Stewart before he came to the school. She became friends with most of the players in her grade through him so they come over for dinner every once in a while. Hell, Trevon came over for my family's thanksgiving last year because they couldn't go home. I'll ask Greenberry tomorrow but I'm sure he'll be fine for the bowl game. He did twist his ankle a bit during the Cincy game and had a boot on for the SMU game but it was just precautionary. He'll be fine.
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Dec 8, 2013 05:26
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I guess the problem people say is they don't know they are getting Stafford, so they'd rather have Clowney. But this argument is flawed because you don't know if you are getting Julius Peppers or Vernon Gholston. 
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Dec 8, 2013 07:41
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Sataere posted:I guess the problem people say is they don't know they are getting Stafford, so they'd rather have Clowney. But this argument is flawed because you don't know if you are getting Julius Peppers or Vernon Gholston. Or they could be getting a Stafford in Clowney
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Dec 8, 2013 15:13
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Clowney reminds me a lot of Carlos Dunlap. All world prospect, huge, made highlight reel plays during their sophomore year, phoned it in junior year, fell in the draft process. Of course Dunlap is turning into a perennial pro bowler, and that'll probably happen to Clowney too because GMs are stupid and care about things like entourages.
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Dec 8, 2013 16:34
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Clowney likes to get tipsy in gas station stores?
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Dec 8, 2013 17:55
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Clowney likes to get tipsy in gas station stores? Who doesn't?
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Dec 8, 2013 19:02
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Are there any corners who could sneak into the top 10 this year? Also, how would Anthony Barr fair in a 4-3? He'd presumably still be a linebacker, but it seems like after Clowney most of the top D prospects this year are geared more towards 3-4? I know that Nix from Notre Dame declared and as much as I want a dominating NT, I'm a bit weary of a 340 pound guy with knee problems. It will be interesting to see who rises into the top half of the draft.
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Dec 9, 2013 02:19
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I'm starting to think linebacker might be more of a need for Miami than Oline.
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Dec 9, 2013 02:48
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Aniki posted:Are there any corners who could sneak into the top 10 this year? Also, how would Anthony Barr fair in a 4-3? He'd presumably still be a linebacker, but it seems like after Clowney most of the top D prospects this year are geared more towards 3-4? I know that Nix from Notre Dame declared and as much as I want a dominating NT, I'm a bit weary of a 340 pound guy with knee problems. It will be interesting to see who rises into the top half of the draft. Wasn't Floyd playing nose for a while? What happened with that?
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Dec 9, 2013 02:53
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TheBizzness posted:I'm starting to think linebacker might be more of a need for Miami than Oline. Our best one is Koa Misi. We really have no reason to NOT put Dion Jordan at WOLB and get rid of Wheeler. Wheeler is a great pass rusher but thats about it. Hes very aggressive vs the run but he's blocked too easily
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Dec 9, 2013 02:55
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