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A few things have been bugging me: 1. How did Misty have Stevie, her cabin, her knowledge of swamp water's properties, etc. two weeks after being burned? I thought she was part of the group that murdered her; she was shown worshiping with them, after all. Wouldn't she have lived with them as well? [Does anyone else think Misty would have worked better as the victim of a burning a decade or so in the past?] 2. Madison's heart murmur (or whatever) kept her from being Supreme. Do other conditions-- Down Syndrome, perhaps?-- have the same impact? 3. The witch hunter said they've been fighting witches for centuries, well before Salem. Doesn't this show Laveau's version of history (that the Salem witches stole their magic from the slaves) to be a load of poo poo? Why would she lie? Who started that narrative? There's definitely more, but that's all I can think of at the moment. VV That's fair. My phrasing was poor. VV gnomewife fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 03:31
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AGirlWonder posted:2. Madison's heart murmur (or whatever) kept her from being Supreme. Do other conditions-- Down Syndrome, perhaps?-- have the same impact? Well it didn't keep her from being Supreme. I think its more like if she was Supreme a health condition like that would take care of itself.
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Dec 15, 2013 03:51
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Cordelia told the Council that Madison couldn't have been the next Supreme because they have "radiant health" and her heart murmur disqualified her. I guess it's possible she lied about it, since she was trying to defend her mother against killing her. Really I think what happened is more poor continuity and backtracking, and they threw in the heart murmur thing because it was convenient at the time to keep the mystery alive, but now that Madison is back they want you to believe it could still be her. As for Nan, I don't think down syndrome necessarily disqualifies her since it's something she was born with rather than contracted. As far as Misty's cabin, I guess I just assumed it belonged to the hunters she came across and she managed to acquire whatever she wanted from a nearby town or something. I suppose it's possible that she had always lived there and she stumbled upon the religious service. But again, a case of not tying up every end, including the witch hunter dialogue. Although you can argue he was referring to Laveau's breed of witches that they have fought for centuries and not necessarily just the Salem breed.
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Dec 15, 2013 05:44
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Is Nan's character even supposed to have Down Syndrome, or are people just assuming that?
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Dec 15, 2013 05:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Is Nan's character even supposed to have Down Syndrome, or are people just assuming that? I've always wondered if Nan wasn't "glamoring" the whole audience and Coven. Appearing with down syndrome makes her seem non-threatening, but we've seen that she is both intelligent and bad rear end. Just one of the few theories that have crossed my mind.
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Dec 15, 2013 05:53
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You know one really hosed up aspect with the zombie sex I hadn't even stopped to consider: Madison's into a zombie made up of all the guys that gang raped her. I mean... that's hugely hosed up but I almost think even the show writers didn't think that one's ramifications out. That's just all kinds of skin-crawly.escape artist posted:I've always wondered if Nan wasn't "glamoring" the whole audience and Coven. Appearing with down syndrome makes her seem non-threatening, but we've seen that she is both intelligent and bad rear end. Just one of the few theories that have crossed my mind. I wish her mind powers were a little more established. They never really stated Fionna can block her, because if she can't, well.. this season should have been much shorter. Or the butler, for that matter. She can't hear his demented thoughts without an interrogation? She can't not others. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 10:39
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From Reddit:thaze7 posted:I put the end of Beyoncé's music video for Ghost to the American Horror Story theme song, and didn't edit anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_yDrzrJxNs It just syncs up so well. Anyway, this latest episode finally looks like things are starting to come together this season. I hope they continue with this pace for the remaining episodes. bowser fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 18:27
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bowser posted:From Reddit: That's beautiful.
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Dec 15, 2013 18:40
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The whole "Supreme" stuff feels like either more Ryan Murphy nonsense where he wants to sustain a mystery across the season but doesn't really know how to do that logically so he keeps throwing up "well OBVIOUSLY it's <person x>"/"there's NO WAY it could be <person x>" and weird rules and backstory along the way before finally landing on the person everyone actually called from the beginning (in this case, probably Zoe), or not even the coven itself knows exactly what makes someone the Supreme. 1) All witches have a power specialty. (Later episodes: Most/All witches grow and gain new powers without necessarily making them the Supreme.) 2) The Supreme embodies 'all' the powers of witchery. (Later episode: Fiona could not read minds until her chemotherapy treatment.) 3) Side to #2, the new Supreme must demonstrate the 7 wonders. (What do those 7 wonders entail if not apparently telepathy if Fiona couldn't do that?) 4) The Supreme is the picture of 'radiant' health. (What defines 'radiant' health? Disqualifies Madison, and possibly Nan? Would anyone besides Cordelia know this to tell her up-front that it's not possible?) 5) When the new Supreme begins to grow into her powers, the old Supreme fades. (Fiona has cancer but we haven't really seen anyone besides Zoe and Madison be able to do anything 'new', power-wise.) 5) The new Supreme can't die, or has the ability to bring herself back from the dead? (Is the justification Myrtle uses to say that Misty is the new Supreme.) It all feels very "We don't want to tell you who it is yet so we'll keep making up random 'rules' of being a Supreme until we finally reveal in the last episode that it was the obvious choice all along." Edit: Also, have they ever actually said what Cordelia's main power is? We only ever see her mixing potions or reading spells from a book (which is apparently something any old witch can do), and then having 'the sight', I think? xeria fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 20:27
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xeria posted:5) When the new Supreme begins to grow into her powers, the old Supreme fades. (Fiona has cancer but we haven't really seen anyone besides Zoe and Madison be able to do anything 'new', power-wise.) Didn't Nan use telekinesis a few episodes back? I think the only people who haven't developed new powers are Queenie and Misty.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:30
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If anything, I think this season will end with yet another "bad guy" emerging at the last minute, while not really tying up the previous story lines in any satisfactory way.
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Dec 15, 2013 20:43
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xeria posted:The whole "Supreme" stuff feels like either more Ryan Murphy nonsense where he wants to sustain a mystery across the season but doesn't really know how to do that logically so he keeps throwing up "well OBVIOUSLY it's <person x>"/"there's NO WAY it could be <person x>" and weird rules and backstory along the way before finally landing on the person everyone actually called from the beginning (in this case, probably Zoe), or not even the coven itself knows exactly what makes someone the Supreme. The whole thing is pretty poorly defined and the show is starting to feel like it was designed to go multiple-seasons and has no is dragging on this way too much, I agree. Honestly the thing that's kind of making me double take is the fact we're so close to the end of the season run and we're totally going into "Keep asking questions, give no answers" territory. The Supreme thing feels all over the place and even more, it's hard to really care about it. We all know that this person won't take over until the very end with a main character's death and since the story is over at that point, it is really, really hard to care. Again, it feels like it's teasing this question for a "Season 2" when there won't be one. Bottom Liner posted:If anything, I think this season will end with yet another "bad guy" emerging at the last minute, while not really tying up the previous story lines in any satisfactory way. I think that already happened this episode with the Witch Hunter megacorporation thing. Though, we haven't seen Zackery Quinto yet and I'd be shocked if he doesn't have at least a one-episode run.
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Dec 15, 2013 21:17
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I really hope they explore the trauma/emptiness of being resurrected some more, but it seems like that's another idea they've thrown out entirely which makes it some truly silly plot baggage. In Murder House, everyone who dies comes back as ghosts, which gives the first season an opportunity to kill off most of their characters in gruesome ways but keep them on-screen as ghosts throughout the season. That's central to the horror element of Murder House, though--you're trapped in that house for eternity as a ghost. So far we have Misty, Kyle, Madison, Queenie, and Myrtle who've been resurrected bodily and as of Kyle's cards with Fiona scene, there seem to be absolutely no negative repercussions other than short-term emo horniness. I'd argue that LaLaurie, the Axeman, and Fiona (last episode when Spalding's ghost stops her from poisoning herself at the brink of death) have all also experienced "resurrections" of a sort. LaLaurie is long-dead history to everyone but the witch/voodoo ladies, she's dug out of the ground and thrown into modernity. Axeman is a ghost made corporeal or something?? Anyway, it feels like "resurrection" really should be another major theme of this season. There are some hints of character growth after their resurrections, but it feels like it's mostly been abandoned. I'll be really disappointed if they don't go any further with it, because then it'll just have been a cheap plot device. Edit: and maybe some juxtaposition of Fiona's running from death and all the other characters' deaths and resurrections. That's pretty central to Fiona's character at this point, she's willing to kill Madison and Myrtle to avoid a new Supreme rising (meaning Fiona's death). What would happen if Fiona dies and Misty resurrects her? I'm not a TV writer, but it bothers me they haven't done much with the death/resurrection theme. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 22:50
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Queen Elizatits posted:I'm also voting she's gone for good. Isn't that the point of whatever magic bullets he was using, they can't come back with their witch magic? Also this may be a spoiler if you don't read interviews so just in case Ryan Murphy said in an interview that they up until episode 9 of coven they wanted to either do a coven spinoff or have season four of AHS be a continuation. When they were writing episode 9 they were going to kill off a character and someone pointed out they couldn't because they wanted him/her in the spinoff. And that's when they decided coven would only be one season because they didn't want to be hampered like that. So I'm going to guess that was Queenie. Quoting this from a couple pages ago because it just occurred to me that they might not have been talking about Queenie in that interview. It could be Hank or, at a far stretch, Luke they were referring to (as in, the spinoff could have been about the witch hunters or something instead of just a hard continuation of Coven, including Queenie. Pellisworth posted:Edit: and maybe some juxtaposition of Fiona's running from death and all the other characters' deaths and resurrections. That's pretty central to Fiona's character at this point, she's willing to kill Madison and Myrtle to avoid a new Supreme rising (meaning Fiona's death). What would happen if Fiona dies and Misty resurrects her? I'm not a TV writer, but it bothers me they haven't done much with the death/resurrection theme. Yeah, there's a number of different possible themes at play through this season, and almost all of them have been handled mostly at surface level. It's annoying, because this universe and its characters could be really interesting if the writing actually dug into it even a little. xeria fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 23:00
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If the Big Bad of this season turns out to be a Megacorp with infinite resources and weaponry being wielded by highly trained supernatural assassins - yet can't manage to kill a bunch of teenage girls and other "witches" who have no offensive capabilities whatsoever (in a house with no physical or magical defenses) .... I don't even know.
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Dec 15, 2013 23:23
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According to Myrtle when she brought back Cordelia's sight, there's something to death and resurrection somehow magnifying the gifts of a witch. But this wasn't the case for Madison, she hasn't displayed any level of change in general in terms of gifts (or, sadly, temperament really, come to think of it). Misty has, though it was through her hands that Myrtle was brought back to life. It would be interesting if a witch became a Supreme posthumously, I feel. Like if Fiona died and was resurrected and in doing so came into her own powers 100-fold, gaining perspective along with it. Maybe it's the burning at the stake which brings this kind of change about? But there's not been any consistency with that storyline regarding resurrection, which as Pellisworth mentions is one of the central themes. It really should have been / should be more explored.
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Dec 16, 2013 01:57
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Well Misty did say that Madison had been dead too long/had too much death in her and almost didn't bring her back. Maybe that's why. Or because Ryan Murphy.
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Dec 16, 2013 03:37
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xeria posted:5) The new Supreme can't die, or has the ability to bring herself back from the dead? (Is the justification Myrtle uses to say that Misty is the new Supreme.) I think one of the so called "Seven Wonders" must be the power of resurgence, which is why Myrtle is so convinced it's Misty. However, Zoe already demonstrated this in like episode 2 when she brought Kyle back to life, pretty much without Madison's mystical help. The feat even drew Misty to her, iirc?
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Dec 16, 2013 03:47
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fullroundaction posted:If the Big Bad of this season turns out to be a Megacorp with infinite resources and weaponry being wielded by highly trained supernatural assassins - yet can't manage to kill a bunch of teenage girls and other "witches" who have no offensive capabilities whatsoever (in a house with no physical or magical defenses) .... I don't even know. And it raises the question again, why are they hiding their powers? Episode one established that the Harry Potter books exist in this universe which means that it's a world where people have no problem with the idea of superpowered individuals. They won't be hunted or tormented if they go on the news and demonstrate their powers, they'll be given a reality show on Bravo.
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Dec 16, 2013 03:57
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Random Stranger posted:And it raises the question again, why are they hiding their powers? Episode one established that the Harry Potter books exist in this universe which means that it's a world where people have no problem with the idea of superpowered individuals. They won't be hunted or tormented if they go on the news and demonstrate their powers, they'll be given a reality show on Bravo. That's a pretty huge risk to take. Always the chance the government(s) would quarantine and experiment on them, if not outright kill them due to how dangerous they are (able to flip machines, light fires, hypnotize or even suck the life out of you using their minds.) Not to mention all the people of the world wanting to use their powers, resurgence and immortality in particular, if not want to acquire them for themselves. It would likely be a very X-Men "Die Mutie Scum" situation, which all comes back to the original comparison we made with the school.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:15
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By the way, I really don't know how to feel about the bad mother figure/child abuse theme this season. The writing treatment of women's sexuality in general feels very heavy-handed, from Zoe and her Killer Vag, Queenie and her disturbing Minotaur sex scene, FrankenTate's hosed up mom, Christian Crazy Mom and her bleach enema to purify the thoughts, etc. I realize this is AHS and things tend to play on the hosed up side in general, but this season is heavily Woman Season, and in it there's such a hosed up schism between female sexuality and the integration of motherhood. There isn't a single mentally healthy or stable woman in the coven at all, unless you count Nan, who remains asexual in treatment, as well as Myrtle, who is shown as a spinster, and also Cordelia, who seemed reasonably sexually healthy until we found out about her troubles conceiving and she was blinded and withdrew from Witch Hunter Husband. It seems like every time there is a male in the picture in any form, there is some kind of insane hosed up reaction from the women. The only one who seems moderately healthy sexually is Fiona, and she is screwing a ghost and is dying of cancer in the process. It's just a huge female cast of some fairly horrible people, the only ones with real outward strength (except for Misty) are completely hosed up. Witches being another adjective for any woman who is impossible to control or contain, etc . I know I'm not making complete sense, it's just that I wish they could strike some good balance, write with some depth, write characters who aren't completely one-dimensional. With exceptions of Fiona (and her early days with Myrtle), the males, even though they get the backseat this season, get a back story. They're more fleshed out, in some ways. ...And to not keep giving us impossible choices in terms of women and their sexuality : the hosed up mother, the spinster, the vengeful vag, the vengeful Voodoo queen, the victim, the asexual creature, the voodoo doll, etc. These are less women/people and more like parodies of characters. There are no facets to these characters besides those things, it feels like very poor treatment. MadSparkle fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 05:23
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The season seems to be presenting its viewpoint on women and female empowerment not from a perspective of solidarity or misogyny, but rather from straightforward gynophobia. I don't think the show wants us to hate women, but I don't think it's willing to take a firm pro-woman stance. Instead, it presents women as beings of mystery and danger, to be feared and wondered at from a healthy distance, both physical and emotional. It'll be interesting to see how that theme gets resolved in the concluding episodes.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:34
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Random Stranger posted:And it raises the question again, why are they hiding their powers? Episode one established that the Harry Potter books exist in this universe which means that it's a world where people have no problem with the idea of superpowered individuals. They won't be hunted or tormented if they go on the news and demonstrate their powers, they'll be given a reality show on Bravo. Well don't forget that there are people calling harry potter the devil and even excluding the obvious nut-jobs who freak about fictional characters there's something of a gap between the general public celebrating a series of children's novels and actual witches outing themselves. Just think of the (literal) witch-hunt that would happen within the government when they realized an anonymous witch might have put the magical whammy on any number of people w/ access to sensitive information, from an influential Senator, to an NSA worker, to the President himself.
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Dec 16, 2013 05:45
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bowser posted:From Reddit: This is amazing and almost makes up for this season lacking a Name Game moment so far.
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Dec 16, 2013 06:29
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I don't know, last episode was incredibly funny. I need Kathy Bates's singing as my ringtone, alarm clock, personal theme song, etc. EDIT: I was under the impression that heart murmurs are a congenital defect. Down Syndrome/Trisomy 21 is, obviously, a genetic disorder, but I would assume they'd both negate the carrier from being Supreme.
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Dec 16, 2013 06:37
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AGirlWonder posted:EDIT: I was under the impression that heart murmurs are a congenital defect. Down Syndrome/Trisomy 21 is, obviously, a genetic disorder, but I would assume they'd both negate the carrier from being Supreme. I think you might be thinking about this harder than the people who write the show.
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Dec 16, 2013 08:29
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Just finished season 2 of this show. Starting season 3. Man Season 2 started off amazing, but after Sister Devil got killed off it just kinda petered off. The cannibals never being utilized for anything also was a letdown, as well as Nazi Doctor not having a more satisfying conclusion. Still good overall. Also season 1 was really weird. It was like a bunch of goofy and wacky ghosts living together who sometimes kill people but are otherwise cool people. More Thaddeus could have solved that. Also did the landlord know about the ghosts? She did refer the two gay guys to them so I'm assuming she did. limeincoke fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 08:37
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AGirlWonder posted:I don't know, last episode was incredibly funny. I need Kathy Bates's singing as my ringtone, alarm clock, personal theme song, etc. Oh, I'm definitely still enjoying Coven and will continue watching the season. It just seems to be more toward the campy fun True Blood end of the spectrum rather than a serious drama/horror like Hannibal. I think the first two seasons struck reasonably good balances between the two extremes, but the third is really lacking in the horror department. I realize Ryan Murphy has said Coven was supposed to have a lighter tone, but there doesn't even seem to be a coherent overarching plot to make this much of a drama. It's still pretty good TV, but for different reasons than the first two seasons (other than standout actors).
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Dec 16, 2013 09:13
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Huh, looks like the network accidently ran Supernatural in American Horror Story's time slot. Seriously, they air back to back here, so when an father is teaching his kid about being a Hunter and how they've been Hunters for generations, I thought I was seeing another Winchester Family Flashback. Except American Horror Story has a budget. And young 'Dean' didn't call the witch a bitch. Edit: Looks like these are more like the well-funded Hunters in New World of Darkness. I feel like Hank is a more compelling protagonist than Zoe. Edit: Oh god, murder by bee! The witches in the Wicker Man remake would approve. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Dec 16, 2013 |
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Dec 16, 2013 11:50
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The Kind One posted:Calling it now. Bates head will be sewed on Queenies body. There was a movie like this, where a racist's head is attached to a black man's body. So there's 2 heads.
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Dec 16, 2013 12:37
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Am I the only one who's noticed, or thinks it's weird, that Nan can't seem to hear Overly Religious Mom's thoughts? Maybe she's a witch, or monster, or big bad herself. Beyond, y'know, being an abusive, murdering religious zealot.
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Dec 16, 2013 12:54
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AGirlWonder posted:A few things have been bugging me: Just because Laveau was told/believes something, doesn't make it true. Maybe it's legend and lore in the voodoo world. Doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
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Dec 16, 2013 12:57
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Stolen from the AV Club comments: Witches ain't poo poo and they ain't sayin' nothing A hundred Kathy Bates can't tell me nothing I put beez in the car, bee beez in the car I put beez in the car, bee beez in the car
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Dec 16, 2013 13:01
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10 Beers posted:Am I the only one who's noticed, or thinks it's weird, that Nan can't seem to hear Overly Religious Mom's thoughts? Maybe she's a witch, or monster, or big bad herself. Beyond, y'know, being an abusive, murdering religious zealot. More likely is probably that Nan can only 'hear' one person at a time. Or Nan can only hear someone when the scene/plot demands it.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:03
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escape artist posted:I've always wondered if Nan wasn't "glamoring" the whole audience and Coven. Appearing with down syndrome makes her seem non-threatening, but we've seen that she is both intelligent and bad rear end. Just one of the few theories that have crossed my mind. It would explain how she's able to get the guys so easily. It would be kind of a back-handed way to treat the character, though. "Oh you thought you were looking at a downs syndrome girl being badass and awesome despite what's usually a disability, but I'm actually totally hot!!!" Count Chocula posted:Witches ain't poo poo and they ain't sayin' nothing
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Dec 16, 2013 19:26
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It's hard for me to see the actress, who is a DS awareness advocate, being willing to act that out.
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Dec 16, 2013 19:32
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So Christian boy's mom offed the dad by filling the car with bees after she caught him cheating on her, and she did it so that she wouldn't get fingered for murdering the guy. I thought she put like, a bee in the car. Turns out she filled that fucker up with 500 discount bees. Then no one figured out it was a murder? I mean gently caress, the writers think we're stupid, but they don't have to go ahead and make everyone in the show's universe a bunch of morons too. Where's the suspension of disbelief?
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Dec 16, 2013 20:07
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This is not a realistic show. Really, writers, you expect me to believe gravity doesn't effect rabbits if they don't look down? Come on!
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Dec 16, 2013 20:14
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Doltos posted:So Christian boy's mom offed the dad by filling the car with bees after she caught him cheating on her, and she did it so that she wouldn't get fingered for murdering the guy. Don't forget that part of her cunning plan was to stand out in the open and watch this all take place. Instead of you know ... creating a believable alibi or ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT SHE DID.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:38
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Doltos posted:So Christian boy's mom offed the dad by filling the car with bees after she caught him cheating on her, and she did it so that she wouldn't get fingered for murdering the guy. Lower the windows and the bees will dispose of themselves. You'd have a harder time getting the bees to stay in the car, really.
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Dec 16, 2013 21:44
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