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I have a soft spot for FF8 just because it can be broken so hard, but goddamn is the story poo poo. Even the premise is pretty hosed up: hey lets run a PMC using child soldiers 
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Dec 30, 2013 02:51
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FFVIII could use a lot more NORG in my opinion. At least that scene with him was pretty memorable and not just because of the Cid being married to Edea twist. There's something WTF about him that I like. I wish we could have joined the Garden Master faction in the little civil war. And I always loved how those creepy Garden Faculty bastards just kinda vanish never to be seen again after you kill NORG. You have to wonder where exactly they went since you were adrift at sea.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:24
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NikkolasKing posted:FFVIII could use a lot more NORG in my opinion. At least that scene with him was pretty memorable and not just because of the Cid being married to Edea twist. There's something WTF about him that I like. I wish we could have joined the Garden Master faction in the little civil war. Norg and his twist could propel a more focused game all by itself. Instead in FFVIII its set dressing for a dungeon to be discarded when its no longer cool. Much like the rather interesting mission breakdowns with diagrams and timings that just stop happening when the plot is bored with the "SeeD is a PMC" plot line. Fister Roboto posted:My favorite was when an elite team of mercenaries decided that performing their mission to assassinate an insane brutal despot was of lower priority than apologizing to a teenage girl for hurting her feelings. Thats #10. #11 is in the exact same scene where her defying orders runs counter to the only character trait she has been given which is "never defy your captains orders" Like Imp Atom said I'm now realizing that staying at 12 dumbass things for that point in th egame when I haven't even gotten into the sheer madness that is operation Dollet and its aftermath is folly.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:30
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Are you playing through VIII again despite hating it?
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Dec 30, 2013 03:31
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I admire FF8 for being so gonzo. Like FF7, it's very experimental in presentation and has a recurring theme about the unreliability of memory (in this case, it's about just plain forgetting about the past and living in the moment according to whim and circumstance, rather than inventing false memories and false history). It's not as successful an experiment as its predecessor, but all of its missteps are consistent with, and can even be read as reinforcing, its thesis.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:38
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Bongo Bill posted:but all of its missteps are consistent with, and can even be read as reinforcing, its thesis. I think you're being just a wee bit generous there. FFVIII has a LOT of flaws, both narratively and gameplay-wise, and most of them have nothing to do with its themes.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:43
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Bongo Bill posted:I admire FF8 for being so gonzo. Like FF7, it's very experimental in presentation and has a recurring theme about the unreliability of memory (in this case, it's about just plain forgetting about the past and living in the moment according to whim and circumstance, rather than inventing false memories and false history). I always read from most people who defend the game that its main theme is fate, hence why deus ex machina bullshit is present front and center throughout the entirety of the game.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:53
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Mustach posted:Are you playing through VIII again despite hating it? I have a massive soft spot for FFVIII for having Triple Triad. I also adore the "turn off the random battles" feature and how easy it is to break through a myriad of ways. The story is just magical and I'm replaying it to refresh my memories and it only turns out to be more insane than I remember it. Its a trainwreck of fascinating plot ideas all thrown into a blender while a grown man screams into your face about his childish notion of love.
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Dec 30, 2013 03:57
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Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the stuff at Dollet? That was pretty early on so I don't remember much stupidity. Well, apart from Biggs and Wedge, and that's kinda their thing. I'll say this about VIII, it probably has the best Biggs and Wedge.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:01
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I won't go so far as say I like it, but I think Quistis' stupid decision to apologize is consistent with her character. She got fired for poor leadership skills and then proved it by being a lovely leader. The entire scene is still terrible though. Made me want to hit my head against the wall. Why did she need to bring Zell and Selphie to apologize? Leave them there to do your job! Or better, act like you aren't a moron and do your job yourself. I don't think they're is any major stupidity (except that apparently the Garden's final exam is to loving reenact D-Day, for reals). Could be wrong though, it might be dumber than I remember.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:12
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NikkolasKing posted:Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the stuff at Dollet? That was pretty early on so I don't remember much stupidity. Well, apart from Biggs and Wedge, and that's kinda their thing. Most of Dollet is ok since the setting isn't fully established but it starts putting in the bits that don't make any sense. It establishes that Seifer is both 17 and has somehow failed the final exam multiple times but they keep letting him try despite the final exam being, you know, actual combat in a live-fire zone with lives on the line and he gets to be Captain. It also undermines all future missions because it makes it clear that them being SeeD isn't something you hide on a mission; its your job and that's how you operate. It then establishes that in a world with an internet that you can download mind-erasing super weapons from broadcast television is apparently some amazing lost technology. Except even then it's been operating as of about 15 years ago. Which is 60 years after the fall of the ancient civilization that ruled the world. So people in Dollet are even in the world of FFVIII morons. Did I cover the part where they have internet, landing craft, and radar but apparently have to send someone on foot to alert people to pull out of a warzone? FFVIII is magical.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:12
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I will admit that the years don't make much sense, but they come up so infrequently that I never remember them and conveniently ignore them  Cannot Find Server posted:I always read from most people who defend the game that its main theme is fate Anonymous Robot posted:Okay. I don't remember a lot of FF8, and I'm not very far in it yet (first Laguna sequence), but this is a story about Squall learning to be a man, forge adult relationships, and understand his debt to society by being literally trapped in the body of his father during his own conception, thus recovering his patriarchal lineage from "amnesia" of being a teenager, isn't it? All that poo poo about TIME KOMPRESSION is incidental.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:15
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The way everything becomes much easier when you avoid any real experience and just sit around playing cards instead seems very Squall too.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:21
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NikkolasKing posted:Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the stuff at Dollet? That was pretty early on so I don't remember much stupidity. Well, apart from Biggs and Wedge, and that's kinda their thing. Dollet was their graduation exam, right? Without getting into more specific stupidness about the mission since I don't remember most of the dialog, 1. This was a graduation mission, based on events that had just occurred in the country. Would they have just not been able to graduate if war hadn't broken out? 2. Really? Sending a bunch of completely inexperienced children into a war zone as a "test?" If you live, you might graduate! 3. The students were both the soldiers and the captains in the mission. No real oversight from full-fledged SeeDs. How do they know how well anyone performed if even the captains are out to make themselves look good and graduate? There's no reliable data on which to grade anyone. 4. Why did they put Seifer, a student who has repeatedly failed to show the skills necessary to graduate, into a command role? The entire operation basically hinges on having decent commanders, and instead they use the proven gently caress-up. 5. What's with the totally arbitrary grading criteria? 6. This is more of a general thing, but do they even try to explain why Garden has access to huge legendary monsters that their children can summon, but the dominant military powers of the world have nothing even comparable? Edit: Oh yeah, and they were setting up a television tower to broadcast TV for the first time in, what, 15 years? Why would anyone still have a TV set up if it hasn't worked in over a decade? Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 04:22
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Schwartzcough posted:6. This is more of a general thing, but do they even try to explain why Garden has access to huge legendary monsters that their children can summon, but the dominant military powers of the world have nothing even comparable? The answer is really, really dumb. Gardens are themselves ancient Centra cities so any lost technology is stored there. Apparently the ancient Centra where huge into Basketball.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:33
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Schwartzcough posted:Dollet was their graduation exam, right? Without getting into more specific stupidness about the mission since I don't remember most of the dialog, 1. They probably would have gone hunting monsters like in the preliminary exam. Also Garden is a PMC so if there wasn't any fighting going on somewhere they'd have bigger problems. 2. Yes it's gross how they treat their child soldiers isn't it. 3. They're definitely collecting good data somehow and just not telling you because you get graded on kills, summons, dogs, etc. 4. No idea. Cid's a dumb rear end in a top hat. 5. What's arbitrary about it? 6. There's a few bits about GFs being controversial because research suggests they might possibly gently caress your brain up, plus they're apparently rare and you have to get them to agree to join you.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:34
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What bugs me about the Gardens is, they treat it like high schools, only everyone happens to know how to fight, and the only time they focus on the loss of life is when Trabia got bombed. The Metal Gear series, of all things, has a more believable depiction of child soldiers and the adults that they become. That's something else that's good about Final Fantasy XIV's writing: As generally lighthearted as it tends to be, they take a pretty thorough and unflinching look at what can happen to people who put themselves in harm's way -- not just adventurers, but even those who regularly associate with them. It's never enough to drag the whole story down, but it is enough to illustrate that your character is part of a class of people who have chosen an incredibly dangerous lifestyle, and it's just shy of outright calling out your plot armor as the reason you're not lying dismembered in some gross cave.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:50
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Barudak posted:The answer is really, really dumb. Gardens are themselves ancient Centra cities so any lost technology is stored there. Apparently the ancient Centra where huge into Basketball. As they should be, because Basketball is awesome. 
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Dec 30, 2013 04:52
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Tempo 119 posted:4. No idea. Cid's a dumb rear end in a top hat 4.) Several of the characters in the game comment upon the fact that Seifer is inordinately skilled as a combatant and an operative. He also gets the job done well- he just doesn't function in any kind of command structure. In another game, he might've been the hero. Also, Cid repeatedly states that he strongly desires a gunblade wielder for SeeD, which explains why Seifer kind of gets the boot when Squall graduates. 6.) There's a funny part at the graduation ceremony where one of the NORG-ites directly says to you, "Now that you are a SeeD, you may hear criticism about the dangerous effects of Guardian Forces. Be sure to ignore all of it." Here's hoping that the "hard to remember"/not remarkable fourth SeeD graduate shows up later in the game in a badass or surprising way.
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Dec 30, 2013 04:53
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Electric Phantasm posted:As they should be, because Basketball is awesome. You say that but given the rate at which FFVIII citizens forget recent events the art of Dunking has been lost, a memory of the sorceress' champions foul magicks.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:18
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FF8 suffers from a lot of the same problems as FF13, because it wants you to take it seriously but you can't because it's all anime high school bullshit. Yep it's an elite world-class mercenary school but they have short skirt uniforms and hall monitors and festival committees. So the serious parts are hilarious and the intentional comic relief is just white noise.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:36
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Barudak posted:I have a massive soft spot for FFVIII for having Triple Triad. Triple Triad is another part of the game I felt could have been really good. But they had to go gently caress it up with the whole rules crap. Goddamn I hated trying to get rid of Direct when it spread to an area I was trying to get cards in. It was an unnecessary time sink that added nothing but frustration to the game and really brought down Triple Triad a whole lot.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:39
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Tempo 119 posted:5. What's arbitrary about it? Looking at a FAQ, you lose points for: 1. Talking to nearly anyone, including your own instructors and Cid when they're giving you the mission. You are given no indication that you are not supposed to talk to anyone, in an RPG that is pretty much based on wandering around talking to people. 2. Taking a shortcut down a cliff for some reason. I guess soldiers aren't allowed to get dirty. 3. Not rescuing a dog by "talking" to it (but remember, don't talk to any people). 4. Evading a marauding deathbot by running into a building. But running around in circles for an hour killing random enemies rather than advancing towards your objective is good. And of course you're penalized for running away from battles, which means you need to know exactly when to walk and run during the robot chase, which is pretty much impossible to know unless you've played it a million times and experimented. Basically, the only way to know how to do well at the exam is to look it up online.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:42
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Barudak posted:Did I cover the part where they have internet, landing craft, and radar but apparently have to send someone on foot to alert people to pull out of a warzone? ...what it says about me that I know this, I don't know.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:48
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Couldn't they not send wireless transmissions (including broadcast TV before the game) because the Sorceress in space was jamming all the channels with stuff like "IWILLNOTLETYOUFORGETME" or whatever? Adel? They can clearly send some form of transmissions because they're capable of sending messages between Gardens, warships, and other locales even before you deal with Adel but I haven't gotten far enough to confirm she isn't only supposed to be blocking TV signal. Maybe she just hates Big Bang Theory? Its also a reason Squall is Dead doesn't work because the Adel transmissions which he knows nothing about show up pre/post his wounding just like the dream world continues to accurately represent the state of the world pre-Squall's "death." Edit: Ok, the dick kick on Zell when he's down is hilarious because not only is it an unexpected cheapshot the second guard puts his gun down to join in.
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Dec 30, 2013 05:53
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Everyone has cable but Adel's yelling on every radio frequency. Why everyone still has rabbit ears after 15 years, much less knows to tune them in to a gimmick broadcast is handwaved.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:03
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FF8 makes a lot more sense when you realize that everyone has alzheimers.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:10
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NovemberMike posted:FF8 makes a lot more sense when you realize that everyone has alzheimers. Except some of them don't. Selphie literally just didn't mention to everyone that they all grew up in an orphanage together and were raised by the person they're trying to assassinate because...? I hate you Selphie and I hope when you die Doomtrain takes you on a trip straight to the island closest to hell.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:13
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dis astranagant posted:Everyone has cable but Adel's yelling on every radio frequency. Why everyone still has rabbit ears after 15 years, much less knows to tune them in to a gimmick broadcast is handwaved.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:14
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Barudak posted:Except some of them don't. Selphie literally just didn't mention to everyone that they all grew up in an orphanage together and were raised by the person they're trying to assassinate because...? I hate you Selphie and I hope when you die Doomtrain takes you on a trip straight to the island closest to hell. Everyone.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:14
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See this is why Final Fantasy Eight will be immortal.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:22
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Barudak posted:Except some of them don't. Selphie literally just didn't mention to everyone that they all grew up in an orphanage together and were raised by the person they're trying to assassinate because...? I hate you Selphie and I hope when you die Doomtrain takes you on a trip straight to the island closest to hell. I thought that was Irvine?
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Dec 30, 2013 06:24
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Personally I very much enjoyed FF8's settings it's the best setting of any ff game, what with it being a really chill place that mixes a contemporary period with super modernity without jumping up its own rear end like FF13.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:26
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DACK FAYDEN posted:That is why there's all the text all over the screen before the broadcast starts, right? I'm not just misremembering? Given that I couldn't even remember Adel's name, I was a little afraid. Yep, that text is Adel hollering for them to come get her down from her prison in orbit or some poo poo. I guess that's the only bit of her magic they couldn't figure out how to turn off.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:26
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DACK FAYDEN posted:That is why there's all the text all over the screen before the broadcast starts, right? I'm not just misremembering? Given that I couldn't even remember Adel's name, I was a little afraid. Yes. I just double checked this dumb game but anything that should be fed by a Radio Transmission just loops an endless scream from Adel over and over again on it, hence nobody watches TV. Except they all have TVs still plugged in. And have massive TVs and TV stations that are still fully operational and maintained. And are explicitly able to send short-wave burst transmission over the frequency. Adel is the villain with build-up, world influence, and cultural and historical importance so of course she's used as the middle villain in a three villain circus. She's actually pretty neat as far as FF villains go because she has completely intelligible goals, uses a cool gimmick in the fight, and never once bothers to address the players because they're all beneath her. Cannot Find Server posted:I thought that was Irvine? Memory said it was Selphie and I'm almost there in game so if it turns out to be Irvine I'm going to figure out who wrote his character and force them to enroll in a writing class. Irvine is already in the running for "worst FF party member ever" and if its him not mentioning the amnesia he's gonna have an undisputed top spot. Barudak fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 06:27
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Barudak posted:
It's Irvine. Selphie claimed that while they didn't use GFs in Galbadia Garden, her memory still got hosed up because she used a gf she found when she was younger.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:33
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It's Irvine. Selphie handwaves her not mentioning away by getting a GF while training as a kid at Trabia.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:33
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Dragonatrix posted:It's Irvine. Selphie handwaves her not mentioning away by getting a GF while training as a kid at Trabia. Calaveron posted:It's Irvine. Selphie claimed that while they didn't use GFs in Galbadia Garden, her memory still got hosed up because she used a gf she found when she was younger. Irvine Kinneas please step on down and claim your prize as "Worst FF Party Memember." It was a tough competition but you've done it by being incompetent at your job, good at hiding it from your superiors, unable to talk to other human beings like a normal person, and withholding critical information from the rest of the squad/family for no reason. I hope you're happy knowing that someone whose only ability was talking to beavers is a better human being than you.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:40
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Barudak posted:Irvine Kinneas please step on down and claim your prize as "Worst FF Party Memember." It was a tough competition but you've done it by being incompetent at your job, good at hiding it from your superiors, unable to talk to other human beings like a normal person, and withholding critical information from the rest of the squad/family for no reason. I hope you're happy knowing that someone whose only ability was talking to beavers is a better human being than you. Hey Irvine is a cowboy so that automatically makes him not the worst FF party member. I mean for the love of god, you're putting him below Hope and Vanille. That's just rude.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:50
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chumbler posted:Hey Irvine is a cowboy so that automatically makes him not the worst FF party member. I mean for the love of god, you're putting him below Hope and Vanille. That's just rude. Irvine is a ponytail wearing cowboy, ergo he is not a cowboy. QED. Vanille is in the same realm of poo poo but she has the benefit of not having been trained from birth to do one thing, have everyone tell you they are amazing at one thing, and then reveal they are actually incapable of actually doing that one thing. And you know, being an awful human being that can't stop hitting on women to cover up his flagrant insecurities.
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Dec 30, 2013 06:55
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