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Trucking on with FFXIII. This is not going to get any better, is it? The combat is pretty fun, but basically everything else.. drat. The real problem I'm having is there is no set up, no world building, you jump in in media res with everything going to poo poo, but it's impossible to give a drat about why you should care about a thing after the tragedy occurs. FF7, you tool around the slums, get to know the people and it's weird whimsical nature, you learn whats at stake and what you are fighting over, so theres a reason to give a poo poo when the plate comes down. In 9 you tool around the Alexandria and it's a fun fantasy kingdom and so you give a drat when Bahamut starts tearing poo poo up and everything goes to hell. Even 8 gives you some time to get to know the ridiculous school before it gets attacked, god drat 13 is a mess. All this crazy spectacular poo poo happening and not one reason to give a drat. I'm not hugely far in (second flashback?) but are they ever going to actually let me see the civilisation I'm supposed to give a hoot about? I know it's linear, but the entire plot so far has been "run away from army/calamity, occasionally grab a breather" Does this ever actually improve or should I just hop over to Lost Odyssey now? (Everyone hates lightning apparently but she keeps hauling off and punching the paedophile in the face so she's OK with me)
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Dec 30, 2013 20:35
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ShineDog posted:I'm not hugely far in (second flashback?) but are they ever going to actually let me see the civilisation I'm supposed to give a hoot about? I know it's linear, but the entire plot so far has been "run away from army/calamity, occasionally grab a breather" No. There is no point where you decompress and experience the world. There are only two cities in the entire game, both dungeons. One at least you get to investigate the literal only room in the game owned by a currently living person and the other is a ghost town abandoned centuries ago. If combat isn't carrying you through FFXIII the promise of mission based combat (your reward for getting to the 20 hour mark) isn't going to woo you in for more. Switch to Lost Odyssey which has its own faults but does have a couple of standout moments in a game (end of Disc 1 is a personal favorite).
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Dec 30, 2013 20:39
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ShineDog posted:<words> You've answered your own question. If you're only a handful of the way into the game and you already hate it, I can promise you nothing the game shows you later on will change your mind. I've never understood that with a lot of people playing XIII way after it's been released. They know the game is widely panned, aren't a fan of the very introduction parts of the game, and yet wonder if it will get better. No. It won't. Stop playing and go play something else.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:40
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I'd say it gets better once everyone breaks off into groups and goes off on their own. Then it's pretty decent for a while before it totally tanks in the second half of the game. And I'll take Snow over Lightning any day. But you might enjoy the part I mentioned even more because Snow is absent for a very long time.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:40
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If you hate the characters that much, you'll hate the rest of the game. It's a game that's almost entirely character driven, with the plot being kinda secondary...or tertiary. And if the gameplay hasn't grabbed you yet, it never will. So yeah, just chalk it up as 'dammit squeenix' and move on.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:43
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Dragonatrix posted:You can get 10 Holy Wars from Gilgamesh's card, 100 Heroes is from Laguna's, yeah. The QoC only has the cards from her sidequest that you never got but that's the wrong way to do it because she's a pain on Disc 4. On the Ragnarok in Disc 4, the CC Club has every card that you don't currently own. It doesn't matter if you never had them, lost them to someone else or outright refined them. They have everything. The catch is that they shuffle the cards around themselves... except Diamond. Specifically, the left girl will almost always play whichever level 8, 9 or 10 cards you don't currently have in order (so from Chubby Chocobo first to Squall last). It's only one at a time, but she plays rare cards a lot more often than not. So wait, does that mean the supposedly unique character cards aren't?
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Dec 30, 2013 20:45
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Barudak posted:Switch to Lost Odyssey which has its own faults but does have a couple of standout moments in a game (end of Disc 1 is a personal favorite). Honestly, I think Lost Odyssey is a better Final Fantasy game than most Final Fantasy games, or at least any that were released in the last several years. Whether that speaks to Lost Odyssey's strengths or Final Fantasy's weaknesses, or both, I'm not sure. It was also the best 360-exclusive RPG released during Microsoft's big push for RPGs early in the generation, aside from perhaps Tales of Vesperia. The Thousand Years of Dreams really pushed it over the top for me personally. Fantastic soundtrack, too. Lost Odyssey was probably Uematsu's best work in a very long time.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:51
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I've always had a mild interest in the FF series but never played much of them. I played up to the 2nd disc of 7, barely played 8, and never touched 9. Played a good deal of 10. Way more of 11 than I should have, and only a bit of 12. A friend borrowed 13 to me and I played basically up to the end of what I thought was the tutorial and never touched it again. He told me I could sell the game because he cared that little about it. Now fast forward to now I've suddenly had this epiphany that I really want to play these games. I decided to buy 9 on my Vita and I'm loving it so far. Just got to disc 2 and I'm still trucking on. I also picked up 13 and I just got to the point where you get the 2nd Eidolen (sp?) and I'm also enjoying that. The story is a bit meh, but the gameplay is really fun. I'll continue to post my first FF impressions. I'm the most curious about FF13 and it's 2 spin off titles. Those of you who finished 13 and 13-2. Is it worth my time? Like I said, so far I really like the combat and the story isn't so bad that it turns me off. I've read in a lot of reviews that it takes a while before the actual good game rears it's head. Edit- looks like while I was composing this someone answered the question about FF13. I'm sure it's been asked a million times in this thread.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:51
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Barudak posted:and the other is a ghost town abandoned centuries ago. True story: the part that disappointed me the most in the whole game was when I got hyped to see Vanille's hometown in Pulse that she couldn't stop talking about because, hey, an actual city that I can walk around in after the clusterfuck that was Cocoon? Sign me up! I was as sad as Vanille was when I got there and found nothing. Well played, game. You made me feel the same thing the characters felt at that point. Screw XIII. The sequel is pretty okay though.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:52
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G-Whizard posted:I've always had a mild interest in the FF series but never played much of them. I played up to the 2nd disc of 7, barely played 8, and never touched 9. Played a good deal of 10. Way more of 11 than I should have, and only a bit of 12. A friend borrowed 13 to me and I played basically up to the end of what I thought was the tutorial and never touched it again. He told me I could sell the game because he cared that little about it. Now fast forward to now I've suddenly had this epiphany that I really want to play these games. I decided to buy 9 on my Vita and I'm loving it so far. Just got to disc 2 and I'm still trucking on. I also picked up 13 and I just got to the point where you get the 2nd Eidolen (sp?) and I'm also enjoying that. The story is a bit meh, but the gameplay is really fun. I'll continue to post my first FF impressions. I'm the most curious about FF13 and it's 2 spin off titles. Those of you who finished 13 and 13-2. Is it worth my time? Like I said, so far I really like the combat and the story isn't so bad that it turns me off. I've read in a lot of reviews that it takes a while before the actual good game rears it's head. If you like the combat, then yeah, you'll probably enjoy 13 and 13-2. 13-2's gameplay is probably better then 13, but don't expect any miracles from the story.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:54
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Hellioning posted:If you like the combat, then yeah, you'll probably enjoy 13 and 13-2. 13-2's gameplay is probably better then 13, but don't expect any miracles from the story. So what is Lightning Returns? Is that basically FF13-3?
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Dec 30, 2013 20:57
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Dr Pepper posted:So wait, does that mean the supposedly unique character cards aren't? Yep! In fact, refining certain cards and then rewinning them ad nauseum is the quickest way to max some stats if you really hate fun. Irvine's card is the one you use for Speed, for example.
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Dec 30, 2013 20:57
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If you're far enough in that you have two Eidolons and you're still enjoying it, then yes, you're probably going to enjoy the rest of it. The plot kinda shits itself by the time you reach Chapter 10 or 11, but the battle system will be completely opened by then so you can go crazy building parties and paradigms to your heart's content. As for 13-2, that's a very difficult question to answer. If you want "more FF13" then yeah, you'll get that much. But if you loved the combat, it's been tweaked in such a way that you can very, very easily outlevel the difficulty curve early on and you'll basically never have a challenge for most of the game. The plot is terribly done Chrono Trigger whose sole redeeming point is basically "Time Cop Snow". Also Paradoxes. Paradox, paradox, paradox, paradox, paradox, paradox, paradox, paradox 
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Dec 30, 2013 20:58
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When I played through 13 with my roommates, one of my roommates spent the entire first part going "ugh this is so terrible. When do we get to the part where the world opens up I hate this linearity" Then we got to the part where you're allowed to explore and his opinion changed to "oh. Well nevermind then. This is boring as balls give me back story advancement."
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Dec 30, 2013 21:02
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G-Whizard posted:So what is Lightning Returns? Is that basically FF13-3? Yes. Combat is slightly different, in that instead of having teammates, you are just controlling Lightning - and paradigms have been replaced a clothes changing system (change to warrior to do physical, mage to do magic, whatever to whatever - it's an extension of the combat system found in FFX-2). Sex Ferguson put up an explanation video and quick run-through of the demo, and explains it better than I can. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 21:05
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Do you want to be Don Corneo's companion for the evening? If yes, please get out a FAQ now because that quest is really easy to mess up, if no, don't worry about it (the quest is Cloud's adventure through Sector 6's LGBT scene). Passed that part already. I was partially interested in being picked by Don Corneo, but only because I wanted to get friendship points for Barret. I hosed it up because I did part of it without an FAQ, but oh well. My date with Barret will have to wait for another playthrough. Killing the rapist bodyguards was an ok substitute. quote:
From what I remember, the translation was better after you left Midgar. Midgar seems to be where they poo poo the bed as far as translation goes, which makes no sense, since it's the first few hours of the game and sets up the world. Oh Square.
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Dec 30, 2013 21:07
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ninjewtsu posted:When I played through 13 with my roommates, one of my roommates spent the entire first part going "ugh this is so terrible. When do we get to the part where the world opens up I hate this linearity" I completely agree with your friend. XIII lost whatever appeal it had for me once it opened up. It also had the worst dungeon in my FF experience. Give me FF2 Monster Rooms or Mysidai Tower which is pointless! Absolutely anything is better than Taejin's Tower.
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Dec 30, 2013 21:10
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My feeling is that what basically kills the game opening up is that it kind of totally destroys the pacing. As flawed as 13's story was, at least you'd constantly be getting new cutscenes and updates to the story constantly, which I really liked, as I've almost never actually finished any rpgs due to gameplay fatigue combined with having to go three hours before the next cutscene. But then the game world opens up and there really isn't anything interesting about it because you've essentially been dropped out in the middle of Bum-gently caress Nowhere, where all there is is some (admittedly good looking) generic wilderness scenery and a whole lot of fighting, and enough story to maybe, MAYBE cover about what an hour of playing previously would have covered. We ended up spending over half our time playing the game loving around doing quests ("well we just got totally destroyed by that boss. Guess we aren't allowed to walk further until we go back and spend five hours grinding") and hated every second of it.
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Dec 30, 2013 21:21
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ShineDog posted:Trucking on with FFXIII. This is not going to get any better, is it? Lost Odyssey is probably your best option but if you feel like sticking with 13 for a while longer there's a theme park area coming up where you get to wander around a bit, and some of the better plot threads come to a climax. If you get to the end of that and still aren't feeling it at all then definitely drop it. All the dungeons after that point are tedious and the story falls apart in a big way (I say this as someone who likes the game more than most).
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Dec 30, 2013 21:31
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How do people feel about Final Fantasy: The Four Heroes of Light? It kind of slipped under my radar and I can't really remember anyone talking about it. It seems interesting enough and I like the art, but is it actually a good game?
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Dec 30, 2013 21:41
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It's meh. The spiritual sequel, Bravely Default, is releasing in NA in February (and is already out in Europe), and though that game does have its own problems, it's still a pretty safe bet to check out. I enjoyed it.
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Dec 30, 2013 21:53
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I really liked it but I'm a whore for Job Systems
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Dec 30, 2013 21:56
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The 4 Heroes of Light is a charming little game with three big annoyances that might make you hate it despite its quality: you spend about half of the game without a full party, limiting your tactical options; the dungeons are visually monotonous featureless mazes of twisty little passages, all alike; and if you like upgrading a lot, you may have to grind (or worse, attempt the optional 100-floor dungeons that were so trendy back then). If you stick with it, you'll find a very well-produced retro throwback. It feels like a remake of a NES RPG that never existed, in a way that makes it pretty much the opposite of FFXIII. The towns are gorgeous and full of secrets (if the dungeons had been made as well as the towns it'd be one of my favorite RPGs), the plot is simple and breezy but substantial enough to care about if you want, the gameplay mechanics are novel and interesting (once you get used to how the auto-targeting works, at least), and it deserves a sequel. (Bravely Default is not its sequel; they just share an art director.)
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Dec 30, 2013 22:05
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Man I really wanted to like XIII (Its so pretty  ) and I'd like to see the ending, but I just really can't bring myself to play it anymore. Its just... blagh. I do not care.The thought of playing through XIII-2 and XIII-3 is daunting. I guess at least XIII-3 changes the combat... I guess I'll keep leveling in XIV, at least that's pretty cool.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:05
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Zaphod42 posted:Man I really wanted to like XIII (Its so pretty The ending in all its...ending. Defy your fate...by doing exactly what we asked you to do! And this trailer sums up XIII-2.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:16
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Pesky Splinter posted:The ending in all its...ending. Defy your fate...by doing exactly what we asked you to do! Its dumber than that because it pulls an FFVIII oh yeah rules never previously mentioned are super important in this ending so good luck trying to contextualize this within the framework of the rest of the game.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:18
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Is it just me, or like... from the very beginning I really hated the arbitrary "fal'Cie" thing and oh yeah crystals now you're an "l'Cie" ... Huh? Oh and hurry up or you'll become a "Cie'th"! Oh and we're "Pulse fal'Cie" don't confuse that with the "Coccoon fal'Cie"! Its like the direct opposite of good plot development, you're just making poo poo up. I have no idea whats going on, and nothing is interesting, it just seems overwhelmingly contrived and arbitrary. I usually love an in media res start, but it doesn't work here at all. Even after you know what it all means, it reads like the most overwrought terrible fanfiction. Also are those words more comfortable in French or Japanese or something? Because it just seems really awkward to say all the time, I feel like the localization should have changed it. And even the voice actors can't seem to agree on "el cie" or "la cie" or "luh cie" Just call them "The Masters" and "The Servants" or "Mastigos" and "Servos" or something. I guess I'm nitpicking. At least as awkward as "SeeD" was, they had a "Seeds in a Garden" theme going on. Metaphor for students growing in an academy, sure... at least that's a thing. Although I have no idea how localization teams decide when they should rename somebody "John" and when "Goku" is okay. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 23:27
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Saying that 13 'opens up' is rather misleading. After a bunch of hallways, the game dumps you in an enclosed, empty arena and makes you do 'missions' that are basically forced grinding before shoving you back in the hallway. There is nothing open or interesting about that area at all.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:33
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They're made up fantasy words. The vast majority of fantasy novels and fantasy stories and whatever use them constantly. Several of the most popular fiction novels of all time contain terms like Aes Sedai and A'dam or Muggles or Urk'hai or whatever. This isn't a case of it being a Japanese word kept. It's just a made-up fantasy word. It exists constantly in all forms of fiction. You're free to dislike it but you're going to get it in Dragon Age and Mass Effect just as readily as a JRPG. Also the localization did change them. Cie'th were "Cie Corpses" in Japanese. That's a case where I think they altered it for something that sounds better (since "cie corpse" is even more awkward in English) but makes it even more convoluted. Zaphod42 posted:Although I have no idea how localization teams decide when they should rename somebody "John" and when "Goku" is okay. Name changes depend on the tone you are going for and how you plan to convey that tone. Phoenix Wright changes all the names because the puns and humor are a big part of the Phoenix Wright series but they would not come across clearly with the Japanese names. Conveying the intent and idea behind the concept is more important in that case than conveying the literal intention, to the point they even changed the location to better convey what they were going for. Terra was "Tina" in Japanese because Tina sounds slightly exotic there but it would just sound normal in English so Woolsey went with the more understandable Terra instead, and that conveys a "this is an odd name" idea better. Fal'cie and l'cie are literally made up fantasy words. They make as much sense in any language and are explained in-context. Changing them wouldn't make much sense because they are explained exactly the same way in every language and changing them to "masters" and "servitors" doesn't actually convey the idea behind them clearly because they are a specific fantasy thing like Dementors or Ents or whatever. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 23:34
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ImpAtom posted:They're made up fantasy words. The vast majority of fantasy novels and fantasy stories and whatever use them constantly. Several of the most popular fiction novels of all time contain terms like Aes Sedai and A'dam or Muggles or Urk'hai or whatever. Many of them typically feature an outsider character to explain them so that readers can learn about them quickly. Or in others they use the set up period to feature poems, explanatory characters, or descriptive narration to provide context. Not saying FFXIII doesn't try it just doesn't do a great job of it because its very confident you'll pick all this up. If you aren't paying attention to when they say these things its easy to jumble them since they have an undefined root word, which while like a real language, can be a bit of a hamper if you don't know what that means. I actually liked the "cie" naming scheme its just a shame the game doesn't do much to make you care. FFXIII would have been improved a hundred fold if it was endless dungeons and a hub-city with no battles and just talking and setting moments.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Although I have no idea how localization teams decide when they should rename somebody "John" and when "Goku" is okay. Depends on they feel there is a viable reason to change the name. Sometimes it's to retain an edge of the "exotic", as how Tina, became Terra, for clearer pronunciation, Cefka to Kefka, or because the original name is too unusual, Mash to Sabin, say. There's as many reasons as there are grains of sand. Localization and translation are tricky business - it's not just a simple method of transcribing what is being said, but the intent behind it, or the evocative feel of the meaning. I never minded the Cie stuff. It's easy enough to grasp as made-up terms go. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 23:36
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Honestly, just from a "this pulls me out of the game" perspective, I'm more bothered by FFXV's goofy-rear end Latin names than I am Fal'cie and L'Cie. The adventures of SWORD FRIENDSHIP and Burning Amazing Knowledge are going to be awful hard to take.
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Dec 30, 2013 23:52
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly, just from a "this pulls me out of the game" perspective, I'm more bothered by FFXV's goofy-rear end Latin names than I am Fal'cie and L'Cie. The adventures of SWORD FRIENDSHIP and Burning Amazing Knowledge are going to be awful hard to take. But Latin is the normal go-to for 'cryptic ancient language' stuff. Even Harry Potter does it. That's perfectly comfortable. I guess its just too obvious if you know Latin or even basic Latin roots though, eh? Like the ole "Oh man I wonder who 'Alucard' is!!" its just too easy?
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Dec 30, 2013 23:58
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly, just from a "this pulls me out of the game" perspective, I'm more bothered by FFXV's goofy-rear end Latin names than I am Fal'cie and L'Cie. The adventures of SWORD FRIENDSHIP and Burning Amazing Knowledge are going to be awful hard to take. I'm quite looking forward to Night Light Sky, and Star Night Blossum, matching wits against the leader of Mist-World, Idol OldHead. 
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Dec 31, 2013 00:00
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Zaphod42 posted:But Latin is the normal go-to for 'cryptic ancient language' stuff. Even Harry Potter does it. That's perfectly comfortable. I guess its just too obvious if you know Latin or even basic Latin roots though, eh? Latin is the normal go-to but you usually see it for magic spells or place names or things like that. It's pretty rare to have a series where every character is given a name like Gladiolus Amicitia or Prompto Argentum. It's kind of the difference between Petrificus Totalus and "Hey guys, this is my friend Petrificus Totalus. Yeah, he's a statue. Kinda sucks." Admittedly other Final Fantasy games aren't that far off. (Cloud Strife and Zack Fair.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 00:02
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Barudak posted:I actually liked the "cie" naming scheme its just a shame the game doesn't do much to make you care. FFXIII would have been improved a hundred fold if it was endless dungeons and a hub-city with no battles and just talking and setting moments. One of the strangest things with the decision to have such linear design is that Cocoon was based on America. It was supposed to be a huge, sprawling world with a diversity of ethnicities. The concept doesn't come off very well since there are very few places they player can explore. As for the use of made up words in FFXIII, they aren't easily understood through dialogue without using the in-game encyclopedia. In FFX, you had a player avatar in Tidus who learns about the game world alongside the player. Even in FF12, Vaan and Penelo provide the same service because they have lived sheltered lives.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:02
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Zaphod42 posted:Is it just me, or like... from the very beginning I really hated the arbitrary "fal'Cie" thing and oh yeah crystals now you're an "l'Cie" ... Huh? Oh and hurry up or you'll become a "Cie'th"! Oh and we're "Pulse fal'Cie" don't confuse that with the "Coccoon fal'Cie"! Its like the direct opposite of good plot development, you're just making poo poo up. I have no idea whats going on, and nothing is interesting, it just seems overwhelmingly contrived and arbitrary. I usually love an in media res start, but it doesn't work here at all. Even after you know what it all means, it reads like the most overwrought terrible fanfiction. You're definitely not alone. I still have no idea what the differences are between them. They throw these words around every other sentence and it all sounds the same. Terrible names.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:04
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I'm sorry, but if you couldn't figure out what the difference between fal'cie, l'cie, and cie'th was after playing the game for any appreciable length of time, you weren't even trying. The way those terms are used is not some Etro's-gate-behind-the-final-boss bullshit. It was not that hard of a concept, and you don't need to know the whole etymology of the set of words to understand them. What confuses me more is people acting like everyone explaining things to Tidus is such good world building when it is straight up "The main character has amnesia so we will insult the player and tell them about the world through this device that is certainly not overused to the point of being a joke." "They lived sheltered lives" is no different. I would much rather have a game not waste time explaining things that everyone in that world should already know and the player can figure out by context. And I'll take made up words over idiotic Latin names, too. chumbler fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 00:13
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I never had an actual problem with fal'Cie or l'Cie or any of the terms in XIII. Well, apart from the fact I didn't understand them very well until I used the datalog or asked people on the internet about it. The Latin names will be very weird though simply because they sound fake and pretentious as hell. Far be it from me to defend Dirge of Cerberus, and I know Dark id and others make fun of the Tsviets for this, but I never had a problem with the names Rosso the Crimson or Nero the Sable. As long as it sounds reasonable, that's all I care about. if it actually makes sense is not a concern of mine. Weiss and Nero are the first while Ignis Stupeo Scientia is neither. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 31, 2013 00:17
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Zaphod42 posted:But Latin is the normal go-to for 'cryptic ancient language' stuff. Even Harry Potter does it. That's perfectly comfortable. I guess its just too obvious if you know Latin or even basic Latin roots though, eh?
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Dec 31, 2013 00:28
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