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Yeah, the attack chopper definitely needs increased survivability somehow. Or just scrap scout chopper repairs, then it wouldn't seem so lovely.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Most of the time I die in the attack chopper from being hit, getting rocked from the explosion, losing power, then crashing into the ground/building. And the 20 second flare timer usually means I spend most of my time hiding and giving my gunner nothing to do. If someone is brave enough to be the gunner.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:04
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Lazyfire posted:It's easy until they decide to sit deep in the spawn so you can't get a good line of sight on them. If they get out in the open they are basically living on borrowed time, but if they stay in the protected areas you may end up with one person going 30-0 in the drat things depending on how many helicopter pilots think they can take them out. Lasing them fixes that little problem. As does jihad jeep/jet/helo.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:13
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Lazyfire posted:It's easy until they decide to sit deep in the spawn so you can't get a good line of sight on them. If they get out in the open they are basically living on borrowed time, but if they stay in the protected areas you may end up with one person going 30-0 in the drat things depending on how many helicopter pilots think they can take them out. This has not been my experience at least on maps with a lot of armor. If your MAA is doing gently caress all on Zavod no big deal but on maps like Lancang Dam it can determine outcome of the game. You need helicopters and jets to keep armor off your infantry. Every time our MAA has been off farming infantry kills or camping too far back to be effective we've lost the game as IFVs and tanks swarmed the points. Yeah, C4 and rockets can kill tanks but if you have more than one or a tank with an IFV working in concert you are going to have a rough day. PittTheElder posted:Yeah, the attack chopper definitely needs increased survivability somehow. Or just scrap scout chopper repairs, then it wouldn't seem so lovely. They need to bring back the Mil Mi-24. One of the factions is Russia so it fits, right?
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Jan 9, 2014 20:13
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Helmets have been estimated to reduce the risk for head injuries by 85%
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Jan 9, 2014 20:16
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ded posted:It is easy as gently caress to kill MAA. Anyone that says it is OP is either a moron or has never fought someone with a clue. I'm not saying the MAA is hard to kill (that was just the pubbies on the other team being terrible), I'm saying maybe it should not ruin a helo's day in a matter of second from extreme ranges ? V  V
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Jan 9, 2014 20:28
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Tiger Sushi posted:I'm not saying the MAA is hard to kill (that was just the pubbies on the other team being terrible), I'm saying maybe it should not ruin a helo's day in a matter of second from extreme ranges ? V Yeah, the MAA needs to somehow be effective against both jets and helicopters, while not utterly destroying the latter. I don't see how they're going to pull that off though.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:37
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah, the MAA needs to somehow be effective against both jets and helicopters, while not utterly destroying the latter. I don't see how they're going to pull that off though. It's pretty simple, give helicopters (a working) Below Radar. Good Helis can avoid the MAA but will be more vulnerable to infantry based AA while jets will still need to contend with the MAA. You still need to fix the Scout repair rate; especially if you give them Below Radar but I think it'd be much more balanced overall. Edit: Fixed grammar error. Also, I unlocked Laser Guided Missiles for the Attack Heli. Can I SOFLAM exploit and provide my own guidance for them? OGS-Remix fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 20:41
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OGS-Remix posted:It's pretty simple, give helicopter's (a working) Below Radar. Good Helis can avoid the MAA but will be more vulnerable to infantry based AA while jets will still need to contend with the MAA. That repair rate is amazingly broken. I've done so stupid silly poo poo like playing headbutt with the ground and won. Get hit with an IGLA? No problem! Just ram the ground until you get control back! Edit: This has also taught me how to better fly the Littlebird. Just fly it like you don't give a gently caress if you hit the ground (because you don't) and you'll be amazed at what you can do.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:44
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If active radar missiles didn't cause a disable then that seems balanced to me, as far as, you know, keeping the other missiles relevant and all.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:54
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SwitchbladeKult posted:That repair rate is amazingly broken. I've done so stupid silly poo poo like playing headbutt with the ground and won. Get hit with an IGLA? No problem! Just ram the ground until you get control back! Not so much in the transports. Played a game of Obliteration where I was flying the bomb and a full helo to the bomb site. Go to land it and explode on contact with the ground.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:54
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At this point I think you can only do what that tweet from the DICE developer suggests. I imagine they can't change the repair for specifically the scout choppers. I imagine they can't introduce a new element to adjust the repair rate (repair rate is cut in half when under fire or something). So the only thing they can do realistically is change how the 25mm cannon works. The tweet says reduce the splash damage on the 25mm, I say cut the splash entirely. Damage on direct hits only and up the damage on armor slightly to compensate. That really seems to be the only way to fix the scouts against infantry. If they absolutely must keep the splash damage in, increase the damage falloff to something ridiculous so you have to drat near hit infantry directly anyways.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:59
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Does anyone else think the choppers are fine? I actually enjoy playing infantry and not getting my poo poo pushed in by skygods for once in a battlefield game.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:06
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SwitchbladeKult posted:This has not been my experience at least on maps with a lot of armor. If your MAA is doing gently caress all on Zavod no big deal but on maps like Lancang Dam it can determine outcome of the game. You need helicopters and jets to keep armor off your infantry. Every time our MAA has been off farming infantry kills or camping too far back to be effective we've lost the game as IFVs and tanks swarmed the points. Yeah, C4 and rockets can kill tanks but if you have more than one or a tank with an IFV working in concert you are going to have a rough day. Lancang was the map where another goon and I spent much of a game trying to get the other team's MAA out of the drat spawn with no luck. The guy went 12-0 in the thing by sitting as far back as possible, which put him around a hill. TV missiles from the attack boat could get to him, nor could my patented Jihad jeep of doom get deep enough before I bailed. I appreciated the fact he was keeping air vehicles from getting to armor, but these guys got pushed back to just A by about ten minutes into the round thanks to how may people we had trying to cap instead of fly, so he really helped us more.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:07
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Kibayasu posted:I imagine they can't change the repair for specifically the scout choppers. Given how slowly the attack boats repair, I'm pretty sure they can do exactly this. If for some reason they can't, give MANPADS a (relatively high) chance of killing whoever is hanging out the open doors. Smeed posted:Does anyone else think the choppers are fine? I actually enjoy playing infantry and not getting my poo poo pushed in by skygods for once in a battlefield game. I also love playing infantry, but Scouts are OP and desperately need balance attention. Attacks are probably a little too weak and could use some upgunning or survivability.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:10
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I thought I'd join a game of Op Locker to make a dent in my 50 squad revives for the Leave No Man Behind medal. http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/1/421362408175823424/178864884/ Got them all in one round 
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Jan 9, 2014 21:12
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Lazyfire posted:Lancang was the map where another goon and I spent much of a game trying to get the other team's MAA out of the drat spawn with no luck. The guy went 12-0 in the thing by sitting as far back as possible, which put him around a hill. TV missiles from the attack boat could get to him, nor could my patented Jihad jeep of doom get deep enough before I bailed. I appreciated the fact he was keeping air vehicles from getting to armor, but these guys got pushed back to just A by about ten minutes into the round thanks to how may people we had trying to cap instead of fly, so he really helped us more. They need to remove the ability to sit your vehicles in uncap. Or reduce the amount of uncap. Things like that are stupid. It can shoot at anything it wants but I can't hit it with anything because I can't get in range or get a shot at it.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:15
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Merica posted:They need to remove the ability to sit your vehicles in uncap. Or reduce the amount of uncap. Things like that are stupid. It can shoot at anything it wants but I can't hit it with anything because I can't get in range or get a shot at it. No firing in the uncap (at least with vehicles) wouldn't be a bad change either. I don't think I've seen a single spawn trap-and-camp in BF4 yet. And I really hate having a mobile arty just sit in the spawn all day.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:20
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Smeed posted:Does anyone else think the choppers are fine? I actually enjoy playing infantry and not getting my poo poo pushed in by skygods for once in a battlefield game. It is easy enough to hide from Helicopters until I can get to where I can make a shot or call in for support. I dont think they are over powered even with the 25mm splash. In fact I wish they would make the mini guns more accurate on transports, etc. Both teams have the same equipment that is all the balance you need.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:23
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JEEVES420 posted:In fact I wish they would make the mini guns more accurate on transports, etc. I don't have a problem with the accuracy of the mini-guns on transports, just with the fact that they apparently shoot out marshmallows and you can riddle somebody with bullets without them dying
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Jan 9, 2014 21:25
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I really do love the way DICE goes about balancing vehicles. People complain that the Scout helicopter is an invincible flying tank, so DICE decides to transition its role into an invincible flying anti-tank tank? People complain that the AH is a flying coffin? Well, let's make that flying coffin do slightly more damage in the 35 seconds its in the air!
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Jan 9, 2014 21:27
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JEEVES420 posted:It is easy enough to hide from Helicopters until I can get to where I can make a shot or call in for support. I dont think they are over powered even with the 25mm splash. In fact I wish they would make the mini guns more accurate on transports, etc. So I've been using the minigun on my litte bird because that's what all the skygods kill me with. Am I actually doing it wrong? Also, can someone explain the pros and cons of flares vs ECM? Edit: Leb posted:People complain that the AH is a flying coffin? Well, let's make that flying coffin do slightly more damage in the 35 seconds its in the air! Want to be my gunner? Get in 
SwitchbladeKult fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:28
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PittTheElder posted:No firing in the uncap (at least with vehicles) wouldn't be a bad change either. I don't think I've seen a single spawn trap-and-camp in BF4 yet. This seems like a great idea except the AA's will just sit right on the edge of uncap and roll back into it once they take 21 dmg. They need to make it so that once you drive out of uncap, driving back into it is the same as out of bounds.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:36
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Add another CM to the attack chopper, problem solved. Right now it's maneuverability is garbage but you can essentialy sit 1000m and launch rockets at poo poo, that and a gunner are pretty good at taking out infantry and light vehicles.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:49
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Tiger Sushi posted:I'm not saying the MAA is hard to kill (that was just the pubbies on the other team being terrible), I'm saying maybe it should not ruin a helo's day in a matter of second from extreme ranges ? V I'm really sorry your helo got blown up 
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Jan 9, 2014 22:00
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Riller posted:I'm really sorry your helo got blown up If the MAA is hanging in the uncap normally it's easy to fly a helicopter around 1/2 the map and sometimes you can dart across into it's FOV and nab a tank kill in the AH or violate some roof wookies in the LB before it can murder you. When it's roaming you are just hosed until someone blows it up. At that point you are relying on pubbies and that's always going to result in a bad time. Like Leb was hinting at,  doesn’t even understand the problems with the balance so anything they do to fix the balance is going to be meaningless or make things worse so I’m not even sure what we are discussing at this point.I think I’m going to stop using my ugly  gun. The tiny magazine is frustrating. Should I start using the ugly  AEK instead? I love me some high ROF.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:37
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OGS-Remix posted:It's pretty simple, give helicopters (a working) Below Radar. Good Helis can avoid the MAA but will be more vulnerable to infantry based AA while jets will still need to contend with the MAA. It makes you wonder if Dice devs actually play their own game (they don't) or listen to any parts of their community (they don't). People were telling them helicopters need more survivability for months now, and they come back with a couple of insignificant changes to things literally no one thought was a good idea or asked for. No mention of below radar to balance out all the lock-on spam versus helicopters, and no mention of a repair speed nerf in the Scout. Those were like the two main points most people championed for air balance. Instead they talk about a 25mm splash nerf (I didn't realize people were even crying about this) and an AH gun buff. Oh, and the MAA now has 4 Active Radar missiles instead of 6 that they can effortless spam for easy kills from spawn, with no changes to the missiles at themselves (I guess they don't care to change the damage values for the missiles since they are still going to flip all helicopters over anyways).
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Jan 9, 2014 22:42
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Riller posted:I'm really sorry your helo got blown up Heh, nice one but if you had read the discussion instead of brainlessly copypasting catchphrases you'd know I wasn't on the receiving end of the MAA murderfest.  Anyway, forcing vehicles out of the uncap before they can shoot would be a sensible change and I hope they implement it.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:50
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I stand by my assertion that active radar missiles across the board should not disable their targets in order to keep them balanced against their supposed side-grade missiles. Heatseekers: Pro - Fire and forget, Con - Easily countermeasured Passive Radar: Pro - Faster lockon, able to reaquire target, Con - Forced to maintain lock Active Radar: Pro - Most difficult if not impossible to countermeasure, Con - No disable
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Jan 9, 2014 23:01
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Snazzy Frocks posted:I stand by my assertion that active radar missiles across the board should not disable their targets in order to keep them balanced against their supposed side-grade missiles. This seems like a good change to me. How much damage do they do right now anyways, 25? 20?
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Jan 9, 2014 23:03
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Snazzy Frocks posted:I stand by my assertion that active radar missiles across the board should not disable their targets in order to keep them balanced against their supposed side-grade missiles. That is reasonable, also limit the range of the ARMs since they are the main tool for base camping MAA babies at the moment, fire and forget while the missile tracks anything for 1000m, enjoyed from the safety of your uncap and auto-aa. edit: also Demize never mentions fixing the staff shell either, hilarious Someguy fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 23:04
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Sniper rifle question: If you make, say, a 1000m headshot and get that big pile of points, does that marksman bonus count towards your sniper rifle progression? seems like you could get 4 people in a golmud server or something and just spend a couple of hours trading shots while spawning on beacons to grind out your unlocks.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:05
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Someguy posted:That is reasonable, also limit the range of the ARMs since they are the main tool for base camping MAA babies at the moment, fire and forget while the missile tracks anything for 1000m, enjoyed from the safety of your uncap and auto-aa. I'm really sorry you were shot down
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Jan 9, 2014 23:14
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'm really sorry you were shot down Is this how we're gonna be posting in this thread now? Someguy posted:edit: also Demize never mentions fixing the staff shell either, hilarious I've never used the staff shell myself, because with the engineer population of this game, I need anti inf- and I'm pretty sure I've only had it used against me a less than half a dozen times. What kind of fix does it need? Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 23:20
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I'm really sorry you were shot down I'm sorry you have nothing to contribute :| Bohemian Nights posted:I've never used the staff shell myself, and I'm pretty sure I've only had it used against me a less than half a dozen times. What kind of fix does it need? edit: I'm like number 3 on the BFgoons stats site for MAA behind Lebbers, Chronojam and for the TYPE 95, Naturally Selected Someguy fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 23:23
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Target Practice posted:Sniper rifle question: If you make, say, a 1000m headshot and get that big pile of points, does that marksman bonus count towards your sniper rifle progression? seems like you could get 4 people in a golmud server or something and just spend a couple of hours trading shots while spawning on beacons to grind out your unlocks. It does apply to weapon XP, and yes, you can boost to unlock almost anything in the game. Or you can play the game.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:24
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The equipment is not really unbalanced the people using them are. An unfortunate side effect of playing with random people who dont know how to work together.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:26
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Toadsniff posted:Add another CM to the attack chopper, problem solved. Right now it's maneuverability is garbage but you can essentialy sit 1000m and launch rockets at poo poo, that and a gunner are pretty good at taking out infantry and light vehicles. Attack helis get their killing power increased without too much of a bonus to surviveability against anything but MAAs, scout helis lose a fair bit of toughness, and MAAs get active radar nerfs and not much else. Air would be better after a proposed patch, but only by a small amount, and not in the Little Bird's favor.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:30
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Target Practice posted:Sniper rifle question: If you make, say, a 1000m headshot and get that big pile of points, does that marksman bonus count towards your sniper rifle progression? seems like you could get 4 people in a golmud server or something and just spend a couple of hours trading shots while spawning on beacons to grind out your unlocks. As far as I know it does.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:43
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Below Radar buff would be an awesome addition, seeing as the most enjoyment I currently get from the game is flying helis a few feet above the ground, and it'd be great to have that count for more than just feeling like a badass. In BF3 it didn't apply to engineer launchers but gently caress it since 80% of the time I'm being locked on by other aircraft that have tunnel vision when it comes to other people in the sky, and the angle of attack to make weaving behind anything lower than 20 feet pointless. Can't all pilots just agree that strafing and dodging flightless Untermensch is way more enjoyable than Air Superiority and leave each other alone.  Also has anyone else been getting one shot by tanks a lot recently? Usually hesitant to play the hax card but I got hit from across the map like 10 times the other night. One guy in particular was around F on Golmud and was hitting me right out of spawn.
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Jan 10, 2014 00:03
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