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Hi friends. Is this game going to be a good game?
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Jan 18, 2014 22:27
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I'm glad you asked, folgore.
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Jan 18, 2014 23:50
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Doh004 posted:It is because you're not tapping F repeatidly the entire time. The breakout of rapdily tapping F doesn't happen THAT frequently and people are making it out to be the worst thing in the world. It's still less fun than not actually tapping F. I want to be able to watch the battlefield and see what's going on and plan my next move. It adds nothing to the game but an annoyance. I'd rather stuns lose duration from damage taken or basically any other mechanic that isn't button mashing, even if it is yelling in to a microphone.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:05
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folgore posted:Hi friends. Is this game going to be a good game? It might be. It's entertaining, for sure.
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Jan 19, 2014 00:39
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So if there are any goons in the game, they should contact player Unicoroner to get the goon guild together.
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Jan 19, 2014 02:27
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Stanley Pain posted:I'm going to assume people that complain about stuns in PVP are just bad at PVP and situational awareness. I man they're not even THAT bad in this game compared to other MMOs. 30 second incaps, chainable stuns and CCs with ZERO diminishing returns, etc. Those are things to complain about. You say that, but 5 second hammer of gank stuns were a pain in the rear end, too. 5 seconds is an eternity in games like this, so brushing aside a stun of even a few seconds as "you just suck at the game" is kind of missing the entire point of the thought exercise. You can't point to the massacres in (insert third world country here) and say "well, so it's not THAT bad that a school got shot up and 3 kids died." Yeah, I brought out the nuclear example. Doesn't mean it's not right. 
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Jan 19, 2014 03:02
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Bauxite posted:You say that, but 5 second hammer of gank stuns were a pain in the rear end, too. 5 seconds is an eternity in games like this, so brushing aside a stun of even a few seconds as "you just suck at the game" is kind of missing the entire point of the thought exercise. You can't point to the massacres in (insert third world country here) and say "well, so it's not THAT bad that a school got shot up and 3 kids died." This doesn't change that. It makes stuns shorter while being annoying. You could just make stuns shorter on players. If you died during a 5 second stun in wow you were losing the fight anyway.
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Jan 19, 2014 03:26
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Bashez posted:This doesn't change that. It makes stuns shorter while being annoying. You could just make stuns shorter on players. Who said anything about dying? I just said they sucked, and you'll also note I'm agreeing that stuns are just flat out annoying no matter how long they are. It's not just 30 second stun locks and chain CC that's annoying. Although to be fair, a 5 second stun in 3v3 arena could very well cost you the fight.
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Jan 19, 2014 04:03
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Bashez posted:It's still less fun than not actually tapping F. I want to be able to watch the battlefield and see what's going on and plan my next move. It adds nothing to the game but an annoyance. I'd rather stuns lose duration from damage taken or basically any other mechanic that isn't button mashing, even if it is yelling in to a microphone. And I think it's more fun. Maybe it's because I'm capable of multitasking and watching the battlefield as well as hitting f several times to break out of the CC faster than I would normally. You know it's not required to get out of it, right?
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Jan 19, 2014 06:30
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BuhamutZeo posted:While 1 is true, when I responded to actively breaking out of CC I meant like finding your weapon after a disarm, becoming blinded and trying to survive, and your controls getting reversed. Stun too needs a way to be broken out of the most since it takes away the most control (all of it). The problem is, once stunned there is no more interaction with the environment. Maybe a reaction based timed event? Type a word made out of WASD? I sitll like the alternating A and D approach. Fair enough; my reply was specifically about stun breaking. I do think the disarm approach is pretty clever.
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Jan 19, 2014 06:38
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Doh004 posted:And I think it's more fun. Maybe it's because I'm capable of multitasking and watching the battlefield as well as hitting f several times to break out of the CC faster than I would normally. You know it's not required to get out of it, right? Stun durations are balanced (as much as anything in a beta is balanced) with the keymashing mechanic in mind. If the mechanic wasn't implemented base stun durations would be shorter, and you wouldn't have to mash F to get the correct stun duration. The mechanic is effectively a QTE with a punishment of extra stun duration for failure.
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Jan 19, 2014 07:13
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GlazedMcGuffin posted:So if there are any goons in the game, they should contact player Unicoroner to get the goon guild together. Exile or Dominion is relevant to this.
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Jan 19, 2014 09:11
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Oh, right. I can only speak for the Exile side.
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Jan 19, 2014 10:40
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Bauxite posted:Who said anything about dying? I just said they sucked, and you'll also note I'm agreeing that stuns are just flat out annoying no matter how long they are. It's not just 30 second stun locks and chain CC that's annoying. "Gank stun" implies to me you died in the stun. And yeah, you lost to a 5 second stun in a 3v3 arena if you misplayed and left yourself exposed and were unable to counter with control of your own. Doh004 posted:And I think it's more fun. Maybe it's because I'm capable of multitasking and watching the battlefield as well as hitting f several times to break out of the CC faster than I would normally. You know it's not required to get out of it, right? Why not have a captcha? Mashing a single button is not a fun mechanic in any way shape or form. There are a myriad of interactive ways to attempt to deactivate a stun. This floors me that you think this is a good mechanic. There's a base misconception here that I don't think you understand. Everyone mashes the button, it's assumed you mashed the button for normal duration. If you don't mash the button you get super long stuns. Every other control mechanic has some form of skill/gameplay to it. If you get disarmed you can focus on dodging attacks (probably better if all your dps abilities are on cooldown). Tether gives you a choice on if you should deal with the tether or ignore it and then inside the tether if you can kite or not. Knockdowns punish excessive roll usage and obviously will consume one to get out of. Blind obviously screws with your aiming and you can go ahead anyway or wait a bit, meanwhile you're open to attacks you will have trouble seeing. All of these mechanics introduce interesting and meaningful gameplay decisions. The stun mechanic does not. It's either be stunned for the normal duration by mashing a single button, or be stunned for a long time. The fact that you would say it's not required to get out of it means you fundamentally do not understand the gaming concepts behind control mechanics. It's required in the same sense that eating is required. You don't have to, but you probably should.
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Jan 19, 2014 11:21
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Evil_Greven posted:In case ya'll forgot (or didn't know) about - it's Stalker Livestream today. In oh, about three minutes from now. I can't help but feel a bit disappointed watching it this week. The Stalker itself seemed almost shamelessly glossed over for the whole "Frost vs. Pappy" bit and we didn't really learn much about them other then "They can tank things with an interminable degree of success" and "They appear to do batshit insane amounts of burst damage" (though that was more from the PvP event then the actual Stalker feature). After the Stalkers took a backseat to both the Engineer and Medic then again for the new year's break, I got to admit, Stalker fans probably should feel a little cheated. As for the PvP event itself, well I am sure it looked fun on paper but since we didn't get any information on what skills/amps/whatever were being used, there wasn't a whole lot to take from it other then a few tidbits of information about the Arena system. I am sure the gents (and lady) involved in the whole production are fine and upstanding people but the whole thing didn't really seem as interesting as I suspect they thought it might be, at least IMO. Also a shame we won't be getting another stream for an entire month. It does seem a bit odd a game supposedly this close to launch is going backwards on the hype/information, not ramping up.
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Jan 19, 2014 14:37
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Bauxite posted:You say that, but 5 second hammer of gank stuns were a pain in the rear end, too. 5 seconds is an eternity in games like this, so brushing aside a stun of even a few seconds as "you just suck at the game" is kind of missing the entire point of the thought exercise. You can't point to the massacres in (insert third world country here) and say "well, so it's not THAT bad that a school got shot up and 3 kids died." All of that sums up to situational awareness, or getting out played. In any case we'll agree to disagree.
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Jan 19, 2014 14:48
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Bashez posted:Why not have a captcha? Mashing a single button is not a fun mechanic in any way shape or form. There are a myriad of interactive ways to attempt to deactivate a stun. A captcha? Really? As in type in a random string? You think that's better and fun? Also you most definitely don't have to do it. Don't tell me I don't understand how something fundamentally works. I don't think you realize that the repeated tapping of the F key a different experience for each person. How long does it take them to realize they're stunned? How long does it take the user to hit the key enough times to get out of it? Once they do, do they know which way to go to get out of the telegraph? All of these things vary in each situation. The "normal" duration is if you don't get to get out of cc. Just curious, but how much of this beta have you been playing?
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Jan 19, 2014 15:16
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Doh004 posted:A captcha? Really? As in type in a random string? You think that's better and fun? Your sarcasm detector is broken. Also, mashing one button is a terrible, terrible mechanic and I can't believe people actually LIKE that. 
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Jan 19, 2014 16:02
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Doh004 posted:All of these things vary in each situation. The "normal" duration is if you don't get to get out of cc. The normal duration is what the game is balanced around. If the designers don't balance around people playing competently they are bad designers. (They are already lazy designers for putting in a keymashing mechanic where other forms of cc have interesting elements to them.)
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Jan 19, 2014 16:14
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I'm guessing most decent players will just use a keyboard macro or autohotkey script to mash keys whenever they get stunned.
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Jan 19, 2014 16:35
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They should make it a dance dance revolution style series of arrow keys
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Jan 19, 2014 16:43
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Dropbear posted:Your sarcasm detector is broken. Also, mashing one button is a terrible, terrible mechanic and I can't believe people actually LIKE that. You can never tell with him. pun pundit posted:The normal duration is what the game is balanced around. If the designers don't balance around people playing competently they are bad designers. (They are already lazy designers for putting in a keymashing mechanic where other forms of cc have interesting elements to them.) I'll give you that but with a side note: a normal duration is going to be an average, right? As in, it'll take people a longer or shorter amount of time to do it. So yes, they will expect people to break out of CC faster than not hitting the button at all but it is possible to do it "better" than others. Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is a great mechanic. I believe people are blowing it way out of proportion by declaring it to be the worst. Through my play time, I don't run into it THAT often and even when I do it's not any more annoying than any other CC.
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Jan 19, 2014 16:48
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Requested_Username posted:They should make it a dance dance revolution style series of arrow keys I've been expecting them to change it to that since I first heard about it. I'm pretty sure I remember somewhere a dev said that the stun "mash F" is the least interesting/fun mechanic. Randomizing it a bit would make it harder to macro, and would make it a bit more interesting. I mean, you could even have a PVP amp ability that makes your stun's "breakout combo chain" longer or something.
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Jan 19, 2014 17:16
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Doh004 posted:A captcha? Really? As in type in a random string? You think that's better and fun? Sorry, I forgot F was the most fun letter.
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Jan 19, 2014 17:57
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Requested_Username posted:They should make it a dance dance revolution style series of arrow keys Isn't that how Age of Conan worked?
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Jan 19, 2014 18:31
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Requested_Username posted:They should make it a dance dance revolution style series of arrow keys This minigame actually already exists in the world so they have the tech for it ready to go. 
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Jan 19, 2014 18:41
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Doh004 posted:Also you most definitely don't have to do it. Yes you do. A regular mob knocked half of my health off in one big charge up attack because I didn't mash F to get out of it. Mashing F is a requirement of stuns, which is why it's a poo poo mechanic. Stanley Pain posted:All of that sums up to situational awareness, or getting out played. In any case we'll agree to disagree. This is equivalent to saying "You just suck, get wrekt nerd." but at least you're being nice about it.
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Jan 19, 2014 19:14
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Bauxite posted:Yes you do. A regular mob knocked half of my health off in one big charge up attack because I didn't mash F to get out of it. Mashing F is a requirement of stuns, which is why it's a poo poo mechanic. Generally, when I run into an enemy like this, I make a note to use my own control on it first and use some of my cooldowns on subsequent fights with them. Enemies like that break up the routine while questing, which is good. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 19:34
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The problem with those mobs isn't the breakout mechanic, its the lack of telegraph for the stun - which is always immediately followed by a high damage telegraph. The flaw is the fact that you can't avoid the stun in the first place
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Jan 19, 2014 20:27
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Today's thread was brought to you by the letter F. They really should make that stun avoidable with some kind of telegraph. Mashing F while watching a mob tear my face off isn't exactly the best incarnation of fun I've experienced. Although, that really is one of the few complaints I've had so far. Carbine's done a drat fine job otherwise.
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Jan 19, 2014 20:33
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Deceptive Thinker posted:The problem with those mobs isn't the breakout mechanic, its the lack of telegraph for the stun - which is always immediately followed by a high damage telegraph. Except for locking them down before they use it and blowing them up more vigorously than you do with other quest mobs. I mean, it works for me-- if I know a mob stuns without a telegraph, I use my CC and throw everything short of my big 2-minute CD onto him. Tends to work out fine.
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Jan 19, 2014 21:41
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Regarding these stuns is anyone realistically going to actually mash the key instead of using a rapid software macro?Magical Zero posted:I'm guessing most decent players will just use a keyboard macro or autohotkey script to mash keys whenever they get stunned. e;fb Bauxite posted:This is equivalent to saying "You just suck, get wrekt nerd." but at least you're being nice about it. Every time anyone defends idiotic cheap poorly implemented game mechanics they're usually taking advantage of on a regular basis inevitably their argument is summed up by that idiotic meme that seems to be rising in popularity called "git gud". Stanley Pain posted:All of that sums up to situational awareness, or getting out played. In any case we'll agree to disagree. "You weren't situationally aware enough to avoid someone pressing 1 button to stun you for X seconds." This game's discussion reminds me of the WoW forums during Burning Crusade. But hey that's exactly the target market of the WS devs so what else should we expect? puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 21:51
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Extra posted:
I'm not defending anything really. Stuns and CC in general are an integral part of PVP and hearkens back to the PKILL days of MUDS. I don't mean to imply that someone should "get good", I'll outright state that they should  There are always ways to mitigate getting caught with your pants down.We'll see how the mash button to break out will work. Personally, I think it's a silly mechanic but serves its purpose.
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Jan 19, 2014 22:57
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Stanley Pain posted:Personally, I think it's a silly mechanic but serves its purpose. I think lazy is what others are trying to get across, not silly. When you get really neat and somewhat dynamic mechanics tied to ALL the other forms of CC, smash F to win looks pretty loving dialed in. Much like character designs. Males get varied and expressive skeletons and models. Female characters get to pick what skin their
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Jan 19, 2014 23:17
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Brackhar posted:Fair enough; my reply was specifically about stun breaking. I do think the disarm approach is pretty clever. I HAVE IT! When stunned, your character's movement is snared and you wobble around and so does your cone of fire, and I mean WILDLY. I mean so much that if you get any hits at all, it's almost a drat miracle or a bottomless chasm of skill and timing. Yeah, you're out of control but you never lose control.  NPCs can have the normal stun crap or that would just lead to massive CC problems.
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Jan 19, 2014 23:54
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What is the hotkey to bring up the mount menu? I got the hoverboard in the mail and put it on my bar and clicked it and it does nothing.
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Jan 19, 2014 23:59
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BuhamutZeo posted:I HAVE IT! I have always said - I'd rather be 90% slowed than stunned. 100% loss of character, no matter how you dress it up, is poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2014 00:21
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BuhamutZeo posted:I HAVE IT! This could work well, you could also blur the hell out of the screen by causing it to rapidly zoom in and out so you can't really concentrate
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Jan 20, 2014 00:48
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I hate stuns too but if youre going to make me throw up instead ill just take the 3s timeout thanks. I would rather mash the button and feel like I am at least doing something to combat it. Being out of control for a fixed amount of time would be worse for me, personally.
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Jan 20, 2014 01:00
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Perpetual Notion posted:This could work well, you could also blur the hell out of the screen by causing it to rapidly zoom in and out so you can't really concentrate That seems like a motion sickness concern, and a problem for people with vertigo or epilepsy. They probably don't want players throwing up whenever they get stunned.
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Jan 20, 2014 01:21
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