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quote:On the topic of changing unit strengths to reflect loss of health, I'm only against it because its not a thing AOW had before. Am i being old and grumpy and basically yelling at you punk kids for wanting new and terrifying things? Nah. I think it's a workable mechanic but I'm not a huge fan of it being shoehorned into everything just because. In particular it makes ranged attacks/magic/aoe effects extremely powerful which bends balance in a direction I don't prefer in my magic and explosions everywhere fantasy small-unit tactics game. Mind you, I give absolute zero fucks about anyone's precious immersion, so there's that. On topic, I have to agree the Draconian models looks like they could use a bit of work. Less squished looking faces, and wings that don't look quite as much like sad vestigal stubs. I'd prefer tails too but I have a feeling that's not happening. madmac fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jan 25, 2014 |
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Jan 25, 2014 18:13
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Shadowmorn posted:On the topic of changing unit strengths to reflect loss of health, I'm only against it because its not a thing AOW had before. Am i being old and grumpy and basically yelling at you punk kids for wanting new and terrifying things? Nah. Civ V proved to me that diminishing strength usually makes ranged units a lot more powerful than they ought to be, and by extension makes the human player a lot stronger than the AI because a human is a lot better at kiting.
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Jan 25, 2014 18:46
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Demiurge4 posted:You misunderstand. Each model in a unit would have it's own stat pool. Damage taken would be spread out at random and the number of attacks is in line with how many characters are in the unit. No, you misunderstand. That was never the system under consideration: Gerblyn posted:It would also involve a huge rewrite of a lot of systems, including parts of the AI and the combat interfaces. It's a nice idea, but beyond the scope of what we're really able to do I'm afraid. (This is in reference to exactly what you're referring to)
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Jan 25, 2014 19:02
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Shadowmorn posted:The demons, after Phobious's empire crumbles, retreat into their former world where the Syron's come from. You press the attack alongside your allies and finally break them for good. The Syrons stay to retake their homes and rebuild, slowly cutting off access to the shadow realm and returning the world back to normality. Merlin however, tired from the wars and disillusioned at it all, walks away from any leadership to find peace hoping the world forgets the old magics, him and old ways. Okay, thanks. So why does everyone apparently hate Merlin now? I read something about him removing all the wizards from the world permanently, and that Julia ordered his execution.
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Jan 25, 2014 20:52
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Has it really been 11 years? Goddamn. I'm so excited it hurts. Also lol at Notch being the guy that is funding this. I guess when you have millions to burn you night as well make games you like happen. Like playing kick starter on god mode.
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Jan 25, 2014 21:06
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Talorat posted:Has it really been 11 years? Goddamn. I'm so excited it hurts. Notch is pretty cool  I hope this turns out successful, I'm just waiting for it to pop up on Steam at this point.
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Jan 25, 2014 21:08
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Taliesyn posted:Okay, thanks. So why does everyone apparently hate Merlin now? I read something about him removing all the wizards from the world permanently, and that Julia ordered his execution. http://www.ageofwonders.com/dev-journal-what-happened-after-shadow-magic-story-part-ii/ quote:[Ray:] In order to seal off this world from the Shadow World, Merlin had to destroy the Wizard’s Circle in Evermore. In that moment, all wizards in this world lost their powers. It was quite tragic, and an affront to the elves and archons; the reason Merlin became so hated. quote:[Ray:] Right. So the Commonwealth was formed when many of the wizards and heroes were either eliminated or passed into the Shadow Realm to hunt the evils that lurked therein. You remember from Shadow Magic, that the Syron were the slave race of the Shadow Demons and their world was one of many that had been consumed by these demons. Well, the prospect of discovering whole worlds was a huge draw to many of the most powerful wizards. The rest of it is good stuff, but i felt these were most noteworthy. As for Notch, i'd do what he did in a heartbeat. Got a few spare millions lying around? Hell yes we'd get a sequel or modern remake of Strife: Quest for the Sigil.  Edit: While we discuss lore, i feel its worth pointing out Taerkar's currently well written letsplay of AOW 1, which is now leading into AOW 2. It should make for good reading while we wait for AOW 3, and if anything else, will help answer questions regarding our tricky little wizard's life before he became an outcast for ruining everything Wizard for everyone forever. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3539534&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Thyrork fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 02:26
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Ahh, thanks.
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Jan 26, 2014 05:49
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I couldn't find a general AoW thread, so I'm just going to ask this here: Does anyone know of a decent strategy for Shadow Magic's final level?
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Jan 26, 2014 10:39
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Cheat outrageously. 
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Jan 26, 2014 14:07
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Shadowmorn posted:Cheat outrageously. 
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Jan 26, 2014 14:20
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Something I just realised, in the old games magical research carried over between maps which meant you were encouraged to finish researching before you ended the level, effectively making the player stall. This was rather awful so I'm wondering how this is implemented in the new campaign?
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Jan 26, 2014 14:26
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Demiurge4 posted:Something I just realised, in the old games magical research carried over between maps which meant you were encouraged to finish researching before you ended the level, effectively making the player stall. This was rather awful so I'm wondering how this is implemented in the new campaign?
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Jan 26, 2014 14:28
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Demiurge4 posted:Something I just realised, in the old games magical research carried over between maps which meant you were encouraged to finish researching before you ended the level, effectively making the player stall. This was rather awful so I'm wondering how this is implemented in the new campaign? Warzone 2100 does that, but the entire game is on a time limit, so while it's helpful to spend any spare time you have researching, it does have a limit, and you can speed up the game to make it go a bit faster.
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Jan 26, 2014 14:57
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Raygereio posted:I couldn't find a general AoW thread, so I'm just going to ask this here: Does anyone know of a decent strategy for Shadow Magic's final level? If you're having difficulty holding out against the throngs of lords that are being thrown at you, there is a hidden Tigran City in a cave over near where Ke-nan died. Take it as soon as you can, then expand your horizons from there. In the bottom right section of the underground, there's also a goblin/orc (I forget which, I think Orc) city where your heroes can hold out for a decent amount of time whilst you focus on your expansion. Remember to enchant every unit you get, and keep an eye on the points where shadow demons can teleport in on the map. e: Man, I remember the first time playing that mission. Being all like "Hey we have Simon, O'neron, Ke-nan, Meandor, and Julia! We got this mission in the bag!" Then like, 10 turns later half of them get defeated and i'm panicking like a motherfucker. double e: Also I think if you get defeated, your research will carry over to the next time you attempt the mission. I'm not 100% on that, though. Arrrthritis fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 15:40
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I somehow have been living in a cave and didn't know this was being made. Shadow magic is one of my all time favorite pc games, and I'm glad to see they're making #3.
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Jan 26, 2014 19:59
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Raygereio posted:I couldn't find a general AoW thread, so I'm just going to ask this here: Does anyone know of a decent strategy for Shadow Magic's final level? I just held on by a thread until I could train and outfit several heroes that could tank and destroy entire armies on their own using lifesteal, double strike, tons of enchants and huge defense as a start. This was basically the way I beat most levels. Use stacks of priests on defense and crazy heroes on offense.
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Jan 27, 2014 00:39
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Raygereio posted:I couldn't find a general AoW thread, so I'm just going to ask this here: Does anyone know of a decent strategy for Shadow Magic's final level? It has been a long while, but I remember holding my main city with an army of Runemasters and Cannons while my heroes and knights went and did the objectives. Once you get to the Shadow Realm the mission is basically won.
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Jan 27, 2014 00:55
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Merlin's mix of all 6 spell schools basically means he gets only level 1 spells which are rubbish later on. I recommend going 100% Air magic. Haste and Wind Walking counteract your dwarves' mobility weaknesses, it has lots of lightning spells which are shadow demons' weakness, Static Shield which is arguably the best buff in the game, and later on you get Watcher and Haste Domain to make sure nobody can ever sneak up on you. Also if you are an Air Specialist then building a Hall of Enchantment gives all your troops free static shield buffs when defending the city. Good city types to try to keep access to are Dwarves for Runemasters and Cannons to hold a murderous defense, and Draconians for shadow sickness immune troops, especially Red Dragons. You can probably mix in other types but sticking with these two means your troops will never get mad at each other and they are plenty to beat the level with on their own. Dwarves' Stone Menders make their cities awesome to defend.
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Jan 27, 2014 01:49
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AngryBooch posted:lifesteal, double strike Mzbundifund posted:dwarves' mobility weaknesses Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jan 27, 2014 |
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Jan 27, 2014 13:35
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The Dwarven mobility weakness in Shadow Magic was countered by the Steam Tank.
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Jan 27, 2014 13:49
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If you can manage a hasted human air galley full of rune masters and cannons I'm pretty sure the All-Devourer bursts into tears.
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Jan 27, 2014 15:45
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Taerkar posted:The Dwarven mobility weakness in Shadow Magic was countered by the Steam Tank.
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Jan 27, 2014 16:37
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I really like slow but beefy units so hopefully, AoW3 keeps some big mobility differences between factions. This might be an odd question but do the previous games let you build like, little forts or something? Basically one issue I take with HoMM is that you really can't protect your borders very well because everything is per-tile on the big map. You can run right past someone and they can't do anything if they aren't standing on a one tile chokepoint. How does AoW handle that?
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Jan 28, 2014 01:10
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OwlFancier posted:I really like slow but beefy units so hopefully, AoW3 keeps some big mobility differences between factions. In AoW3, builder units can build forts to cheaply claim an area and its resources. The fort acts like a sort of half city, it claims an area like a city does, but has no production or growth. You can then send a settler to the fort and plant a city on it, and it becomes a city with walls. I'm afraid that AoW3 doesn't do much to fix what you're talking about though, enemies can move over your borders and the only way to stop them is to intercept them or block off choke points. There's a thing called the "Adjacent Hexagon Rule" which means that you can have 2 stacks next to each other, and you can't attack one without also attacking the other, so in principle you can block off wider choke points. There are also spells you can cast which penalize enemies that move into your territory, I believe we have a spell which damages an enemy stack for each turn they stay in your domain for example. I don't really have a handle on how the older games deal with it really, though I know you can use the adjacent hex rule to block off wider chokepoints.
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Jan 28, 2014 10:33
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Gerblyn posted:In AoW3, builder units can build forts to cheaply claim an area and its resources. The fort acts like a sort of half city, it claims an area like a city does, but has no production or growth. You can then send a settler to the fort and plant a city on it, and it becomes a city with walls. Did you consider zones of control for the strategic map at any point during development? I know you've countered mine sniping somewhat by linking them with cities and it's a decent way to handle it. But are chokepoints or open maps a philosophy when designing your maps?
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Jan 28, 2014 10:42
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Demiurge4 posted:Did you consider zones of control for the strategic map at any point during development? I know you've countered mine sniping somewhat by linking them with cities and it's a decent way to handle it. But are chokepoints or open maps a philosophy when designing your maps? I'm not entirely sure what you mean by zones of control? We've tried to remove the sniping from previous games by saying that the only things worth sniping are forts and cities, since capturing those gives you control over everything within their domain. You can move onto an enemy's mine or farm or whatever, but that only denies the enemy that structure's income while you sit on it, as soon as you leave ownership goes back to whoever owns the local fort/city. At one point we had it so you could raze mines and things, but it was too easy for an attacker to wander about razing everything they saw, while the defender has to run everywhere with a builder rebuilding things. Edit: Just asked, Lead Level Designer favours open maps, the Creative Director favours chokepoints. I guess you're gonna get both! Gerblyn fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 10:50
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Gerblyn posted:I'm not entirely sure what you mean by zones of control? A unit projects a zone of control to all tiles adjacent to it. When an enemy unit moves into the zone it uses all its movement points to move inside the zone. It can still move out of the zone for 1 point but if it moves inside the zone it uses all its points on one move. All the Civilization games uses it. It's a great way to block units and excert battle lines, and prevents a fast enemy army from bypassing your lines entirely, by forcing them to spend at least one turn adjacent to your army so you can react to it. Edit: Cool! So the only way to distrupt an enemy economy now is to take his forts and cities?
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Jan 28, 2014 10:56
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Demiurge4 posted:Edit: Cool! So the only way to distrupt an enemy economy now is to take his forts and cities? That's the easiest way. You can also cast spells on their city's for various effects, like to try and reduce the cities happiness so it becomes less productive. You can park units directly next to a city, and that reduces the city's income by 1/6th for each of the 6 surrounding hexes you occupy. We don't have a "Can't move past enemy stack" system though, I don't think anyone even considered one and it's pretty late in the project to try and add it now. Gerblyn fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 11:18
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Gerblyn posted:That's the easiest way. You can also cast spells on their cities for various effects, like to try and reduce the cities happiness so it becomes less productive. You can park units directly next to a city, and that reduces the city's income by 1/6th for each of the 6 surrounding hexes you occupy. What if I park an archer on top of a mine? Will that block it? What about parking armies on roads? I seem to recall some info about that from your earliest gameplay videos. Gerblyn posted:We don't have a "Can't move past enemy stack" system though, I don't think anyone even considered one and it's pretty late in the project to try and add it now. That's too bad and a little disappointing because that's always been my main gripe with these sorts of games, having to chase AI armies across your own lands because you can't force a fight. But I can still use the adjacent army system to block 3 tile areas I suppose, by parking a unit to either side of my main army so it's not really a huge issue. I trust you guys have a system you're happy with and that works.
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Jan 28, 2014 11:25
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Demiurge4 posted:What if I park an archer on top of a mine? Will that block it? Gerblyn posted:You can move onto an enemy's mine or farm or whatever, but that only denies the enemy that structure's income while you sit on it, as soon as you leave ownership goes back to whoever owns the local fort/city.
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Jan 28, 2014 11:29
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Gerblyn posted:In AoW3, builder units can build forts to cheaply claim an area and its resources. The fort acts like a sort of half city, it claims an area like a city does, but has no production or growth. You can then send a settler to the fort and plant a city on it, and it becomes a city with walls. Actually that sounds like a big improvement, if stuff is tied to forts and cities you can defend those in order to control the area without having to field dozens of heroes. Also being able to sit on a few hexes at once is also a big improvement. It's the ability to run behind the border and snipe everything that annoys me about heroes of might and magic so hopefully with some choke pointing and fort placement it'll be possible to maintain some degree of control.
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Jan 28, 2014 12:32
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OwlFancier posted:It's the ability to run behind the border and snipe everything that annoys me about heroes of might and magic so hopefully with some choke pointing and fort placement it'll be possible to maintain some degree of control. I think the only things you'll be able to perma-snipe is forts and cities, things that should have some kind of standing guard anyway. Gerblyn posted:We've tried to remove the sniping from previous games by saying that the only things worth sniping are forts and cities, since capturing those gives you control over everything within their domain. You can move onto an enemy's mine or farm or whatever, but that only denies the enemy that structure's income while you sit on it, as soon as you leave ownership goes back to whoever owns the local fort/city. At one point we had it so you could raze mines and things, but it was too easy for an attacker to wander about razing everything they saw, while the defender has to run everywhere with a builder rebuilding things. This sounds so much better. Can you still raze cities and forts?
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Jan 28, 2014 15:38
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Shadowmorn posted:This sounds so much better. Can you still raze cities and forts? Yes, forts can be insta-razed, and are destroyed (i.e. you have to build a new fort, not rebuild the dead one). Razing cities turns them into a ruin which can be rebuilt, but razing takes a couple of turns to stop people sniping weakly defended cities in multiplayer.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:08
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Can you choose to burn down your own improvements, you know, to deny your enemy them if you know you cannot hold?
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Jan 28, 2014 16:42
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You can raze your own cities, but it still takes 2 turns at the moment. I think there's also a spell which causes a city to self destruct if it gets captured...
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Jan 28, 2014 17:13
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Gerblyn posted:You can raze your own cities, but it still takes 2 turns at the moment. I think there's also a spell which causes a city to self destruct if it gets captured...  Oh my. Thats going to be such a fantastic "gently caress you." in multiplayer.  What i mean tho was this: Could i say, destroy my gold mine "improvements" if i know i cannot hold long term?
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Jan 28, 2014 17:18
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That booby trap  . Seriously looking forward to this, i have been in love with AoW since i started up the first one with my friend when we where kids and the more i read about AoW 3 the more hyped i get. Release can't get here soon enough, i want my goblin angels!
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Jan 28, 2014 17:21
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Shadowmorn posted:What i mean tho was this: Could i say, destroy my gold mine "improvements" if i know i cannot hold long term? Not really, there are a couple of things that can be razed to deny them to an enemy but they're very rare magic structures, not common resource things.
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Jan 28, 2014 17:26
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You know I completely forgot that while this uses a similar combat system to might+magic, it uses Civ5 style build-your-own-cities. OK with that and the zone of control for resources, that more or less alleviates my gripes. If I want to secure my borders I'll just build fortress cities on the outsides of the empire. 'nother question: Do cities actually occupy multiple map hexes? It looks like it in the videos because they have quite big graphics. Oh also, can you field armies without having to hire a new hero character to lead them? Or at least have standing garrisons in cities and forts without having to add another leader you need to manage?
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Jan 28, 2014 18:30
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