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Kill Dozed posted:It was even used in one of the early trailers. Was it included as one of the deleted scenes on the BluRays? Nope. I suspect it came from the original pilot, about half of which had to get re-shot because they needed a new actress to play Cat. I'd love to see the original pilot, but since it wasn't included in the S1 boxset, I'm not holding out hope it'll ever see the light of day. Edit: Oh and they needed a new Dany too, among several other characters. This link has info on it, although it makes no mention of the cut flashback sequence, so it's possible it appeared in a different episode. I wonder what the context was to show it. Ballz fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 22:21
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Or his parentage is just a neat Easter Egg GRRM put into the story (like Tywin dying of poison), and people have become obsessed with it after way too many years of waiting for a conclusion to the series. I must admit that on my first read-through I didn't pick up on any idea of Tywin's poisoning until I started checking out message boards etc. To be fair it's not so clear as the likes of gay Renly, Jon etc.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:31
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Ballz posted:Edit: Oh and they needed a new Dany too, among several other characters. This link has info on it, although it makes no mention of the cut flashback sequence, so it's possible it appeared in a different episode. I wonder what the context was to show it. Ah, yes, what could have been. Poor Tamzin Merchant. Your weird gawkiness is sorely missed.
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Feb 2, 2014 22:38
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I didn't feel bad for Cersei at all. She gives people that annoy her to Qyburn to experiment on, among her many other flaws and misdeeds. Not to mention attempting to frame Margaery out of paranoia and book Margaery is nowhere near as politically savvy as she is on the show.
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Feb 3, 2014 00:10
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I was under the impression that book Marge was pretty savvy, but we only see her through Cersei, who is clueless at the best of times. As for Cersei herself, she's awful but not any more awful than most of her contemporaries. The walk of shame and Joff's death were hard to read. 
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Feb 3, 2014 00:18
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Marge is definitely savvy, she just has a cute, altruistic exterior that hides it. She's been married to 3 kings. You need to read between the lines with her character.
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Feb 3, 2014 00:25
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So for all of season 3, Australians could buy HD episodes from iTunes right after they'd aired on HBO. Apparently it was quite successful, so of course Foxtel and HBO signed an exclusivity agreement for season 4! Meaning that unless you pay $75+/month for Foxtel, your only other options are waiting 9 months for the DVD/BluRay release, or  Way to go guys 
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Feb 3, 2014 03:38
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webmeister posted:So for all of season 3, Australians could buy HD episodes from iTunes right after they'd aired on HBO. Apparently it was quite successful, so of course Foxtel and HBO signed an exclusivity agreement for season 4! Meaning that unless you pay $75+/month for Foxtel, your only other options are waiting 9 months for the DVD/BluRay release, or http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones This comic seems relevant right about now.
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Feb 3, 2014 04:40
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James R posted:I must admit that on my first read-through I didn't pick up on any idea of Tywin's poisoning until I started checking out message boards etc. To be fair it's not so clear as the likes of gay Renly, Jon etc. I still don't know what's what with all this poison talk. edit; okay, I googled it and I'm sold. Dude was straight up poisoned. Happy Hippo fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 05:20
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Happy Hippo posted:I still don't know what's what with all this poison talk. http://boiledleather.com/post/24196234491/tywin-lannister-dead-man-making GBS threads
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Feb 3, 2014 05:32
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I didn't even thing about Oberyn poisoning Tywin, but I did wonder why they always brought up how abnormally foul smelling Tywin's corpse was and why it got so much focus. Jon's parentage and Renly being gay were pretty obvious to spot though, but the latter does get a lot more mentions way after Renly dies.
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Feb 3, 2014 05:41
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Elias_Maluco posted:As someone who didnt felt bad at all about Joffrey's death (on the contrary), Cersei's walk of shame was one of the most painful chapters for me. It actually made me hate GRUMM and his loving misogynist fantasies. Cersei casually hands over several people to be vivisected and probably worse by a psychopathic wannabe necromancer for the crime of inconveniencing her. And that's just one of the many, many terrible things she does throughout the books. She deserved every step of that Walk of Shame, even more so in that she put herself in that situation while attempting to inflict similar humiliation on another. Her downfall was her well-deserved comeuppance. Why on Earth should she ever get "revenge"?
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Feb 3, 2014 05:52
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Pure schadenfreude
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Feb 3, 2014 10:11
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Alekanderu posted:Cersei casually hands over several people to be vivisected and probably worse by a psychopathic wannabe necromancer for the crime of inconveniencing her. And that's just one of the many, many terrible things she does throughout the books. She deserved every step of that Walk of Shame, even more so in that she put herself in that situation while attempting to inflict similar humiliation on another. Her downfall was her well-deserved comeuppance. Why on Earth should she ever get "revenge"? Because she is a female character and something happened to her. So GRRM is automatically misogynist.  Edit: There are a lot of legitimate things you could complain about, why choose the outcome that a powerhungry character deserved the most? Which was a legit a well written part, too.
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Feb 3, 2014 10:23
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Alekanderu posted:Cersei casually hands over several people to be vivisected and probably worse by a psychopathic wannabe necromancer for the crime of inconveniencing her. And that's just one of the many, many terrible things she does throughout the books. She deserved every step of that Walk of Shame, even more so in that she put herself in that situation while attempting to inflict similar humiliation on another. Her downfall was her well-deserved comeuppance. Why on Earth should she ever get "revenge"? Agreed, she murders babies. Any wrongs that have been done to her pale in comparison to her crimes. However, I really enjoyed her chapters, they were the highlights of the last few books for me.
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Feb 3, 2014 10:33
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Alekanderu posted:Cersei casually hands over several people to be vivisected and probably worse by a psychopathic wannabe necromancer for the crime of inconveniencing her. And that's just one of the many, many terrible things she does throughout the books. She deserved every step of that Walk of Shame, even more so in that she put herself in that situation while attempting to inflict similar humiliation on another. Her downfall was her well-deserved comeuppance. Why on Earth should she ever get "revenge"? Hahaha, thank you. It's a reminder that, no, GRRM isn't "misogynistic" so much as SOME people have such loving insane, warped, inverted morals that they think a woman ever having anything done to her is a crime against humanity no matter the circumstances. Some people call Robert a wife-beater because he smacked Cersei once. While it's technically correct, it's also missing the details, like that it's Cersei Lannister.
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Feb 3, 2014 10:48
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Robert raped her, multiple times, I'm going through AFFC right now. Being a rape victim doesn't mean you can't be terrible, but her complaints about Robert are pretty well founded.
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Feb 3, 2014 10:51
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He did? Well, that's pretty bad, then! I thought it was limited to just smacking her once. Rape's bad, period.
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Feb 3, 2014 11:22
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He'd come in drunk and have his way with her yeah. She says she usually managed to get him off with a handjob or blowjob but sometimes that wouldn't be enough and she'd just have to grit her teeth and bear it. I think she complained once the next day and he blamed it on the alcohol and got all sullen and she never brought it up again. I feel bad for Cersei she had a lovely life. Although she drowned her friend at a young age so who knows man.
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Feb 3, 2014 11:24
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Moridin920 posted:He'd come in drunk and have his way with her yeah. She says she usually managed to get him off with a handjob or blowjob but sometimes that wouldn't be enough and she'd just have to grit her teeth and bear it. I think she complained once the next day and he blamed it on the alcohol and got all sullen and she never brought it up again. Cersei is about as powerful as a woman can possibly get in Westeros and yet she's acutely aware that because the society is incredibly sexist that doesn't actually mean that much and she has incredibly little control over her life so long as there's a man nearby who can remotely plausibly claim to others that he can make decisions for her. Part of her story is GRRM directly critiquing the 'Disney princess' fantasy because actually being a princess and marrying the king didn't actually mean you'd be a liberated individual. The other thing is that she's just as much of a monster as Joffrey is, except she's smart enough to realise that other people exist as entities with thoughts and desires of their own (even if she isn't smart enough to manipulate them the way the other players in the book are).
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Feb 3, 2014 11:42
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Moridin920 posted:Because she is totally stripped of all her trappings of power, including her ability to seem seductive with the way she dresses. Naked, the peasantry can see that she is just an ordinary woman no different from them - thus removing her as a player. Im already sorry for bringing that up but.. it is misogynist has gently caress. She did some pretty hosed up stuff and is a power hungry psycho, but the manner of her punishment says everything. She is a terrible person and could be punished and tortured and killed in a lot of cruel ways, but GRUMM chooses to have her to parade naked while the whole city calls her "whore" (because, you see, she did liked sex and did hosed around). I wonder why is that. Its pretty different to humiliate Tywin in a symbolic way by having him to be murdered on the toilet ("shits gold" etc) and having Cersei go through dozens of pages of literal slut shamming that's ridiculously absurd and exagerated even for a pseudo-medieval fantasy book. If that aint misoginy, I dont know what it is. But enough of this, I know those discussion dont usually end well here. Also, sorry for misspelling Mereewen, dude. Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 12:04
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Elias_Maluco posted:Im already sorry for bringing that up but.. it is misogynist has gently caress. She did some pretty hosed up stuff and is a power hungry psycho, but the manner of her punishment says everything. You are so obnoxious because you can't seem to comprehend that medieval feudalism was an inherently sexist society, and thus its depiction in the book is not for the sake of misogyny, but verisimilitude. If you want to go around getting offended by GRRM on behalf of women, there are a fuckload of legitimate reasons you can do it. "Accurate and deliberately unnerving punishment scene as a depiction of the horrors of a real historical event and society" is NOT one of them.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:09
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It's weird that people seem to think George is frantically jacking it while writing something like the Cersei's walk chapter. Half of the things people say he's doing for kicks are actually meant to have the opposite effect of making you think about how horrifying and unnerving all that poo poo is.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:16
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Elias_Maluco posted:Im already sorry for bringing that up but.. it is misogynist has gently caress. She did some pretty hosed up stuff and is a power hungry psycho, but the manner of her punishment says everything. Dude every single piece of dialogue that is spoken isn't what the author believes. Not every action the characters take in the books is based on the motivations of the author. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the author wants you to think the priests who decided the punishment are the misogynistic ones? How is it that he can have one woman being treated poorly by males and that's misogyny on GRRM's part but he can also have other female characters that are radically different and don't take much poo poo from men (Brienne comes to mind)? It isn't misogyny to have female characters experiencing misogyny. Maybe if every female in the book was a simpering idiot that couldn't do anything right you'd have a case to make about the author's bias but I'm just not seeing it. You need to remove the author from the motivations and feelings of individual characters. When Gregor Clegane is doing his Mountain thing, you aren't mad at the author are you? You wouldn't call the author a torture fetishist because Gregor is a psychopath would you? And dozens of pages is an exaggeration anyway.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:17
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escape artist posted:You are so obnoxious because you can't seem to comprehend that medieval feudalism was an inherently sexist society, and thus its depiction in the book is not for the sake of misogyny, but verisimilitude. If you want to go around getting offended by GRRM on behalf of women, there are a fuckload of legitimate reasons you can do it. "Accurate and deliberately unnerving punishment scene as a depiction of the horrors of a real historical event and society" is NOT one of them. No, that aint any "verisimilitude" in having a Queen Regent, member of a very powerful and rich family, being forced to parade naked in front of the city in the most overly humiliating way. I know feudalism was sexist, but that is just as absurd as ice zombies (or more), sorry.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:18
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I don't see anything strange in having fervent faith stormtroopers deciding the ruling family is corrupt, sinful, and in need of a punishment similar to that, no. The inquisitions ordered by popes during the middle ages did some monstrous things to peasantry and nobles alike. Public spectacle as a method of punishment is certainly not alien to the period nor restricted to just the lower classes either. In fact the walk of shame thing was literally already done with someone who was married to the King of England, the only difference being she was allowed to wear her underwear. But given the morals of the day, that meant she might as well have been naked. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 12:21
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Moridin920 posted:Dude every single piece of dialogue that is spoken isn't what the author believes. Not every action the characters take in the books is based on the motivations of the author. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the author wants you to think the priests who decided the punishment are the misogynistic ones? How is it that he can have one woman being treated poorly by males and that's misogyny on GRRM's part but he can also have other female characters that are radically different and don't take much poo poo from men (Brienne comes to mind)? Elias is obviously a troll or an idiot. Either way, best to ignore him.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:25
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escape artist posted:Elias is obviously a troll or an idiot. Either way, best to ignore him. hahaha, ok, sorry for bringing that up. I knew I would regret it.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:27
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Elias_Maluco posted:No, that aint any "verisimilitude" in having a Queen Regent, member of a very powerful and rich family, being forced to parade naked in front of the city in the most overly humiliating way. If you haven`t picked up the fact that everything in AGOT is "Real life x 1000", such as the wall, the battles, the size of Westeros,etc... you haven't been reading the series.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:37
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I don't know if I would even go that far. Cersei seemed genuinely offended that Sansa wasn't greatfull, and when it comes to understanding other people she is a complete idiot. She really is the female Joffrey, but the fact that she has legitimate gripes re: mysogyny causes people to whitewash her and treat her like an innocent victim. She is a victim, she is in no way innocent.
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Feb 3, 2014 12:54
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Or his parentage is just a neat Easter Egg GRRM put into the story (like Tywin dying of poison), and people have become obsessed with it after way too many years of waiting for a conclusion to the series. I absolutely believe that both R+L=J and Benjen won't have resolutions in the text, because that's the sort of trope GRIM wants to subvert. Jon parentage is a massive "mystery" that would matter in a fantasy novel but means absolutely nothing in the current state of the story.
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Feb 3, 2014 13:44
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escape artist posted:Elias is obviously a troll or an idiot. Either way, best to ignore him. He's not, there are a lot of people who view GRRM's literature as misogynistic to various degrees. Elias_Maluco posted:Im already sorry for bringing that up but.. it is misogynist has gently caress. She did some pretty hosed up stuff and is a power hungry psycho, but the manner of her punishment says everything. She is a terrible person and could be punished and tortured and killed in a lot of cruel ways, but GRUMM chooses to have her to parade naked while the whole city calls her "whore" (because, you see, she did liked sex and did hosed around). I wonder why is that. I don't think that the verisimilitude argument holds water either and I think people tend to overstate just how realistic ASOIAF is intended to be, for me the key realization is that GRRM attempted to create what feels like an organic world populated by what could almost pass as believable people. The Faith is a puritanical organization and Westeros itself is pretty misogynistic, Cersei's punishment being far more petty and offensive than what other characters had to endure is believable within the context of the story, also worth noting that Cersei unlike other 'bad dudes' managed to piss off her own power base and had to be figuratively sacrificed by Kevan to appease the Tyrells.
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Feb 3, 2014 13:57
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Elias_Maluco posted:No, that aint any "verisimilitude" in having a Queen Regent, member of a very powerful and rich family, being forced to parade naked in front of the city in the most overly humiliating way. A thing that literally happened in medieval England: as absurd as zombies and magic.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:13
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I don't think that the verisimilitude argument holds water either and I think people tend to overstate just how realistic ASOIAF is intended to be, for me the key realization is that GRRM attempted to create what feels like an organic world populated by what could almost pass as believable people. The Faith is a puritanical organization and Westeros itself is pretty misogynistic, Cersei's punishment being far more petty and offensive than what other characters had to endure is believable within the context of the story, also worth noting that Cersei unlike other 'bad dudes' managed to piss off her own power base and had to be figuratively sacrificed by Kevan to appease the Tyrells. Bear in mind that Osney Kettleblack is literally tortured by the Faith on the hunch that he's hiding something on his initial confession. What happens to her is a focused assault on her ego (essentially a punishment for being a woman wanting agency designed to make her 'learn her place') but I'd hesitate to call it 'worse' than what other characters suffer. It's a more focused attack on who she is and what she wants.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:15
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GRR may be a terrible misogynist, but it isn't nearly as bad as Cormac McCarthy calling for the racial genocide of Native Americans and murder of Mexicans in Blood Meridian.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:17
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Professor Shark posted:GRR may be a terrible misogynist, but it isn't nearly as bad as Cormac McCarthy calling for the racial genocide of Native Americans and murder of Mexicans in Blood Meridian. Where did you get that impression from 'Blood Meridian'?
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Feb 3, 2014 14:33
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And Heinlein was a fascist, I mean, have you even read Starship Troopers?
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Feb 3, 2014 14:38
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Elias_Maluco posted:Im already sorry for bringing that up but.. it is misogynist has gently caress. She did some pretty hosed up stuff and is a power hungry psycho, but the manner of her punishment says everything. She is a terrible person and could be punished and tortured and killed in a lot of cruel ways, but GRUMM chooses to have her to parade naked while the whole city calls her "whore" (because, you see, she did liked sex and did hosed around). I wonder why is that. I think that the resolution will be the key point in deciding how misogynistic the scene will turn out to be. It'll be one thing if the walk of shame eventually serves a similar redemptive function to Theon's castration or Jaime losing his hand, it'll be another if GRRM chooses not to let Cersei learn from the experience (unlike his male characters). On that note, the real-world Jane Shore had a happy ending. She absolutely recovered from that low point, and, apparently, died in affluence at the age of 82.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:40
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Dr Seuss wants everyone to get food poisoning. I shouldn't have to say this but dont eat green eggs and ham. That indicates mold.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:48
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:And Heinlein was a fascist, I mean, have you even read Starship Troopers? And a pedophile. A Door into Summer has one of the most hosed up romantic plots in the history of sci-fi.
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Feb 3, 2014 14:49
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