|
I'll probably not get any byes for Manchester, but a decent performance there should get me one for Utrect.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 18:29 |
|
|
Madmarker posted:I remember the legions prerelease, it was like in some auditorium in the middle of nowhere North Carolina. I remember signing up for a sealed flight, not really knowing what i was doing. I had a pool that I remember having wirewood savage and tons of beasts. So I built a monogreen beast deck/ I ended up 4-0ing my pod at the prerelease. That right there hooked me on the cards. So I have a softspot for onslaught block. It may be a bad set, but I will always love it. Sup "Wirewood Savage hooked me back into Magic" buddy. I loving loved that card when I started the game out on casual multiplayer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 19:42
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:I'll probably not get any byes for Manchester, but a decent performance there should get me one for Utrect. Oh. In Europe it's way harder, especially for England. It's probably easier to win a GPT than to get 750 PWP.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
Zoness posted:But they've already done that. Twice! Zendikar was legitimately a cool well-designed set. Allies were uber-popular, Quests/Ascensions were cool and powerful in the right formats, Landfall is a great mechanic, and the "adventure" aesthetic was also super-sweet. The limited environment is what sucked.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Lord Of Texas posted:Zendikar was legitimately a cool well-designed set. Allies were uber-popular, Quests/Ascensions were cool and powerful in the right formats, Landfall is a great mechanic, and the "adventure" aesthetic was also super-sweet. None of those cards were like, relevant when Jund was in full force in Alara-Zen standard. Then BBE rotated and JTMS, Stoneforge Mystic, and Squadron Hawk became the scourges of the format. I'd argue that barring Fetches, Valakut, Iona, Spell Pierce, and Goblin Guide (and maybe Steppe Lynx) Zendikar was a pretty lackluster set for constructed play, which make worse how awful it was as a limited format, since at least CCC was a great limited format even if Champions of Kamigawa was a really low-powered set for constructed. Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
Time has been really kind to Kamigawa block as a whole, as well. Looking at e CHK price visualizer, I can see 5 cards that are either the core engine of an archetype (Glimpse of Nature, Gifts Ungiven, Sensei's Divining Top) or simply an iconic part of the deck itself (Kiki-Jiki, Through the Breach). There's a few more bit players at common/uncommon as well, like Lava Spike or Desperate Ritual, but those 5 cards alone are a very strong showing for an older large set.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:Sorry, I really like Affinity and it is not a deck that hasn't posted finishes or gets overlooked. Its a very frequently played deck, see's a ton of hate, and does well anyway. Not that this has anything to do with stifle, but don't talk poo poo about my Affinity. When the best you can say about a deck is that it consistently breaks the Top 16 places, its not exactly a glowing review. Especially when you consider the fact that the other decks that consistently appear in the 9-16 slots are also lists that are consistently making Top 8's and winning events. I mean that's not awful or anything, Soul Sisters isn't cracking a Top 16 anytime soon but that still leaves Affinity in the very awkward position of "strictly better than the bad decks, but not as good as the good decks" Frankly I think its funny that I forgot about Brisbane, apparently so did every pro and Grinder in the world. I just can't take the result from an event with 1/4 the attendance of the Modern GP's that came before and after it as seriously as I take the nearly 2 years since Affinity made it to the single elimination tables. I love Affinity, I will never get tired of vomiting out my hand and winning Turn 2 with an Inkmoth Nexus but it's just not a strong choice these days.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Zoness posted:None of those cards were like, relevant when Jund was in full force in Alara-Zen standard. Then BBE rotated and JTMS, Stoneforge Mystic, and Squadron Hawk became the scourges of the format. I'd argue that barring Fetches, Valakut, Iona, Spell Pierce, and Goblin Guide (and maybe Steppe Lynx) Zendikar was a pretty lackluster set for constructed play, which make worse how awful it was as a limited format, since at least CCC was a great limited format even if Champions of Kamigawa was a really low-powered set for constructed. I wasn't talking about constructed viability, and that's pretty apparent in my post, but I'll humor you. I would agree with you if your argument was that the non-fetch rares/mythics in Zen were overall weak for constructed, but you're including cards like Spell Pierce and Steppe Lynx so that's clearly not your argument. Aside from the cards you mentioned, Lotus Cobra, Oracle of Mul Daya, Pyromancer Ascension, Punishing Fire, Spreading Seas, Goblin Ruinblaster, Goblin Bushwhacker, and Vampire Hexmage have all had HUGE impacts on various constructed formats. The various Vampires from the set saw a ton of standard play in their own deck with Nocturnus. Sphinx of Jwar Isle was the finisher of choice for blue decks in Zen standard until the Titans showed up. Into the Roil, Journey to Nowhere, Disfigure, Plated Geopede, Mindbreak Trap, Bloodghast, and Burst Lightning have been excellent role players in various formats. The biggest failure of Zendikar other than the limited format was that the planeswalkers were just awful. Sorin was the closest to good, and he could have really used a 4BB or 2BBB cost. That probably goes a long way as to why Zendikar is (apparently) viewed as a "weak set for Constructed", even when that's not really the case. Lord Of Texas fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
Lord Of Texas posted:I wasn't talking about constructed viability, and that's pretty apparent in my post, but I'll humor you. I would agree with you if your argument was that the non-fetch rares/mythics in Zen were overall weak for constructed, but you're including cards like Spell Pierce and Steppe Lynx so that's clearly not your argument. I assumed you were talking about constructed because you say a bunch of things were cool in Zendikar but then say the limited environment sucked (the limited environment was awful and by that standpoint I wouldn't call any of Zendikar's limited themes neat because they all boiled down to hit a drop every turn from turn 2-5 or lose). And it was a really comparatively weak for constructed when you consider that the major decks in the format until Alara rotated used primarily cards from Alara or bolts from M10. The aggressive decks were comprised majorly of Zendikar cards but a lot of the heavy lifters in Jund and U/W came from the previous set. DoJ was nice but that was there because they didn't print Wrath again in M10 to push regeneration and stuff. A lot of the perspective here is given that this is the eternal thread and that Hexmage is now not played (and it was banned after its main run), but I will admit to neglecting Bloodghast, Punishing Fire, and Mindbreak Trap. Still, the Zendikar standard format as the set was rotating in was really dull to brew in and that's my basis for calling Zendikar a weak constructed set - it didn't push any theme that would reliably get around the fact that Bloodbraid would wreck any plan you had. But that's not really fair considering that this was essentially Bloodbraid Elf being ridiculously broken, I suppose.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
Stinky Pit posted:When the best you can say about a deck is that it consistently breaks the Top 16 places, its not exactly a glowing review. Especially when you consider the fact that the other decks that consistently appear in the 9-16 slots are also lists that are consistently making Top 8's and winning events. I mean that's not awful or anything, Soul Sisters isn't cracking a Top 16 anytime soon but that still leaves Affinity in the very awkward position of "strictly better than the bad decks, but not as good as the good decks" So I figured pointing out it is top 16 frequently would be enough, but I'll come back with more. I revise my statements to say it has top 8'd 10 of the last 13 modern GP's and won 2 of them. 2013-2014 gp prague NO gp antwerp 5th gp brisbane 1st gp detroit 6th gp kansas NO 2012-2013 gp portland 3rd gp san diego 5th gp bilbao NO gp toronto 4th gp chicago 4th gp lyon 4th gp columbus 1st gp yokohama 5th In complete seriousness, the only decks I'd consider playing to win more would be Jund or Pod. Affinity is a personal choice for me because my game is sharper with aggressive decks that rely on fast wins. I also enjoy UG infect, and I'd like to try Merfolk but $9 uncommons make me really mad. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
Zoness posted:I assumed you were talking about constructed because you say a bunch of things were cool in Zendikar but then say the limited environment sucked (the limited environment was awful and by that standpoint I wouldn't call any of Zendikar's limited themes neat because they all boiled down to hit a drop every turn from turn 2-5 or lose). Yes, if the context is solely Fall 2009 standard, then I agree. Other than the Boros and Vampire aggro decks, the top decks were extremely Alara-heavy. But in the eternal frame of things, Zendikar has had a ton of constructed impact.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:In complete seriousness, the only decks I'd consider playing to win more would be Jund or Pod. Affinity is a personal choice for me because my game is sharper with aggressive decks that rely on fast wins. I also enjoy UG infect, and I'd like to try Merfolk but $9 uncommons make me really mad. Fair enough, I hadn't actually gone back and looked at results and was going totally from memory, I assumed when you said Top 16 you meant, 9-16 because I couldn't remember the last time I had seen Affinity in the elimination rounds. For what its worth, we've been testing lots of Modern lately, and one of the few things we quickly sort of agreed to was the fact that Affinity was not the deck anyone would be taking to GP Richmond. Maybe that's just because me and my testing partners are all terrible. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
Affinity is good and it can definitely steal wins, but it is just so easy to hate out. Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, Ancient Grudge, Kataki, Harmonic Sliver, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree... These are all cards that Tier 1 decks pack in their sideboards. There are really no other decks that just scoop to a single card like Affinity does. Piloting it, you pretty much HAVE to win game 1 and then hope they don't draw hate for games 2 and 3.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
Stinky Pit posted:Fair enough, I hadn't actually gone back and looked at results and was going totally from memory, I assumed when you said Top 16 you meant, 9-16 because I couldn't remember the last time I had seen Affinity in the elimination rounds. I'm terrible too but I'm fairly certain affinity is going to be my choice for Richmond. That or UG infect, I'm not 100% sure yet. My choices are more determined by budget and how I feel playing the deck for a long period of time. I have tested UB Fae a bit and would seriously think about running it but I'd have less than a month to aquire it and play it, and I don't have that much playtime. *shrug* Affinity is imo the best cheap deck one can play and it isn't as mentally taxing as some other decks I've tinkered with. Affinity can run a lot of quality SB options as long as they are 1-2 drops with only 1 colored mana requirement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
ScarletBrother posted:Affinity is good and it can definitely steal wins, but it is just so easy to hate out. Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, Ancient Grudge, Kataki, Harmonic Sliver, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree... Eh sure but Affinity has God draws that can easily win on turn 3 or 4. So it just becomes a who-draws-better contest in games 2 and 3.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:42
|
|
|
ScarletBrother posted:Affinity is good and it can definitely steal wins, but it is just so easy to hate out. Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, Ancient Grudge, Kataki, Harmonic Sliver, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree... I love this perception. People act like artifact removal is somehow more special than jund packing a giant suite of removal. A card removed by bolt, decay, pulse, liliana is somehow less removed than something killed by ancient grudge? Its not as big a deal as it sounds. Tron is more wrecked by sowing salt than affinity is by shatterstorm if you are aware it exists and they might cast it. Tron can't pace itself or run things like spell pierce or thoughseize to protect itself. I mean sometimes they have it, sure. Sometimes Twin looses to a removal spell. Its magic. Artifact removal isn't a good reason not to play one of the fastest most consistent and aggressive decks in the format. I mean some things like stony silence suuck, but that isn't as common as red removal really. red removal isn't really that much worse than other red, green, or black removal. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:I love this perception. People act like artifact removal is somehow more special than jund packing a giant suite of removal. A card removed by bolt, decay, pulse, liliana is somehow less removed than something killed by ancient grudge? Its not as big a deal as it sounds. Tron is more wrecked by sowing salt than affinity is by shatterstorm if you are aware it exists and they might cast it. Tron can't pace itself or run things like spell pierce or thoughseize to protect itself. There's also the welding jar plan where if they drop the mass removal (barring shatterstorm) you load all your +1/+1 counters onto a land or ravager and just keep going. Also affinity lists tend to play Spell Pierce or Thoughtseize. ScarletBrother posted:Affinity is good and it can definitely steal wins, but it is just so easy to hate out. Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, Ancient Grudge, Kataki, Harmonic Sliver, Nature's Claim, Shattering Spree... Also once again someone lists off Affinity hate cards without naming the actual lethal hate card in Stony Silence. Stony Silence almost completely destroys an Affinity player's ability to kill you or play anything other than colorless artifacts, but you can still lose to a Signal Pest onslaught. But yeah if yo'ure just talking one-for-ones or Wraths Affinity really doesn't care much about any of those. Ravager and Steel Overseer are both really good against one-for-ones while welding jar can really hurt any wrath-based plans. Zoness fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
Zoness posted:There's also the welding jar plan where if they drop the mass removal (barring shatterstorm) you load all your +1/+1 counters onto a land or ravager and just keep going. Yup, I have switched from ancient grudge to wear//tear in my sideboard. I can either tap a drum/opal in response to stony if I have it, or hope for a glimmervoid. It is a slim out, but that plus thoughtseizes gives me play against even stony silence. Also etched champion is so good, even against stony he can just keep marching on. UWR control is by far the worst matchup, it has an answer for everything except etched champion, and that is assuming they don't just counter it. You basically have to pray for the insane god draw t1-2 etched champion against that deck. I'd rather play a deck with 4x of any artifact hate card than UWR control. Its just a lovely game where you wonder if he'll counter or remove your next play! jassi007 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:51
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:I love this perception. People act like artifact removal is somehow more special than jund packing a giant suite of removal. I think the difference is that very few decks have more efficient removal in the sideboard. Affinity has to deal with the usual problems good removal and sweepers can cause an aggro deck, plus more efficient removal/hate out of the board, it takes a toll.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
Dude, I didn't kill your puppy or anything. I said the deck was good. It's just a risk because it's easier to hate out than any other strategy is all I'm trying to say. It's certainly a solid choice any given day. I disagree with you that it's an easy deck to pilot. There is a lot of combat math and you have to decide whether to go for the poison kill via Inkmoth Nexus or the damage kill. Is it a good deck? Absolutely. Would I ever bring it to a large tournament and expect to win? Not really because IMO it's too fragile. Sure, removal is removal, but "regular" removal doesn't 2 (or more) for 1 you like Grudge, Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, or Shattering Spree do. Enjoy your robots and I hope you smash face and prove me wrong. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Stinky Pit posted:I think the difference is that very few decks have more efficient removal in the sideboard. Affinity has to deal with the usual problems good removal and sweepers can cause an aggro deck, plus more efficient removal/hate out of the board, it takes a toll. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but it clearly isn't enough of a problem to keep the deck from doing well in the format. It is fast, and the removal isn't that good. If death and taxes was a better deck, then it might be a real thing because white has the best hate spells for affinity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
ScarletBrother posted:Dude, I didn't kill your puppy or anything. I said the deck was good. It's just a risk because it's easier to hate out than any other strategy is all I'm trying to say. It's certainly a solid choice any given day. I disagree with you that it's an easy deck to pilot. There is a lot of combat math and you have to decide whether to go for the poison kill via Inkmoth Nexus or the damage kill. If I sound defensive I'm not trying to per say, I like to talk about the pro's and con's of the deck I play and gain new insight into it. The hate is effective, but not significantly so. Take shatterstorm, corrosion. It is better than wrath, it hits non-creatures in my deck. However, it is still 4cmc and that is LATE against affinity. Shattering spree is good value, and I honestly advocate it over shatterstorm against me. My friend running storm wanted to run shatterstorm, I tested with him a lot until he saw the value of the t2-3 removal vs. t4. Imo you make your play against me on t2 or 3 or I'll probably win more than 50/50. That really means you have to have your sideboard in your opening hand or pray for one or two good topdecks. Even then I have outs and comebacks so its still fair. You can draw you shattering spree but I can draw my thoughtseize, right? Stony silence is an awful blowout though. I hate that card so much.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:03
|
|
|
Pretty much echoing jassi here. Affinity is a lot more resilient than people give it credit for because it has a lot of decisions at any step. Ravager laughs in the face of normal removal which is why it beats a lot of "normal aggro" issues, while Nexus gives the deck a second plan against decks with lifegain or the ability to just kill out of nowhere. The dedicated hate for it is there, but it's not as common as the splash hate, and since you're playing an aggressive deck you can just hedge on them not getting their hate in time. Plus, spell piercing a Shatterstorm is just hilarious. Stony Silence is scary because it comes down on turn 2 and it's also good against pod and tron and it blows you out. Shatterstorm is less likely to be relevant and recoverable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
Yeah, Stony Silence seems really rough. Is that card basically an auto-win for the opponent if they land it early?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:08
|
|
|
ScarletBrother posted:Yeah, Stony Silence seems really rough. Is that card basically an auto-win for the opponent if they land it early? You can win if they fail to deal with an onslaught of 0/1 battle criers, 0/2's, 2/2's, and 1/1's. You're essentially cut off of 1/3 of your mana sources, including 8/11 of your colored mana sources. Ravager's sac ability is voided which is a huge deal, and Cranial Plating loses all of its bite. All the good cards in the deck are shut down, essentially.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Zoness posted:You can win if they fail to deal with an onslaught of 0/1 battle criers, 0/2's, 2/2's, and 1/1's. You're essentially cut off of 1/3 of your mana sources, including 8/11 of your colored mana sources. Ravager's sac ability is voided which is a huge deal, and Cranial Plating loses all of its bite. All the good cards in the deck are shut down, essentially. Hey what do you think about Illness in the Ranks in Affinity's sideboard to deal with Fae and Splintertwin/kiki pod?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:Hey what do you think about Illness in the Ranks in Affinity's sideboard to deal with Fae and Splintertwin/kiki pod? I use like two of them. I haven't tested against faeries but I wouldn't run too many hate cards because it just slows down your own win when you draw too many hate cards, etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
I'd argue that Affinity is the hardest aggro deck to pilot in the history of Magic. In all of its forms.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:I'd argue that Affinity is the hardest aggro deck to pilot in the history of Magic. In all of its forms. Nope, doomsday. There are definitely more than that, but doomsday continues to be the bar to which difficulty is set. Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case I'd say affinity is a bit harder than you would think. edit I'm dumb mbt fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:03
|
|
|
AnacondaHL posted:I'd argue that Affinity is the hardest aggro deck to pilot in the history of Magic. In all of its forms. I take issue with "in all of its forms," because pre-banning Mirrodin standard was dead-easy. Play hand, Thoughtcast to refill hand, swing, all-in with Ravager, sac board to Disciple of the Vault, Shrapnel Blast if they are (somehow) still alive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:04
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:Nope, doomsday. There are definitely more than that, but doomsday continues to be the bar to which difficulty is set. Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case I'd say affinity is a bit harder than you would think. I really, really want to see someone play Doomsday as an aggro deck. Someone, go do this!
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Oh wow I misread it! I'm going to get right on that. Affinity then yeah that's the hardest aggro deck. It's all about those mindgames with bl/inkmoth nexii, you can really hose people if they forget about them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:09
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:Hey what do you think about Illness in the Ranks in Affinity's sideboard to deal with Fae and Splintertwin/kiki pod? I've been thinking of it as a one of.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:12
|
|
|
I don't know why people equate 'hard to pilot' with some prideful sense of accomplishment. It's basically a synonym for, "easy to screw up and lose." A deck that's hard to pilot means you have to intuit the right play among potentially many options, many times, or be punished. Why not play a deck with a margin of safety? Anyways, like people have said affinity is very good and is also self limiting in the metagame, since it is so easy to hate out. Decks that are unique and powerful but also answerable if you accept the opportunity cost to do so make for fun metagames IMO.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:I don't know why people equate 'hard to pilot' with some prideful sense of accomplishment. It's basically a synonym for, "easy to screw up and lose." A deck that's hard to pilot means you have to intuit the right play among potentially many options, many times, or be punished. Why not play a deck with a margin of safety? I wonder if nacatl and bitterblossom being the boogeymen of Modern now if gameplans will shift toward dealing with them and leave poor little affinity alone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:16
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:I don't know why people equate 'hard to pilot' with some prideful sense of accomplishment. It's basically a synonym for, "easy to screw up and lose." A deck that's hard to pilot means you have to intuit the right play among potentially many options, many times, or be punished. Why not play a deck with a margin of safety? Usually the decks that are 'hard to pilot' also reward you by being nigh unstoppable if piloted well. You trade the time it takes to learn the deck for an expected higher EV in tournaments.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:I wonder if nacatl and bitterblossom being the boogeymen of Modern now if gameplans will shift toward dealing with them and leave poor little affinity alone. Volcanic Fallout and Anger of the Gods (my answers in Twin to those two decks) still seem pretty good against Affinity. IDK though. Haven't tested those two matchups.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:17
|
|
Tharizdun posted:I take issue with "in all of its forms," because pre-banning Mirrodin standard was dead-easy. Play hand, Thoughtcast to refill hand, swing, all-in with Ravager, sac board to Disciple of the Vault, Shrapnel Blast if they are (somehow) still alive. Fair enough, but for the 20% of games where you didn't get the Broken McBrokerson it was still a neat aggro deck with more play to it than the typical. (Pyroclasm has always been legal and played vs all forms of Affinity). fake edit: oh yea I'm assuming you're talking about Darksteel Standard pre-first-banning, so Skullclamp was in that version too, so like the 7% of games were hard  The Mirrodin-only version of the deck was actually a cool aggro deck that showcased only mildly-broken Affinity mechanic.Also, the keyword was aggro, obviously there have been ridiculously complex combo and control decks.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
Jenx posted:I really, really want to see someone play Doomsday as an aggro deck. Someone, go do this! I would not be surprised if most people had the same record playing Doomsday as an aggro deck as they did playing it as a combo deck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 18:29 |
|
|
Its a little early to be calling Bitterblossom and Wild Nacatl the boogeymen of the format. I'll be surprised if Fae or Zoo even manage to break into the current format, let alone become problematic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:20
|
|