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Doug was one of my favorite characters.  Really enjoyed season 2 overall, the Tusk-Francis stuff was great. The only thing disappointing me though is that we won't have the President eating Freddy's ribs.
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Feb 23, 2014 11:59
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:The Feng asphyxiation scene defines how we see him from every scene after that since it was how we were introduced to him. In a later piece of dialogue he states that he wants to "experience everything" or something along those lines - to Feng, having the ability to do that is power. While I do kind of get that - and I'd say it was also a way to show the audience that he was very "progressive" for a high-ranking Chinese man, which gets referenced several times later - I was still expecting it to be a setup for someone to GOTCHA him. And I wouldn't rule that happening out in season 3, just like everyone thought Frank's bisexuality was a pointless reveal.
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Feb 23, 2014 12:35
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...HOLY loving poo poo. The S2 opener oh my loving god jesus christ.
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Feb 23, 2014 12:52
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Its still possible that Frank is just a Meecham-sexual and not bi. I mean, c'mon, its svelte, taciturn Meecham, prone to dainty gifts and he's a good catcher (oh god, I just got the significance of that scene.)
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Feb 23, 2014 12:54
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Shadow Puppet Of posted:Its still possible that Frank is just a Meecham-sexual and not bi. I mean, c'mon, its svelte, taciturn Meecham, prone to dainty gifts and he's a good catcher (oh god, I just got the significance of that scene.) He had a boyfriend in college.
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Feb 23, 2014 12:59
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Shadow Puppet Of posted:Its still possible that Frank is just a Meecham-sexual and not bi. I mean, c'mon, its svelte, taciturn Meecham, prone to dainty gifts and he's a good catcher (oh god, I just got the significance of that scene.) He had the dude in college. I'm just starting episode 2, but can I assume he actually accepted the cufflinks because he wants dat Meecham rear end?
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Feb 23, 2014 13:04
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Well alright then, I rescind my ill-informed theory that Meecham was just too much to resist.
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Feb 23, 2014 13:05
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Arrgytehpirate posted:He had the dude in college. I'm just starting episode 2, but can I assume he actually accepted the cufflinks because he wants dat Meecham rear end? No, I think he appreciated the "F U" joke.
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Feb 23, 2014 13:20
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To be fair, who could resist Kevin Spacey with that genteel southerner accent? 
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Feb 23, 2014 14:16
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This show has shown me just how quirky some of the laws are in the US.
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Feb 23, 2014 15:19
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precision posted:While I do kind of get that - and I'd say it was also a way to show the audience that he was very "progressive" for a high-ranking Chinese man, which gets referenced several times later - I was still expecting it to be a setup for someone to GOTCHA him. And I wouldn't rule that happening out in season 3, just like everyone thought Frank's bisexuality was a pointless reveal. Feng almost certainly won't be around for Season 3 to get GOTCHA'd, considering he got sent back to China where he'll almost certainly be executed.
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Feb 23, 2014 16:18
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I'm sure both Frank and Claire like Meecham on a personal level, but if you carefully watch both season, you'll see that Frank carefully cultivates Meecham from day 1 the way he does everyone else: to have maximum leverage over him, to have him compromised in certain ways and dependent on Frank. Even though the shooting incident that got Meecham in trouble would normally be a black mark against someone to move up, be a bodyguard or Secret Service, Frank viewed it as a plus because it would give him leverage over Meecham and generate more loyalty as Frank was the man rescuing Meecham off the street. If you're going to be involved in shady doings, it's helpful to have a gun wielding security guy who is absolutely loyal to you and will be willing to do anything to protect you, both out of loyalty and fear of the consequences of doing otherwise. You might need that guy to move a body, plant a gun, remove evidence, whatever. The sexual threesome, while I'm sure it was physically enjoyable to the Underwoods also, very much served the purpose of planting another dark conspiratorial secret between the two of them and Meecham that would cement this situation of loyalty and leverage. You can see this pattern in Frank's dealings with almost anyone. A good example is in the early episodes of season 1 when Frank (I think it was Frank and not Claire) helped President Walker's assistant's kid getting into Stanford to cultivate an "in" and get a little leverage with her, which he used not long afterwards. It's interesting the incredible amount of behind the scenes work Frank does to get this kind of leverage, such as getting Russo out of jail and getting the GOP attack ad campaign to stop, where the object of the leverage often has no idea there was any intervention, only to have it revealed to them by Frank at the strategically proper time.
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Feb 23, 2014 16:36
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I'm just gonna throw this out there: I like Frank. Not in the self-denial "I'm still rooting for Walter White" kind of way, just that the way Spacey plays the role, it's almost impossible to NOT get enamored of the guy. If anything, Spacey is making him TOO likeable (though the scriptwriters putting in things like his relationship with Freddy don't hurt). Maybe I'm Meecham. I sure wouldn't say no to that threesome!
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Feb 23, 2014 16:43
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precision posted:I'm just gonna throw this out there: I like him too. In real life there are plenty of charming psychopaths. It's nice that this one is safely on the
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Feb 23, 2014 17:41
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Just finished Season 2, and I pretty much hate everyone who is still alive besides Cashew and Gavin. And maybe Christina because she was gorgeous.
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Feb 23, 2014 21:10
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Yeah, I really like Gavin, partially because I like the actor playing him anyway.
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Feb 23, 2014 21:46
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I couldn't keep up with some of the things- namely why did Frank undermine Feng during his meeting with him? Was it to undermine Tusk? What was the point of not getting the bridge put through?
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Feb 24, 2014 00:46
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Leelee posted:I couldn't keep up with some of the things- namely why did Frank undermine Feng during his meeting with him? Was it to undermine Tusk? What was the point of not getting the bridge put through? It was part of his long term plan to drive a wedge between the president and Tusk.
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Feb 24, 2014 01:00
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I thought the threesome with Meetchum was unnessecary, but whatever. Give the people what they want to see I guess.
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Feb 24, 2014 01:11
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I think we'll see the Meetchum thing get leveraged down the line when they need him to do something highly unethical. He owes his career to them and now he feels a strong personal connection to them.
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Feb 24, 2014 01:26
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cravius posted:I thought the threesome with Meetchum was unnessecary, but whatever. Give the people what they want to see I guess. I thought it was pretty solid further characterization and potential storybuilding. They also didn't show a sex scene, just kissing. Are you upset/reactive when they show some dude pumping away at some chick, like with Frank and Zoe, or some other dude and some other chick?
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Feb 24, 2014 01:32
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Yeah, I don't understand why it's "unnecessary". Regardless of how the Underwoods feel about it, Meetchum probably strongly feels personally tied to them now and will probably do anything for them. Whoever said that with Stamper dead, Meetchum is going to become Frank's personal enforcer in Season 3 is probably absolutely right.
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Feb 24, 2014 01:46
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dcgrp posted:I think we'll see the Meetchum thing get leveraged down the line when they need him to do something highly unethical. He owes his career to them and now he feels a strong personal connection to them. well if you look at the UK version; the Bodyguard organized people to disappear
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Feb 24, 2014 01:46
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Something I found funny was when Frank said that he couldn't understand how one could take a bullet for someone else, in a conversation with Meechum. I might he grasping here, but that really seemed like a knock at his and the president's relationship.
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Feb 24, 2014 02:50
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One touch that I did like was that Tusk pronounced Feng's name correctly while everyone else pronounced it by how it's spelled. Walker mispronouncing Qian, however, is just an oversight.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt48nm59gW4 For people who haven't seen this.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:19
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There is no way Meechum would fill the same role of "fixer" as Doug. Doug was clever and knew what was going on in the world of politics. Meechum is strictly muscle, an insurance policy who might be called upon to do a dirty deed or two in a crucial situation.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:22
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On the flip side he has less need for a fixer, what with already having the highest office in the land. His 'fixer' is the United States Government now. He won.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:38
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Boogaleeboo posted:On the flip side he has less need for a fixer, what with already having the highest office in the land. His 'fixer' is the United States Government now. He won. Nah, you need at minimum someone you can trust like Frank trusted Doug, to not blab about your dirty secrets and illegal poo poo you've done, and to do some of that stuff for you. Just because you have the might of the NSA, CIA and military behind you, you can't necessarily utilize those assets to do illegal things and assume it won't blow back on you as a career ending scandal unless you're dealing with people you've known for years (and even then sometimes).
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Feb 24, 2014 03:43
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Why did Frank bury his ring at the end of the ground breaking? Did he actually care for his great great great grandfather?
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Feb 24, 2014 04:26
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Zwabu posted:Nah, you need at minimum someone you can trust like Frank trusted Doug, to not blab about your dirty secrets and illegal poo poo you've done, and to do some of that stuff for you. Lesser men do. The President....not so much. Moreover all the illegal poo poo he *already* did has an easy out: The only person that can be tied to any of it is Doug, who is dead, and who wouldn't even mind his death being used to further Frank's ends. All of that can be laid at the grave of Doug. Moving forward...he's done. The only real thing left is potentially winning reelection, and even that is more putting a gold star next to a flawless victory. Even if every horrible thing he ever did came to light, he'd still win. It's not like he'd retroactively stop having been President. And that's pretty unlikely because, again, everyone that can directly tie him to anything major is Doug, and thus dead. That's it, there was one guy that really had a material connection to the worst things he's done. So scandal can hit him, but nothing worse. Going forward there simply aren't the same sort of figures he's had to deal with in the past, nor is there the same power imbalance. He's being fighting above his weight class for the first two seasons. In season three, anyone that attacks him is attacking the President of the United States. Vast swaths of the government are required to defend him by definition. And he's only playing out the clock, you can only be President for so long. Once that passes, he's finished. Which isn't to say I expect him to have a boring and relaxed season three, just that he'll be spending season three in a very different position than we've seen him in in the past. What does a Frank that is on top look like? Would he get bored and start losing his edge? Would he lash out just to make drama? What sort of policy would a man that really doesn't care about politics set?
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Feb 24, 2014 04:31
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Why did Frank bury his ring at the end of the ground breaking? Did he actually care for his great great great grandfather? Yes. He wasn't above using the occasion for his own purposes (the secret meeting) but hearing the story clearly took him by surprise and faced him with his own mortality.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:47
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I was never really bothered by how weak the President was. I think that, since we never hear a mention of Obama or even Bush as I recall, the political landscape was pretty different. Maybe Walker's platform was based on being open to new ideas and new viewpoints and that was just a cover for "Not willing to make lovely decisions on a whim based on political beliefs." and therefore he was just a lot easier to bulldoze over than usual.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:59
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OldTennisCourt posted:I was never really bothered by how weak the President was. I think that, since we never hear a mention of Obama or even Bush as I recall, the political landscape was pretty different. Maybe Walker's platform was based on being open to new ideas and new viewpoints and that was just a cover for "Not willing to make lovely decisions on a whim based on political beliefs." and therefore he was just a lot easier to bulldoze over than usual. This x 1,000,000. His ability to be swayed into changing his mind after taking a seemingly irreversible course of action was kind of ridiculous. "Hey, I'll just revoke the offer to pardon my billionaire mentor who has the power to destroy me with any testimony he may give. He totally won't mind, right  ?"Also, as much as I hated Feng's cartoony villain status, I absolutely loved Frank's bait and switch when he had him deported to China and inevitably his death right after becoming president. I was hoping Frank would settle the score after the complete disrespect he got from Feng during their meeting out in the woods, and he certainly delivered.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:58
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Yeah, Walker was always meant to be taken as a joke of an ineffectual President. I guess the real world parallel might be someone like Jimmy Carter. I know it's more or less impossible but I'd love an Obama cameo in season 3, since he's a fan of the show. At least get better cable TV journalists, Hannity was just terrible (but the others were fine). Also, for a fun time, watch Veep right before this show. Good lord, what I wouldn't give for just one episode that's a crossover between them. Julia Louis-Dreyfus tearing into Frank would be glorious. edit: Why did Claire want to get rid of Christina so badly? I assumed it was because of her ties to Russo, and Claire didn't like being reminded that Francis killed such a genuinely good man, but then she started doing the "hey First Lady, she might be banging your husband" bit, which could have just been a way of weakening the President with at-home stress. precision fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 10:42
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Drifter posted:I thought it was pretty solid further characterization and potential storybuilding. The creepy part of that scene, though, for me - and actually correct me if I'm wrong - but it gave the vibe Frank and Claire just can't be intimate without a third person proxy involved somehow. It got me thinking and really hoping there's not some twist where they're related or something, because it would explain a lot. Forgive me if I'm totally off base with this speculation and forgot some detail from the first season that contradicts it. precision posted:I'm just gonna throw this out there: What I would not loving GIVE to get Bryan Cranston involved in season 3 to play off Spacey. That could be absolutely gold. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 12:01
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Blazing Ownager posted:The creepy part of that scene, though, for me - and actually correct me if I'm wrong - but it gave the vibe Frank and Claire just can't be intimate without a third person proxy involved somehow. I suspect it's some combination of Claire's rape PTSD and Frank's sex-is-power mindset and bi status- that in order for them to trust and respect eachother, they won't have sex when it's just between the two of them, but with a third party, it changes the dynamic enough that they're both willing to participate.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:The creepy part of that scene, though, for me - and actually correct me if I'm wrong - but it gave the vibe Frank and Claire just can't be intimate without a third person proxy involved somehow. It is entirely possible that Frank is actually just gay. "But Zoe!" I hear people saying, but he explicitly tells us that, in that case, it was not about physical pleasure at all, but about power. It's not like gay men are allergic to women, lots of gay men have had sex with women. Also, Kinsey Scale, Frank may just be very far on the gay spectrum. So, you know, he loves Claire a lot and they're partners for life, but she just doesn't quite "do it" for him. Which also conveniently explains why he didn't care at all about her photographer boy toy. The parallels to the many rumors about real life American politicians are, of course, obvious.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:08
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precision posted:Why did Claire want to get rid of Christina so badly? I assumed it was because of her ties to Russo, and Claire didn't like being reminded that Francis killed such a genuinely good man, but then she started doing the "hey First Lady, she might be banging your husband" bit, which could have just been a way of weakening the President with at-home stress. It was manipulation. She makes hints that Christina, while competent and capable, has a reputation for sleeping with her bosses, referencing her and Peter Russo's relationship. Linda states that Christina is the one that travels with the president, allowing Linda to get poo poo done at Washington. This not only adds to the stress of the Walker's marriage, but also when Christina is let go, weakens Linda's influence on the administration.
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Feb 24, 2014 12:51
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wins.
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I just marathoned both seasons over the last several days. God drat that was quite a ride. Overall I think I liked season 1 better. Not necessarily because it was a better season, but because I could spend most of the season trying to guess exactly what Franks goal was. Obviously he wanted to increase his power, but there were several ways to do that, and the 'oh poo poo' moment when my stupid rear end finally figured out he was going for the vice presidency and how was what made me really love the show. As for season 2, well once you're the vice president there's really only one job promotion left. The only real question is whether he'd let Walker finish his own term or not. beefart posted:Also, as much as I hated Feng's cartoony villain status, I absolutely loved Frank's bait and switch when he had him deported to China and inevitably his death right after becoming president. I was hoping Frank would settle the score after the complete disrespect he got from Feng during their meeting out in the woods, and he certainly delivered. It was more than just tying up a loose end, Feng was a bargaining chip with the Chinese. The news report said President Underwood's first act was to have a quote "very productive" conversation with the Chinese, after which both parties agreed to pull their navies back, implying that the standoff is basically over. You can be sure he agreed to give back Feng as part of the deal. I'd bet that it was part of his plan even since getting the state department to bring Feng back in the first place.
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Feb 24, 2014 14:27
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