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Point of interest: Grafdigger's Cage does literal nothing versus Living End.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:05
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ScarletBrother posted:Point of interest: Grafdigger's Cage does literal nothing versus Living End. Which is why it sweeps so friggin hard against people who don't read how cards work 
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Mar 4, 2014 20:09
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ScarletBrother posted:Point of interest: Grafdigger's Cage does literal nothing versus Living End. However amusingly enough it hoses the poo poo out of genesis wave
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Mar 4, 2014 20:10
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ScarletBrother posted:Point of interest: Grafdigger's Cage does literal nothing versus Living End. Haha, gently caress that extremely weird wording on Living End. I have never played against the deck. Ok so then 3 thoughtseize to pull the cascade spells, race them, and remember to sac everything to ravager to get it back from living end.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:10
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Shavnir posted:However amusingly enough it hoses the poo poo out of genesis wave I think it's an okay card to have in the SB, I just didn't want jassi siding it in versus LE and then facepalming.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:11
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Thats why I took the time to post my "plan" I knew you guys would help me out.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:12
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L0cke17 posted:One of my good friends has been playing the deck for the last 2 years or so. This is his current list. He's top 8'd a starcity last year, and top-32'd Nashville a couple weeks ago with it. Its a great starting point. Cool, thanks. I've been mucking around with a few versions of the list and I think I might use this one with a few tweaks. I was originally going to put REBs/pyros mainboard since that's what they run now but I'm guessing that between it being merely a side event, it won't have a typical meta. I assume it would likely have a lot of players involved who will either use their affinity decks or cheaper legacy decks, like dredge. This deck looks like it can handle an unknown meta better but I still prefer the versions with snapcasters like the one Maxime Gilles used. I currently don't have porphyry nodes and might put in energy flux instead as a metagame call for robots. I do like the moat since it's been since it's been sitting around ever since I took apart my Enchantress deck.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:14
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jassi007 posted:I agree, but I honestly hate spell pierce. Anecdotal of course but it never seems to produce for me and my play style is go not wait. Whipflare has a place against tokens and bad decks which I expect to play a couple of due to the insane # of people going + I have no byes. As a GR-Tron player, you're really battling uphill. I would literally sideboard nothing and just aim for a heart-of-the-cards hand and aim to pull a T3 infect kill off a nexus. Resist the urge to sandbag creatures, because you absolutely need to win early. GR-Tron's easiest match-up is definitely affinity :|
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Mar 4, 2014 20:15
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jassi007 posted:Haha, gently caress that extremely weird wording on Living End. I have never played against the deck. Ok so then 3 thoughtseize to pull the cascade spells, race them, and remember to sac everything to ravager to get it back from living end. That's not a great plan IMO. The deck is Living End, Land, Cascade Spells, and a bunch of cyclers, a discard spell isn't going to do a lot when your opponent plans to cycle into their key spell as often as not. In my experience Spell Piercing the Living End is way way more dependable.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:17
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Mulletstation posted:As a GR-Tron player, you're really battling uphill. I would literally sideboard nothing and just aim for a heart-of-the-cards hand and aim to pull a T3 infect kill off a nexus. Resist the urge to sandbag creatures, because you absolutely need to win early. Ravager and Nexus blank almost all of Tron's plans against Affinity. The only way to lose as affinity is to draw 0 ravagers against 2 pyroclasms or draw blanks against a nut draw t3 Karn.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:18
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jassi007 posted:
You definitely want Spellskite versus Twin. I think Illness in the Ranks is too narrow. Torpor Orb hoses Twin just as well, and also shuts down Kitchen Finks. Also note that Spellskite has 4 toughness which survives Anger of the Gods, Bolt, and Nacatl. Have you considered Blood Moon? In matches where it's good, it's a savage beating. I think Whipflare and Spellpierce are your iffyest SB cards (if we discount Illness in the Ranks).
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Mar 4, 2014 20:19
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So I played my first ever sanctioned legacy event last night. It was the weekly Monday tournament at Card Kingdom in Seattle. After experiencing it I have to say it's probably the best regular tournament of any sort in the area. Decent prize & tourney structure, variety of decks, high level play, good judging and tons of regulars with great camaraderie, superb location of course as well. Very highly recommended. Anyways, I was not exactly set up for success but it was a great learning experience. Someone lent me manaless dredge and after exactly one goldfished game with myself it I was off to the races. Somehow I doubt any experience gained with this deck will transfer over to any other deck I could cobble together. Round 1, vs Reanimator. G1 he plays turn one hapless researcher, turn two brainstorm and another researcher, so my bridges are all dead for the rest of the game pretty much. He gets an Elesh Norn into the yard early but goes forever without finding a reanimation spell. I am still dealing with nerves over not understanding this deck and miss a nether spirit trigger or two, nothing big. I therapy him which he misdirections back at me and I should have named grave troll to get my best dredgers going, so lesson learned there. Eventually he casts exhume. I bring balustrade spy back but nothing really survives against elesh norn. G2 he plays turn one careful study, turn two reanimates Jin-Gitaxis, which isn't that bad as I can dump my hand. He then turn three Elesh comes out again and I scoop. Round 2 vs Fish G1 I win the roll and choose to draw which clues him in so he mulls a bit. Double Chancellor of the Annex is met by turn one cavern so he dodges that bullet. This game actually goes on for a bit as I can dredge a fair number of times and get the ichorids and shadows going. Name force with cabal therapy, find daze, daze on my dread return and eventually tnns do me in. G2 My one win of the tourney I finally get a decent number do somethings in the yard and finally start making a good board presence and dread return a balustrade which prompts the scoop. G3 Another multi Chancellor Multi Narcomoeba hand with only a dredge 3 that doesn't have enough time to get going. Round 3 vs Elves Can't beat scooze, don't see contagion game 2 and he combos off turn three. Overrall I think my hands weren't that representative of how the deck can do, but of course you can't really mulligan. Realizing you can activate phantasmagorian twice before resolving the first trigger was an eye opener too. Getting your triggers down is not too tough and you can do tricky things with your cyclers, especially stuff like end step street wraith dredging a bunch to set up your next upkeep. Dying with 20+ cards in the yard and no bridges kinda sucks. Without bridge I don't think it's possible to win frequently at all. Still had a great time!
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Mar 4, 2014 20:21
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Honestly, as a Living End player I can tell you the worst possible thing you can do to the deck is Remanding the Living End, stranding it in their hand. It feels so frustrating, it's not even funny.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:21
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Appreciate all the advice, so if I dropped whipflares for defense grids, and kept spell pierces, what matches are they good for? Basically combo decks right? I have never found spell pierce to be useful against a controlish deck, with 2 whole counterspells its not even worth trying to play a counter war (i've tried) I like Illness against twin because they aren't going to really expect an enchantment, its a 1 drop, and it is as effective against combo reliant variants as torpor orb. It also has gameplay against bw tokens, faeries, and maybe storm. I think it is effective enough as a one of to combine with other card packages for those decks to be worthwhile. Storm probably not because I doubt they go to an empty the warrens plan against affinity now that I think of it. I have considered blood moon, but it has two drawbacks for me. 1. it shuts off my manlands and they're a fairly important part of affinitys game. 2. its a 3 drop. I think if I was going to use a card akin to bloodmoon I would use Choke.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:24
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Spellpierce also hits all of the hate cards they would bring in against you.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:27
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As someone who plays Twin now, Illness doesn't bother me at all. I win most of my matches from something as simple as a couple Snapcasters. I don't look for the combo anymore basically ever, Twin is easily the card I scry to the bottom most. Respectfully, its an awful card and I would be extremely pleased to see it across the table from me. Twin these days is either a control deck, or a tempo deck that can occasionally win via combo, but its not central to the strategy anymore. Sometimes I board out 2-3 Twins. When I played lots of U/R Tempo Twin I won so many games where my opponent resolved a toporb orb and a Spellskite and still died because Pestermite and Vendillion Clqiue flew over them for lethal. ScarletBrother posted:Spellpierce also hits all of the hate cards they would bring in against you. Spell Pierce hits basically every card you dislike that isn't a creature. Its so good, even against control, because the pressure you're capable of putting on the table means that 1 countered mana-leak or path to exile can be all you need to close out a game. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 20:29
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I had a game last week where I cast Splinter Twin on a Snapcaster Mage. It was glorious. Yeah, Illness just stops the combo and they can just beat you/burn you to death anyway. Torpor Orb is just better.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:31
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Zoness posted:Ravager and Nexus blank almost all of Tron's plans against Affinity. The only way to lose as affinity is to draw 0 ravagers against 2 pyroclasms or draw blanks against a nut draw t3 Karn. Pyroclasm still kills ravager if there aren't other things to dump to it. Also not only do you have to dodge 4x pyroclasm, you have to dodge 3-4x oblivion stone. (I also run a platinum angel which is unstoppable in many affinity matches) But seriously I've played A LOT of games against robots, and win maybe 90% of the time.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:33
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Ok so valuable input so far SB 3 Thoughtseize 2 Defense Grid 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Wear // Tear 2 Spell Pierce 2 Spellskite 1 Torpor Orb That leaves me 1 spot. 1 whipflare, 1 dispatch, another torpor orb, a welding jar, a master of etherium, an ancient grudge, keep the illness in the ranks?
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Mar 4, 2014 20:34
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jassi007 posted:That leaves me 1 spot. 1 whipflare, 1 dispatch, another torpor orb, a welding jar, a master of etherium, an ancient grudge, keep the illness in the ranks?
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Mar 4, 2014 20:35
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I like the miser's Ancient Grudge personally, but then I am a sucker for that card. Edit: That said, Thrazidun is probably right.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:37
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Dismember can kill a lot of troublesome creatures you otherwise can't deal with. I've also used dispatch for similar reasons in the past. I'd run either of them long before Illness in the Ranks but that really seems to be your Jam, so gently caress it dude, run that poo poo.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:37
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jassi007 posted:Ok so valuable input so far I'm late on the Living End discussion, but Chalice of the Void at 0 and like someone above mentioned, Remand, stop Living End.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:37
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Boxn posted:I'm late on the Living End discussion, but Chalice of the Void at 0 and like someone above mentioned, Remand, stop Living End. Chalice of the Void is spicy, but setting it to 0 as an Affinity player makes so many of your cards dead draws.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:39
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Boxn posted:I'm late on the Living End discussion, but Chalice of the Void at 0 and like someone above mentioned, Remand, stop Living End. Holding up 1 blue is doable with affinity, if not entirely desirable. Holding back 2 mana for remand is not. Running chalices is not great for modern affinity, legacy its another story since you can chalice for 1 on t1. I'm not so scared of living end to run chalice just for it, when I can just run spell pierce and it is more versatile.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:40
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jassi007 posted:Holding up 1 blue is doable with affinity, if not entirely desirable. Holding back 2 mana for remand is not. Running chalices is not great for modern affinity, legacy its another story since you can chalice for 1 on t1. I'm not so scared of living end to run chalice just for it, when I can just run spell pierce and it is more versatile. I'm really a proponent of Spell Pierce. You can just randomly blow people out who aren't expecting it too. EDIT: I like 2nd Torpor Orb.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:41
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Stinky Pit posted:Dismember can kill a lot of troublesome creatures you otherwise can't deal with. I've also used dispatch for similar reasons in the past. I'd run either of them long before Illness in the Ranks but that really seems to be your Jam, so gently caress it dude, run that poo poo. It really isn't my jam, I just had reasoned myself into running it, but I recognize good points of why it isn't that great/other cards are better. I may just run a singleton dispatch or a 2nd torpor orb.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:41
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ScarletBrother posted:I'm really a proponent of Spell Pierce. You can just randomly blow people out who aren't expecting it too. Same, without sounding like a jerk, you should really consider some of the lines you've taken if Spell Pierce was a consistent disappointment for you, when I played affinity that card was one of my all-stars. I ran 3, I still have 3 in my Affinity Board.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:42
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ScarletBrother posted:Chalice of the Void is spicy, but setting it to 0 as an Affinity player makes so many of your cards dead draws. Ah gently caress I screwed up on that. Still an option for anyone else though. jassi007 posted:Holding up 1 blue is doable with affinity, if not entirely desirable. Holding back 2 mana for remand is not. Running chalices is not great for modern affinity, legacy its another story since you can chalice for 1 on t1. I'm not so scared of living end to run chalice just for it, when I can just run spell pierce and it is more versatile. In general a Chalice for 0 makes the entire plan of Living End dead, since it's CMC is 0. You don't need to chalice for one when facing Living End, but since you're Affinity it'll stop you too.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:44
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Mulletstation posted:Pyroclasm still kills ravager if there aren't other things to dump to it. Who the hell plays Ravager 'without things to dump' to it? Ravager literally never hits the board without enough artifacts on board to make it a 3/3. Oblivion Stone doesn't protect you from a Nexus kill. Please stop making comments on the matchup when you're doing things like playing platinum angel and hitting pyroclasms against ravagers that can't hit 3/3.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:45
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Fox of Stone posted:Cool, thanks. I've been mucking around with a few versions of the list and I think I might use this one with a few tweaks. I was originally going to put REBs/pyros mainboard since that's what they run now but I'm guessing that between it being merely a side event, it won't have a typical meta. I assume it would likely have a lot of players involved who will either use their affinity decks or cheaper legacy decks, like dredge. This deck looks like it can handle an unknown meta better but I still prefer the versions with snapcasters like the one Maxime Gilles used. I currently don't have porphyry nodes and might put in energy flux instead as a metagame call for robots. I do like the moat since it's been since it's been sitting around ever since I took apart my Enchantress deck. If you're worried about men and have no nodes, you can push one StP to the board, and drop a Clique, add 2 Snapping Men and run the 4th Terminus over Moat or something in the board. The nodes is just an amazing card, and single-handedly beats the True-Name decks/anything with Nimble Mongoose, which is actually kind of hard to beat for Miracles. I'm not a huge fan of Snapcaster, and the most I have ever run is one. It did let me entreat for three flashbacked once, but usually its Ashcoat Bear+Brainstorm.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:45
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Stinky Pit posted:Same, without sounding like a jerk, you should really consider some of the lines you've taken if Spell Pierce was a consistent disappointment for you, when I played affinity that card was one of my all-stars. I think perhaps I am/was playing to aggressive, or siding them in against the wrong decks. I admit up front sideboarding is something I am really not good at. I really appreciate all the feedback here. There is also the factor of sometimes your sideboard doesn't show up when you want it to. UWR is a deck I've sided it in against, and the results have basically been either they have another counter, or they have to much mana for it to matter (came out to late) I've played twin a couple times, but all them were all-in twin variants and they basically rolled over to being unable to deal with a quick etched champion or did not have a counter when they tried to combo, and I got them with a blast.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:45
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If you have a board presence already, you are probably winning. Holding that Spell Pierce with U open will usually just win for you.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:47
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No worries I am by no means criticizing. Affinity is a demanding deck, your hand often presents you with multiple lines and choosing the right one is very difficult, the deck has a razor thin line of "not going deep enough" and "begging for a blowout" that's far less forgiving than other aggro decks.
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Mar 4, 2014 20:48
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jassi007 posted:It really isn't my jam, I just had reasoned myself into running it, but I recognize good points of why it isn't that great/other cards are better. I may just run a singleton dispatch or a 2nd torpor orb. Can't you just use tormod's crypt
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Mar 4, 2014 20:58
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Zoness posted:Who the hell plays Ravager 'without things to dump' to it? Ravager literally never hits the board without enough artifacts on board to make it a 3/3. Oblivion Stone doesn't protect you from a Nexus kill. A lot of people are forced to play ravager early, because otherwise like you mentioned, T3 karn isn't out of the question, and the longer the more likely tron gets put together. Also even 1 pyroclasm prior to ravager hoses ravager, so you don't need '2' pyroclasms at all to stop it. Platinum angel has been amazing in the deck and has saved me a ton from infect, burn, elves, and living end and I think it's a cool piece in GR-tron. It also blocks inkmoth nexus and buys time to get karn out. I appreciate the hostile reply though.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:01
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What does that mean 'play ravager early' in a deck that dumps its hand turn 1 and 2.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:07
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I typically see ravager on their T2, but if I'm going first and see a hand dump on their T1 I'm immediately pyroclasm'ing. That's what I mean 'early'. I think Zoness is thinking of a situation where Ravager is held to T3 or T4, which I rarely see.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:11
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Mulletstation posted:A lot of people are forced to play ravager early, because otherwise like you mentioned, T3 karn isn't out of the question, and the longer the more likely tron gets put together. Also even 1 pyroclasm prior to ravager hoses ravager, so you don't need '2' pyroclasms at all to stop it. Show me the hands where affinity can't play a ravager with at least two other artifacts in play and I'll believe you but otherwise you're living in magic christmas land where all your affinity opponents are mouthdroolers and you're just making stuff up that doesn't represent a matchup accurately at all. There's no reason to commit a ravager to the board if you don't have material to sacrifice to it and keeping a hand with ravager but not two other artifacts isn't a thing in any matchup that affinity gets. I'm convinced that you shouldn't be commenting on the matchup not out of hostility but because you've described situations where the affinity player is egregiously misplaying, like, not even missing critical lines but just completely piloting the deck without thinking about how its cards interact. I've described the scenarios where Affinity loses to tron with reasonably competent - not perfect - play and those come up around 45% of the time at best. There's no way the matchup is 90% in Tron's favor, or even above 50%. Mulletstation posted:I typically see ravager on their T2, but if I'm going first and see a hand dump on their T1 I'm immediately pyroclasm'ing. That's what I mean 'early'. I think Zoness is thinking of a situation where Ravager is held to T3 or T4, which I rarely see. Any average hand with a Ravager in it can play it T2 with 2 other artifacts in play, which blanks Pyroclasm. Also, the only way a hand dump is netting better than a 2-for-1 off a pyroclasm with Tron on the play is if they're dumping multiple ornithopters and memnites, which is also the wrong play without a plating already in play because there isn't significant tempo gain. Zoness fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 21:11
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Luckily, Tron numbers should be down since their free wins versus Jund are also down.
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Mar 4, 2014 21:12
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