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I actually don't think it is. For one it looks like it is in Mance's camp which, although it might change, is not where she dies. It doesn't look exactly like her and the coat is different then the very first shot in that video which is definitely her. Edit: Was that the Magnar of Thenn with the big axe in that battle? lifts cats over head fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 16:24
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Fragmented posted:I always find myself wondering what would have happened if Ned took Renly's offer to help take the castle that night. There would still be civil war between Renly and Stannis. I assume Ned would support Stannis and still get murdered in Kings Landing. He was so hosed from day one. It would be fascinating to see what happens, that's for sure. These chapters were my favorite to read about from the Race for the Iron Throne blog: Ned 13 Ned 14 Especially the What If bits, because it really gets into the whole dynamic of Perceived vs. Actual power that went on during the middle ages.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:30
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Max posted:I actually haven't had a problem with that decision, because it was consistent with the way his character was written. His decision to tell Cersie isn't logical, but he hasn't always been a logical character. Not saying it was illogical, just boneheaded. Ned strikes me as the type of guy who is surprised that the bully took off with his bike after he let him ride it for just a quick trip around the block.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:51
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Alliser Thorne vs Tormund battle, that's interesting. If either one gets killed then that's a pretty big change. Also Marshall says that they have two battles going on at the same time (one on either side of the wall), but I dunno if he just means filming-wise or that they actually take place simultaneously on the show. Certainly the one on the Castle Black side looks like it's taking place at night and the one on the North side looks like it's during the day.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:52
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I hope they keep Dany's line about Oznak, the Champion of Meereen (paraphrased) Barristan: You won't be able to kill every single person who rises in rebellion against you, Your Grace. Dany: No, but it would please me to see this one die. Shame it'll be Daario instead of Belwas but I have faith they'll make it cool.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:56
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http://io9.com/tons-of-details-on-game-of-thrones-including-whats-no-1550097800 New bits from S4 courtesy of io9, including this saucy number quote:Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime have a "very dark encounter," says Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, and Cersei spurns Jaime's advances. casket loving is a go. 
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Mar 24, 2014 17:15
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ruddiger posted:casket loving is a go. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 24, 2014 |
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Mar 24, 2014 17:18
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Doltos posted:Not saying it was illogical, just boneheaded. Since it's Ned Stark we're talking about, there's an easy explanation in "he did it because it was honorable", and that's what I was going with as I read. But when I had time to think about it, I realized that didn't hold up. We see people who sent their bastards to be raised by another family, or just provided money to help raise them, or legitimized them, or kept them secret and then suddenly acknowleged them, and all of those options seem equally okay to everybody. It was actually a Sansa chapter that finally knocked me into seeing it, because Littlefinger trots Sansa out to meet a room full of people who hate his guts and are half a step away from open revolt against him, and their reaction is "oh you had a bastard daughter all this time? haha whatever". So, okay, if Catelyn wanted Jon gone, and sending him away wouldn't have been dishonorable, why wouldn't Ned just do it? It's still got to be a matter of honor, there's no other reason that would work with Ned's character. What flashes into Ned's mind when he thinks about Jon? "Promise me, Ned". Okay, upholding a promise to his dying sister is definitely a reason why Ned would act against his own interests and anger his beloved wife. But why would Lyanna have made Ned swear to raise Jon at Winterfell and never talk to anyone about his mother... oh. Oh. And then, armed with what I thought was a crackpot theory that might just hold up, I Googled it to see if anyone else had come up with that before me and found out it was the prevailing theory and there was a ton of poo poo I'd missed in support of it. So, to sum up: Lyanna made Ned promise to claim Jon as his bastard son, raise him at Winterfell, and never tell anyone who his real parents were. And Ned keeps his oaths.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:31
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Yeah, it makes him the easiest character to read in the series, because his motivation is almost always "Honor."
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Mar 24, 2014 17:37
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Max posted:Yeah, it makes him the easiest character to read in the series, because his motivation is almost always "Honor." He's actually quite a complex character. I think the whole reason he told Cersei about his plans was because he underestimated and undervalued a woman's intelligence in general. It wasn't explicitly stated but definitely implied. His hold up with honor also seems to stem from him being stuck in the past. The era prior to Roberts Rebellion doesn't strike me the same as the one we're experiencing now. There were more noble knights and evil knights running around who made their intentions clear and avoided underhanded plotting. He was killed because he couldn't keep up with present day court life. All of that seems like a character fault. CapnAndy posted:So, to sum up: Lyanna made Ned promise to claim Jon as his bastard son, raise him at Winterfell, and never tell anyone who his real parents were. And Ned keeps his oaths. Makes me wonder why Lyanna made her 'kidnapping' a secret then. I suppose Aegon got everybody so incensed that any letter writing home saying "Actually pretty happy dad, gonna stay here and make some babies with this Targaeryan studmuffin" would be discounted. That would be an interesting world to explore, one where Rhaegar kills Robert, Lyanna and him declare their love for each other, Aegon eventually dies, and the south and north are now together on this shaky truce.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:45
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Personally I think Ned talked to Cersei because he was a big dumbass idiot. But that's just me.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:47
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Doltos posted:Makes me wonder why Lyanna made her 'kidnapping' a secret then. I suppose Aegon got everybody so incensed that any letter writing home saying "Actually pretty happy dad, gonna stay here and make some babies with this Targaeryan studmuffin" would be discounted. That would be an interesting world to explore, one where Rhaegar kills Robert, Lyanna and him declare their love for each other, Aegon eventually dies, and the south and north are now together on this shaky truce.
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Mar 24, 2014 17:55
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Lovechop posted:Personally I think Ned talked to Cersei because he was a big dumbass idiot. But that's just me. He gave Cersei the benefit of the doubt pure and simple. He didn't know that she was complicit in having Bran pushed out the window, and didn't know that she was a sociopathic backstabber. I like the theory that Ned is a guy suffering from post-traumatic stress and, as a result, tries to take the peaceful rout whenever possible. He didn't want to be the one to start a civil war in king's landing and hoped that Cersei would feel the same, since she seemed like someone who really wanted to protect her children.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:06
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Gianthogweed posted:He gave Cersei the benefit of the doubt pure and simple. He didn't know that she was complicit in having Bran pushed out the window, and didn't know that she was a sociopathic backstabber. I like the theory that Ned is a guy suffering from post-traumatic stress and, as a result, tries to take the peaceful rout whenever possible. He didn't want to be the one to start a civil war in king's landing and hoped that Cersei would feel the same, since she seemed like someone who really wanted to protect her children. And man got turned into a pez dispenser for it. Let this be a lesson to us all.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:11
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Did this article spoil the purple wedding by quoting Lady Olenna? Hard for me to be objective on potential spoilers for the uninitiated but talking about Joffrey's wedding and "killing a man on his wedding day" seems like a pretty big hint.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:12
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It's really subtle to put that quote in right alongside the description of the bird pie from the wedding, but yes, they probably intended to post spoilers in an article called "Morning Spoilers" that ends its opening paragraph with "Spoilers now!"
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Mar 24, 2014 18:25
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Hoopaloops posted:Did this article spoil the purple wedding by quoting Lady Olenna? Hard for me to be objective on potential spoilers for the uninitiated but talking about Joffrey's wedding and "killing a man on his wedding day" seems like a pretty big hint. It says "Killing a man at a wedding." Not on his wedding day.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:28
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It also has a double meaning that needs context to be fully understood. quote:However, there's no scene where someone rides on a pig, because that would be cruelty to animals. 
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Mar 24, 2014 18:30
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Gianthogweed posted:He gave Cersei the benefit of the doubt pure and simple. He didn't know that she was complicit in having Bran pushed out the window, and didn't know that she was a sociopathic backstabber. I like the theory that Ned is a guy suffering from post-traumatic stress and, as a result, tries to take the peaceful rout whenever possible. He didn't want to be the one to start a civil war in king's landing and hoped that Cersei would feel the same, since she seemed like someone who really wanted to protect her children. Ned definitely knew Bran fell as a result of discovering Jaime and Cersei's incest. He asks her in the godswood and she confirms his suspicion.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:31
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I think Ned was profoundly effected by the deaths of Aegon and Rhaella. He thinks about how their bloody remains were shown to Robert when they argue about killing Dany. He knew if Robert found out he would kill Cersei and slaughter the children, something he couldn't bear to have on his conscience. He also knew if anyone ever found out about Jon that he would murdered as well.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:39
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Irish Joe posted:It also has a double meaning that needs context to be fully understood. loving PETA keeping us from the glorious sport of pig riding. Your Gay Uncle posted:I think Ned was profoundly effected by the deaths of Aegon and Rhaella. He thinks about how their bloody remains were shown to Robert when they argue about killing Dany. He knew if Robert found out he would kill Cersei and slaughter the children, something he couldn't bear to have on his conscience. He also knew if anyone ever found out about Jon that he would murdered as well. True, but that's also infuriating. The kingdom would be arguably better with Robert ruling it without Cersei's presence. The North would be listened to more because of the Ned Hand of the King connection, they'd concentrate their efforts on the white walkers, and no Lannister presence probably means Ned could convince Rob to not poison Dany or Jon. The Starks just make so many bad decisions that I'm kinda happy their house is getting wiped out.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:43
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Joe, leave the unsullied thread alone.  Irish Joe posted:It'll be great when season 7 rolls around and Joffrey is still on the throne because he's the only one who didn't get swallowed up by petty scheming and house loyalties, and was the only ruler not deluded by pretensions of honor, divine right or magic prophesy.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:52
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So have any fansites/official sources posted that full chapter anywhere yet? Even if I wanted to read it on a smartphone apparently I can't because British eyes must not see this sacred app.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:54
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Hoopaloops posted:Did this article spoil the purple wedding by quoting Lady Olenna? Hard for me to be objective on potential spoilers for the uninitiated but talking about Joffrey's wedding and "killing a man on his wedding day" seems like a pretty big hint. Huh. What's funny is that the original line seems actually honest.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:55
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I don't really understand why so many people want all the characters to be uber-pragmatic sociopaths. Letting Robert slaughter Cersei and her children may have been the most pragmatic move, but not doing it because he finds it morally repugnant doesn't make Ned a total idiot who totally deserved to die and have his family destroyed and scattered to the winds. Same with Robb trying to preserve Jeyne Westerling's honor or trusting Theon. These were dumb, emotional moves but it doesn't make them horrible people who deserved the horrid fates they had.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:56
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Steve2911 posted:So have any fansites/official sources posted that full chapter anywhere yet? Even if I wanted to read it on a smartphone apparently I can't because British eyes must not see this sacred app. I can't get it either, and I'm in America.  I hope someone posts it soon. I'm going to be lined up at 11:00pm waiting for the midnight release of TWOW. Throw me a bone, GRRM.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:57
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Beeez posted:I don't really understand why so many people want all the characters to be uber-pragmatic sociopaths. Letting Robert slaughter Cersei and her children may have been the most pragmatic move, but not doing it because he finds it morally repugnant doesn't make Ned a total idiot who totally deserved to die and have his family destroyed and scattered to the winds. Same with Robb trying to preserve Jeyne Westerling's honor or trusting Theon. These were dumb, emotional moves but it doesn't make them horrible people who deserved the horrid fates they had. It's sociopathic to let someone kill a person who is actively scheming to overthrow the kingdom, pushed your son off a tower and crippled him, and installed a path of hereditary successors born from Brother/Sister incest?
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Mar 24, 2014 19:01
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Beeez posted:I don't really understand why so many people want all the characters to be uber-pragmatic sociopaths. Letting Robert slaughter Cersei and her children may have been the most pragmatic move, but not doing it because he finds it morally repugnant doesn't make Ned a total idiot who totally deserved to die and have his family destroyed and scattered to the winds. Same with Robb trying to preserve Jeyne Westerling's honor or trusting Theon. These were dumb, emotional moves but it doesn't make them horrible people who deserved the horrid fates they had. I blame video games. No seriously.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:02
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Doltos posted:He's actually quite a complex character. I think the whole reason he told Cersei about his plans was because he underestimated and undervalued a woman's intelligence in general. It wasn't explicitly stated but definitely implied. I'm sorry, I didn't word that correctly. I agree that he is a very complex character, but when I said easy to read I meant that it's easy to figure out his motivations because he isn't constantly scheming and usually doesn't lie about what he is doing. Lyanna eloping with Rhaegar was going to cause a war one way or another. Either she was kidnapped by the Targs and the North declares against the Iron Throne, or they actually admit that Rhaegar took her as his new lover, and you've opened up a whole other jar of problems with Dorne, who historically was the only region to successfully defy the Targ dynasty. Even if they keep a very shaky truce going with everyone, any baby made from that union would pretty much be marked for death by Dornish assassins, since the baby would have a claim to the throne.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:03
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Doltos posted:It's sociopathic to let someone kill a person who is actively scheming to overthrow the kingdom, pushed your son off a tower and crippled him, and installed a path of hereditary successors born from Brother/Sister incest? It's morally repugnant to let someone kill Tommen and Myrcella just because their parents are brother and sister. Those kids didn't do anything wrong.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:13
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Another featurette, this time about weapons and fighting. They actually built one of those catapults you could see in Dany's scenes in the trailer.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-28xunfJAk0
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Mar 24, 2014 19:17
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:It's morally repugnant to let someone kill Tommen and Myrcella just because their parents are brother and sister. Those kids didn't do anything wrong. Neither did a host of other children who got killed or had their parents killed thanks to Ned letting Cersei stay in power.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:23
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escape artist posted:Joe, leave the unsullied thread alone. Xealot posted:The more likely scenario, I imagine, is that Margaery will be a doting and attentive wife until such time that she has a son, and then she or someone else affiliated with the Tyrells will finally kill Joffrey because he's useless after that point. Unless Tywin can do something about it, I guess. Or Cersei.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:26
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Doltos posted:Neither did a host of other children who got killed or had their parents killed thanks to Ned letting Cersei stay in power. He could hardly have known how bad things were going to get... He genuinely thought she'd grab the kids and run, troubling no one. He didn't intend for her to stay in power, only to save innocent lives. As far as he knew that would be the end of it. If he'd known she had Lancel ready to kill Robert at a moment's notice, he probably would have taken a different course.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:28
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The pragmatic move for Ned after finding out that Cersei's children were products of incest would have been to do nothing. Also the pragmatic move would have been not to investigate the matter in the first place.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:29
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CapnAndy posted:That Xealot kid is sharp, though. I remember thinking after I found Olena was responsible Joffreys death: would not have been smarter to have waited until after the wedding?
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Mar 24, 2014 19:33
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Zamboni Jesus posted:The pragmatic move for Ned after finding out that Cersei's children were products of incest would have been to do nothing. Also the pragmatic move would have been not to investigate the matter in the first place. He was investigating Jon Arryn's death.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:34
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Elias_Maluco posted:I remember thinking after I found Olena was responsible Joffreys death: would not have been smarter to have waited until after the wedding? No, it doesn't matter. Olenna is the god mother of the second most powerful faction in Westeros. No one would accuse her and if they did the worst that would happen is that the Reach would bowl over the Lannisters once harvest season ended and winter started.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:38
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Drunkboxer posted:He was investigating Jon Arryn's death. Yeah and he found enough to make it pretty clear what all had taken place fairly quickly, he should have stopped there
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Mar 24, 2014 19:40
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Elias_Maluco posted:I remember thinking after I found Olena was responsible Joffreys death: would not have been smarter to have waited until after the wedding? If Joffrey was just some guy they didn't need and only needed his heir it would have been true, but in Joff's case they considered Joffrey himself to be a toxic asset they'd rather get rid off as soon as possible. Allowing Joff to bed Marge means at least a few more month until they know for certain she's pregnant, and they'd still have to wait until she completes her term as there's always the possibility of a miscarriage, and there's always the risk of the child dying in its infancy or even early childhood. During all this time there's both the possibility of Joff or Loras doing something stupid and the Lannisters becoming less reliant upon house Tyrell. Of course, if they allow Joff to consummate the marriage they can't have Marge wed Tommen afterwards either.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:42
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