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Sexgun Rasputin posted:why doesn't bioware fire all the poo poo tier tumblr fanfic writers they have on staff and replace them with actual writers? boggles the mind. good writing is sadly too much for most people
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Mar 29, 2014 05:55
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Sexgun Rasputin posted:why doesn't bioware fire all the poo poo tier tumblr fanfic writers they have on staff and replace them with actual writers? boggles the mind. The thing is Bioware actually has good writers(kind of.) It's just that they are both good and bad from scene to scene. There is no happy medium. It's either like 'woah Mordin is awesome and that was a great reveal on Darth Revan' or it's them having Shepard cure a rape/torture victim with his penis and creating Merrill(Who clearly has some kind of brain damage; given how little she manages to learn about basic life over a 7 year period.) I think what they really need is someone with good taste in charge of overseeing all the writing, with enough power to slap down all the bad ideas and forcibly tie the narrative together correctly and coherently. I guess what I'm saying is that it's really just David Gaider that needs firing, or at least demoting.
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Mar 29, 2014 05:56
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Generic American posted:Or is this thread just kicking into another "haha, Bioware sucks, am I right" phase? Look at the rating of this thread, which was bad even when we only knew the name of the new game. I think you have your answer here.
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Mar 29, 2014 07:31
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omg chael crash posted:I just read the first issue of the Dragon Age comic "The Silent Grove" and it was god awful. I'm guess they're all this bad? That's actually probably the best one of the lot.
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Mar 29, 2014 08:03
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Generic American posted:Am I the weird one here? Because other than the stuff specifically about the endings which isn't even unique to Bioware (seriously, "[x number of] endings" is such blatant marketing speak that I've never taken it seriously, whether we're talking The Witcher or Fallout), this is nowhere near the standard that they set during the Dragon Age II pre-release. It's pretty bland listing of cool features that might or might not work or even matter, and I don't see anything that's really worth mocking yet unless you really try to stretch things. People in the thread don't SEEM to be ripping on the graphics or gameplay too hard, and you'd have to be pretty naive to not suspect that the game will contain at least some sub-par writing. As the last two Bioware titles were marred by unnecessary (and frankly bizarre) editorial interference and at the same time plagued with patches of awful, pandering bullshit that should have been edited out, I feel that skepticism is the appropriate attitude for Bioware games going forward, or at least until they show that they can and want to exercise quality control in their writing.
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Mar 29, 2014 08:59
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Stroth posted:That's actually probably the best one of the lot. Yeeeesh.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:25
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the poor rating of this thread is due to pick trolling it for months
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Mar 29, 2014 10:34
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So, Dragon Age. I liked Origins a lot, and never could really got into DA2. Internet later told me that was because that game was Spawn of Satan but whatevs. Could someone who followed this thread since the beginning tell me in short will DA:I be more like the first one, or the second one?
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Mar 29, 2014 10:49
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Disco Infiva posted:So, Dragon Age. I liked Origins a lot, and never could really got into DA2. Internet later told me that was because that game was Spawn of Satan but whatevs. Could someone who followed this thread since the beginning tell me in short will DA:I be more like the first one, or the second one? We just don't know enough to answer that. The only thing we know for sure is that the graphics will be a big improvement unless all screenshots and gameplay videos were faked.
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Mar 29, 2014 10:59
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I was a big fan of Origins when it was released and hated the demo of Dragon Age 2 with a passion. I got the sequel for free 2 years ago but didn't touch it due to my experience with the demo and the shitfest on the internet. Recently got a new computer and being slightly interested about DA:I made me finally play the drat game. Played it from start to finish in under a week and I didn't hate the experience, it was in the end acceptable if somewhat really rushed. I guess I just managed to get over the fact that Bioware messed up their chance to ignite a fresh start for the strategic RPG genre. Since Pillars of Eternity is on its way I can accept Dragon Age for what it is.
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Mar 29, 2014 11:01
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Promethium posted:The way that RPGs handle epilogues is getting old at this point. It was never really the right format: the "what happened next" slideshow is appropriate for a documentary, not for a game with sequel hooks. That slide saying Alistair became a wise and beloved king in vague terms is especially ironic given what inspired the setting. It's not experienced firsthand, but Xenoblade does a good job of showing what happened in the world post-game with it's ending.
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Mar 29, 2014 12:56
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I take it more as half of the writers having to switch around their expertise or do more then intentioned, like how most of the dialog/character writers took part in the plot of Mass Effect 3. Hell Dragon Age 2 had some Lovecraft kirkwall lore back-story that had no plot relevance at all.
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Mar 29, 2014 13:22
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SirDrone posted:I take it more as half of the writers having to switch around their expertise or do more then intentioned, like how most of the dialog/character writers took part in the plot of Mass Effect 3. Hell Dragon Age 2 had some Lovecraft kirkwall lore back-story that had no plot relevance at all.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:08
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Disco Infiva posted:So, Dragon Age. I liked Origins a lot, and never could really got into DA2. Internet later told me that was because that game was Spawn of Satan but whatevs. Could someone who followed this thread since the beginning tell me in short will DA:I be more like the first one, or the second one? I get the impression that it won't be like either, really. It certainly seems to be a lot bigger than DA2 and less railroady than DAO. Like, it seems like there will be a lot to do in it and it takes place over the whole continent, so there should be a lot of variety in locales. A developer or somebody said that the individual environments will be 3x (or something) the size of the Kocari Wilds in the first one. That's not too bad. Bioware is staffed with liars, so who knows.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:56
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating, but DA:I at the very least seems to be a fully-assed game rather than DA2's quarter-assed bundle of half finished and underdeveloped scraps. I wouldn't expect much past that, but it does seem like they're at least taking a shot at making an actually good game again.
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Mar 29, 2014 20:39
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As long as every dungeon isn't a mirrored dupe of every other dungeon it will be much, much better than DA2.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:21
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Were the dungeons even mirrored?
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Mar 29, 2014 21:29
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Yeah there were several instances of the same dungeon except some paths were blocked off (literally a slab of marble blocking everything past a doorsill) or you go through the same dungeon backwards. I liked the art design though, except for the fact you couldn't make a black guy.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:39
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Maybe I'd be excited for this game if I had the memory of a gnat and couldn't recall how every other recent Bioware product has ended up. I mean yeah it sounds cool from what they are saying but its not like they haven't lied about features in the past guys.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:18
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Internet Kraken posted:Maybe I'd be excited for this game if I had the memory of a gnat and couldn't recall how every other recent Bioware product has ended up. It's pretty and the gameplay looks like it's moving in the right direction, but the devs are absolute crap at talking up their characters. Even their characters I kind of like sound completely awful when Bioware devs talk about them. They seem hidebound to reduce everyone to some kind of obnoxious soundbite.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:48
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Well, that's mainly DA2, right? I never played their Star Wars MMO so I cannot say anything about it, but what did they advertise for ME3 that they did not deliver? I cannot really remember. And they did promise awesome multi-player, and we got awesome multi-player! I'm cautiously optimistic, I doubt they will outright lie about features planned considering how long it was in production, in contrast to the bad rush job they did with DA2. But the basic approach remains not to preorder the game and wait for others to confirm if it is good or bad.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:48
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Torrannor posted:but what did they advertise for ME3 that they did not deliver? "You wont just be able to click a button and pick ending A, B, or C, it will be a culmination of your choices through the trilogy."
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Mar 29, 2014 23:49
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Mass Effect 3 was fine gameplay wise for the most part, but the plot was absolutely horrid and hosed up everything they had done over the trilogy. Fucks sake they actually had to add an epilogue to the game because they were too lazy to do it in the first place.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:59
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Internet Kraken posted:Maybe I'd be excited for this game if I had the memory of a gnat and couldn't recall how every other recent Bioware product has ended up. I don't know what this means for the quality of the game, but Inquisition has the feel of a real make-or-break for BioWare. DA2 sold decently but fell off very quickly, and ME3 sold well but lost out on a lot of DLC money due to the need to release the Extended Cut. Right now they're in a weird spot where their reputation as a studio that generally puts out a quality product has taken a number of well-deserved hits. I think this is why they're generally being very careful with the information they release and how they manage expectations. Look at how quickly they clarified the 40 endings thing. That Hudson quote about not having an "A, B, or C" ending was p. much a straight-up lie and he said it something like a week before release. Pattonesque fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 00:00
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Leelee posted:In response to the "40 possible endings": It's cool that they decided to clarify what they meant here. These guys have to walk on loving pins and needles with you guys.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:39
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Spikeguy posted:It's cool that they decided to clarify what they meant here. These guys have to walk on loving pins and needles with you guys. That's because DA2 was infamous for its false advertising and sycophantic reviews, they bloody well should be walking on pins and needles after they tried to sell that to us.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:43
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Spikeguy posted:It's cool that they decided to clarify what they meant here. These guys have to walk on loving pins and needles with you guys. I generally agree with what you're saying, but Bioware shouldn't get a pass. Those chucklefucks have put out three games in sequence that were lovely for one reason or another. The hilarity that led up to DA2's release with developer sperging doesn't inspire much confidence.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:44
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Spikeguy posted:It's cool that they decided to clarify what they meant here. These guys have to walk on loving pins and needles with you guys.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:50
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Spikeguy posted:It's cool that they decided to clarify what they meant here. These guys have to walk on loving pins and needles with you guys. Yeah how dare people be cautious after Bioware has blatantly lied about features in their games repeatedly. I'm perfectly willing to accept that this game could be good. If it really is good, I'll buy it since I enjoyed DA:O. However, I'm not trusting Bioware after being burned by them over and over. When they promise crazy, innovative features how am I supposed to tell if its actually true or just another lie before the game actually comes out?
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Mar 30, 2014 01:06
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Torrannor posted:Well, that's mainly DA2, right? I never played their Star Wars MMO so I cannot say anything about it, but what did they advertise for ME3 that they did not deliver? I cannot really remember. And they did promise awesome multi-player, and we got awesome multi-player! Star Wars: The Old Republic was interesting in that the story was extremely strong in my opinion, particularly for an MMO, but the gameplay was weak and never really strayed from "Fetch quests, kill quests, gather quests" basic MMO formula. It's gotten better in that regard since launch but a large number of people voted with their wallets over a lack of end-game stuff to do at launch. This is in part because Bioware expected people to take their time while leveling and enjoy the story, but since these are MMO players most of them took the quickest and easiest route to level-cap by just exploiting PvP leveling speed or in some cases even using exploits to get to cap. So a bunch of people had like 4 level capped characters 2 days after launch and lamented the lack of endgame content compared to other games like WoW when Bioware expected people to level slower and go through multiple class storylines before they delivered their scheduled end-game content additions in a couple of months after launch. By the time the planned end-game content was patched in the hardcore MMO crowd had all quit. So now Bioware can't afford to expand on the class storylines (in my opinion by far the game's best feature) due to layoffs and the game going free to play, which blows rear end because all the class storylines end with hooks for the next chapter that will never come. The game still has a dedicated playerbase and is still reasonably profitable so it'll keep going for a while yet, but it is unlikely to ever be what it could've been had Bioware not misunderstood the nature of MMO players (who are largely a bunch of min-maxing nerds who care more about getting better items than everyone else than plot or substance.)
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Mar 30, 2014 01:16
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Internet Kraken posted:When they promise crazy, innovative features how am I supposed to tell if its actually true or just another lie before the game actually comes out? Buy it at release anyway, vigorously defend it for a week before deciding it's a stinking turd and swearing you'll never be duped again. It's the Goon way.
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Mar 30, 2014 01:36
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Buy it at release anyway, vigorously defend it for a week before deciding it's a stinking turd and swearing you'll never be duped again. It's the Goon way. I held back on buying Mass Effect 3 on release because I had a bad feeling about it. I heard about how much the endings sucked, and felt vindicated. But no, even knowing there was something seriously wrong with the game, I bought it. I loved Mass Effect 2, and hey maybe the ending sucks but it can't be that bad right? Right? 
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Mar 30, 2014 04:06
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Internet Kraken posted:I held back on buying Mass Effect 3 on release because I had a bad feeling about it. I heard about how much the endings sucked, and felt vindicated. I went in on ME 3 even after dragon age 2 because it seems like bioware realized they hosed up by rushing it out. I had hoped that the fact that they said that leaked ME 3 script was really old combine with them pushing it back months meant that they learned their lesson.
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Mar 30, 2014 04:20
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Muchas gracias for all the replies seņor/itas, I will definitely watch as more info unfolds about DA:I. 
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Mar 30, 2014 05:58
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Oddly enough the fact that DA 2 was a massive failure that I didn't care about at all might end up saving DA:I for me. Its nearly impossible for it to suffer from the character problems that made me hate Mass Effect 3. I really liked Mass Effect 1 and LOVED Mass Effect 2. One of my favorite games ever, mainly because it had such an enjoyable cast of characters. There were plots built around these characters through both games that were supposed to reach their conclusion in the third installment. Part of the appeal of the series too me was bonding with these characters and seeing how their stories pan out. Then Mass Effect 3 comes along and it barely matters what you did. Nearly everything is the same. Every characters story is basically identical across playthroughs unless you got them killed in Mass Effect 2. On top of there being no payoff for all that build up, almost every character's plot thread ends in a terrible and unsatisfying way. Basically, Mass Effect 3 took nearly everything I liked about the first two games and destroyed them. It retroactively ruined the entire series for me because I now know how these characters stories will end, and they all suck. But DA:I doesn't have focus nearly as much on returning characters. Off the top of my head, Varric and Morrigan are the only returning ones that will play any significant role. Varric was from DA 2 so I have zero attachment to him. I could easily see them loving up Morrigan, but she isn't a party member and won't be around all the time so it couldn't be that bad*. Furthermore, the conflict in DA:I is barely tied to the one in DA:O. The lack of connection between the games means there is less chance for Bioware to gently caress up stuff from them. This could be a standalone game and work just fine. Basically, DA:I is just another Bioware game to me and not the conclusion to an epic trilogy I'd been following for years. This actually makes it better since I have zero confidence in them to do a trilogy properly anymore. *I'll probably end up eating this words when Morrigan is involved in the dumbest conflict ever.
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Mar 30, 2014 06:21
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Really the one plot thing I'm concerned about is how heavyhanded they're going to play all the prior game character references. Bioware has a godawful history at this poo poo, the worst being Mass Effect 3, where every single former companion was in the middle of some unsolvable conflict and- oh man what do you know its Shephard I bet he can bail me out of this one, and their interactions (as unwieldy as they are) have no ramifications on the game over than a loving hologram conversation with the ones who don't die at the end of their plot arcs. The same thing happened in Dragon Age 2 except its slightly less disorienting because there's only like 8 countries in Thedas (2 1/2 that you actually ever go to throughout the series) as opposed to THE ENTIRE loving UNIVERSE in Mass Effect 3, with flimsy pretenses for their meetups withstanding. Also I really doubt they're going to do some cop out poo poo by hiding the faces of Hawke and the Warden in their inevitable confrontations. Bioware has had game to game face transposition since Mass Effect 1 to 2, and even had that function between Mass Effect 1 and 3 saves, and the face consistency was surprisingly accurate. steakmancer fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 30, 2014 06:40
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Internet Kraken posted:Oddly enough the fact that DA 2 was a massive failure that I didn't care about at all might end up saving DA:I for me. Its nearly impossible for it to suffer from the character problems that made me hate Mass Effect 3. This actually ended up saving ME3 for me. I loved ME2 but at the same time there was a *lot* of stupid poo poo in that game. Accepting that made it a little easier to take what happened in ME3.
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Mar 30, 2014 07:26
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StashAugustine posted:This actually ended up saving ME3 for me. I loved ME2 but at the same time there was a *lot* of stupid poo poo in that game. Accepting that made it a little easier to take what happened in ME3. I'd argue the stupid poo poo in Mass Effect 2 was tied to the main plot. The good parts of Mass Effect 2 were related to the characters, and a bunch of them get the short end of the stick in Mass Effect 3. Legion was my favorite character in the series in Mass Effect 3 completely ruins not only him but every plot thread related to him. It was painful to see such an interesting character fall apart. I was ready for the plot of Mass Effect 3 to be stupid in places, but I wasn't ready for it to trash my favorite characters. I think the only character I really liked that didn't have their story ruined was Mordin. But this isn't the Mass Effect thread, and I've said enough words about that game for two lifetimes. DA:I probably won't have that problem. Granted it could still suck in other ways but at least it won't make me hate DA:O, which is always going to work fine as a standalone. Honestly the thing I'm worried about most is the whole demon and fade interaction. This has the potential to be incredibly interesting since a surreal dream world merging with reality gives Bioware room to nearly anything. We could get some utterly bizarre and unique set pieces. Or it could be like the fade in the other games and a boring brown land of floating islands. Seeing what they do with this is probably going to make or break the game for me.
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Mar 30, 2014 07:37
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Fojar38 posted:Star Wars: The Old Republic was interesting in that the story was extremely strong in my opinion, particularly for an MMO, but the gameplay was weak and never really strayed from "Fetch quests, kill quests, gather quests" basic MMO formula. It's gotten better in that regard since launch but a large number of people voted with their wallets over a lack of end-game stuff to do at launch. This is in part because Bioware expected people to take their time while leveling and enjoy the story, but since these are MMO players most of them took the quickest and easiest route to level-cap by just exploiting PvP leveling speed or in some cases even using exploits to get to cap. So a bunch of people had like 4 level capped characters 2 days after launch and lamented the lack of endgame content compared to other games like WoW when Bioware expected people to level slower and go through multiple class storylines before they delivered their scheduled end-game content additions in a couple of months after launch. By the time the planned end-game content was patched in the hardcore MMO crowd had all quit. I don't think you can blame the players for this. Bioware created an MMO that utilized none of the genre's strengths or appealing qualities. An MMO needs to exploit that there are thousands of simultaneous players to generate a unique experience. For example, consider Planetside hosting combined arms battles between hundreds of players or EVE fostering an entirely player-driven economy. Instead, Bioware blew their 200 million on celebrity voice actors for the cutscenes. No one would have begrudged Bioware for making KotOR 3. They could even have kept on-line multi-player co-op. The players should not be the ones responsible for paying the bill when Bioware's mediocrity bites it in the rear end.
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Mar 30, 2014 08:40
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Microcline posted:I don't think you can blame the players for this. Bioware created an MMO that utilized none of the genre's strengths or appealing qualities. An MMO needs to exploit that there are thousands of simultaneous players to generate a unique experience. For example, consider Planetside hosting combined arms battles between hundreds of players or EVE fostering an entirely player-driven economy. Instead, Bioware blew their 200 million on celebrity voice actors for the cutscenes. I don't know where the idea comes from that that much of the game's budget went towards voice actors because most of the game's voices are done by career video game voice actors, not celebrities. The majority of the budget went towards the fact that they were building a new game from scratch including its own engine as well as creating net infrastructure, etc. Gamewise what made TOR unique was the quality of its story and its storytelling, and that's kept me playing for far longer than I would have had it not been there, since if you take that away it's yet another WoW clone. Personally I think that it's still what's driving most of the subscription numbers. As it happens though that's not what most MMO players want, and the way that you make WoW  is by catering to nerd OCD, not by actually creating a compelling RPG experience.It's still on Bioware for not understanding the nature of MMO's but I still roll my eyes when I remember all the people who bought The Old Republic and promptly ignored what unique features it did have in favor of treating it like WoW in space.
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Mar 30, 2014 08:51
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