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glomkettle posted:I have never liked the way people suggest Warwick to players learning how to jungle. He can't gank pre-6, his clear is middling, and he doesn't teach any good jungle habits at all. And now that spirit stone works the way it does, his sustain isn't even that special anymore. Warwick can be a fun champion to play, and he can work in the jungle, but I would absolutely never recommend him as someone to learn the role on. I can recommend Nunu instead, if you prefer.
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Apr 8, 2014 02:11
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Lightning Knight posted:For anybody who plays dive-y top laners but doesn't like how you end up dying a lot doing it, play Aatrox and build GA as your second or third item. It's glorious. Locket is only for junglers, really; it's slot inefficient as heck, and people with lane farm want to get stuff that have powerful passives and will synergize with their other items ASAP. Hydra is usually a good choice for Aatrox, because he pushes pretty slowly without it and it turns him into a decent splitter when combined with his sustain, wall jumping, and good dueling. Zephyr (~GET THIS ITEM~) gives him every stat he wants if you weren't forced to go Mercs. Last Whisper is a fifth or sixth slot powerspike you should really consider if you aren't dying immediately but find your damage isn't disruptive enough. Too many tops overlook LW when they're winning strongly and end up paying for it when the game drags on.
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Apr 8, 2014 02:16
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FractalSandwich posted:I can recommend Nunu instead, if you prefer. Nunu's kind of not-so-great in the current meta, but as far as learning good jungling habits, he's not a bad choice. Sure, his inbuilt sustain is kind of unnecessary once he gets spirit stone, but he still has a lot of utility, including a strong slow that lets him gank pretty well at all stages of the game. So yes, I would prefer.
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Apr 8, 2014 02:27
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stanislaus posted:Try Lucian (free this upcoming week), he's extremely fun and good right now. I think he's one of the easiest ADCs to do well with - he's safe with an excellent escape, has good dueling/burst damage, straightforward skills, good splitting, etc. Sivir is good and simple, but is a bit more difficult to carry games with in low elo. Her main strengths are ridiculous wave clear and engage/disengage, and if your team can't take advantage of that she is kind of mediocre. Cait also works, but again can't carry nearly as well as Lucian/Draven/Jinx until late game. Is it just me, or does Lucian fire off his double autoattack follow-up faster if you constantly click on your target?
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Apr 8, 2014 02:39
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quote:Manamune. It wins LCS games! When I play top lane at a Challenger level I'll build Manamune on Aatrox.  I'm not really sure it is either, but it's quite the novelty. I skip it until later if I'm behind, generally, but if I'm ahead being able to dive balls deep into the back line and not give one gently caress is priceless. quote:Locket is only for junglers, really; it's slot inefficient as heck, and people with lane farm want to get stuff that have powerful passives and will synergize with their other items ASAP. Hydra is usually a good choice for Aatrox, because he pushes pretty slowly without it and it turns him into a decent splitter when combined with his sustain, wall jumping, and good dueling. Zephyr (~GET THIS ITEM~) gives him every stat he wants if you weren't forced to go Mercs. Last Whisper is a fifth or sixth slot powerspike you should really consider if you aren't dying immediately but find your damage isn't disruptive enough. Too many tops overlook LW when they're winning strongly and end up paying for it when the game drags on. So I should be going more damage oriented on Aatrox? What would an ideal final build for him look like then? Should I be getting Hydra over BOTRK or both?
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Apr 8, 2014 02:47
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I actually had more trouble with Lucian than any other ADC I have played, and it was a combination of reasons. The primary reason is that in order to function properly you need to be aware of your passive, and that extra thing to keep track of down there was just too much for me. If I were better at positioning maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but I am not and it did. The other reason is that he's a caster style ADC, and I have basically only played AAers and that sort of threw me off. He's cool but it might be hard to make use of his passive if you are also just learning to ADC. I think that sometimes ADC is the hardest role to play under level 30, because having a bad support can be a huge pain in the rear end. Maybe it's just that I need to learn to CS better but having a support try and CS and gently caress up my timing is atrocious, and no they did not have a Relic Shield. It was a full AP support Nidalee who never used a trap or cast heal, and no that is not an exaggeration. Of course she didn't even use the trinket ward either.
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Apr 8, 2014 02:52
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Have you never played a adc that wants to aa after they use an ability to trade well? Because it's literally that easy, the second shot happens automatically.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:30
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NTT posted:Have you never played a adc that wants to aa after they use an ability to trade well? Because it's literally that easy, the second shot happens automatically. Yeah I never really thought of it that way, I guess I was just making it too complicated in my head.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:33
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As someone who mostly plays top lane and jungle, Lucian is literally the only ADC I've found that I actually enjoy playing. I've tried Caitlyn too, but I haven't really clicked with her so far.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:35
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Caitlyn players are terrible people that hate fun and just pick something boring to win. It's the equivalent of picking Yorick top in S2/S3/possibly still now. Or picking Soraka support in season 1.
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Apr 8, 2014 03:52
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glomkettle posted:Nunu's kind of not-so-great in the current meta, Bronze 3/4 and mainly play top/mid. When I do jungle I do it on Nunu. But I know don't have impact past snowballing (heh) one or two lanes. I set up a lane to succeed and just kinda wander to soak up tower shots or catch someone out of position. What jungler should I add as a scrubby second? I'm feeling Nocturnal or Xin are in a good place this patch? Both would benefit from my attspd/move speed rune page. Anyone got words about these two and what I should kinda do with both?
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Apr 8, 2014 04:04
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Hellioning posted:The easiest ADCs are probably Caitlyn and Sivir. Cait's long range means it's hard to truly lose lane, even if you can't fight you can still CS. Same with Sivir; though her auto range is low, her ability to clear waves and her Q means that she can still do decently from behind. Thanks for this-- I've been playing Sivir against bots and am having a blast learning with her. Thanks to others for jungle advice-- looks like Amumu will be my first jungler.
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Apr 8, 2014 04:05
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KirbyKhan posted:Bronze 3/4 and mainly play top/mid. When I do jungle I do it on Nunu. But I know don't have impact past snowballing (heh) one or two lanes. I set up a lane to succeed and just kinda wander to soak up tower shots or catch someone out of position. AS reds/armor yellows/MR blues/MS quints is kind of a catch all jungling page that will work for almost every jungler you can imagine. I don't really know how Nunu plays specifically so I can't give a recommendation based on him specifically, but if you're looking for an AP tank bruiser with reasonably good CC you could try Elise, and if you're looking for a gently caress you I'm living in your jungler type you could try Udyr or Lee Sin.
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Apr 8, 2014 04:07
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KirbyKhan posted:Bronze 3/4 and mainly play top/mid. When I do jungle I do it on Nunu. But I know don't have impact past snowballing (heh) one or two lanes. I set up a lane to succeed and just kinda wander to soak up tower shots or catch someone out of position. Xin is pretty good and also pretty easy to play mechanically. I hope they don't nerf him and Feral Flare at the same time like they've done in the past to other champions, because I really enjoyed playing him even before Feral Flare. You could pick up Xin and Amumu for less than Nocturne's IP cost and have two pretty different options. Xin has really good early ganks and is a pretty good early duelist, while Amumu is susceptible to invades but has good ganks and incredible teamfighting power. e: Phreak is streaming right now and he's a really informative streamer, even though he's only Diamond 5, owing to the fact that he spends his entire work week talking about League of Legends/learning how to be better at talking about League of Legends. http://www.twitch.tv/phreakstream Previous Jesus fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 04:38
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KirbyKhan posted:Bronze 3/4 and mainly play top/mid. When I do jungle I do it on Nunu. But I know don't have impact past snowballing (heh) one or two lanes. I set up a lane to succeed and just kinda wander to soak up tower shots or catch someone out of position. Like Lightning Knight said, aspd/mspd is a very versatile jungle page. Personally the only jungler I really run it on regularly is Amumu (the main two junglers I've been playing much lately are Amumu and Evelynn), but it's effective on just about anyone (except probably fiddlesticks - he's the only jungler I can think of that doesn't benefit from autoattacking in the jungle). E: Yeah Xin's a pretty simple dude who scales great with aspd and mspd, him and Amumu would be solid pickups to practice different types of jungling.
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Apr 8, 2014 05:02
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Previous Jesus posted:As someone who mostly plays top lane and jungle, Lucian is literally the only ADC I've found that I actually enjoy playing. I've tried Caitlyn too, but I haven't really clicked with her so far. I'd urge you to give Draven a shot. He's got a nice easily refreshed steroid and has a great passive that rewards you going ham and snagging those kills, and his E can let you chase people down, flush people out of brushes, or slow someone coming hot on your tail. Main issue that he can be very positioning dependent with his axe-juggles. I'm still getting used to him, but unless you're winding up for a teamfight juggling just one saves you mana and it's not quite as much of a positioning nightmare.
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Apr 8, 2014 06:39
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Lightning Knight posted:So I should be going more damage oriented on Aatrox? What would an ideal final build for him look like then? Should I be getting Hydra over BOTRK or both? Aatrox definitely isn't a tank. You want to draw some fire, but you don't want to be jumping into five people and eating CC because it will make you useless. Randuin's Omen and Spirit Visage are extremely efficient items for the job and in most cases will be all you need to survive with proper judgment. Usually it's a choice between Hydra and BotRK before working on your defense, since it's a pretty huge commitment into damage and BotRK has a really bad build path. Once you have boots and those three items you figure out if you want to go hard damage (some combination of Zephyr, BotRK, and Last Whisper depending on what you need) or going moderate with one of them and a Guardian Angel. A typical finished build in a completely even game will look like Tabi, Hydra, Randuin's, Spirit Visage, Zephyr, GA.
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Apr 8, 2014 06:42
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Lightning Knight posted:AS reds/armor yellows/MR blues/MS quints is kind of a catch all jungling page that will work for almost every jungler you can imagine. I don't really know how Nunu plays specifically so I can't give a recommendation based on him specifically, but if you're looking for an AP tank bruiser with reasonably good CC you could try Elise, and if you're looking for a gently caress you I'm living in your jungler type you could try Udyr or Lee Sin. In my lowly Silver opinion, Elise isn't a great choice because she's mechanically challenging to play (at least for me) and her win rate is in the dumpster. Wukong is my favorite jungler right now, but I don't know about all of this Feral Flare business. Haven't done ranked jungling since the patch.
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Apr 8, 2014 06:53
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What sort of items are popular as supports? I've mostly been going sightstone, orb of ascension, locket, banshee's veil, randuin's, sunfire cape and such on Leona and Thresh.
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Apr 8, 2014 07:07
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Artificer posted:What sort of items are popular as supports? I've mostly been going sightstone, orb of ascension, locket, banshee's veil, randuin's, sunfire cape and such on Leona and Thresh. Mikael's is a decently fun option, as it allows you to heal + cleanse your ADC and pull them out of the fire. It builds out of chalice, so it works better on the more mana-hungry supports, but it's a nice item to have.
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Apr 8, 2014 07:37
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saiyr posted:In my lowly Silver opinion, Elise isn't a great choice because she's mechanically challenging to play (at least for me) and her win rate is in the dumpster. Wukong is my favorite jungler right now, but I don't know about all of this Feral Flare business. Haven't done ranked jungling since the patch. Elise is a lot like Lee Sin right now. She's a decent choice for most of the pro teams, and not really that good for anyone in silver/bronze. My advice would be Amumu and Xin Zhao. Evelynn and Wukong are also solid picks. Artificer posted:What sort of items are popular as supports? I've mostly been going sightstone, orb of ascension, locket, banshee's veil, randuin's, sunfire cape and such on Leona and Thresh. For tankier supports who get in the middle of every fight, those are mostly good choices. I pretty much buy locket/randuin's (depending on the enemy team's AP/AD composition) after my talisman and sightstone, because randuins is just a loving good item when it comes to stopping your adc dying for those few precious extra seconds while the enemy tries to dive them. Also, Face of the Mountain is a solid buy right now simply because 375 health is huge when you're trying to lock down enemy carries. I personally prefer it to talisman of ascension on Leona. I pretty much go (in order of completed items) sightstone, talisman of ascension/face of the mountain/frost queens claim, mr+tenacity boots, locket/randuins, randuins/locket (unless they're running a full AP/AD comp). It's a rare game where I actually need to worry about a sixth item. If you're running a less tanky support (Soraka, Nami, Sona, Lulu, Janna, Morgana) I really love Mikael's Crucible. Being able to cleanse a locked down carry is huge in a teamfight, and being quick on the draw with the item has turned several disasters into decent disengages, or even fights into slaughters. Generally speaking though, you want to grab the ideal gold item for your champ (spellthiefs for poke champs like Morgana or Sona, relic shield for balls-deep supports like Leona and Taric, and ancient coin for everyone else), then build sightstone, then build either a full tank item or a Mikael's (Mikael's is great for poke champs and healers), after which you run full tank. Keep in mind you don't need to worry about getting your damage onto the right people in a sustained manner (like basically everyone else) so giving yourself as many actives as possible allows you to have way more impact on the fight than you would've otherwise had.
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Apr 8, 2014 07:50
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occipitallobe posted:
What about Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage?
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Apr 8, 2014 16:49
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Artificer posted:What about Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage? Frozen Heart seems like a really decent situational pickup if you're a support that wants to be in the middle of the fight and the enemy team has a lot of auto attack damage. The 20% CDR on a decently tanky item is really nice too, since some of the recommended builds there didn't brind a lot of CDR with them. Spirit Visage, on the other hand, seems like it would only be good in extremely niche scenarios. Maybe you could build it in a scenario where the other team is heavily reliant on magic damage and you also need that 10% CDR, but otherwise you'd probably want to build something tankier (Banshee's Veil would be the obvious alternative if you don't need CDR) since the self healing passive probably shouldn't be seeing that much use on most supports.
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Apr 8, 2014 18:18
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Ormi posted:Aatrox definitely isn't a tank. You want to draw some fire, but you don't want to be jumping into five people and eating CC because it will make you useless. Randuin's Omen and Spirit Visage are extremely efficient items for the job and in most cases will be all you need to survive with proper judgment. Usually it's a choice between Hydra and BotRK before working on your defense, since it's a pretty huge commitment into damage and BotRK has a really bad build path. Once you have boots and those three items you figure out if you want to go hard damage (some combination of Zephyr, BotRK, and Last Whisper depending on what you need) or going moderate with one of them and a Guardian Angel. I see. Tabi/BOTRK/Randiuns/SV/Zephyr/GA is what I've been running in my past few games and it's been doing well. loving ranked though, every game I end up second to or last pick I get stuck bot lane and we feed horribly and lose. Why do you hate me, random number generator? 
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Apr 8, 2014 18:22
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Artificer posted:What about Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage? Spirit Visage is designed for champions who want to build Bork or have lifesteal inherent in their kit. It is a poor, poor choice for supports.
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Apr 8, 2014 19:24
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Crazy Larry posted:Spirit Visage, on the other hand, seems like it would only be good in extremely niche scenarios. Maybe you could build it in a scenario where the other team is heavily reliant on magic damage and you also need that 10% CDR, but otherwise you'd probably want to build something tankier (Banshee's Veil would be the obvious alternative if you don't need CDR) since the self healing passive probably shouldn't be seeing that much use on most supports. Definitely agree here. Spirit Visage can work fairly decently on certain supports (Sometimes I grab it on Nami when I've got Rylai's, especially in a kite and fight team comp) but there aren't a lot of heals that are going to both keep you in the fight and help your major damage dealers stay alive. Really the only tanky supports I can think of that might get sufficient use out of it are Taric or maybe Alistar if he goes bot. Generally Banshee's Veil is the go-to MR item on most supports because the spellshield is amazing against pretty much every form of poke, and it provides a good amount of bonus HP on top of that.
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Apr 9, 2014 00:40
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Artificer posted:What about Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage? I built Frozen Heart once as Taric against a triple-ADC comp. Frozen Heart is good, but Randiuns is almost always better. On any champion who wants the mana from frozen heart, chalice of harmony is 100% a better choice. However, that 500 health is great as is the randuins active. Frozen Heart could situationally be nice if you're perpetually diving their carries and they can't kill your carries at all ever, but in that case you're already super ahead and you might as well buy a deathcap. Frozen Heart is a great item for Ryze and maybe Malphite (also possibly Cho'gath because of the huge amount of free health he gets), but it's not a very good support item. Spirit Visage on the other hand is genuinely bad. In the event you're playing against a triple-AP comp, you're probably going to skip your randuins in favor of a locket. It should be your second completed major item, maybe even outdoing your finished boots. All that additional MR will be huge come the teamfight phase. But even so, you should still favor Mikael's Crucible (the active is incredibly valuable) and Banshee's Veil before you even consider getting a Visage. Visage is an item that synergizes with self-healing effects, and anyone who wants to be huge and tanky (as a support) in the middle of a fight doesn't have any of those. Veil will allow you to soak up a whole cc skill which can be very useful in a teamfight. Conversely if you're a Nami or Sona, you want to rush that Mikaels against this hypothetical triple-AP comp, not a visage. Remember that if you survive long enough to drop all your cc, chances are getting focused down is a net positive for your team. I've won games in which I died in every single teamfight just by being huge and intimidating enough that the enemy focused me and got cleaned up as I died. Basically as a support you get 2 items at most, really (because you're going to want a sightstone, boots, and a gold item, and very few games see a 6-item support build), so every time you buy an item apart from your initial 3 you really need to ask 'is this better than randuins/locket/mikaels?'. Except in extraordinarily niche cases, you're never going to get a better anti-AP item (as a support) than locket, or a better anti-AD item than randuins, or a better item for keeping your pokes and heals going than Mikaels. All 3 of these items offer 2 things - great effective stats, and an active that allows you to protect your carries from whatever is coming their way. Any item that only offers effective stats is way behind from the get-go. Emery posted:Definitely agree here. Spirit Visage can work fairly decently on certain supports (Sometimes I grab it on Nami when I've got Rylai's, especially in a kite and fight team comp) but there aren't a lot of heals that are going to both keep you in the fight and help your major damage dealers stay alive. Really the only tanky supports I can think of that might get sufficient use out of it are Taric or maybe Alistar if he goes bot. Building Rylai's on Nami seems like a huge waste. Two of her abilities already have slows, and it wears off after 1.5 seconds which is the exact length of your Q. You'd be better off building athenes, or even a deathcap if you already had athenes.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:27
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occipitallobe posted:Building Rylai's on Nami seems like a huge waste. Two of her abilities already have slows, and it wears off after 1.5 seconds which is the exact length of your Q. You'd be better off building athenes, or even a deathcap if you already had athenes. Rylai's actually adds a lot of utility, in my experience. The slow is applied after the bubble ends, so it becomes a 3 second CC ability that most champions aren't able to force through, and it's been particularly useful in ensuring a clean disengage especially when the other support is there because they'll often burn their Miakels on the bubble. Then I hit with my bouncing heal and slow the damage dealer again, or on an auto with tidecaller's blessing. Plus, because of the way slows stack, my ulti is hell to try to engage through for an enemy team, and it can turn a bad engage into a good one rather quickly. The 500 health makes staying alive a cinch, and 80 AP keeps my heal and buff more relevant. Once I get full build, or even just a couple of tank items, having Rylai's turns me from "difficult to kill if not focused" to "difficult to kill even if focused". Athene's isn't a bad pickup either, but I haven't tried Rabadons, mostly because I'm supporting and have a ton of items that don't give AP to really make use of the passive. Still, it could certainly be an option since those two together put Nami over the 200 AP threshold for her heal's diminishing returns. Anything past 200 and she's dealing out more damage and better heals every bounce.
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Apr 9, 2014 08:25
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Looking at the runes in the OP, what does MR stand for? Magic Resist or Mana Regen? I come from Dota so this is all new to me. 
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Apr 9, 2014 19:54
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bonewitch posted:Looking at the runes in the OP, what does MR stand for? Magic Resist or Mana Regen? MR is usually used for Magic Resist and Mp/5 for mana regen (since in game health and mana regen rates are shown per 5 seconds rather than per second). Usually.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:58
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cybrancyborg posted:MR is usually used for Magic Resist and Mp/5 for mana regen (since in game health and mana regen rates are shown per 5 seconds rather than per second). Usually. Got it. I haven't played in probably 5 years and all I remember is vaguely playing Vayne 24/7 and not understanding the concept of last-hitting.
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Apr 9, 2014 20:02
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Am I playing Rumble wrong or is his lategame scaling pretty weak? I tried him for a while after the new skin was announced (he was the first top laner I really liked) and maybe it's just because I moved to Mundo and Jax afterwards but the last few times I've played Rumble I've done great in laning phase but can't really transition that to later success.
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Apr 9, 2014 21:58
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When I played Dota, I loved initiators and supports, especially agile ones like Puck and Clockwerk. Is there any champions similar in league? Edit: I played a lot of solo offlane too, which I guess translates to solo top in league? I wouldn't mind recommendations for that as well.
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Apr 9, 2014 22:20
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bonewitch posted:When I played Dota, I loved initiators and supports, especially agile ones like Puck and Clockwerk. Is there any champions similar in league? Amumu's bandage toss is like a sad baby version of Clockwerk ult, but landing a good one is substantially more dangerous since it puts you in range for one of the better teamfight ultimates in the game. Nautilus is vaguely similar (he drags himself and a target closer to one another, so more like CK in that regard, but he can also hook into terrain and drag himself around) and is also a solid initiator. Pretty much anybody labeled a "tank" has some form of hard engage. Offlaning doesn't really exist in the LoL meta, solo top is more like a slogging 1v1 since top is on the other side of the map from the more important early game objective, the dragon. Usually it's filled with bruisers who can build defensive items and still do really respectable or outright scary damage when it's time for them to leave the farm. Try Garen, he's cheap and pretty much gives you the full experience. Riven, Olaf, and Shen are free this week too. E: Oh yeah, Lissandra can be played like a Puck knockoff. She basically has Illusory Orb and can target herself with her ultimate to make herself invulnerable while slowing people around her for a couple of seconds. Ormi fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 22:41
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Neat, thanks. I'll give those a try.
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Apr 9, 2014 22:56
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Emery posted:Rylai's actually adds a lot of utility, in my experience. The slow is applied after the bubble ends, so it becomes a 3 second CC ability that most champions aren't able to force through, and it's been particularly useful in ensuring a clean disengage especially when the other support is there because they'll often burn their Miakels on the bubble. Then I hit with my bouncing heal and slow the damage dealer again, or on an auto with tidecaller's blessing. Plus, because of the way slows stack, my ulti is hell to try to engage through for an enemy team, and it can turn a bad engage into a good one rather quickly. I went and tried this out, and the slow applies as the bubble applies. Rylai's procs when spell damage is dealt, not when a cc effect ends. In fact, if you're playing against a champion with tenacity, the slow ends before the bubble ends. Also, Mikaels isn't usable on knockups or displacements (or suppression effects). Likewise, slows stack sequentially but at 65% reduced strength for each consequent slow. And your R is an AoE ability. So after it applies its 70% max level slow, (assume it reaches 3 seconds for a decent-length ult) your Rylais will apply another 5.25% (which is applied multiplicatively), changing the slow from 70% to 72.925%. That 3000 gold applies almost three percent of an additional slow on your ult. Not even that, really, because it's also procced during the knockup during which it does nothing. The ulti is always hell to engage through, getting a Rylai's doesn't make any difference on that mark. It barely procs off the R, it doesn't proc off the Q or E - the only ability that procs Rylai's worth a drat on Nami is your W, and it procs a 15% slow, not the full 35%. Even if you hit two enemies with it, it's still worse than proccing Rylai's off a standard single-target ability. In addition, it doesn't give you that giant mana pool/mana regen Nami really needs to relentlessly keep the enemy team poked and your team healed, which is probably half of her utility. I kinda get the feeling that you play Nami much better than most people play supports at your MMR - I'm in the same boat with her and Sona, and consequently you can build most things and come off okay. I used to play Athenes/Deathcap Sona and carried myself from S5 to S1 (preseason) often building that because I could reliably dominate game no matter what I bought. It doesn't make it an optimal build, though. The stats Rylais gives are kinda nice - AP and health, but you can get all of those stats more efficiently with better actives on different items, and the active is very close to worthless on her. Rylai's is brilliant on people like Vladimir (or, say, Soraka as I'm pretty sure Hai got it in the C9 vs TSM match for 1st place), who don't have a whole bunch of cc to begin with. It's a poor choice when coupled with abilities that already deliver cc.
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Apr 10, 2014 03:12
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So as it turns out, you're absolutely right. What was throwing me off was the visual effect from the Rylai's slow happening a little after the bubble came down as well as my usual tactic of Q>W+E the carry dropping multiple slows on the same target. I've never been a numbers guy so I hadn't gone out of my way to check the specifics of the mechanics past what I thought I was seeing in game. My usual build path for Nami has Rylai's as a fifth or sixth item. I start ancient coin and mana pots, and I usually get chalice on my first back, then a sightstone, upgrading my coin as I can with the Talisman as my third item, Mobi boots if they don't have a lot of CC or chasing power in their team comp or boots of swiftness if they do for the extra speed and tenacity. Then most times I build into a Banshee's Veil, and if the game goes on long enough, I get the Rylai's. I'm thinking something like Zhonya's might be more useful now that I've seen the math. More AP and a useful active plus armor, and with an Athene's that would put me over the threshold for the diminishing returns on my heals while giving me a good deal of mana regen when combined with the Talisman, and max CDR. I can shift up to the Ruby Sightstone for some extra HP as well. If you've got any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
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Apr 10, 2014 08:19
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Items like the mikaels are helpful.
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Apr 10, 2014 08:48
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If you're going to build a selfish item as an AP support, it probably should be Haunting Guise/Liandri's Torment. You're never going to have a lot of AP, so you might as well make every ability that you hit count. Guise gives you some magic penetration and health, Liandri's means you always do some damage because of the lifeburn. The damage is doubled when the opponent is movement impaired, which is guaranteed to trigger if you hit them with Nami's Q or R (and E if Nami used it on herself). Zhonya's works better if you have a reason to get into the middle of the enemy team like with the ultimates of Morgana and Fiddlesticks (also the stasis doesn't stop their ults which is a pretty big deal). 1600 gold for a Needlessly Large Rod is also no easy purchase for a support.
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Apr 10, 2014 08:54
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 15:56 |
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Emery posted:So as it turns out, you're absolutely right. What was throwing me off was the visual effect from the Rylai's slow happening a little after the bubble came down as well as my usual tactic of Q>W+E the carry dropping multiple slows on the same target. I've never been a numbers guy so I hadn't gone out of my way to check the specifics of the mechanics past what I thought I was seeing in game. I think as supports we just have to get used to the idea of dying in teamfights. Obsessed with it, maybe. Putting yourself in a position where the best possible option for the enemy team (in a 5v5) is to kill you means everyone else on your team is getting their damage off after you've already blown all your cc. Having your first four items as coin-chalice-sightstone-boots isn't particularly bad for Nami, but it does mean those last two items have to be more carefully chosen. Putting yourself over the threshold for heals really isn't that important. It might matter in a clutch situation, but it's better to be able to heal a lot rather than do one big heal. If you manage to get all 3 procs of your W off, the difference between 150 AP and 250 AP is only 200 damage/healing overall. The more AP you build on Nami the more efficient and effective her heal gets, but you don't have the budget needed to go full AP anyway - to get to that point where it's really worth prioritizing AP over every other stat. If you're really worried about that extra AP, it's probably better to switch out your Talisman of Ascension for a FQC (which is an extra 50 AP) rather than switching out a full tank item for an off-tank AP item. When you get right down to it, I don't think there are better items than Locket or Randuins as that fourth item for supports. I build them on Sona, Nami, Leona - whoever, really. Additionally, Randuins grants HP and armor and synergizes absurdly well with your chalice - you now have mr, HP, and armor, an additional slow which lets you drop a bubble, a slow onto your adc's attacks, your wave if you're defending (for peel) and then drop a 3-second 35% slow onto half of their team. Your heal isn't going to make much difference at all in a teamfight - the real utility comes if they (or you) are running a poke comp and need to stay healthy for the inevitable giant engage. If you really want AP though after your Grail, poo poo, just get a rabadons. Liandry's is a great item on champions with good base damages like Elise - mpen works well for people who don't synergize well with AP. Nami's thing is that she synergizes amazingly well with AP, but just not well enough to warrant running full AP (unless you go mid Nami, I guess). But if you end up with a bunch of early kills and need to carry the game, rabadons can lighten the load. Also apparently a pro or two built spooky ghosts on her in soloqueue, though I have no idea how well that'd work.
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Apr 10, 2014 09:32
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